Nystul's Magic Aura and Deception

[TheDarkSaint]

I've got an idea for an NPC love interest for a character in my game with particularly low wisdom that he roleplays well.

I'm thinking of having her as a midlevel Beguiler who has selected Nystul's Magic Aura and Miser's Envy as her Advanced learning skills.

The premise behind her is that she uses Nystul's, Hypnotism and Miser's Envy to sell "magic" items and she's going to try and drag the parties dopey, love/lust struck sorcerer into some complicated shenanigans.

The problem I'm having is the Beguiler feels really....powerful. The large spell list, combat prowess and general power level would enable her to control, suggest and manipulate powerful people and wouldn't need to rely on such minor crimes. (relative)

I'm wondering if I should have her as a 5th level sorcerer? Does any one have any ideas on what might fit this NPC concept a little better? She is to have no real combat value at all, mostly designed to deceive and get away with complicated scams and crimes.

[Story]

The premise behind her is that she uses Nystul's, Hypnotism and Miser's Envy to sell "magic" items and she's going to try and drag the parties dopey, love/lust struck sorcerer into some complicated shenanigans.


Noone ever tries to identify the items she's selling? I guess it could work in a low magic setting.

As far as people ruling through mind control, Mindbender and Thrallherd fit the theme, though they're a bit higher level.

If you want to go the silly route, you could just make her an Aboleth that bluffs everyone into thinking she's human.

[Anxe]

My rule is that people are aware of being magically compelled after the fact. I've got a beguiler in my campaign, but if he pulls too many tricks, the police will hunt him down.

Also, if a person walks up to one of the shopkeepers and casts a spell, get the others in the shop involved. There's bound to be an apprentice or two in there.

[Aharon]

Why give her more power than neccessary? The scamming works just as well with Nystul's Aura only. She might not get prices as high as when it's used in conjunction with miser's envy, but so what? If she sells nonmagic stuff as magic, she still makes thousands of gp profit per deal. So just make her a Beguiler 1, it's enough to pull of the trick and you have a good reason why she doesn't just take over.

[Urpriest]

The problem I'm having is the Beguiler feels really....powerful. The large spell list, combat prowess and general power level would enable her to control, suggest and manipulate powerful people and wouldn't need to rely on such minor crimes. (relative)


So to clarify, because others seem to be confused about this: the problem is not "the beguiler is too powerful" in general, but rather "the beguiler is too powerful to need to scam people for gold, she could make much more profit doing other things".

If that's the issue, I recommend a hefty dose of kleptomania. Basically, you want this character to fill the "crazy, no good for you girlfriend" role already. It's consistent with such a character to scam people not because she needs the money, but because she has fun/feels compelled to do it. Think about the number of celebrities caught shoplifting and you'll get the mentality.

[TheDarkSaint]

@Urpriest, that's some good points.


As for the Identify problem, I think I've worked out a away around that. It costs money and takes time. If she is going to seedier shops with an item that she claims she "really needs to get rid of for cash", there might be fewer questions asked.

I don't mind her drifting from town to town to stay ahead of the law. Makes for a good reoccurring irritation.

I'm also thinking of having her use Hypnotize to implant suggestions to buy the item as well as misers misery. Hypnotize, if they fail their will, they won't remember being spelled and Misers Misery is for the quick sale so she can get away before people come to their senses.

I plan on having her not as a great theif, often getting caught. She doesn't need to be good at what she does, but have a motivation behind it as well as motivations to do what she is doing and not look for more power.

[Story]

As for the Identify problem, I think I've worked out a away around that. It costs money and takes time.

Not with an Artificer's Monocle. Which all but the very smallest shops are going to have, since it's pretty much essential for business.

If the shopkeeper has Wizard/Cleric/etc. levels, they'll probably cast Dispel Magic on everything too, just to be extra sure.

[Deophaun]

Any casting of detect magic by someone who is also trained in spellcraft is going to also be a problem. The character is one DC 21 spellcraft check away from being found out.

Edit: The artificer's monocle requires a Will save to get past magic aura. If the caster is able to boost her save DC, it shouldn't be much of an issue if trying to fool an average merchant.

[Jack_Simth]

Any casting of detect magic by someone who is also trained in spellcraft is going to also be a problem. The character is one DC 21 spellcraft check away from being found out.

