What House Rules does the playground use?

[Ortesk]

Since ive been in a few groups, and have seen some really good to really bad house rules, i have to ask you fine ladies and gents, what house rules do you ll use in your campaigns?

Personally, i dont like all the No buttons in 3.5 I change mind blank (And there similiar class features and feats) to a flat +15 on mind affects and divinations. Its a big enough number your still basically immune, but if someone is really trying they can get you


I outright ban AMF, if you get a wizard in amf its game over. One spell destroys entire groups of classes

I also changed FoM to +20 bonus, really high but not a simple Lolz button

I ban all AEG books, they have no balance in them at all

So what are your bans, nerfs, or attempts to improve classes/feats/races Ect and so forth?

[thereaper]

If you haven't fixed polymorph effects or Diplomacy, you haven't actually done anything.

Personally, I think the only houserule needed is "Don't be a jerk". It's a nice umbrella rule. No CoDzillas, because that's a jerk move. No bypassing the dungeon with scry-and-die, because that's a jerk move. No Forcecage on things that don't have a reasonable way to escape, because that's a jerk move.

Follow that rule, and every other possible houserule becomes unnecessary.

[BrokenChord]

If you haven't fixed polymorph effects or Diplomacy, you haven't actually done anything.

Personally, I think the only houserule needed is "Don't be a jerk". It's a nice umbrella rule. No CoDzillas, because that's a jerk move. No bypassing the dungeon with scry-and-die, because that's a jerk move. No Forcecage on things that don't have a reasonable way to escape, because that's a jerk move.

Follow that rule, and every other possible houserule becomes unnecessary.

Bar Polymorph, it shouldn't be considered a jerk move to use a spell for its intended purpose. Besides, Forcecage actually has a cost that isn't totally negligible to it.

Overall, though, I agree with you about not being a jerk. It's a somewhat difficult rule to feel fair about enforcing when a sociopathic min-maxer skilled munchkin is at the table, though.

[Ortesk]

If you haven't fixed polymorph effects or Diplomacy, you haven't actually done anything.

Personally, I think the only houserule needed is "Don't be a jerk". It's a nice umbrella rule. No CoDzillas, because that's a jerk move. No bypassing the dungeon with scry-and-die, because that's a jerk move. No Forcecage on things that don't have a reasonable way to escape, because that's a jerk move.

Follow that rule, and every other possible houserule becomes unnecessary.

I dont bother with those two things because my players dont optimize. When they do a diplomacy, i make them roleplay it. An orc barbarian can be effective in my campaigns. As far as polymorph goes, my wizards dont know the spell :P

As far as the jerk thing, i'll have to mention that to my players (When im a player im the jerk. I build really lackluster guys until DM starts giving us to much, then i go off like a nuke. Its caused some issues)

[Vamphyr]

These carry over from my original DM, but I'm so used to it I incorporate them into mine:

You can make a full move action and a full attack in the same round

Everyone has the feat QuickDraw free. You're a trained adventurer, I figure the first thing you learn is how to quickly pull out your weapon while something is trying to kill you.

[Phelix-Mu]

Bar Polymorph, it shouldn't be considered a jerk move to use a spell for its intended purpose. Besides, Forcecage actually has a cost that isn't totally negligible to it.

Overall, though, I agree with you about not being a jerk. It's a somewhat difficult rule to feel fair about enforcing when a sociopathic min-maxer skilled munchkin is at the table, though.

I like this last point.

To my two cents on the issue, it seems widespread on these boards to flat ignore favored classes/multiclass penalties. I suspect the same isn't as true of tables generally, but make of that what you will.

@BrokenChord: Your sig intrigues me. I find that optimization and my attachment to it has not always helped me enjoy the game more. But, I also find that, as time goes by, I am somewhat maturing out of it. Optimization is a cool mental exercise, but the core of the game is about a nice mix of interesting role play and challenging encounters. Not about roflcurbstomping everything in the Monster Manual, which is totally possible. In short, I find that I self-moderate my optimization when I actually play, enjoying lower-op games with nice role play content just as much as high-op stuff with lots of cheese.

[Waker]

Mind Blank, Freedom Of Movement and similar spells grant a bonus equal to your caster level. IE, FoM grants a 10th level caster a +10 on Escape Artist and Grapple checks.
Tumble checks have a DC determined by the BAB of the creatures you are opposing.
No Concentration skill. Instead you make a check using your BAB to cast defensively or avoid losing a spell when taking damage.
Teleport and similar spells are keyed to specific locations.
Alignments are dumb. The only creatures with Alignments are those with a subtype, like Devils with the [Evil] subtype.

There are other houserules, but I'm a bit tired. Really need to get around to finishing my houserule list.

[demigodus]

If you haven't fixed polymorph effects or Diplomacy, you haven't actually done anything.

Personally, I think the only houserule needed is "Don't be a jerk". It's a nice umbrella rule. No CoDzillas, because that's a jerk move. No bypassing the dungeon with scry-and-die, because that's a jerk move. No Forcecage on things that don't have a reasonable way to escape, because that's a jerk move.

Follow that rule, and every other possible houserule becomes unnecessary.

The problem with this, is that it comes down to 'only do what you think is fair'. It relies on player intuition of what is fair and reasonable. People absolutely do not have the same intuitive idea of what is fair, and what isn't.

For example, I consider CoDzillas to be perfectly fine so long as people don't get too extreme with it. A cleric that is as good in melee as a straight Crusader/Warblade is a Clericzilla. That is also perfectly fine as I see it.

Forcecage only has too categories. It is either less expensive to escape than it is to cast, or it is inescapable. By the level you get it, most things should be able to get out of it. Exploiting an enemy's weak point isn't being a jerk. That is how casters should be; more effective than mundanes when exploiting a weakness, less effective when not doing so.

These two are my opinions. Obviously you have a different opinion. That means that if the two of us were to play in a game together, more information would need to be given, else we might end up making two wildly incompatible characters.

My personally preferred version, is to have the players be given a power level guideline, and for them to aim for roughly that power level. If you are over shadowing everyone, scale things back; possibly talk to the DM about being able to retrain things for less powerful options. If you are so utterly weak that everyone is overshadowing you, optimize yourself, even if that requires retraining.

[Snowbluff]

... I don't think I use any consistently...

I kind of wish I had to deal with Diplomancer, or overpowered use of Polymorph in the games I DM. I usually just tell my players "Don't go crazy, or bad things will happen," but most of the players I have don't minmax or powerplay at all. :smalltongue:

I would say ditching enhancement bonuses is an actually good one. No more "Gauntlets of Ogre Str" or "+3 longswords." Instead, players get 1/2 their level to their stats and AC. I think Nat armor bonuses and deflection bonuses are ditched as well. I learned of this through Pairo'dicelost. It's a pretty good rule, but I don't know the entirety of it. Pretty much, it gives players more $$$ to spend on interesting, non-numeric items. Items then needed plusses to be enhanced further do not need the initial magic property to be given properties. So you could have a Fire Longsword that isn't +1 first.

Magic DR is also removed, I think.

RE: Polymorph. Nerfing polymorph makes the spell boring. That's really all there is to say on the matter.

[Flickerdart]

No Forcecage on things that don't have a reasonable way to escape, because that's a jerk move.
If a DM sends a creature incapable of escaping forcecage against a party high level enough to use it, it's not really a level-appropriate encounter and will get what's coming to it. Players shouldn't have to pull punches just because the DM's monsters are poorly thought out.

[demigodus]

For polymorph, rather than nerf is, I would actually suggest boosting it.

The problem with the spell, as I understand it, is that it lets the wizard (or his familiar) out-fight the fighter. However, polymorph could be cast on others, say, the fighter. Problem here is that the fighter would lose the magical bonuses of his sword/armor/equipment.

So houserule so that magical weapons confer their bonuses to natural weapons while under polymorph, and the magical properties of any armor worn are kept.

[Vamphyr]

Oh yeah, I always ignore favored classes/multiclass penalties as well.

[ChaoticDitz]

For polymorph, rather than nerf is, I would actually suggest boosting it.

The problem with the spell, as I understand it, is that it lets the wizard (or his familiar) out-fight the fighter. However, polymorph could be cast on others, say, the fighter. Problem here is that the fighter would lose the magical bonuses of his sword/armor/equipment.

So houserule so that magical weapons confer their bonuses to natural weapons while under polymorph, and the magical properties of any armor worn are kept.

This requires a very selfless wizard, though. Or just a higher-level one who would promptly Polymorph the Fighter, the Rogue, AND itself, thus tripling the issue overall.

[thereaper]

The problem with this, is that it comes down to 'only do what you think is fair'. It relies on player intuition of what is fair and reasonable. People absolutely do not have the same intuitive idea of what is fair, and what isn't.

For example, I consider CoDzillas to be perfectly fine so long as people don't get too extreme with it. A cleric that is as good in melee as a straight Crusader/Warblade is a Clericzilla. That is also perfectly fine as I see it.

Forcecage only has too categories. It is either less expensive to escape than it is to cast, or it is inescapable. By the level you get it, most things should be able to get out of it. Exploiting an enemy's weak point isn't being a jerk. That is how casters should be; more effective than mundanes when exploiting a weakness, less effective when not doing so.

These two are my opinions. Obviously you have a different opinion. That means that if the two of us were to play in a game together, more information would need to be given, else we might end up making two wildly incompatible characters.

My personally preferred version, is to have the players be given a power level guideline, and for them to aim for roughly that power level. If you are over shadowing everyone, scale things back; possibly talk to the DM about being able to retrain things for less powerful options. If you are so utterly weak that everyone is overshadowing you, optimize yourself, even if that requires retraining.

It comes down to what the DM and group think is fair. That is what determines what constitutes jerk behavior.

I consider Forcecage to be a jerk move because it doesn't allow a save, for example. Some people don't. But my opinion of it only matters if its my group (and even then, I am only one voice). Only the group can determine what rises to the level of jerk behavior.

[Snowbluff]

Oh yeah, I always ignore favored classes/multiclass penalties as well.

People always ask me if I do this. I say yes, but 90% of the time their builds don't invoke them, anyway. :smalltongue:

[SciChronic]

Personally i always remove the multiclassing penalty because all it does is punish creativity in builds.

i also normally consolidate all TWF feats into a single feat that grants off-hand iteratives when you have high enough BAB

[Epsilon Rose]

I tend to have a ton of homebrew in my game rulesets. If you want to see what I'm currently playing with you can look Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=208491).

Beyond that, the generic stuff is:

No multi-classing penalties.
In gestalt, all class feature-type pre-reqs must come from the same side. This is designed to prevent people from getting into a PrC too early or advancing features at a crazy rate.
Homebrew is encouraged.
Recently, I've been using a Wealth System instead of GP. This lets me, potentially, targe equipment and also means I don't need to provide random loot and my Players don't need to regularly commit warcrimes.

[demigodus]

This requires a very selfless wizard, though. Or just a higher-level one who would promptly Polymorph the Fighter, the Rogue, AND itself, thus tripling the issue overall.

Really? When I play casters I prefer to drop the melee drops on the party melee characters. Not because I feel particularly selfless, but because I'm attached to my characters. You have to remember, whomever is receiving this buff, is the one that ends up in melee. Yes, I don't get to feel quite as awesome. But I also have a lower risk of death.

[nyjastul69]

...You can make a full move action and a full attack in the same round



Out of curiosity, how does your DM define a 'full move action'?. I'm interested in how this house rule functions.

[ChaoticDitz]

Really? When I play casters I prefer to drop the melee drops on the party melee characters. Not because I feel particularly selfless, but because I'm attached to my characters. You have to remember, whomever is receiving this buff, is the one that ends up in melee. Yes, I don't get to feel quite as awesome. But I also have a lower risk of death.

Even if you aren't dropping yourself into the melee, there are several forms a Wizard could take that improve their own survivability without losing spellcasting.

[SciChronic]

oh, i forgot i also typically just ban all tier 1 and 2 classes because, well, they're the tier 1 and 2 classes and they break games

[TroubleBrewing]

My first group's DM had the rule "You use it, I use it" when it came to anything borked. We tended to stay away from Polymorph and other typical "broken" shenanigans.

[Keneth]

Didn't we just have this thread a little while ago?

My current Pathfinder games feature a couple hundred house rules at least. I wouldn't know where to start listing them, actually. They're mostly balance rulings that lean heavily in favor of mundanes, like being able to move prior to making a full attack, easier combat maneuvers, consolidated combat feats, overhauled weapon system, etc. I also have a few nice things for casters though, like extra options for Spell Focus besides +1 DC, spontaneous domain casting for clerics, bonus damage for all spells, and other goodies that bring more flavor in exchange for all the power nerfs.

Overall, I think all the changes were positive with regards to balance and dynamics. And I'm nowhere near done. :smallbiggrin:

[HolyCouncilMagi]

I almost exclusively play in story-based games where optimization for anything other than pure concept isn't encountered. So, there's been no need for bans to powerful things.

In the cases where "You use it, I use it" isn't enough, such as when a party has one optimizer who tries to break the multiverse while the rest of the characters actually play a roleplaying game, I'd say the best "houserule" is simply to deny players an abusable magic market and, without banning anything in advance, look at what they do each level and tell them "if you're optimizing for _____, I want you to change your sheet, because I won't be allowing the key component/spell/feat of _____." The only big no-no for a DM is for a player to already have something and THEN telling them "no, I'm not okay with this anymore, you can't have nice things."

[Vamphyr]

Out of curiosity, how does your DM define a 'full move action'?. I'm interested in how this house rule functions.

Sorry if my terminology isn't very clear, it's been a little while since I've played. Basically if your character has a move speed of 30' you can move that full distance and then make a full attack. If I remember correctly you could still only make 1 attack after a charge unless you had an ability stating otherwise (pounce).

[Ortesk]

oh, i forgot i also typically just ban all tier 1 and 2 classes because, well, they're the tier 1 and 2 classes and they break games

Im the powerbuilder in my group by a long shot. I wont ban tiers or certain feats/classes/prestiges ect. Its only broken when the player outshines the group. I dont let that happen. As a DM, i can curb stomp any character brought to my table, and if i need to i will. As a player, i play low op so others can compete and if a problem player comes along, the DM's pull me aside and say i want him beat. I ask how bad

[Telonius]

Here's the list of House Rules I'm using for my current campaign. It's worked out fairly well so far. The key rule:

- Don’t try to break the game. I reserve the right to say no to any race/feat/class/PrC/equipment/whatever combination. If you’re not sure, ask; I’m willing to work with you if it’s not too ridiculous.

Character Creation
- One free 18. Roll 4d6 five times, rerolling any one, once. (If it comes up as another one, it was meant to be). Drop lowest die result. Arrange as desired. (Mulligan if less than a collective +7 bonus).

Race
- Half-Elves get one extra skill point per level.
- Half-Orcs lose the CHA penalty and gain a +4 racial bonus to Intimidate.

Class
- Remove favored classes. Multiclass is free.
- There can be Lawful Barbarians, Lawful Bards, and Chaotic Monks.
- All Clerics are Cloistered Clerics.
- Clerics gain proficiency with their deity's favored weapon. (War domain still gives them the Weapon Focus feat).
- Fighters get 4+Int skill points per level.
- At level 5, Fighters gain the "Adaptable Focus" class ability. Once a day Fighters can spend 1 hour practicing with a weapon to change the kind of weapon for which they have Focus or Specialization. This designation lasts until the Fighter spends an hour to change the weapon focus again.
- Paladins take the alignment of their deity (if any) and must act as a prime example of the ideals of their deity, philosophy, or cause.
- Monks get full BAB, proficiency with Gauntlets (which are also a Monk weapon), and can spend time/gold/xp enchanting their own body as though it were a weapon/armor.
- Sorcerers get free Eschew Materials at first, and their HD improves to d6.
- Rogues get an additional Rogue Ability at level 20.
- Rangers and Druids trade animal companions.
- Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Geography) are now on the Druid class skill list.
- Druids use the Shapeshift variant (except for the animal companion, as described above).

Skills
- Open Lock and Disable Device are rolled into one skill, Disable Device (based on Dexterity).
- Balance and Tumble are now one skill, Acrobatics (based on Dexterity).
- Listen and Spot are now one skill, Perception (based on Wisdom).
- Hide and Move Silently are now one skill, Stealth (based on Dexterity).

Feats
- Remove the +1 BAB requirement for the Weapon Finesse feat
- Weapon Focus grants a bonus equal to Fighter Level/5 (minimum 1). Greater Weapon Focus doubles the bonus.
- Weapon Specialization grants a bonus equal to 2*(Fighter Level/5). Greater Weapon Specialization doubles the bonus.
- Metamagic feats do not take more time for spontaneous casters
- Natural Spell is stricken from the game.
- The Two-Weapon Fighting feat now scales to include extra attacks with each iterative Attack. Improved Two-Weapon fighting lessens the penalty by 1 for each attack. Greater Two-Weapon fighting lessens the penalty by an additional 1.
- The Rapid Shot feat now scales to include extra attacks with each iterative Attack. Manyshot lessens the penalty by 1 for each attack.
- Toughness grants you HP equal to your current HD.
- Delete the phrase “and use the charge action” from the Ride-By Attack feat. Ride-By Attack will function as the mounted equivalent of Spring Attack.

Spells
- The following spells are stricken from the game: Shapechange, Polymorph Any Object, Wind Wall, Contingency, Knock.
- Divine Power is no longer a standard Cleric spell. It is still on the War domain list.

Miscellaneous
- Fractional BAB for multiclass characters.
- Starting characters may choose race or templates totalling +2 LA. Buyoff is available.
- SR does not have to be turned off in order to receive a beneficial spell.
- All adventurers are issued the following items free, not counted against WBL:
1 Handy Haversack, 1 MW armor or MW weapon, 10 trail rations (kept in the haversack), 1 spellbook (if a wizard), 1 holy symbol (if a cleric or paladin)
- When making a mounted charge, the mount is not required to make an attack (though it may do so if beneficial).
- Dust of Sneezing and Choking does not exist.
- There are no Vorpal weapons in my game. If you ever encounter a Vorpal weapon, you can be assured that you will soon be facing a Jabberwocky, which will be an epic-level foe.
- Don’t try to break the game. I reserve the right to say no to any race/feat/class/PrC/equipment/whatever combination. If you’re not sure, ask; I’m willing to work with you if it’s not too ridiculous.
- Add Pun-Pun as an over-deity of Cheese, Exploits, and Metagaming. Pun-Pun is aware that he is a god in a fictional gaming world. Anyone that slips something past me in an attempt to break the game will bring down his wrath. He is jealous of his ultimate power, and will personally act to prevent any player/character from approaching it.

[Ortesk]

Here's the list of House Rules I'm using for my current campaign. It's worked out fairly well so far. The key rule:

- Don’t try to break the game. I reserve the right to say no to any race/feat/class/PrC/equipment/whatever combination. If you’re not sure, ask; I’m willing to work with you if it’s not too ridiculous.

Character Creation
- One free 18. Roll 4d6 five times, rerolling any one, once. (If it comes up as another one, it was meant to be). Drop lowest die result. Arrange as desired. (Mulligan if less than a collective +7 bonus).

Race
- Half-Elves get one extra skill point per level.
- Half-Orcs lose the CHA penalty and gain a +4 racial bonus to Intimidate.

Class
- Remove favored classes. Multiclass is free.
- There can be Lawful Barbarians, Lawful Bards, and Chaotic Monks.
- All Clerics are Cloistered Clerics.
- Clerics gain proficiency with their deity's favored weapon. (War domain still gives them the Weapon Focus feat).
- Fighters get 4+Int skill points per level.
- At level 5, Fighters gain the "Adaptable Focus" class ability. Once a day Fighters can spend 1 hour practicing with a weapon to change the kind of weapon for which they have Focus or Specialization. This designation lasts until the Fighter spends an hour to change the weapon focus again.
- Paladins take the alignment of their deity (if any) and must act as a prime example of the ideals of their deity, philosophy, or cause.
- Monks get full BAB, proficiency with Gauntlets (which are also a Monk weapon), and can spend time/gold/xp enchanting their own body as though it were a weapon/armor.
- Sorcerers get free Eschew Materials at first, and their HD improves to d6.
- Rogues get an additional Rogue Ability at level 20.
- Rangers and Druids trade animal companions.
- Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Geography) are now on the Druid class skill list.
- Druids use the Shapeshift variant (except for the animal companion, as described above).

Skills
- Open Lock and Disable Device are rolled into one skill, Disable Device (based on Dexterity).
- Balance and Tumble are now one skill, Acrobatics (based on Dexterity).
- Listen and Spot are now one skill, Perception (based on Wisdom).
- Hide and Move Silently are now one skill, Stealth (based on Dexterity).

Feats
- Remove the +1 BAB requirement for the Weapon Finesse feat
- Weapon Focus grants a bonus equal to Fighter Level/5 (minimum 1). Greater Weapon Focus doubles the bonus.
- Weapon Specialization grants a bonus equal to 2*(Fighter Level/5). Greater Weapon Specialization doubles the bonus.
- Metamagic feats do not take more time for spontaneous casters
- Natural Spell is stricken from the game.
- The Two-Weapon Fighting feat now scales to include extra attacks with each iterative Attack. Improved Two-Weapon fighting lessens the penalty by 1 for each attack. Greater Two-Weapon fighting lessens the penalty by an additional 1.
- The Rapid Shot feat now scales to include extra attacks with each iterative Attack. Manyshot lessens the penalty by 1 for each attack.
- Toughness grants you HP equal to your current HD.
- Delete the phrase “and use the charge action” from the Ride-By Attack feat. Ride-By Attack will function as the mounted equivalent of Spring Attack.

Spells
- The following spells are stricken from the game: Shapechange, Polymorph Any Object, Wind Wall, Contingency, Knock.
- Divine Power is no longer a standard Cleric spell. It is still on the War domain list.

Miscellaneous
- Fractional BAB for multiclass characters.
- Starting characters may choose race or templates totalling +2 LA. Buyoff is available.
- SR does not have to be turned off in order to receive a beneficial spell.
- All adventurers are issued the following items free, not counted against WBL:
1 Handy Haversack, 1 MW armor or MW weapon, 10 trail rations (kept in the haversack), 1 spellbook (if a wizard), 1 holy symbol (if a cleric or paladin)
- When making a mounted charge, the mount is not required to make an attack (though it may do so if beneficial).
- Dust of Sneezing and Choking does not exist.
- There are no Vorpal weapons in my game. If you ever encounter a Vorpal weapon, you can be assured that you will soon be facing a Jabberwocky, which will be an epic-level foe.
- Don’t try to break the game. I reserve the right to say no to any race/feat/class/PrC/equipment/whatever combination. If you’re not sure, ask; I’m willing to work with you if it’s not too ridiculous.
- Add Pun-Pun as an over-deity of Cheese, Exploits, and Metagaming. Pun-Pun is aware that he is a god in a fictional gaming world. Anyone that slips something past me in an attempt to break the game will bring down his wrath. He is jealous of his ultimate power, and will personally act to prevent any player/character from approaching it.


Mind if i steal your skill rules? I think those will help the more skill starved classes a good deal

[Telonius]

Go for it! Though, oddly enough, the skillmonkeys have really been the ones who are benefiting. The Rogue and the Ranger have really been taking most advantage, but the others wouldn't have been putting ranks in anyway.

[Ortesk]

Go for it! Though, oddly enough, the skillmonkeys have really been the ones who are benefiting. The Rogue and the Ranger have really been taking most advantage, but the others wouldn't have been putting ranks in anyway.

I give each class 5 free skills to choose in addition to there usual, a fighter who cant spot/listen is kind of silly to me, if hes supposed to be a trained soldier and all

[Norin]

In out current game the DM added Improved weapon familiarity as racial bonus feat for all races. Just to add the racial weapons as a proficiency for all races.

We also use full HP after resting for 8h. Even if we have 3 chars that can heal in the group.

[Jlerpy]

This is all totally theoretical, as I haven't run a D&D game in a long, long time, but this is all stuff I'd probably do if I were:


Players roll all the dice.
Primary spellcasting classes are Prestige Classes.
Almost everyone is Neutral, a non-Neutral alignment is a big deal.
Every gets maximum HP, plus their Con.
If you have HP below your Con, you are Fatigued.
Healing comes in Hit Dice(+Con bonus), instead of d8s.
Armour is Damage Reduction (half of AC bonus, round down) and damage conversion to nonlethal (half of AC bonus, round up), instead of reduced chance to hit.
No HP below 0 (When you hit 0 HP, you're Disabled. If you take any more damage, or perform a Standard or Full action, you become Dying. A Dying character makes a DC 20 Fort Save to stabilise each round or increments their Death Count by 1. If your Death Count reaches your Con, you die).
Modifiers as dice (eg. the usual +2 circumstance bonus is +1d4 instead).
No permanent attribute bonuses from items.
No minimum enhancement bonus prerequisite for item special abilities (it's quite possible to have a weapon that's a Bane to Dragons, but otherwise normal, for instance).
Finesse weapons can be used with Dex instead of Str as basic, Weapon Finesse is not a Feat.

[Darrin]

[snip]


Most of my house rules mirror what Telonius has, although his seem a lot more organized than mine.

Here's one our group has used for all our campaigns... we rotate DMs and thus have different house rules, but all the DMs use this one:

Your Initiative bonus = Ref save.

(It seems so obvious to me, I'm puzzled why it never wound up in D&D4E.)

[Jlerpy]

Your Initiative bonus = Ref save.

(It seems so obvious to me, I'm puzzled why it never wound up in D&D4E.)

I like it. Do Paladins get to add their Charisma bonus?

[Jgosse]

my self and most of my DM friends use the same ones.
Hit die re-role anything below half.
you are dead at negative con not -10
No multi-classing penalties.
All fighter only feats are open to any one with a full base attack progression.
we tend to use arrays or our own point buy, both boil down to no player has an advantage over another because of bad roles.

Personally I like to set a book list. I use all completes and races, both PHBs, and UA material If I approve it. I normally am willing to listen if some one wants something from another source for flavor.

[Blackjackg]

I wonder if I'm the only person left in the playground that actually kind of likes favored classes and multiclass penalties. Sure, they can hamper some builds, but I like the challenge of building a character that is flavorful and consistent around a few restrictions. And if the worst case scenario is that you advance a little slower than the rest of the party, that's not really "tear up your sheet and go home" terrible...


Personally, i dont like all the No buttons in 3.5 I change mind blank (And there similiar class features and feats) to a flat +15 on mind affects and divinations. Its a big enough number your still basically immune, but if someone is really trying they can get you

I outright ban AMF, if you get a wizard in amf its game over. One spell destroys entire groups of classes
I'm also not sure about this one. Personally, I like some big magic "NOPE"s, specifically those that affect other magic. Mind Blank and Antimagic Field make it harder for the Tier 1 and 2 casters to break the game, and give the melee beasts something to do at high levels. In fact, I think we need more magic that blocks other magic-- flavor it in your world as "Magic is good at a lot of things, but the thing it's best at is blocking other magic."

I don't have many houserules that have been playtested and proven workable. I'm in favor of replacing some of the speedbump feat requirements with classes of feats (for instance, a PrC that requires Toughness might instead require "One of the following feats: Toughness, Improved Toughness, or Draconic Toughness").

Plus the Giant's diplomacy fix, Mearls' hexblade fix, and giving the ranger a full-advancement animal companion.

[Krobar]

Here are a few:

Metamagic feats that increase a spell's power output in some way are off the table.

Craft Contingent Spell only renders contingent one spell LEVEL per caster level, not one whole spell per caster level.

Bards and sorcerers can learn additional spells beyond what is reflected in the spells known table, equal to their daily bonus spells (levels and numbers). So if you have 2 bonus 1st level spells per day due to a high charisma, you can also learn two additional first level spells.

Weapon specialization incorporates weapon focus into it (fighters only).

Two Weapon Fighting only requires one feat, and it adds an additional attack whenever you get an additional iterative attack, with the off-hand. When using TWF, all attacks have a -2 penalty unless you also take ambidexterity.

Only deities can cast epic spells.

Disjunction is an epic spell.



and my favorite (though admittedly it's not really a "house rule"):

Don't use something in-game if you don't want ME to eventually use it against you. I find this eliminates a lot of shenanigans.

[Alabenson]

Here are the houserules I employ in any of my games:

Banned:
Books:
Weapons of Legacy
Prestige Classes:
Planar Shepard
ACFs:
Cloistered Cleric, Spontaneous Divination, Convert Spell to Power
Spells:
Ice Assassin, Shun the Dark Chaos, Embrace the Dark Chaos
Feats:
Precocious Apprentice

Subject to DM Approval:
Dragon Magazine
Evil Characters
Homebrew
3rd party sources
Unearthed Arcana
Leadership

General Houserules:
Stats are rolled as 5d6, less the lowest 2. (Note that I am very lenient with regards to rerolling stats if the dice decide they hate you)
When rolling Hp, if the die roll is less than half of the average, the player may reroll and take the higher of the two results.
Ability increases now work the following way: At 4th level and every eight levels after that (12th, 20th, etc.), the player increases any two abilities by 1 each. At eighth level and every eight levels after that (16th, etc), the player increases all of their abilities by 1 each.
Fractional BAB and BSB
No Multiclass XP penalties
Any Class with dual-stat casting are changed to single stat casting, using the stat which determined their max spell-level as the primary casting stat
The following mechanics are not used: Action Points, Taint
Attempting to gain wishes from evil outsiders is strongly not recommended.
If a character initiates an infinite loop, they are spontaneously removed from the multiverse. No save. For the purposes of this rule, the Pun Pun Manipulate Form trick is considered an infinite loop.
Players are asked to be able to provide the names of any books used in building their characters, and if possible the page numbers of specific items, if requested.
If a spellcaster leaves spell slots open during spell preparation, he many not fill them until the next time he prepares all of his spells.

Rules Changes / Rulings
Races:
Nonstandard age categories notwithstanding, Dragonwrought Kobolds are not considered True Dragons, nor may they qualify for Epic Feats via advanced age categories.

Base Classes:
Archivist:
For spells that appear on multiple class spell lists at different levels, the level the archivist must learn it is determined via the following priority:
Cleric->Druid-> Adept->Paladin-Ranger->Other base classes -> Prestige classes
For example, if a spell appears on the Paladin list as a level 1 spell and on the Cleric list as a level 2 spell, the archivist may only learn it as a level 2 spell.
DFA:
The DFA’s breath weapon is considered to have a recharge time of 0 rounds. Therefore, they do qualify for metabreath feats.
Monk:
A monk is considered proficient with their unarmed strikes.
A monk may enchant their unarmed strikes in the same manner that an OA Samurai may enchant their daisho.
Swordsage:
The Swordsage receives (6+Int)x4 skill points at first level.
A Swordsage receives its Wisdom to AC if they are wearing light or no armor.

Prestige Classes:
The Cancer Mage’s disease host ability negates all mechanical effects of diseases, including beneficial ones.
If a PC enters Unseen Seer without having Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, or Skirmish, than that PC may treat the Damage Bonus class feature as regular Sneak Attack damage.

Spells:
Shivering Touch allows a Fortitude save to negate.
Constructs created via Simulacrum do not retain the spellcasting, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities of the original creature.
Magic items created by Wish may not exceed 25,000 gp in value.
The duration of Polymorph Any Object will be determined by the DM on a case-by-case basis, using the listed table as a guideline.
When the PCs conjure NPC allies with spellcasting via spells such as Gate, the spells prepared/known of those NPC allies shall be determined by the DM, i.e. just because a Solar can have Gate prepared does not mean they actually do have Gate prepared.
You may not make multiple attacks per round with Produce Flame

Maneuvers:
Stone Dragon maneuvers no longer require the initiator to be on solid ground
Stone Dragon stances no longer restrict the movement of the initiator

Feats:
Enhancement bonuses to abilities, such as from bull’s strength or gloves of dexterity, cannot be used to qualify for a feat’s prerequisites. However, once the feat is taken, they may be used to determine whether a character can continue to use said feat.
Versatile Spellcaster does not allow you to cast spells of a higher level than you could cast normally.
Blistering Spell, Flash Frost Spell, and Fell Drain may only be applied to spells that target or have a tangible effect on creatures.
The prerequisites for Weapon Finesse have been changed from BAB +1 to Dex 13

Items:
The armor weight category reduction imparted by mithral applies to proficiency.
The price of the Candle of Invocation has been increased to 25,300 gp.
Metamagic reducers may not be applied to items.
The final cost of magical traps, including beneficial magical traps, will be determined by the DM.

[Darrin]

I like it. Do Paladins get to add their Charisma bonus?

Yep. Anything that improves your general Ref save improves your Init. Improved Initiative gives you a +4, but only on Initiative checks.

The other big change was the Acrobatic/Agile/etc. feats allowed a reroll if you rolled a "1", and Skill Focus allowed a reroll 1/day. Also, Skill Focus, Alertness, and Combat Casting were combined into the same feat -> Skill Focus, and were considered equivalent for the purposes of prerequisites.

We also used Action Points, and you could spent 1 AP to gain a feat for one round. In practice, this meant anytime you absolutely *HAD* to make a skill check, they'd choose Skill Focus for a +3 and an automatic reroll if it failed. (I'm kinda rethinking that one... it made important skill checks somewhat anticlimactic.)

[qwertyu63]

I have my "Mundanes may have nice things rules":

-Casting defensively is banned.
-Making a full attack is a standard action.
-Characters get a training bonus to their AC equal to the number of attacks in their full attack beyond the first. (this only counts attacks from your BAB)

[NichG]

We use... more house rules than I can reasonably pack into a forum post. My last campaign involved a complete replacement of all PrCs and all spells > 3rd level with completely new content, for example, as well as giving every core base class and all PHB, PHB2, and Complete X feats special 'upgrades' that could be purchased directly with XP. The rulebook for that campaign ended up being about 200 pages, so I might as well call that a 'setting book' rather than a set of house rules.

Putting that kind of ridiculousness aside, here are a few of my favorite 'ideas' to weave into house rules as the campaign requires:

- No multiple X stat to Y: If you have multiple stats that all give a bonus to a particular thing, you use the largest bonus instead of the sum (where 'a thing' would be for example AC, not 'dodge bonus to AC').

- Save or Die/Save or Lose spells have their DCs halved and do not suffer from auto-fail on a nat 1. However, if the target fails the spell's original DC or rolls a nat 1 but still makes the lower DC, they get one or two status conditions:
-- Fugue: For dominate/etc style save or lose. All damage dealt by this character is halved for the duration.
-- Touched by Death: For 'physical' kills like Finger of Death. All damage taken by this character is doubled for the duration.

- Remove all spells/parts of spells that give a numerical bonus to a skill or skill check, or allow auto-success on a roll (like Surge of Fortune granting a nat 20 or Limited Wish allowing an auto-hit).

- Dex mod to damage on ranged weapons

- Attacks per round from any combination of sources is limited to 10 total.

I'm not including things like specific spell ban lists because again, it'd be exhaustive and it didn't matter in the last campaign where I basically just rewrote the entire spell list. If you aren't going to do that, of course it'd make sense to limit/fix certain problematic spells.

[Brookshw]

Varies a bit campaign to campaign though I do have a "core" set that tend to carry over. Also I've realized some of my house rules I hadn't even recognized as such until it was pointed out I was actually carrying things over from 2e.

Core: raise dead etc do not result in level loss. You can fumble anything. Fumbled attacks end the turn (I'm aware this isn't to everyone's taste). Blasphemy/holy word's "die" property is a death effect and negated by deathward. Playing a gnome is a death wish. Positive energy plane hurts undead. There are probably a few others, the groups played together for over a decade so we don't always think to spell everything out.

Current campaign: HP rolls under 50% are autoboosted to above (i.e. roll a d8, get a 2 = auto 5). MDJ turns off items for one week per caster level as opposed to destroy. No to shrink item cones to get around being caught in AMF.

Pending future house rules: line of effect, I find it ridiculous that throwing up a rice paper wall in front of you should stop dimension lock. Plan on someway integrating hardness/item HP but haven't worked out how.

[Ruethgar]

I house rule that monks are proficient in unarmed strikes.
That unarmed and arcane swordsages get wisdom to AC while unarmored(non-stacking like the ninja).
That arcane swordsage spells must be approved by the DM but generally anything in the listed schools or thematic(a desert wind sage picking up fire spells for example) with low/no material or XP cost. Wisdom is the primary stat.
That the limited ACF druids may take the domain druid feature(limited defined as being Shapeshift, Storm, or Focused Animal Druids).
That the FAQ is right until DM interpretation of a rule is addressed.
Pretty sure it was optional but I use it, critical miss.
Most listed optional rules for classes. Love variety.

[Keneth]

Playing a gnome is a death wish.

That's a house rule? I thought it was just common sense. :smallconfused:

[Subaru Kujo]

Playing a gnome is a death wish.

In my current table, it's the hobbit. Midgets get no love.

Also, I "fixed" Sanctuary a little bit, since one of my characters at my table (a Favored Soul), wanted to be far more merciful than most PCs, so he'd randomly slap Sanctuary on people the group was fighting.

How it'd work is that if you cast it on an enemy, they'd have to succeed on a Will Save to attack (one also done on application). If they succeeded, they'd be able to attack and the spell ended. Otherwise they'd have to try again next turn.

On the Cavalier prestige class: Mounted Weapon Bonus (Sword): I assumed this ability was meant to be applied to longswords (as that's what would normally be used by a knight, which is what the entire prestige class is based on), but I made it work with all sword class weapons, provided the Cavalier in question is proficient in the use of the blade.

On the Master Thrower: The Throw Anything Feat makes it possible to throw anything and perform the tricks the class has to offer.

Diplomacy is far more roleplaying oriented in mine as well. You have to put forth an intriguing offer for, say, a guard to stand aside. Hell, if it's intriguing enough, the person might agree to help out without a roll. You know, common sense instead of straight die rolls.

[Phelix-Mu]

Here's a couple that come to mind:

- Dodge and Mobility are one feat, called Dodge.

- Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Far Shot are all one feat.

- No Craft Construct. Crafting constructs works by having Craft Magic Arms & Armour and Craft Wondrous Item.

- The +2/+2 skill improvement feats (Alertness and Co.) grant the skills mentioned as class skills for all classes. Same for Skill Focus.

- Races with bonuses to certain skills treat those skills as class skills for all classes.

I like the one about Improved Racial Familiarity for everyone. The minor discrepancies in the racial weapon entries in the PHB are irritating in the extreme (and fairly pointless). Having to blow feats on Exotic Weapon Prof and similar feat taxes seems increasingly objectionable the longer I play, especially given how easy it is for a caster to get Spell of Awesome mk 9485 and use it with no penalty.

[Adverb]

After a fumbled attack, roll to "confirm". If you miss a second time, you provoke an AoO from anyone adjacent to you.

Are there any good house rules for solving linear fighter quadratic wizard, other than "more encounters per day whether you want them or not"?

[Phelix-Mu]

After a fumbled attack, roll to "confirm". If you miss a second time, you provoke an AoO from anyone adjacent to you.

Are there any good house rules for solving linear fighter quadratic wizard, other than "more encounters per day whether you want them or not"?

I'd wager about 80% of threads touch on this last major issue of game balance at some point. The only simple rule that jumps to mind is to set a tier restriction on the campaign, and that's more of a campaign guideline than a houserule.

tr/dl, the best way to avoid linear/quadratic issue is to not have both types operating in the same campaign. On the other hand, it doesn't bother some people as much as the discussion sometimes suggests.

[jedipotter]

Are there any good house rules for solving linear fighter quadratic wizard, other than "more encounters per day whether you want them or not"?

Sure, just add things like:

*To teleport to a spot you must be physically in the area and carefully study it and experience it with all your senses, for one hour. It must be a static spot, where nothing is moving or might be moved. Anything other then the slightest movement, such as putting a spoon in a bowl invalidates the location.

*Polymorph has a chance, 5% per HD of the form you take, of overwhelming your identity and personality and having you act like the creature for the duration of the spell. (I like this one, and so do some of my players. They love the chance to role-play a monster and even do a bit of Jeckle and Hyde stuff. Some druids love this too...getting 'lost' in the animal)

*You need a bit of the material(roughly a hand full) you wish to create with a conjuration creation spell as a material component.

[LordBlades]

No CoDzillas, because that's a jerk move.

Jsut for my own curiosity, but how is CoDzilla a jerk move?

[NichG]

Jsut for my own curiosity, but how is CoDzilla a jerk move?

'Cause a CoDzilla outshines the party's fighter/barbarian/warblade/etc in their own schtick, while also having awesome caster powers on top of that. Makes sense to me. It'd also be a jerk move for a wizard to use Knock all the time when someone's playing a rogue who put full ranks into Open Locks.

Being a jerk is about how what you choose to do with the game makes other people at the table feel. Whether or not they're holding unrealistic expectations of what 'works' in D&D doesn't matter - rubbing their face in how badly they built a character is still being a jerk even if they built their character very badly indeed.

At a high-op Tier 1 table, it wouldn't be a jerk move.

[LordBlades]

'Cause a CoDzilla outshines the party's fighter/barbarian/warblade/etc in their own schtick, while also having awesome caster powers on top of that. Makes sense to me. It'd also be a jerk move for a wizard to use Knock all the time when someone's playing a rogue who put full ranks into Open Locks.

Being a jerk is about how what you choose to do with the game makes other people at the table feel. Whether or not they're holding unrealistic expectations of what 'works' in D&D doesn't matter - rubbing their face in how badly they built a character is still being a jerk even if they built their character very badly indeed.

At a high-op Tier 1 table, it wouldn't be a jerk move.

Well, the Knock analogy is a bit off IMO. I doubt most wizards would have 'use Knock all the time' as an integral part of their character concept. Indulging the party rogue into an 'I'm useful too' illusion is an inconsequential sacrifice for most wizards(and it's saves you some spell slots too).

On the other hand, CoDzilla (aka melee powerhouse cleric/druid) is every bit as valid a character concept as sword&board fighter, and the player has exactly the same right to expect to be able to play it (looking at it in a vacuum, any agreed upon game power level notwithstanding). Why should the guy bringing a CoDzilla to the table be the jerk, and not the guy bringing the sword&board fighter?

In my book, is a jerk move of equal magnitude to bring a very low powered character and expect the whole party to adjust to your expectation of power level.

[Ortesk]

Well, the Knock analogy is a bit off IMO. I doubt most wizards would have 'use Knock all the time' as an integral part of their character concept. Indulging the party rogue into an 'I'm useful too' illusion is an inconsequential sacrifice for most wizards(and it's saves you some spell slots too).

On the other hand, CoDzilla (aka melee powerhouse cleric/druid) is every bit as valid a character concept as sword&board fighter, and the player has exactly the same right to expect to be able to play it (looking at it in a vacuum, any agreed upon game power level notwithstanding). Why should the guy bringing a CoDzilla to the table be the jerk, and not the guy bringing the sword&board fighter?

In my book, is a jerk move of equal magnitude to bring a very low powered character and expect the whole party to adjust to your expectation of power level.

To me a jerk move is showing off. You can be a uy and not be a jerk. You can play him humble where maybe he says hey im gonna tank the little guys, you all team up on the big guy. Is he still uber strong? Sure. Is the team having fun? If yes, who cares. I've played guys who could rip the game in half but didnt. Usually my most powerful characters are my most humble, with the weakest my most outspoken and show off ish. A jerk move is also not telling the rogue OOC a few quiet tips and advice to help make them better.

[TuggyNE]

*To teleport to a spot you must be physically in the area and carefully study it and experience it with all your senses, for one hour.

I assume you mean have been. Otherwise you would already be there.

[Jlerpy]

I assume you mean have been. Otherwise you would already be there.

Well, that's one way to nerf teleport. :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Healing spells that do xd8+CL do xd4+4+CL. It means the averages come up much more often, which is nice.

[Jlerpy]

Healing spells that do xd8+CL do xd4+4+CL. It means the averages come up much more often, which is nice.

Do you perhaps mean xd4+4x+CL? Or is it intended to be more predictable, but also less powerful?

[Beardbarian]

Oh yeah, I always ignore favored classes/multiclass penalties as well.

How you dare to ignore the most perfect rule in the entire game? Nobody ignores it!

[SciChronic]

Im the powerbuilder in my group by a long shot. I wont ban tiers or certain feats/classes/prestiges ect. Its only broken when the player outshines the group. I dont let that happen. As a DM, i can curb stomp any character brought to my table, and if i need to i will. As a player, i play low op so others can compete and if a problem player comes along, the DM's pull me aside and say i want him beat. I ask how bad

There was a thread to this kind of approach a few months back.

First and foremost you need to talk to your group before hand about limitations, otherwise, when you suddenly "curb stomp" them, to the players it can feel as if you're punishing them for bringing the most out of their character

Second, players can fight back if your "curb stomp" is to just bring out stronger monsters. This also makes every other player at the table feel even more worthless because what can kill the optimized character, will obliterate the unoptimized

[Ortesk]

There was a thread to this kind of approach a few months back.

First and foremost you need to talk to your group before hand about limitations, otherwise, when you suddenly "curb stomp" them, to the players it can feel as if you're punishing them for bringing the most out of their character

Second, players can fight back if your "curb stomp" is to just bring out stronger monsters. This also makes every other player at the table feel even more worthless because what can kill the optimized character, will obliterate the unoptimized

My group by this point knows limits. My limits are fairly easy, i dont care how strong you are just dont make the rest of the group have less fun. If the mass wants to play low op, then by all means play a god wizard but reign him in. At a point either i'll make it clear that you cant beat me in an arms race, so either settle down or i'll ask the person to leave the table. Now if the group wants high op, i can do high op. Its really that simple to me. I've been on both sides of the field, so generally if they just cant be content with low op i steer them towards playing a support build but by all means go full OP, especially if it brings the less optimized up to a higher level and lets them have more fun

[Ravens_cry]

Do you perhaps mean xd4+4x+CL? Or is it intended to be more predictable, but also less powerful?
Yeah, that looks right.
:smallredface:

[Kennisiou]

Hit dice aren't rolled: on odd numbered levels you gain full HD + con modifier. On even levels you get half-HD + con modifier. This kind of makes optimizing odd, since if you're multiclassing you get more HP from taking high HD classes on odd numbered levels and low HD levels on even ones. I know a lot of other groups tend to just go with hit dice are always maxed, but we prefer this rule since it winds up making HP totals a bit lower meaning that things can be a tad more dangerous, but not as dangerous as using only half-HD on all levels but first level.

Also, all classes without spellcasting gain +2 skillpoints a level to make them more useful out of combat, and a few partial casting classes gain the same. There's always someone at the table who wants to roll fighter even though we have people who have a tendency for heavy combat optimization in a few players, and this usually helps them feel a lot less useless.

Edit: also, halberds are reach weapons. Because why are they not reach weapons?

[FullStop]

Hit dice aren't rolled: on odd numbered levels you gain full HD + con modifier. On even levels you get half-HD + con modifier. This kind of makes optimizing odd, since if you're multiclassing you get more HP from taking high HD classes on odd numbered levels and low HD levels on even ones. I know a lot of other groups tend to just go with hit dice are always maxed, but we prefer this rule since it winds up making HP totals a bit lower meaning that things can be a tad more dangerous, but not as dangerous as using only half-HD on all levels but first level.

Also, all classes without spellcasting gain +2 skillpoints a level to make them more useful out of combat, and a few partial casting classes gain the same. There's always someone at the table who wants to roll fighter even though we have people who have a tendency for heavy combat optimization in a few players, and this usually helps them feel a lot less useless.

Edit: also, halberds are reach weapons. Because why are they not reach weapons?

I think because that'd make halberds strictly superior to guisarmes, so arbitrary balance considerations (though I can't remember what their respective crit profiles are, so that might not actually true)?

[jedipotter]

Are there any good house rules for solving linear fighter quadratic wizard, other than "more encounters per day whether you want them or not"?

A couple more:

*No form of metamagic reduction may reduce the spell's level below its original, or in the case of a heightened spell, below its heightened level.

*Summoning:The strain of binding and controlling a summoned creature imposes a cumulative -1 penalty to caster level for each creature currently summoned.

*The fatigued condition imposes a -2 penalty to caster level and a -1 penalty to spell save DCs. The exhausted condition imposes a -6 penalty to caster level, and a -3 penalty to spell save DCs.

[Snowbluff]

Edit: also, halberds are reach weapons. Because why are they not reach weapons?

I'm sick of this "Two-Handed Longsword" bull... :smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

A couple more:

*No form of metamagic reduction may reduce the spell's level below its original, or in the case of a heightened spell, below its heightened level.

*Summoning:The strain of binding and controlling a summoned creature imposes a cumulative -1 penalty to caster level for each creature currently summoned.

*The fatigued condition imposes a -2 penalty to caster level and a -1 penalty to spell save DCs. The exhausted condition imposes a -6 penalty to caster level, and a -3 penalty to spell save DCs.

Those don't really solve the basic problem, although the first one is pretty common among those who deal with reducers, and the other two are ... interesting, at least.

[jedipotter]

Those don't really solve the basic problem, although the first one is pretty common among those who deal with reducers, and the other two are ... interesting, at least.

Well making teleport and shapechanging not so easy, making you have a bit of something to be created, and the caster level penalties go a long way to making spellcasters on level.

Though you do need to fix lots of spells too, like : Rope Trick only lasts 10 min/level and you must hold onto the rope at all times and can't pull the rope up and the 'place' made is a normal extrademisional space. Gate can only call double your hd max and the being called is not controlled by the gate spell.

[Raezeman]

Don't roll extra hit points with new level, but get maximum (that also goes for all my NPCs/monsters)

Teleportation type spells with a distant longer than that of dimension door are extremely rare in my world.

Ranger has an druid's animal companion.

I let the badger animal companion 'evolve' into a dire badger when his druid master reached level 4.

retraining is possible within limits.

[Piggy Knowles]

Here are the house rules from my latest campaign:

Multiclassing
No multiclassing/favored class penalties.

Magical Items and Make Whole
The make whole spell DOES work on magical items, but requires a caster level check versus a DC of 11 + caster level of the item to succeed. Failure means the item itself is still reconstructed, but the magical properties are not restored. This does not work on constructs.

Mindsight
Mind Blank, immunity to telepathy, and immunity to divinations all block mindsight. Mindsight does not work on the undead.

Wild Talent
The Wild Talent feat does not exist. Instead, it is replaced with Hidden Talent.

Astral Construct
There is no limit to the number of astral constructs a character can summon at one time.

Sorcerers
Metamagic Spells
Sorcerers can innately alter the nature of spells. When choosing a spell known, a sorcerer can instead choose a metamagic-adjusted version of a spell. The spell known slot is equal to the adjusted spell level, and metamagic reducers do not apply. The sorcerer does not need to know the non-metamagic’d version of a spell for this, nor does she need to know the metamagic feat in question. This spell is cast normally, and is not considered “adjusted” by metamagic, nor does it require a full-round casting time. Heighten Spell cannot be used in this way.

For example, as a fourth-level sorcerer, I gain a 2nd-level spell known. I can choose Extended Charm Person as my second level spell, even if I do not have the Charm Person spell or the Extend Spell feat. It is considered a second-level spell, and DCs and other effects dependent upon spell level are handled accordingly.

NEW SORCERER-SPELL: Arcane Reformation
Arcane Reformation
Enchantment (Mind-Affecting)
Level: Sorcerer 4
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 10 Minutes
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

When this spell is cast, the caster can choose to spend its most recently gained skill points differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level. The caster can also choose to forget spells known it acquired when advancing to its current level, replacing them with new ones.

The caster can undo decisions of these sorts that were made at lower levels, if the caster agrees to pay the necessary XP before this spell is cast (see below). The caster must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills.

XP Cost
This spell costs 50 XP to cast to reformat choices made when the character reached her current level. For each additional previous level into which the revision reaches, the spell costs an additional 50 XP.

Fighters
The fighter class has experienced some significant re-writes, available here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273600

Creation Spells and Poison
Creation spells CAN be used to create poison or other costly items (as long as they meet the requirements of the spell, such as only plant matter for minor creation, etc.). However, minor creation can only create one dose of poison at a time. Major creation can create up to five doses at a time. True creation has no limitation on quantity beyond the volume limitations present in the spell itself. (This applies to psionic versions and SLAs as well.)

Metamorphic Transfer and Assume Supernatural Ability
These will only work on some abilities - most are probably fine, but be sure to check with me before you use them. (Sorry to leave this one so open-ended - I wanted to leave them in because there ARE non-broken uses. However, using them to, say, nab CL 20 astral projection at ECL 5 would not be allowed. Therefore, let me know what your plans are with them.)

Circle Magic, Anima Mages, Tainted Scholars
The Tainted Scholar and Tainted Sorcerer classes are banned. Circle Magic exists, but is replaced with the version found in the Ghostwalk supplement. (This includes the circle magic granted by Red Wizards, Hathrans, et al.) Anima Mages exist, but Vestige Metamagic can only reduce the spell level by an amount equal to or lower than the vestige you give up access to. For example, an Anima Mage would have to lose access to a 4th-level or higher vestige in order to use Vestige Metamagic on Quicken Spell.

Incantatrix, Spelldancer, etc.
Cooperative Metamagic, Metamagic Effect and similar abilities can be used 1/day at the level you gain access to them. You can an additional use of each every four levels in the relevant prestige class, to a maximum of 3/day.

Nightsticks
Nightsticks exist but do not stack.

Item Familiars
Item Familiars are now legacy items, and follow all the relevant rules and require the relevant rituals and feats to unlock.

Planar Shepherd
No.

[Morphie]

Our groups house rules:
1) Hit die of the classes is 1d4+x: Wizards and Sorcerers - 1d4+1; Rogues and Bards- 1d4 + 2; Clerics, Druids, Monks and Rangers - 1d4 + 4; Fighters and Paladins - 1d4 + 6; Barbarians - 1d4 + 8.
2) Keen stacks with the Improved Critical feat.
3) Oponnents use their regular AC when standing up from prone.
4) No psionics and ToB. Unearthed Arcana is allowed in a case-by-case. BoED and BoVD spells are ok if they're not exalted/evil, the rest is off.

The rule 0 is: Before you try something that you might think it's broken or exploiting some rules in any way, you should think: "Would I allow that if was the DM?"

[Malimar]

Some of the big ones:

Start at level 1 with 1000gp. Enough to buy a healing belt or some masterwork armor or a CLW wand, make the early levels a bit less squishy.
No rolling for HD. You get half your HD + 1 + your con modifier. d12 = 7; d10 = 6; d8 = 5; d6 = 4; d4 = 3
No multiclass XP penalties. Instead, you get a free feat with respect to your racial favored class: Monastic Training, Knight Training, or a homebrew one that lets you take levels in your favored class even if your alignment is wrong.
Bloodline levels are just LA, and can be reduced as such (once you've taken all of them). Once you finish a savage monster class progression, you can reduce the no-HD "levels" like LA. Buying off level adjustment is simplified: you can do it any time you have enough XP, and it costs 5,000 x your current LA.
Epic begins at level 10. At that point, you can use regular feat slots to take epic feats. There are no epic spells.
The Giant's diplomacy fix is in effect
Effects that transform you into a monster (e.g. polymorph) require you to have either seen the monster in-game, or make a Knowledge check at twice the usual difficulty.


I've also lately been considering, but not yet implemented, such rules as

Fighter gets a bonus feat every level, instead of every other level.
Druid and ranger swap animal companion progressions.

[Curmudgeon]

Because the Leap Attack erratum specifies the Power Attack adjustment for both one-handed and two-handed weapon use with Leap Attack in the updated second sentence, strike the third sentence in the Benefit section.
A whip-dagger (Arms and Equipment Guide pages 7-11) can be used with these minor adjustments to 3.0 content as required (see DMG page 4):
The whip-dagger behaves as a whip, except dealing lethal damage.
It deals damage as that of a dagger of the same size.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#exoticWeaponProficiency) (whip) is required for proficiency, as stated; whip proficiency without the feat is insufficient.
No special considerations of armor or natural armor are used.
Reach is always 15', independent of the character's reach. It still doesn't threaten.
Monks are proficient with their unarmed strikes.
Monks may also use the six feats listed in their Bonus Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#bonusFeat) class feature if they select them as Bonus Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#bonusFeat)s, and similarly need not meet prerequisites for the feats offered in the Monk variant Fighting Styles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) (Unearthed Arcana, pages 52-53).
If you like slings: apply the Rapid Reload (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidReload) feat to them, just as you would to a crossbow, for free action reloading. You can also use Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot) with slings, up to a maximum of four bullets per standard action.
If you intentionally Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) down: stack both Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) and Tumble (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) effective reductions in falling distance if you make both DC 15 skill checks, and treat 1d6 of the damage as nonlethal. (You reduce the effective distance fallen further by higher Tumble (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) checks, following the rules in Complete Adventurer page 103 and Oriental Adventures page 58.) But: falling damage hits a maximum of 50d6 (for falling 500') rather than the standard 20d6 of the rules for most creatures. The 20d6 limit still applies if the creature has wings.
Treat great crossbows (Races of Stone pages 153-155) the same as heavy crossbows for feats and other rules that specify heavy crossbows, since
all the crossbow rules use specifics needlessly:
Rapid Reload:
Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy). You can reload a crossbow of that type more quickly than normal.
great crossbows were defined later, after these needlessly specific rules. Great crossbows remain exotic weapons.
Split actual movement around a non-moving move action. Example: move 15' to a door, open it, and then go through the doorway that same round using the rest of your movement.
Make Massive Damage saves only when the damage is 50+ and also exceeds half your remaining hit points.
Range penalties for Spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) and Listen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm) are reduced:

From 101'-300', range penalties add -1 per additional 20'.
From 301'-600', range penalties add -1 per additional 30'.
From 601'-1000', range penalties add -1 per additional 40'.
Beyond 1000', range penalties add -1 per additional 50'.


{TABLE="head"] Distance | Penalty | | Distance | Penalty | | Distance | Penalty | | Distance | Penalty
10' | -1 | | 160' | -13 | | 450' | -25 | | 880' | -37
20' | -2 | | 180' | -14 | | 480' | -26 | | 920' | -38
30' | -3 | | 200' | -15 | | 510' | -27 | | 960' | -49
40' | -4 | | 220' | -16 | | 540' | -28 | | 1000' | -40
50' | -5 | | 240' | -17 | | 570' | -29 | | 1050' | -41
60' | -6 | | 260' | -18 | | 600' | -30 | | 1100' | -42
70' | -7 | | 280' | -19 | | 640' | -31 | | 1150' | -43
80' | -8 | | 300' | -20 | | 680' | -32 | | 1200' | -44
90' | -9 | | 330' | -21 | | 720' | -33 | | 1250' | -45
100' | -10 | | 360' | -22 | | 760' | -34 | | 1300' | -46
120' | -11 | | 390' | -23 | | 800' | -35 | | 1350' | -47
140' | -12 | | 420' | -24 | | 840' | -36 | | 1400' | -48[/TABLE]

This addresses the issue of characters being incapable of perceiving enemies at D&D encounter distances (up to 1440'). -48 is tough to make with up to 23 ranks in Spot or Listen; the -144 of the standard rules is impossible.
The glassteel specified in Races of Faerûn on page 158 is used instead of the "updated" version in Champions of Valor on page 65. The newer version has nearly identical properties to mithral (matching exactly in weight, ASF, MDB, and ACP), so there's hardly any reason for its existence. The older, more expensive version combines the qualities of adamantine and mithral for a unique effect.
No ranged full attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. Going strictly by the letter of the rules full attacks (melee or ranged) never provoke, but I treat this as just sloppy work by the rules authors. Each ranged shot provokes an AoO. (Rules Compendium did address this; see page 16.)
Swordsages don't get x6 skill points at first level; they get x4, like every other class.

[Malimar]

Split actual movement around a non-moving move action. Example: move 15' to a door, open it, and then go through the doorway that same round using the rest of your movement.

I keep meaning to add this one to my own list, but I guess I was waiting for one of these threads to come around again because your phrasing is better than what I could come up with.

[Maginomicon]

Once I realized that house rules can quickly become too numerous to keep track of, I organized my house rules into a hypertext document using Google Drive. Sure the document's over ~150 pages long, but it's text-searchable and internal references to other house rules can contain a link to the relevant section. I try to make comprehensive inclusions of whatever I house-rule so that I don't have to go look it up on some other website or book page.

Most of my effective house rules for my main campaign are a part of the campaign setting itself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304652), although a number of things from the house rules document (which is campaign-agnostic) apply. I've written up and severely modified a bunch of variants to help balance D&D 3.5 as a whole in my campaign setting, a large chunk of which change the way magic itself works so that, for example, blasting, save-or-suck/die/lose effects, and game-changers are intrinsically far less powerful or versatile/viable in combat.

If anyone wants a link to see the full house rules document on Google Drive, PM me (it doesn't require having a Google account).

[Thrawn183]

Healers are spontaneous casters and know all the spells on their list.

The Hexblade fix posted by the guy that wrote the class. Don't know where it is off the top of my head.

No Shock Trooper + pounce.

A single action can only provoke a single attack of opportunity.

(Nobody I play with really optimizes casters outside of funny sub-optimal concepts, even though they could.)

[Pangaea]

Bump wizards up to d6 hit dice, they are just a little too squishy sometimes.

Critical fumbles are a big thing. If you roll a 1, something bad is going to happen, like you chop off your own arm or something. Combat should be dangerous!

Constitution checks every round in melee to avoid becoming fatigued (10 + total rounds in combat), combat is physically exhausting.

Absolutely no ToB. WAY too overpowered, I mean, what can a wizard do if you just IHS away all his spells?

Wizards get xp for studying in libraries, that's pretty much how they learn spells. Melees still need to gain xp in combat, because a sparring dummy isn't the same thing.

[TuggyNE]

Bump wizards up to d6 hit dice, they are just a little too squishy sometimes.

Critical fumbles are a big thing. If you roll a 1, something bad is going to happen, like you chop off your own arm or something. Combat should be dangerous!

Constitution checks every round in melee to avoid becoming fatigued (10 + total rounds in combat), combat is physically exhausting.

Absolutely no ToB. WAY too overpowered, I mean, what can a wizard do if you just IHS away all his spells?

Wizards get xp for studying in libraries, that's pretty much how they learn spells. Melees still need to gain xp in combat, because a sparring dummy isn't the same thing.

Make the hurting stop! :smalleek:

[Jlerpy]

Bump wizards up to d6 hit dice, they are just a little too squishy sometimes.

Critical fumbles are a big thing. If you roll a 1, something bad is going to happen, like you chop off your own arm or something. Combat should be dangerous!

Constitution checks every round in melee to avoid becoming fatigued (10 + total rounds in combat), combat is physically exhausting.

Absolutely no ToB. WAY too overpowered, I mean, what can a wizard do if you just IHS away all his spells?

Wizards get xp for studying in libraries, that's pretty much how they learn spells. Melees still need to gain xp in combat, because a sparring dummy isn't the same thing.



These look very silly. You really power spellcasters UP?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I would say ditching enhancement bonuses is an actually good one....I learned of this through Pairo'dicelost. It's a pretty good rule, but I don't know the entirety of it.

You rang? :smallamused: Yes, my go-to houserule for the magic item christmas tree is to give everyone +1 to all ability scores and +1 untyped to AC at every even level, in exchange for cutting WBL to half normal. By 20th level, that gives you +15 to AC and +5 to everything else that uses an ability modifier, compared to standard 3e, which is the equivalent of having all the Big Six items at +5. In exchange, all items that grant enhancement bonuses no longer do so, and their prices are reduced accordingly.

That actually gives players more cash overall (the average full Big Six loadout costs around 500K gp, much more than half of 20th level WBL), but this houserule ensures that all of their magic items are cool and interesting ones rather than boring number items, ensures that they don't need any of their items, and makes sure everyone is at the same level as far as numerical bonuses are concerned.

Other houserules I use for most of my games include, but are not limited to:Character building: Feats are every odd level instead of every 3rd.
All bonus types are condensed down to the following:
Bonuses from an external source (spells, equipment, etc.) are enhancement bonuses.
Bonuses from innate biology (racial bonuses, ability modifiers, templates, permanent magic, etc.) are inherent bonuses.
Bonuses from training (feats, class features, etc.) are competence bonuses. That's it. So now every single roll can have at most 4 bonuses applied (aside from small +1s and +2 from flanking and such), three typed bonuses plus the base modifier like BAB or skill ranks, which drastically simplifies and reins in the math.
Classes with full BAB can ignore two feat prerequisites for each iterative attack they have, as long as none of the ignored prerequisites is improved/built upon by the feat (for instance, a fighter with +6 BAB could ignore the Int 13, Combat Expertise, Mobility, and Spring Attack prerequisites on Whirlwind Attack, but couldn't ignore the Power Attack prerequisite on Leap Attack or Shock Trooper because they directly build on Power Attack) and as long as the feat in question is taken at the same level that they take a level in a full-BAB class. Fighters (and only fighters) can start taking epic feats at BAB +11.
Magic:
Healing magic heals proportionally to a target's HD, plus a static "kicker" based on the caster: cure minor wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, cure critical wounds, and heal heal 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 HP per HD of the target respectively, plus the caster's CL and key ability modifier.
Natural Spell is now a metamagic feat. You can prepare a spell to be castable in wild shape only for a +0 adjustment, or to be cast in either normal or wild shaped form for a +1 adjustment.
All daily abilities refresh at dawn, since flavor-wise dawn is a renewing/refreshing force as in the Dresden Files and similar settings, and you can only use a new daily ability starting at the second dawn after you've gained it. (Spells still require rest and preparation, you just can't prepare spells between one dawn and another.) This means no 8 hour rest/10 minute adventure/8 hour rest cycles, no preparing spells multiple times per day, no daily abilities on summoned or polymorphed creatures (since they effectively don't exist before being conjured/transmuted), and so forth. Yes, you still refresh things if you're underground or otherwise can't see the dawn. No, there are no planes where dawn comes more than once every 24 hours, it's either normal Prime time or timeless--and no, you don't refresh dailies on a timeless plane, sucks to be you.
0th level rules:
Every class has a 0th level, which grants +1 to good saves, X+Int*3 skill points, and a minor class feature borrowed from 1st level (like cantrips for arcanists or constant detect evil for paladins), and the 1st level of every class grants just +1 to good saves and normal skill points, so starting at 1st level is unchanged but it's possible to "multiclass" as a 1st level character. This means that (A) the good save progression is changed so multiclassing doesn't screw with saves too much and (B) character concepts requiring multiclassing can get off the ground faster.
Every creature gets a flat amount of extra HP based on size (5 for Medium, plus or minus 1 for each size up or down), increasing survivability at low levels and coincidentally giving 0th-level characters some HP without giving them HD.
It's possible to "dual-class" (like AD&D multiclassing or 3e gestalt, except you take the average of all numerical progressions instead of the better of the two) at 1.5 times the normal XP cost, split evenly between sides (e.g. a 7th-level character and a 5th/5th level character both have 22,000 XP, and at 190,000 XP you end up as a 16th/16th level character). You can start as a 0th/0th level character in a 1st-level campaign.
Monster rules:
Polymorph effects replace your character entirely. You polymorph into a hydra? You get the exact Monster Manual hydra entry--you don't keep your own abilities, items, buffs, or anything else, you're just a hydra.
There are no such things as nonabilities, and animals aren't limited to just 1 or 2 Int.
Con measures strength of animating force, whether positive energy for living things, negative energy for undead, or elemental energy for constructs, so liches and colossi have high Con and skeletons and homunculi have low Con.
Int measures the capability of a creature for complex thought, whether learning on the part of sapient creatures, instincts on the part of animals, or programming on the part of mindless creatures, so dolphins have high Int and zombies have low Int.
Str measures the ability to exert force against similar materials, so incorporeal creatures have a Str score for interacting with other incorporeal creatures and for any touch attacks/telekinesis/etc. they may have.
Immobile monsters with no Dex are traps, not creatures. Among other things, this means we no longer need bonus-HP kludges for constructs and undead, nearly-sapient animals have near-human Int scores, you can judge how capable a golem's programming is by its new Int score, and so forth.
These of course go along with other fixes too complex to describe here, like skill condensation, class revisions, recategorized schools of magic, unified combat maneuvers, and so forth, but those are the quick and dirty ones.

[Curmudgeon]

These look very silly. You really power spellcasters UP?
Blue is the color of sarcasm around these parts. :smalltongue:

[Yora]

I play without a grid, which really doesn't require much adjustments when you drop 5-foot-steps, as Star Wars Saga does by default.

My campaigns generally don't have any NPCs above 10th level and don't run long enough for any PCs to get there, and I use pretty short whitelists for classes, races, and equipment, but those aren't really rules.

[Jlerpy]

Blue is the color of sarcasm around these parts. :smalltongue:

Ah. I did not know that.

[Flickerdart]

To be totally pedantic, blue is sarcasm. Royal Blue is not anything.

[Jlerpy]

To be totally pedantic, blue is sarcasm. Royal Blue is not anything.

Majestic sarcasm?

[ryu]

Ort you are aware that mages laugh at AMF due to shrunken lead cone hats and contingencies right? That spell does nothing to wizards. It screws over melee people who rely almost exclusively on magic items at high level.

[TuggyNE]

To be totally pedantic, blue is sarcasm. Royal Blue is not anything.

Pedantry should be gray. Just saying.





:smalltongue:

[Jlerpy]

Ort you are aware that mages laugh at AMF due to shrunken lead cone hats and contingencies right? That spell does nothing to wizards. It screws over melee people who rely almost exclusively on magic items at high level.

I hadn't heard of the shrunken lead hat solution. That may be the stupidest thing I've heard today. That is exactly the kind of Rat Brain armour stupidity that my friend Marc would come up with.

[Flickerdart]

Pedantry should be gray. Just saying.





:smalltongue:
Rank of the mill pedantry is gray. Total pedantry is black. :smallamused:

[Kelb_Panthera]

I hadn't heard of the shrunken lead hat solution. That may be the stupidest thing I've heard today. That is exactly the kind of Rat Brain armour stupidity that my friend Marc would come up with.

Do a little research on the tinfoil hat, it's a solid trick. If a cone rubs you the wrong way, a hemispheric skullcap works just as well.

[Ragnorrok]

I usually allow just about anything, since of course they're new but they have to pass it by me first in case it's something broken. Bad move I know, but it's to help them get into the groove. Also I let them put 5 ranks in a single profession for their character's backstory.

[ryu]

I hadn't heard of the shrunken lead hat solution. That may be the stupidest thing I've heard today. That is exactly the kind of Rat Brain armour stupidity that my friend Marc would come up with.

Why did you think wizards wear pointy hats? Because they're fashionable?:smalltongue:

[Jlerpy]

Do a little research on the tinfoil hat, it's a solid trick. If a cone rubs you the wrong way, a hemispheric skullcap works just as well.

Tinfoil hats amplify the mind control rays. They want you to wear them.

That lead hat trick is patently stupid. Players who pull it and DMs who allow it are not people I'd want to play with. I would vastly prefer an item that just auto-teleported you away when you were about to enter an AMF.
But then, I don't think much of them as a concept at all.

[Flickerdart]

That lead hat trick is patently stupid.

If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid.

[ryu]

Hat unshrinks on contact with field which in turn creates perfect block of line of sight from AMF. I keep hundreds of layers of hats available at any given time. This is what happens when you try to challenge a man who changes reality by wagging his fingers. He makes your effort moot if not outright using it against you. This is why magic must defeat magic. Magic is the most powerful thing in the world.

[Jlerpy]

If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid.

You misunderstand me. It is stupid that it works.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Tinfoil hats amplify the mind control rays. They want you to wear them.

That lead hat trick is patently stupid. Players who pull it and DMs who allow it are not people I'd want to play with. I would vastly prefer an item that just auto-teleported you away when you were about to enter an AMF.
But then, I don't think much of them as a concept at all.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth but what you find stupid is that the trick WORKS. The trick itself is quite clever but it rubs you the wrong way because it negates one of the things that is, supposedly, intended to be a foil against magic users. Not that AMF was ever particularly useful against spell casters anyway.

Does that sound about right?

Dead magic zones are kind of a cheap way to limit spell casters anyway. It's like creating an area where swords won't cut to slow down a fighter. You could do it but it shows a rather clear lack of imagination and system mastery.

[Agent 451]

Fighters (and only fighters) can start taking epic feats at BAB +11.

Out of curiosity, how well does this work within a game?

[Jlerpy]

Sorry for putting words in your mouth but what you find stupid is that the trick WORKS. The trick itself is quite clever but it rubs you the wrong way because it negates one of the things that is, supposedly, intended to be a foil against magic users. Not that AMF was ever particularly useful against spell casters anyway.

Both, actually. It's a stupid work-around to a stupid challenge. And it's stupid that anyone would let it work, because it's stupid.

[Zaydos]

Well I've started actually writing mine down and mostly only touched on core (and haven't even touched on the problem that is druids) but:

Permanent Int increases retroactively increase skill points (but +X Int items don’t).

The following skills are combined:
Spot and Listen as Perception; Alertness feat now gives +2 to Search and Perception.
Hide and Move Silently as Stealth
Open Locks and Disable Device as Disable Device.
Balance and Tumble as Acrobatics.
Climb and Jump as Athletics
Speak Language, Decipher Script, and Forgery as Linguistics.
Escape Artist and Use Rope as Escape Artist.
Gather Information can now be done with either Diplomacy or Knowledge (Local), and the two stated skills offer synergy to each other but only for this purpose.

The following races are altered:
Tieflings have either +2 Dex and +2 Int or +2 Int and +2 Cha.
Half-elves gain bonus skill points as humans.
Half-orcs do not suffer a penalty to Int and gain +2 to Intimidate checks.

The following PHB spells do not exist:
1st level: Color Spray, Grease
2nd: Rope Trick
3rd: Shrink Object
4th: Solid Fog
5th: Commune, Contact Other Plane
6th: Acid Fog
7th: Simulacrum
8th: Polymorph any Object

The following spells have been changed:
Alter Self: Duration 1 round/level.
Glibness: Adds +10 +1/2 caster level instead of flat +30.
Polymorph: Duration 1 round/level.
Plane Shift has its spell level increased by 1 (except as a domain spell).
Shapechange: No Su abilities.
Gate: Treats all creatures as unique (no control is granted).
Disjunction is simply an AoE targeted dispel at +10 with no CL cap; items that are dispelled are suppressed for 10 minutes.
Divine Power: Is no longer a general cleric spell.
Righteous Might: Is no longer a general cleric spell.

Classes:
Monk: Gains full BAB. They need it.

Tome of Battle:
Most of Divine Spirit has Su tag.
Iron Heart Surge only works on things that have a duration actually measured in rounds not just that aren’t instant.
WRT cannot be used on self

Magic items:
Defending does not stack with other defending bonuses.
Hat of Disguise: Costs 10,000 GP.

[Flickerdart]

Both, actually. It's a stupid work-around to a stupid challenge. And it's stupid that anyone would let it work, because it's stupid.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[ryu]

It is the perfect logical conclusion on how to deal with such an emanation. It uses the effects of the spell to counter said spell at a cheaper cost than the actual spell. There's also the workaround for disjunction involving pulling an arbitrarily large amount of worthless artifacts out of a spell component pouch beforehand.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Out of curiosity, how well does this work within a game?

No issues so far. Most epic feats are underwhelming ("oooh, DR 3!") or comparable to nonepic stuff ("Dire Charge! For when a level of barbarian is too powerful!"), and the few feats worth taking are either powerful but fine for a fighter (e.g. Devastating Critical, a SoD on a crit with a DC that won't impress anyone at that level, or Uncanny Accuracy, something you can enchant your weapon with) or unique but not incredibly powerful (e.g. Distant Shot, sure you can shoot anywhere, good luck seeing that far, or Exceptional Deflection, it's about time they can deal with rays).

[Jlerpy]

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

I'm not wrong, I'm just an *******.

[Flickerdart]

I'm not wrong, I'm just an *******.
Opinions cannot be right or wrong (except in a moral sense). All you have proven is that you think it's stupid, which isn't actually any sort of argument or evidence.

[TuggyNE]

Both, actually. It's a stupid work-around to a stupid challenge. And it's stupid that anyone would let it work, because it's stupid.

Go on, tell us how you really feel. :smalltongue:

More seriously, I think the weird quirk about tinfoil hats that redeems them to me is that they actually make the fashion of wearing tall conical wizard hats make sense, and I'm a sucker for things that make sense.

[Curmudgeon]

More seriously, I think the weird quirk about tinfoil hats that redeems them to me is that they actually make the fashion of wearing tall conical wizard hats make sense, and I'm a sucker for things that make sense.
Do you know of any place in the D&D books which actually has a pointy Wizard's hat as an available item? I've looked over the standard outfits for new characters (Player's Handbook, page 131), and a tall conical hat isn't included in any of them. Mialee and Nebin, the PH Wizards, aren't depicted wearing hats. I've flipped through all of Complete Arcane without seeing a single pointy Wizard hat.

I don't think that sort of hat makes any sense in D&D, and I'm a sucker for things that actually jibe with the rules.

[TuggyNE]

Do you know of any place in the D&D books which actually has a pointy Wizard's hat as an available item? I've looked over the standard outfits for new characters (Player's Handbook, page 131), and a tall conical hat isn't included in any of them. Mialee and Nebin, the PH Wizards, aren't depicted wearing hats. I've flipped through all of Complete Arcane without seeing a single pointy Wizard hat.

Hmm, I'll have to think on that.

[NichG]

The lead hat thing basically suffers from the problem that the D&D rules aren't really designed for sub-grid resolution. We know that a 5ft x 5ft chunk of material will block a burst, emanation, etc, but we don't know how thick the material must 'actually' be to do so.

If you take it too far, 'wearing clothes' makes you immune to bursts and emanations, because it is a layer of material between you and the source of the effect.

So there's some (unknown) point below which the emanation would just sleet through, and that threshold isn't specified by the rules afaik (the lead thing is specifically called out for various divinations, but its not in the general rules for line of effect or bursts/emanations).

The closest the rules get to specifying this, IIRC, is that a creature must have 'total cover' to be protected from an emanation. 'Total cover' has the rules consequence that the target cannot be attacked at all. I would argue that a wizard wearing even a 1 inch thick lead cone (which would probably give them quite a crick in their neck) could still be battered around by a hill giant's club - it might give them AC as if they were wearing plate mail (and a lot of ASF to go with it), but it doesn't make them immune to attack.

So the real answer to an antimagic field is the Tower Shield, which explicitly has the ability to grant you total cover.

[ryu]

Uh no? When the cone is full size the giant has no line of sight or effect to you. Thus it can only attack the cone.

[NichG]

Uh no? When the cone is full size the giant has no line of sight or effect to you. Thus it can only attack the cone.

This is what I mean about sub-grid resolution. Lets say the cone is made of gossamer. The rules don't say that lead will block these things but gossamer will not. How about a really baggy cloak?

When you get to sub-grid resolution, you really just have to let equipment rules take over. Characters can wear fully-enclosing plate mail and still be attacked. There is not much difference between fully-enclosing plate mail and a fully-enclosing lead cone. By RAW, Full Plate doesn't provide total cover.

[Amphetryon]

One that I regularly use that isn't included here:

Evasion reduces damage down to 1/die rolled on a successful REF save, unless 1/2 damage would be less, rather than eliminating all damage. Improved Evasion halves that number (again, unless 1/4 damage rolled would be less).

It makes Evocation slightly more useful, and doesn't hurt our brains quite so much when contemplating the "Fireball hits the Rogue in the broom-closet" scenario.

*Braces for incoming rant about D&D Physics and catgirls*

[ryu]

This is what I mean about sub-grid resolution. Lets say the cone is made of gossamer. The rules don't say that lead will block these things but gossamer will not. How about a really baggy cloak?

When you get to sub-grid resolution, you really just have to let equipment rules take over. Characters can wear fully-enclosing plate mail and still be attacked. There is not much difference between fully-enclosing plate mail and a fully-enclosing lead cone. By RAW, Full Plate doesn't provide total cover.

The lead plate still leaves an accurate outline of where your body is. The cone does not. Is the gossamer transparent? If not you still have to tear it open first.

[NichG]

The lead plate still leaves an accurate outline of where your body is. The cone does not. Is the gossamer transparent? If not you still have to tear it open first.

The rules for line of sight and line of effect say nothing about 'outlines of the body' or anything like that. Basically at this point you're making stuff up.

[ryu]

The rules for line of sight and line of effect say nothing about 'outlines of the body' or anything like that. Basically at this point you're making stuff up.

I was explaining in real world logic why the rules shake out as they do. You're the one who demanded the difference between armor and a structure that full conceals.

[NichG]

I was explaining in real world logic why the rules shake out as they do. You're the one who demanded the difference between armor and a structure that full conceals.

You're using real world logic when it suits you, then switching to game logic when its more convenient. Real world logic: a roaring inferno would cook someone inside a metal cone. Game logic: Something that breaks line of effect provides complete protection from bursts and emanations.

RAW-only TO/etc discussion is fine. Real-world-logic based rulings are fine. I object when people jump haphazardly between them, because it makes everything into a game of cowboys and indians "No, you didn't shoot me because in D&D arrows are instant, but in real life that means they go faster than light and have infinite energy so it blows up in your face when it touches the atmosphere! But I'm okay because my poncho blocks line of effect from the explosion!".

[ryu]

You're using real world logic when it suits you, then switching to game logic when its more convenient. Real world logic: a roaring inferno would cook someone inside a metal cone. Game logic: Something that breaks line of effect provides complete protection from bursts and emanations.

RAW-only TO/etc discussion is fine. Real-world-logic based rulings are fine. I object when people jump haphazardly between them, because it makes everything into a game of cowboys and indians "No, you didn't shoot me because in D&D arrows are instant, but in real life that means they go faster than light and have infinite energy so it blows up in your face when it touches the atmosphere! But I'm okay because my poncho blocks line of effect from the explosion!".

That would be true if I were using real world logic and raw to say different things. As I'm using both to say that no you can't attack the guy in the cone your argument doesn't actually apply here.

[Flickerdart]

You're using real world logic when it suits you, then switching to game logic when its more convenient. Real world logic: a roaring inferno would cook someone inside a metal cone. Game logic: Something that breaks line of effect provides complete protection from bursts and emanations.
A roaring inferno would cook someone inside a metal cone once it managed to heat the cone enough, and then after the cone transferred enough heat to the inside to heat the air. By which point the wizard could have teleported away fifty times.

[Pex]

My group plays Pathfinder. We use the following house rules:

1) Out of combat magical healing is maximized.

2) To craft a magic item you must have the printed caster level and you must have all the prerequisite spells. No short cut of +5 Spellcraft DC. (I disagree and like Pathfinder's rules but oh well.)

3) Recently added because the barbarian was dying too much: hit points gained due to Con increase when the barbarian rages are temporary hit points. Therefore, should the barbarian drop to below 0 hit points and the rage ends, while his Con returns to normal he doesn't suddenly lose 2 x level hit points as well and die.

[Curmudgeon]

One that I regularly use that isn't included here:

Evasion reduces damage down to 1/die rolled on a successful REF save, unless 1/2 damage would be less, rather than eliminating all damage. Improved Evasion halves that number (again, unless 1/4 damage rolled would be less).

It makes Evocation slightly more useful, and doesn't hurt our brains quite so much when contemplating the "Fireball hits the Rogue in the broom-closet" scenario.

*Braces for incoming rant about D&D Physics and catgirls*
I'm not going to debate the physics. Instead, I'll simply point out that you're nerfing one of the few ways that non-spellcasters can compete against spellcasters, and that's absolutely the wrong way to tilt the game.

I'd much prefer a house rule for evasion like this:

If a Rogue uses evasion to avoid damage and their Reflex save exceeds the required DC by 5+, adjacent allies take no more than half damage even if they fail their own saving throws.

[Amphetryon]

I'm not going to debate the physics. Instead, I'll simply point out that you're nerfing one of the few ways that non-spellcasters can compete against spellcasters, and that's absolutely the wrong way to tilt the game.

I'd much prefer a house rule for evasion like this:

If a Rogue uses evasion to avoid damage and their Reflex save exceeds the required DC by 5+, adjacent allies take no more than half damage even if they fail their own saving throws.

Difference in opinion and playstyle duly noted.

[NichG]

That would be true if I were using real world logic and raw to say different things. As I'm using both to say that no you can't attack the guy in the cone your argument doesn't actually apply here.

RAW does not say that you can't attack the guy in the cone. You have yet to actually give any evidence to the contrary here, other than stuff you made up and saying the same thing over and over again as if repeating it makes it true.

If you don't agree, prove me wrong with the rules.


A roaring inferno would cook someone inside a metal cone once it managed to heat the cone enough, and then after the cone transferred enough heat to the inside to heat the air. By which point the wizard could have teleported away fifty times.

I don't really have a problem with this argument if thats how you want to run it - the decision that real life logic trumps game rules is absolutely a valid one and a reasonable way to run the game.

In a game like this, I would expect that a silk cone would not provide as much protection as a lead cone against a fireball, because by real-life logic they are not equally resistant to fire. I would also expect that a fireball might scorch someone's clothing if they failed the Reflex save, even if it wasn't a nat 1, that a Cone of Cold should be able to help me make ice in the summer, and that iron is worthless because wizards have over-used Wall of Iron and drove down the market values.

I would roll my eyes however if you simultaneously tried to argue that real life logic and bizarre RAW stuff should apply. If I saw drown-healing in use, for example.

[ryu]

Google concealment and pay special attention to the total concealment section. Would've been nice of you to spend five seconds checking the mentioned rule in the srd before accusing me of making things up by the way.

[NichG]

Google concealment and pay special attention to the total concealment section. Would've been nice of you to spend five seconds checking the mentioned rule in the srd before accusing me of making things up by the way.

Total concealment is not the same as total cover. Specifically, concealment has nothing at all to do with the effects of emanations or bursts. Being invisible does not protect you from a fireball, but it does give you total concealment.

Compare:



Total Concealment

If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).




Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.




A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.


(emphasis mine)

[ryu]

Technically the cone does both. You have neither line of sight or effect.

[pwykersotz]

Line of Effect: A straight, unblocked line between two locations on the battlefield. Line of effect is just like line of sight, except that restrictions on vision don't apply.

On the other hand, some things that you can see through can block line of effect, such as a wall of force or an antimagic field. Though the rules don't specifically say so, you always have line of effect to yourself.

In general, it takes a solid object to block line of effect (but immaterial things, such as antimagic fields can, too, as noted above). A solid object with a hole it at least 1 foot square doesn't block line of effect.

Creatures usually do not block line of effect, except for very odd creatures, such as gelatinous cubes, that can completely fill a space.

In a few cases, line of effect can turn corners (see Part Five).

The argument here is about what defines 'solid'. A silk sheet is solid, does it block the emanation? Full plate armor is solid, does it block the emanation? A lead cone is solid, does it block the emanation?

Ryu, the question that keeps coming up is this: In the game rules, does it count as solid enough? And what is the limit of what counts as solid enough? In real life, if the cone will protect you, why won't Full Plate and why will a Tower Shield? Where's the connecting logic? It's not that your arguments don't support each other, it's that both arguments have opposition from other examples in their field.

Edit: Note that I do believe the hat trick works, I'm just interested in the discussion. I classify solid in my games as having a hardness and (sometimes) opacity.

[ryu]

Full plate is armor whereas the cone is a structure entirely separate from your body when unshrunken. I also rather doubt the full plate is a single non permeable piece of metal. If it is you can't even move because of lack of any joints.

[pwykersotz]

Full plate is armor whereas the cone is a structure entirely separate from your body when unshrunken. I also rather doubt the full plate is a single non permeable piece of metal. If it is you can't even move because of lack of any joints.

But while logical, those are completely arbitrary. If having joints qualifies as not imposing line of effect, that means that a door wouldn't block it either, as the emanation would go under the door and past the creases in the wall. And as far as non-permeable goes, that implies that you treat emanations having the same penetrating power as a liquid or gas. What game rules do you use to justify that?

[NichG]

Also, in order for a wall to become permeable due to holes, it must have at least a one square foot gap. You could make armor that someone could breathe in, move in, etc, that doesn't expose a square foot of skin. So by RAW, anyone wearing full plate is immune to burst/emanation/etc types of spells and cannot be attacked - you'd think they would have mentioned something like that. Unless of course we read 'wall' to mean something more than just 'any layer of solid material'.

I will grant that there would be some size of cone where it stops being 'equipment' and starts to be a wall. To be as close to RAW as possible in this sort of ambiguous case, I'd guess that it would basically have to completely enclose an entire 5ft square (e.g. it would have to be big enough to be a map feature) and would have to prevent all movement through that square. So more like a tipi with 1 inch thick walls than a hat.

[ryu]

Also, in order for a wall to become permeable due to holes, it must have at least a one square foot gap. You could make armor that someone could breathe in, move in, etc, that doesn't expose a square foot of skin. So by RAW, anyone wearing full plate is immune to burst/emanation/etc types of spells and cannot be attacked - you'd think they would have mentioned something like that. Unless of course we read 'wall' to mean something more than just 'any layer of solid material'.

I will grant that there would be some size of cone where it stops being 'equipment' and starts to be a wall. To be as close to RAW as possible in this sort of ambiguous case, I'd guess that it would basically have to completely enclose an entire 5ft square (e.g. it would have to be big enough to be a map feature) and would have to prevent all movement through that square. So more like a tipi with 1 inch thick walls than a hat.

That's it? Man I just do that normally. I also keep a silly number of smaller shrunken cones under the one currently in use as spares.

Also indeed you COULD make armor of that sort. It would likely be crazy impractical to get into and likely isn't the base armor, but no one said you couldn't.

As for the comments about gas and liquid strength penetration: At no point is it stated the line of effect needs to move perfectly straight into the gap from a perfectly direct angle. This means an emanation is a serious threat to basic jointed plate if you attempt to do pretty much anything which would put the torso joint, face (depending on size), or if a large sized creature any of your limb joints. If we're getting specific and deep into RAW simple medieval armor with no specific engineering to prevent it is full of one foot holes to exploit. This is why I prefer the cone on as flat ground as possible. No holes to worry about.

[Tevesh]

After a fumbled attack, roll to "confirm". If you miss a second time, you provoke an AoO from anyone adjacent to you.

When I decide to run another game, that is the house rule I will include.

Natural 20s are so grad with potential more pay off. Natural 1s are just a miss... With this, there is some awesome to it. Also, Fighters are less likely to draw AoOs due to superior fighting skill which makes sense. And makes Combat Reflexes even better with or without Reach.

I have the usual bunch, more HP and better stats.

[NichG]

As for the comments about gas and liquid strength penetration: At no point is it stated the line of effect needs to move perfectly straight into the gap from a perfectly direct angle. This means an emanation is a serious threat to basic jointed plate if you attempt to do pretty much anything which would put the torso joint, face (depending on size), or if a large sized creature any of your limb joints. If we're getting specific and deep into RAW simple medieval armor with no specific engineering to prevent it is full of one foot holes to exploit. This is why I prefer the cone on as flat ground as possible. No holes to worry about.

This is wrong by RAW. Line of effect must be straight lines:



Line of Effect

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect.

[Amphetryon]

When I decide to run another game, that is the house rule I will include.

Natural 20s are so grad with potential more pay off. Natural 1s are just a miss... With this, there is some awesome to it. Also, Fighters are less likely to draw AoOs due to superior fighting skill which makes sense. And makes Combat Reflexes even better with or without Reach.

I have the usual bunch, more HP and better stats.

The melee types will provoke the most AoOs, because they make the most attack rolls; casters can largely avoid Melee attacks at all, and this houserule would encourage them to.

[ryu]

This is wrong by RAW. Line of effect must be straight lines:

Notice that I used more language than that. The important part involved the direct angle bit. In other words you can go in the hole from straight into it, at a 45 degree angle, a ten degree angle, or even a one degree angle. All that is required is that a straight line passes through the minimum sized hole. It can come in from any angle it pleases.

[NichG]

Notice that I used more language than that. The important part involved the direct angle bit. In other words you can go in the hole from straight into it, at a 45 degree angle, a ten degree angle, or even a one degree angle. All that is required is that a straight line passes through the minimum sized hole. It can come in from any angle it pleases.

It cannot however bend. It must be a direct line.

[ryu]

It cannot however bend. It must be a direct line.

And that doesn't matter in the case of hitting you in the stomach with an almost perfectly vertical line from any emanation cast at your feet. This is why armor with pieces and joints is something I pointed out as a problem for blocking emanations. It is also, again, why I like my cones on flat land. If not we might get a wise guy casting AMFs at the bass of the thing in a dip in the ground.

[nyarlathotep]

Here are my current pathfinder house rules


barbarians now have knowledge (nature) and perform as class skills
druids gain knowledge (geography) as a class skill
teleport, greater teleport, and teleportation circle are banned, all classes that have the following on their spell list that do not have word of recall gain word of recall with level equal to the spell level they previously had greater teleport
the improved and greater version of all combat manuever feats are combined into a single feat that gives all the benefits of both and has the prerequisites of the improved level
legs beyond four do not give any bonus CMD against tripping
monks are considered to have the improved unarmed strike feat for all purposes
ACP does not apply to ride checks
use 3.5's dispel magic rather than pathfinder's
use 3.5 stand still in place of pathfinder's
Ranger animal companions can be chosen from the full list and are considered to have an effective druid level equal to their ranger level rather than ranger level -3. Beastmaster's strongbond makes his effective druid level equal to his level +4. Falconer recieves the same benefit upon recieving hutner's bond.
There are no size limits on combat manuevers
Iterative attacks only take a -2 cumulative penalty instead of -5.
Acrobatics loses jump.
Jump, climb, and swim are rolled into one strength based skill called Athletics.
spring attack and ride-by attack function as fly-by attack does allowing a standard action to be taken anywhere in a given move action
endurance gives all of the benefits of diehard in addition to its other benefits and counts as diehard for the purposes of prerequisites
strikeback does not exist, everyone can use its "benefits" without the need for a feat
Two weapon fighting gives all the benefits of improved two weapon fighting and greater two weapon fighting as soon as one meets the prerequisites.
Double Slice allows one to make a number of attacks with their offhand weapon on charges and during any attacks of oppertunity equal to the number of attacks allowed by their primary weapon. This only applies if the offhand weapon is not otherwise able to be used, for instance this does not double the number of offhand attacks made on a charge.
hold the blade may be used against any melee attacks that hit you not just those performed from flank or sneak attack.
Situation feats are feats that you simply receive for free upon gaining all of their prerequisites. They are the following:
-unseat
-improved blind-fight
-greater blind-fight
-moonlight stalker feint
-moonlight stalker master
In general if a penalty applies to attack rolls it also applies to caster level checks and concentration checks, specifically this includes fatigue and exhaustion
Concentration checks use base attack bonus instead of caster level

[Kelb_Panthera]

This is what I mean about sub-grid resolution. Lets say the cone is made of gossamer. The rules don't say that lead will block these things but gossamer will not. How about a really baggy cloak?

When you get to sub-grid resolution, you really just have to let equipment rules take over. Characters can wear fully-enclosing plate mail and still be attacked. There is not much difference between fully-enclosing plate mail and a fully-enclosing lead cone. By RAW, Full Plate doesn't provide total cover.

Here's the problem. You're assuming that the unshrunken cone is still being worn as a ridiculously over-sized hat. It's not.

When unshrunken the cone completely covers the wizard's space and is standing freely on the ground, blocking line of sight and effect as a free standing structure that the wizard is inside.

BTW, line of effect is broken by -any- unattended object regardless of thickness or transparency or even structure as long as no gap in it is larger than 1 square foot. Clothing and armor are attended so they don't block LoE. A tower shield does block LoE because it specifically says it does, rather it grants total cover which is defined as completely blocking LoE and LoS.

[NichG]

Here's the problem. You're assuming that the unshrunken cone is still being worn as a ridiculously over-sized hat. It's not.

When unshrunken the cone completely covers the wizard's space and is standing freely on the ground, blocking line of sight and effect as a free standing structure that the wizard is inside.


Yes, I said as much a few posts back - a cone that is as large or larger than a 5ft square would likely qualify as a 'wall' rather than equipment. Mostly I'm taking up this particular argument because I feel it deserves more careful consideration than 'its stupid' and 'that isn't a counterargument'. Clearly there are ways in which it can go wrong, namely if you just used a cone that covers you but is smaller than a 5ft diameter. (I'll admit, it also rubs me the wrong way when someone tries to justify TO stuff with 'real-world logic' instead of the actual rules)

[Tevesh]

Your Initiative bonus = Ref save.

(It seems so obvious to me, I'm puzzled why it never wound up in D&D4E.)

I also like this, this is really elegant.

I think the reason why it never made it to 4th was because of Reflex being a static number (its an AC), rather than the Save it formerly was.

[Adverb]

After a fumbled attack, roll to "confirm". If you miss a second time, you provoke an AoO from anyone adjacent to you.


The melee types will provoke the most AoOs, because they make the most attack rolls; casters can largely avoid Melee attacks at all, and this houserule would encourage them to.

Yeah, it does discourage casters to not make melee attacks. I've seen it make casters not take AoOs themselves, because they'd only hit on an 18 and barely do damage, and there's a ~4% chance that the thing they'd be taking the AoO on would tear them a new *******. Melee types do provoke the most under this, especially TWF spam critfisher types, but I am mostly okay with that. It slightly favors summoners, but if someone is summon cheesing I remind them that the casting time on summons is 1 round start to finish, not just an action.

When I run with this, monsters usually provoke 2x as many AoOs as PCs do, since monsters tend to do melee more than PCs do and/or have a lot of attacks per round. It adds fun at my table, at least.

And years later, they still remember the one time the BBEG fumbled its way into some flanked sneak attack AoOs.


No issues so far. Most epic feats are underwhelming ("oooh, DR 3!") or comparable to nonepic stuff ("Dire Charge! For when a level of barbarian is too powerful!"), and the few feats worth taking are either powerful but fine for a fighter (e.g. Devastating Critical, a SoD on a crit with a DC that won't impress anyone at that level, or Uncanny Accuracy, something you can enchant your weapon with) or unique but not incredibly powerful (e.g. Distant Shot, sure you can shoot anywhere, good luck seeing that far, or Exceptional Deflection, it's about time they can deal with rays).

This is my new favorite illustration of 3.5 power creep over time.

[Amphetryon]

Yeah, it does discourage casters to not make melee attacks. I've seen it make casters not take AoOs themselves, because they'd only hit on an 18 and barely do damage, and there's a ~4% chance that the thing they'd be taking the AoO on would tear them a new *******. Melee types do provoke the most under this, especially TWF spam critfisher types, but I am mostly okay with that. It slightly favors summoners, but if someone is summon cheesing I remind them that the casting time on summons is 1 round start to finish, not just an action.

When I run with this, monsters usually provoke 2x as many AoOs as PCs do, since monsters tend to do melee more than PCs do and/or have a lot of attacks per round. It adds fun at my table, at least.

The thing is - and I'm sure you know this, because it's been brought up time and again regarding the "fairness" or "balance" of Critical Fumbles - the vast majority of monsters are only supposed to be in one combat, ever, during a campaign. Even recurring villains rarely get in a combat every session, whereas the Melee-type PCs get in every combat of every session. If the monsters/villains get taken out due to poor luck with the Critical Fumble rules, that's largely okay, because (as most folks I've seen play it) the game generally assumes that the monsters are losing most of the fights anyway, and you, as DM, have as many more monsters to throw at the party as you wish. The Player generally has one Character, who must get lucky against the Critical Fumble rules over and over and over again, or start over.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

This is my new favorite illustration of 3.5 power creep over time.

Except it's not so much "power creep" as "the designers realizing that vastly over-valued stuff isn't really that powerful." Full-attacking on a charge, DR 3, on-crit SoDs, +2 to Str, and similar perks weren't powerful enough to be restricted to epic levels when the PHB came out, before even factoring splatbooks into the equation.

Heck, forcing a Fort save or die on a crit is something you can already do at mid levels without a feat via the massive damage rules: an 8th-level fighter with 20 Str, a greatsword, and 3.5e Power Attack can potentially crit for [2d6+23]*2 damage, which deals a minimum of 50 damage and thus always triggers a massive damage save. Giving that 8th-level fighter that epic feat 13 levels early does nothing but increase the DC by +4.

If anything, there wasn't enough power creep for the weaker classes, both casters and noncasters. 3e continually improved in balance over the course of its run--but not always consistently, there were some major outliers like celerity and truenaming--and the fact that martial characters ended up being able to things like balance on tree branches and one-shot moderately powerful enemies around the same levels their caster buddies could instead of having to wait an extra 10-15 levels is a good thing.

[Flickerdart]

This is my new favorite illustration of 3.5 power creep over time.
Yes, pounce is such an OP epic ability that Lions get it at CR3 in the MMI.

[Jlerpy]

Yes, pounce is such an OP epic ability that Lions get it at CR3 in the MMI.

Ah, but lions don't have as many as five attacks!
Oh wait, yeah, they do.

[NichG]

Yes, pounce is such an OP epic ability that Lions get it at CR3 in the MMI.

And Chokers get Quickness at CR 2. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove, except perhaps that power is not the sum of abilities, its the product.

[killem2]

We gain full HP at 1st, 5th, 10th, 20th levels.

[Craft (Cheese)]

One I like to use (that I haven't already seen) is the following: If you play a martial adept class, you can choose one Tier 4 or lower Martial class and gestalt its class features (but NOT its BAB or saves) with the martial adept class.

So, for example, you can play a Stalker//Ranger and get ranger spellcasting, favored enemy, and the ranger's combat feats, but you don't get the Ranger's full BAB.

[Tevesh]

Martial Adept, like Tomb of Battle guys?

So Warblade plus any Tier-4?

That seems a bit much...

[AuraTwilight]

No, Martial Adept as in Fighter, Barbarian...

[Firechanter]

My houserules -- not only in games I DM myself, but also try to negotiate in other DMs' games -- are sorta constantly evolving, but since I'm generally not a friend of elaborate rewrites, I try to keep things in the "quick fix" department.

The game is 3.5 with some PF backports -- so I guess it would be 3.P.

Character generation:
* D&D PB 32, but no dumpstats
* PF Races
* PF Feat progression (i.e. every odd level), but no flaws
* 3.5 feats plus on-demand PF backports

* 3.5 Traits are fair game,
* PF traits available in more generalized form. I.e. "add 1 skill as class skill", "add +1 to one save", "add +2 to Ini", and that's mostly it.

* Age categories have no mechanical effect. I.e. no drop in physical or gain in mental stats. (Because all I've ever seen it used for was cheese.)

* Fixed HP per level, depending on party size. Typically 1/2 Max at each level beyond 1st, but for smaller parties a higher fraction is possible.

Ruleset:
- obviously dysfunctional rules are ignored or changed based on common sense. So, no heal-drowning for instance.
- no cheese. Where "Cheese" is defined as "depending on a dubious interpretation of the rules".
- desired Powerlevel is T3.

Splats:
Some official WotC material is unavailable, especially:
- Psionics is out
- Incarnum is out
- Pact Magic is out
- Dragon Magic and RotD are both out.

For the most part, not because I deem it broken or OP, but because I simply cba to acquire proficiency in all those additional rule systems.

* ToB is decidedly _in_, but since it's written rather shoddily in many parts, there are several houserules and clarifications. Among others:
- Warblades get their Stances at levels 1, 5, 10, 15
- IHS can remove any character condition (as per DMG 300f) affecting you, and can even be triggered when you normally cannot take any actions (such as when Dominated etc).
- any character can benefit from WRT only up to once per round
- Divine Impetus can be used once per turn as a Free Action.
- Martial Scripts, Martial Lore and WoL are ignored.
- Discipline items use different attunement mechanics; you may now undress to sleep.
- (Battle) Aptitude only applies to feats that have the exact name of the weapon in the name (typically in parantheses).

Magic and Caster classes:
* All casters are Spontaneous casters. Spells Known = Spells per Day.
(some Spont caster classes become obsolete by this)
- Clerics additionally receive their Domain Spells plus a number of curative/restorative spells for free
* Casting stat for spell level / bonus spells is always Int for Arcane, Wis for Divine; Save DCs are always determined by Cha.
* Druids and Rangers swap their pets; i.e. Ranger receives Full HD, Druid receives Half HD.
* 4-level casters like Ranger and Paladin receive +2 Spell Slots per spell level.
* Summons & Callings: not more than 1 creature at a time
* a number of spells is simply banned, such as: Polymorph Line, Celerity Line, and a few other spells generally accepted as broken (Shivering Touch et al).

===============

House rules I _might_ try out (when I get the chance to):

-- Burlew's Diplomacy
-- -5 penalty on Iterative Attacks non-cumulative, so all Iteratives are at max BAB -5, like Natural Attacks.
-- Primary Casters are required to take at least 3 class or PrC levels that don't advance CL.

[Jlerpy]

When would they have to take those 3 levels?

[BWR]

Current houserules for my Mystara campaign, run with PF rules.

- Roll two stat rows (4d6, drop lowest), choose one
- everybody gets Ancestral Relic (from BoED) for free
- Practised Spellcaster is legal
- Item Creation feats are not necessary to craft, but you cannot ignore prereqs to craft, and base DC is 15+SL. However, you cannot improve on items crafted by someone else without the appropriate ICF. ICFs also reduce DC and grant certain other boni (such as slight discount for crafting cost and/or time, ability to recharge wands, etc. I just tone down the amount of treasure the PCs get so they can't always max out their gear, yet can put a lot of money and effort towards getting the exact items they want, without the whole magic shoip problem. Not that magic shops are really a problem with countries like Alphatia, Glantri and Darokin.

There are probably a host of smaller things, but these are the important ones.

[lytokk]

I keep the XP penalty for multiclassing, but change the racial favored class to any. The any is whatever you define your character as, or whatever your highest class level is.

4d6 roll for stats 7 times, dropping the lowest roll from each and the lowest total. After this there's a maximum stat swap of 4 using the normal point buy rolls. It works if someone wants to make a low int barbarian, but didn't roll below a 12, and above a 14.

Fumbles are rolled identically to criticals. On an attack roll of nat 1, another roll is made. If that roll is also a 1, then you have a critical fumble, and my players are free to crush it in my table vice.

Reroll 1s on hit points. If you roll 3 1s in a row however, you're stuck with it, and again the vice is open for use.

any class with a good BAB progression is eligible for the weapon spec line of feats.

You can train with a weapon instead of taking a feat to be proficient with it. It takes a month of training, 8 hours a day. This month may be split up, but may not take longer than 3 months. More complex weapons (such as the spiked chain) take longer to train with, adding a multiplier to the training time. At the end of the training time, you have to actually kill something with the weapon after that you are proficient with it. Training under someone who is proficient with the weapon decreases training time. This time is further decreased if the character has taken focus, improved focus, or greater improved focus with the weapon.

rolling a 20 (or threat) to confirm a crit simply adds to the multiplier. Keep rolling until you don't threat anymore and determine the multiplier to damage then. This caps at adding an extra 4 to the multiplier, at which point the die comes to me for inspection.

All rolls need to be on a hard surface, preferably the table. if it falls to the floor, automatic reroll.

I've got more than this, but I can't ever remember them until they come up in play.

[Tevesh]

Another variant that I occasionally use, which lytokk reminded me of, is that if there are multiple times a die comes off the table - especially from one player - then any time the die falls off the action is an automatic fail.

Its tiresome to see someone try to roll a die in a silly way and repeatedly miss the table. Sure, its fun to see if they actually hit the table but if they don't...

[Deox]

House rules for current 2 D&D games being run:


No multiclass penalty.
Level 20 gestalt, progressing into Epic - caveat is one "side" may only be one class. (Fighter // Wizard/Rogue/Monk etc.)
Advanced array of starting stats: 18,18,16,14,12,10.
Advanced feat progression: Every even level (instead of every 3).
Tier 3 and below (Though some exceptions allowed).
Item creation feats do not take XP, only additional material cost.
All iterative attacks are at highest bonus (after taking all penalties into consideration).
All players start with two +6 and one +4 tome of their choice.

[lytokk]

Just remembered another one, round timers. I don't always use this one, but it happens occasionally. Brought on by a wizard who brought combat to a standstill and a player who only payed attention during his turn. 15 seconds to decide what you're going to do. I still use it during running battle sequences, but thankfully, my players have gotten much better at paying attention and deciding what they're going to do.

[Maginomicon]

Item Creation feats are not necessary to craft, but you cannot ignore prereqs to craft, and base DC is 15+SL. However, you cannot improve on items crafted by someone else without the appropriate ICF. ICFs also reduce DC and grant certain other boni
I use a variant of the craft points system where (in addition to removing the asinine Craft Masterwork feats) the amount of craft points you would have if you never spent any is instead a maximum value on which you can recover. At the end of an encounter, you can recover Craft Points. If you're interested in how I calculate it all, here's a calculator spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AojdoKCdOXqNdE1RQmNsOFRtb2s4MThDdzFwZEkxa 2c&usp=sharing) you can mess with (you can only edit the green boxes).

[Amphetryon]

Just remembered another one, round timers. I don't always use this one, but it happens occasionally. Brought on by a wizard who brought combat to a standstill and a player who only payed attention during his turn. 15 seconds to decide what you're going to do. I still use it during running battle sequences, but thankfully, my players have gotten much better at paying attention and deciding what they're going to do.

Does this get extended for summoners or others controlling multiple 'pieces' during a combat, or is the rule fundamentally a soft ban on those archetypes?

[lytokk]

The timer is adjustable. I try not to hamper anyone whos build is built around complex mechanics. Also the timer resets if you come up with somethimg and then its pointed out it doesn't work.

Was just a quick example of a house rule that was cooked up to deal with problem players.

[Irk]

I say, play anything, one limitation.

It has to be your creation, so no copying.

[ryu]

I say, play anything, one limitation.

It has to be your creation, so no copying.

I sincerely hope you mean that the character itself must be uniquely characterized rather than simply outright not allowing similar builds to exist throughout your table's history. The idea that someone can't make use of similar build thematics would eventually lead to some incredibly limited things if strictly enforced.

[Irk]

Uniquely characterized, sorry wasn't clear.

'so my character uses power attack to deal damage'
'sorry you can't use it'
'why not!'
'well, to begin with, it uses power attack, also it deals damage. That's been taken'

I definitely don't disallow similar builds.

[ryu]

Uniquely characterized, sorry wasn't clear.

'so my character uses power attack to deal damage'
'sorry you can't use it'
'why not!'
'well, to begin with, it uses power attack, also it deals damage. That's been taken'

I definitely don't disallow similar builds.

Okay. We cool.

[Firechanter]

When would they have to take those 3 levels?

Well, I've thought about that but haven't set anything in stone. I guess a reasonable approach would be to require the first lost CL by character level 7, then 2nd by 12, 3rd by 17 or so.
My hope behind that idea would be to bring more diversity to the table, because some PrCs would become viable that normally nobody ever takes. If you must lose 3 CLs anyway, you might even take up to 6 levels in a 5/10 PrC and be none the worse off, if you get my drift.

[Agent 451]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a list of races with recalculated level adjustments that they use in their games?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a list of races with recalculated level adjustments that they use in their games?

I don't have a list, per se, but I do use SS guidelines for eyeballing an appropriate level adjustment if a player wants to play something that has an iffy LA.

[ryu]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a list of races with recalculated level adjustments that they use in their games?

No LA at all. Everyone in the party is going to be as powerful as they want one way or another. Why bother with arbitrary limitations on level for races that mostly aren't all that disparate in power outside of some extreme cases? Oh your drow gets free darkness and levitation? Totally equivalent to entire class levels.

[TheMeMan]

Housey rules(Aside from the general stuff)

All official published material is good. Homebrew stuff is allowable if first gone over with me in detail. Only exception to this is feats that are non-core and I prefer to be asked about prestige classes before you take levels in them. I have never run into a problem with either, but I just like to be in the know before something odd gets thrown at me.

LAs of +1 to +2 are waved at my discretion. Core classes are cool, most +1 races are fine if you ask, and any in the +2 category are going to need my scrutiny before you use them. Racial HD of such races are ignored and don't exist excepting extreme cases and by my discression.

Diplomacy does not work the way it is in the book. I don't have any hard way to gauge how it works, but generally high roll=good, low roll=bad. And some characters just hate you so much that no amount of diplomacy will change their mind. It's a case by case basis, with varying results based on the situation. Same goes for bluff and other things.

Druids are right out. Not because they can outfight the fighter, but because they can do that *on top* of casting almost as well as a sorcerer/wizard, *while* having another fighter on top of it. I don't want a bear riding a bear summoning bears who each can cast Bear Storm or what have you. Same goes for dinosaurs. The class easily snowballs into a one-man party. Clerics are given a heavy dose of scrutiny, and any Wizards best expect a healthy dose of anti-magic stuff and the like. And very few scrolls given out.

WBL is given some attention, but not at all adhered to strictly or even remotely. I'll give you what I give because I think it's cool. Same goes for animal companions, etc. I recently gave out a very young Black Dragon as a companion to the level 6 ranger. Why? Because she's new, it's a fun idea, it does come with a few limitations set by me, she won't abuse it, and most of all it's cool. It honestly hasn't changed the game that dramatically as of yet. Certainly I wouldn't do the same for the sorcerer in the group, who has been playing since 3.0 came out. I have to find ways to stop him from destroying the campaign. I also allowed her a "pet" Shocker lizard due to RP reasons but with heavy restrictions. That said, the DM giveth and the DM taketh away. Abuse my gifts and terrible retribution will come about.

All damaging spells are fine. 3+ level utility spells should be passed by me before you take them. Almost all are fine, but there are a few I loathe. So far, given the level the group, the only spell I've banned is Rope Trick, once again due to the sorcerer. It's not a horribly broken spell, but it does remove a great deal possible campaign and encounter possiblities which is something I don't want. Being able to hide in a hole for the night rather than make a proper camp is just boring. Once I've decided, however, that is final one way or the other. I won't ban something mid-campaign after it's apparent it's a problem. It's unfortunate, but fair. And anything my creations use the PCs can theoretically use if they are able to. So no backsies from me.

That's about all I can think of for now.

[Jlerpy]

I don't want a bear riding a bear summoning bears who each can cast Bear Storm or what have you.

Well, you've convinced me, druids are awesome.

[Flickerdart]

Well, you've convinced me, druids are awesome.
Dinosaur stampede, Spell Compendium.

[Oko and Qailee]

I basically just say "don't be a jerk."

I have banned Resurrection and put larger material costs on any sort of teleportation, but that's because of plot reasons rather than anything else.

[TheMeMan]

Well, you've convinced me, druids are awesome.

It is certainly awesome in theory. In practice, with a group of four other players, it just has the ability to take over many combat encounters while the other player sit idly by and watch the druid do just stupid things. Note the Wizard in *theory* has this ability and then some(As do most spell casters), but with the groups I play with they generally don't have such a large impact as that. Druids do it without even trying to do it. They just turn into a bear, sick their bear on someone, and summon more bears reaching critical bear-mass leading to a bear-plosion.

That said, I think I want to make the "Bear Storm" spell that essentially is Meteor Storm but replace meteors with ravenous bears falling from the sky that proceed to maul everyone... I may unban druids for that...

[Jlerpy]

It is certainly awesome in theory. In practice, with a group of four other players, it just has the ability to take over many combat encounters while the other player sit idly by and watch the druid do just stupid things. Note the Wizard in *theory* has this ability and then some(As do most spell casters), but with the groups I play with they generally don't have such a large impact as that. Druids do it without even trying to do it. They just turn into a bear, sick their bear on someone, and summon more bears reaching critical bear-mass leading to a bear-plosion.

I'm under no illusions that they're balanced, but before, I also didn't think they were cool.


That said, I think I want to make the "Bear Storm" spell that essentially is Meteor Storm but replace meteors with ravenous bears falling from the sky that proceed to maul everyone... I may unban druids for that...

A variant of Elemental Substitution, perhaps?

[TheMeMan]

I'm under no illusions that they're balanced, but before, I also didn't think they were cool.


Ah, I see. Druid's coolness hits critical mass at the exact moment they do their tricks for the first time. The novelty of my ridiculous statement wears off exceedingly quickly after that. I did play in a campaign where a player played a Druid and did that every single encounter he could; it was funny the first time but got really old really fast. The same player is an off again/on again player in my current campaign, and after getting the "No" on the druid, went with Cleric with the Animal domain. Was being cheeky I guess.



A variant of Elemental Substitution, perhaps?

Probably would work. Although if I were to go that route, it could lead to some interesting other possibilities with other spells. Not sure exactly what would be done, but it could be fun to do.

I need to ponder this.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Chain Bears? Instead of arcs of electricity, you simply attach rabid bears to people.

[TheMeMan]

Chain Bears? Instead of arcs of electricity, you simply attach rabid bears to people.

Or Bearball, which creates a burst of bears from a single point that maul everyone in their path (Non-controllable, of course). Wall of Bears, which should be fairly self explanatory.

You know what, this may just need to be a metamagic feat of some sort that replaces an energy type with "Bears".

[hymer]

Sounds like my next house rule set will have to include the Elemental Plane of Bear. Energy applicable would be Bear. Any spell that grants Resistance to Bear would clearly be overpowered.

[CombatOwl]

Personally, i dont like all the No buttons in 3.5 I change mind blank (And there similiar class features and feats) to a flat +15 on mind affects and divinations. Its a big enough number your still basically immune, but if someone is really trying they can get you

Do you also change True Seeing? Because it also shuts down large sets of spells. Like the entire illusion school.


I outright ban AMF, if you get a wizard in amf its game over. One spell destroys entire groups of classes

OTOH, if your wizard is actually getting shut down by an AMF, he's not much of a wizard. Seriously, it's a 10' emanation. That's about the easiest area type to deal with in the game. Keep in mind that you can still; use conjured objects, use telekinesis, use prismatic effects, walls of force, called creatures, etc. Note; elemental orb spells work fine against targets under AMF. AMF also suppresses friendly magic, including items.

AMF is not hard to deal with. One or two strategically placed prismatic walls (or walls of force) make it a complete non-issue. At the very least it takes the AMF (and its caster) out of the fight for a couple of rounds.

[Keneth]

I now want to give my druid bear-chucks. :smallbiggrin:


Sounds like my next house rule set will have to include the Elemental Plane of Bear.

http://shrani.si/f/3m/H9/4QrVQTdz/1361212136113.jpg

[Kazyan]

You know what, this may just need to be a metamagic feat of some sort that replaces an energy type with "Bears".

You can get halfway there with the Spell Thematics feat, from PGtF.

[jedipotter]

That said, I think I want to make the "Bear Storm" spell that essentially is Meteor Storm but replace meteors with ravenous bears falling from the sky that proceed to maul everyone... I may unban druids for that...

the ability to call forth a deadly storm of bears. You may launch four 2' diameter spheres at any targets within 400 feet plus 25 feet per character level. On a successful range touch attack, the sphere explodes and deals 2d6 bludgeoning damage (no save). On a miss, the sphere instead explodes somewhere within the target's square and deals no damage.

From each explosion, 6d6 dire bears emerge. They are all pissed off and will attack the nearest non-bear immediately, though they never attack you. The bears stick around for 1 minute per character level, or until you dismiss them as a free action.

[Tevesh]

If you make a Living Spell of Bear Storm, ****'s going to get real.

Its an Ooze Bear that punches people with Bear Fists that Explode into Bears.

Bears.

[Maginomicon]

the ability to call forth a deadly storm of bears. You may launch four 2' diameter spheres at any targets within 400 feet plus 25 feet per character level. On a successful range touch attack, the sphere explodes and deals 2d6 bludgeoning damage (no save). On a miss, the sphere instead explodes somewhere within the target's square and deals no damage.

From each explosion, 6d6 dire bears emerge. They are all pissed off and will attack the nearest non-bear immediately, though they never attack you. The bears stick around for 1 minute per character level, or until you dismiss them as a free action.
Stephen Colbert would have a heart attack. (Or should I say, Stephen Colbear. :smallamused: )

[ellindsey]

If you make a Living Spell of Bear Storm, ****'s going to get real.

Its an Ooze Bear that punches people with Bear Fists that Explode into Bears.

Bears.

Call it Summon Bearnado.

[Jlerpy]

I now want to give my druid bear-chucks. :smallbiggrin:



http://shrani.si/f/3m/H9/4QrVQTdz/1361212136113.jpg

"Nat 20! Bear Burst!"