Character Death

[Haelfyr]

Hey, I'm a newish DM, and was wondering what is the best way to handle the possibility of character death in-game. Is it better to only allow characters to die in extraordinary circumstances, or is it better to go with a less "chosen protagonist" approach and make the players reroll or raise characters? One of the issues with my particular group is that the understanding of the game (we use pathfinder) varies wildly amongst the members. Some have the rules down pat, while others barely know enough to get by. Any input from more experienced DMs/players would be very welcome!

[Keneth]

Characters die. It's not only possible, it's inevitable. How you wish to handle that is up to the group. Discuss it with your players fist, so you know what kind of game they want to play in, and they know exactly what to expect.

[Emperor Tippy]

What level is the party?

Under level 7 or so the PC's are certainly noteworthy but they aren't irreplaceable so as long as you avoid destiny related plots and the like a PC dying basically just means "erase the name on your sheet, write a new one in, change what you want, rejoin the party next time they are in town (or earlier if appropriate)".

Above that point the party should have organic access to one or more methods of raising the dead and then death just becomes a minor annoyance.

If you have made it to 10th level without dying at least once then you are benefiting from divine intervention or truly astonishing luck.

By level 20, well I've played games where it's more convenient to just kill you and then true resurrect you next round than it is to heal you.

Death is only final for commoners and plebeians in D&D.

[Haelfyr]

Okay. Most of our campaigns thus far have been pretty low level. Generally under level 7. As I said, I'm fairly new, but as far as I can remember, there don't seem many ways to easily resurrect low level characters.

[Sir Chuckles]

Okay. Most of our campaigns thus far have been pretty low level. Generally under level 7. As I said, I'm fairly new, but as far as I can remember, there don't seem many ways to easily resurrect low level characters.

There are not. It's expensive and time consuming, and lord help you if the nearest diamond or town with a 9th level Cleric is more than day/CL away.
And many players don't like the "side effects" of Reincarnate. And even then, it's 1k and a 7th level Druid.

Hence why low level characters, when killed, erase their name, change weapons, and sometimes finagle around with their race and feats.

If characters aren't dying at low level, be it from them jumping to a fight they couldn't win or accidents (What do you mean grappling hooks don't come with rope!?!), you might be pulling too many punches.
If PCs aren't dying at mid levels, meh.
If PCs aren't dying at high levels, it's either because you're not throwing enough Illithid at them, or they're really well optimized.

Conversely, if characters are dying at low level, it's to be expected.
If they're dying at mid level, it can be attributed to incompetence (Or you being harsh. I get that one a lot).
And if they're dying at high level, they probably deserved it and it'll be trivial. Second to last panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html)

[luthais]

Kind of tangent to the topic, but I recently rerolled my warlock into a warblade. When asked to describe the way the lock dies, I simply said he didn't. My new character knocked him out coming out of the tavern, and sold him to slavers for a tidy profit. Less messy, more money.

[Jgosse]

Okay. Most of our campaigns thus far have been pretty low level. Generally under level 7. As I said, I'm fairly new, but as far as I can remember, there don't seem many ways to easily resurrect low level characters.

This is what I do.
Boss or important battle a player may die it happens in all stories.
Random or meaningless battle I tend to fudge things to help save the character( who wants to die do to a lucky goblin spear). Unless they do it to them selves. If a player does something stupid then they are fair game it is a lesson. take this one my players entered a room with a medium modded white dragon he was a optional mini boss(no wings extra legs) one player who did not have a straight line double moved and just stopped in front of the dragon and stood there. dragons first turn and one full attack later I had a pile of player bits on the floor.

[Blackjackg]

Characters die. It's not only possible, it's inevitable.
That's really not so universal. In the six or seven long-running D&D campaigns I've played in or run, I could count the number of player character deaths on the fingers of one hand. Some games aren't enhanced by high lethality, and a DM is well within their rights to softball some encounters or even fudge a die roll or two in order to make sure everyone is having as much fun as possible.

I agree that talking it over with your players is a good idea, but not strictly necessary. For the first few sessions, give your players softball encounters that don't pose much real threat, then give them a challenging one that will really tax them. See how they react to the actual threat-- that will tell you who is okay with a character death, and who isn't.

Of course, easy access to raises and reincarnates makes the whole concept less problematic, but still...

[ArcturusV]

I dunno, the question of how to handle death at lower levels is.... a big part of table culture. At certain points, character death doesn't matter too much. If the campaign is about stopping some archdevil from kicking the world's ass and generally making sure everyone has a bad time, it doesn't matter if you're playing as Moonbeam the Elf or his replacement Haggar the Dwarven Drunk, you'd still have organic motivation, still a reason to go out and do it, etc.

It becomes a bigger problem and more of a "Well, the plot is ruined because Hank died" problem at higher levels. Because the plots that tend to be ruined by it are plots that are PC centric. And just by the nature of DnD you tend not to get PC centric plots until around level 9-12 when players are doing things like taking over baronies, or figuring out their legacy, or finally have enough power and resources to go for their lifeline goals, etc.

But in any case? I wouldn't suggest softballing or fudging things. If you're the only guy who has a handle on the rules, you can get away with it. But as you mentioned with your players the system mastery is hit and miss, all over the place.

The thing is... as much as death can mess up a player's day... taking it out as an option messes up their month. Here's what I mean. DnD is geared towards Adventure gaming in general. Delving into dangerous ruins, fighting terrifying monsters, risking life and limb for heroic cause and/or treasures. Part of what makes that exciting, storyline wise, is the risk of failure. Victory feels good because you overcame the odds. Loss strikes you emotionally and upsets players not because they have to spend 15 minutes or more rerolling a character, but because it marks the end of a saga they were getting into. Without loss, and death being the classic example of loss... you can't win either. There's no triumph against adversity when a player realizes that they were never at risk to start with.

So if you know the rules better than they do, you can fudge things that they're not aware that you fudged. But if they know the rules, they'll know you fudged. And that little thought will crawl in the back of their head "... I can't lose, he won't let me..." which can be disastrous. It removes the dramatic tension from the game, and the adventure genre, and tends to turn it into Monty Haul style campaigns where they're just waiting to see what deals the DM is cutting for them, knowing no matter what they'll walk away winning the prize.

[dehro]

From a player, who just lost his character's, perspective... Talk it over with the players and go with the most fun option.

My character had died once already and was brought back. The plot so far would have seen him face of with one of the BBEG's henchmen, his arch-enemy. Then he went and brought his handy haversack in the sorceress's pocket dimension. Don't do that. It leads to missing limbs and gythianki stormtrooper invasions.
So the DG is going to have to rewrite half the main plot, and I won't get to play the face-off with "my" enemy.. But bringing my PC back from the dead again, aside from a 2 levels lag on the main team and a complete lack of anything beyond underwear,not to mention my General suckyness at playing him, was starting to feel contrived.. He's guilty of accidentally causing yet another world domination hungry faction to emerge. Why would his angry buddies want to revive him, when he got what he deserved?
So I'm rolling for a new character.

[Raven777]

The thing is... as much as death can mess up a player's day... taking it out as an option messes up their month. Here's what I mean. DnD is geared towards Adventure gaming in general. Delving into dangerous ruins, fighting terrifying monsters, risking life and limb for heroic cause and/or treasures. Part of what makes that exciting, storyline wise, is the risk of failure. Victory feels good because you overcame the odds. Loss strikes you emotionally and upsets players not because they have to spend 15 minutes or more rerolling a character, but because it marks the end of a saga they were getting into. Without loss, and death being the classic example of loss... you can't win either. There's no triumph against adversity when a player realizes that they were never at risk to start with.

I respectfully disagree. In my experience, for some players, loosing a character they invested themselves in is never satisfactory. The saga, the part of the quote I bolded, is roleplaying's most compelling draw. That you can live as a strong, organic character on an epic journey. It should not be shattered. A character's loss can be pretty distressing because it brutally interrupts the epic. A player might not want to play as another guy. She might want to play as her guy. Who does the DM thinks he his to deny that? What other game does that?

A game should aim to challenge, never to frustrate. This is why the overwhelming majority of video games, the most popular interactive entertainment medium, use checkpoints or reloads. However, since D&D demands a continuous narrative, I surmise there are still other ways to convey failure. Letting the enemy win, changing the realm's statu quo, should be what happens. Death should be a speed bump, not and end, so that a player's character's story can continue, because these character are ultimately who the story should be about.

[Keneth]

In the six or seven long-running D&D campaigns I've played in or run, I could count the number of player character deaths on the fingers of one hand.

And yet, there were deaths. Ergo, nothing wrong with my statement.

While a DM is free to do whatever they want, in a RAW game with sufficiently challenging encounters, characters will die.

[Haelfyr]

Hmm. Okay. Thanks for the input so far, but the general consensus seems to be that it would be better to not pull punches. One of the reasons I've been sort of hesitant to kill characters was that our group lives across the state. We don't really get to play too much. So even though our group isn't at super high levels, they've had a long timeframe to grow attached to the characters. I'll definitely talk it over with the group, and get their opinions.

[Vaz]

Perhaps an OOC warning and followed by a run in with the BBEG who after "worfing" around an NPC or the party and showing how outmatched they are, tells them to not mess him around in future or he WILL kill them (or offer them a job, in place of killing them).

[Amphetryon]

Talk with the Players. Find out what kind of game they want to play, be it "high lethality," "death only happens from bad luck/stupidity/plot," or "kid gloves." See if what they want is compatible with what you want to run. If so. . . do that.

[Tevesh]

In my experience, Players only die to their own mistakes barring SoD fights.

If you don't want that, do not throw the iconic monsters at them. i.e. Medusa, Beholders, Illithids, Basilisks, Aboleths, Colossal Scorpions, etc. All of these creatures induce a Saving Throw roll that might kill a PC if they roll poorly.

The deck is already stacked in their favour. Don't try to kill them and only they will be the cause of their own deaths. If that's the case, deal with it.

I usually ask if they wish to continue playing that character. If yes, then they figure out a way to get Ress'd. If not, they roll something new.