Ah, but for that skill check you have to be able to see or detect the effects of the spell (so no figuring out there is someone invisible around with a DC 22 Spellcraft check unless the person is moving stuff). Magic Aura explicitly tricks things that ID magical auras, and there's no other effect to observe.


Edit: The artificer's monocle requires a Will save to get past magic aura. If the caster is able to boost her save DC, it shouldn't be much of an issue if trying to fool an average merchant.
This, however, is true. Of course, the trick is figuring out what stats to use for your average merchant that deals in magical items.

[Snowbluff]

Any casting of detect magic by someone who is also trained in spellcraft is going to also be a problem. The character is one DC 21 spellcraft check away from being found out.

Edit: The artificer's monocle requires a Will save to get past magic aura. If the caster is able to boost her save DC, it shouldn't be much of an issue if trying to fool an average merchant.

A sufficient bluff check and a weapon property that match's Magic Aura's school would let the shopkeeper not bother with a spellcraft.

[Story]

This, however, is true. Of course, the trick is figuring out what stats to use for your average merchant that deals in magical items.

Personally, I'd make them all Artificers, but in a more standard setting they'd probably just be Experts.

[Deophaun]

A sufficient bluff check and a weapon property that match's Magic Aura's school would let the shopkeeper not bother with a spellcraft.
Huh? The merchant casts detect magic and makes the DC 21 spellcraft check, and knows it's Nystul's magic aura that's causing the effect.

Now the merchant gets a +20 to his Sense Motive check (assuming the lie isn't ruled to be flat out unbelievable). On top of that, the bluff check is only going to last for 1 round (a rule that most people forget). You better a) have a darn good disguise b) cast teleport right after you get the money and c) make sure there's no way for the item to be traced back to you, assuming you make the transaction in the round that you successfully made the bluff check (I don't know about you, but in my games, anyone trading objects worth hundreds or thousands of gold are trained in Sense Motive and like to interact with partners for at least a minute to make the DC 20 hunch check).

[Snowbluff]

Well, it takes rounds to detect what is going one.

Round 1: Item detects as magical. *Bonus of bluff for it appearing magical*

Readied action: "Oh, yeah it's magical." *rolls bluff*

Unless the shopkeep has a reason to believe and adventurer would be more likely to sell a nonmagical item over a faked one, you have a bonus, not a penalty.

Or, you can put up another bluff. "I use magic aura to hide how expensive these items are. Wizards like to steal these things from me." Which is quite reasonable.

Also, bluffs do not last for one round. They last for at least one round. A rule people often forget.

[Deophaun]

Round 1: Item detects as magical. *Bonus of bluff for it appearing magical*

Readied action: "Oh, yeah it's magical." *rolls bluff*
Of course it detects as magical. You are trying to sell a magic item.

Or, you can put up another bluff. "I use magic aura to hide how expensive these items are. Wizards like to steal these things from me." Which is quite reasonable.
Except that would only be true if you were using magic aura to hide it's magic aura, not change its school (which detect magic + Spellcraft would not detect). So no, it's not reasonable at all.

Also, bluffs do not last for one round. They last for at least one round. A rule people often forget.
No.

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less)

[Snowbluff]

It say at least. Literally a few words before the part you had in bold. *facepalm*

[Ibenadar]

No, Deophaun is wrong, there is no rule that says a bluff check only lasts a round.

Read the statement again:

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less)

Now read it again:

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less)

Doesn't say "only 1 round or less" or "a maximum of one round"; furthermore if we read the actual entire sentence at SRD20, it reads.

"A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less) or believes something that you want it to believe."

And here is the full text on Sense Motive retries from SRD20

"Try Again

No, though you may make a Sense Motive check for each Bluff check made against you. "

Deophaun, I hereby state that you fail your bluff check, or more to the point, somebody's Sense Motive could also do with a buff and re-roll :tongue:

[Chronos]

Quoth Deophaun:

Huh? The merchant casts detect magic and makes the DC 21 spellcraft check, and knows it's Nystul's magic aura that's causing the effect.
Well, he would, except that the item has Nystul's Magic Aura cast on it. The whole point of that spell is that it fools Detect Magic. If you want it to look like a +3 sword, then Detect Magic will give exactly the same result as if it were a +3 sword.

[Greenish]

Personally, I'd make them all Artificers, but in a more standard setting they'd probably just be Experts.Compromise at Magewright? :smalltongue: