ECL vs CL question: Epic

[Xuldarinar]

A simple question that examines the difference between character level and effective character.

Lets say you were to have a character with a level adjustment of +3 (For instance, a Half-Dragon Human). Upon reaching Character Level 18, they are viable for a feat, as is normal for that level. Because their ECL is 21, are they considered an epic character and therefore can take epic feats?

[Karnith]

The character can select an epic feat. The character qualifies as an epic character, per DMG p. 209 (which doesn't appear in the SRD, as far as I can tell), and epic feats may be selected whenever an epic character gains a new feat, again per DMG p. 209.

[Clistenes]

What if you have removed your LA paying XP? For example, a Half-fey has LA +2, but it can buy off its LA paying XP when reaching its sixth and ninth levels.

So...when it reaches class level 18...does it count as Epic for the purpose of taking Epic feats?

[Urpriest]

What if you have removed your LA paying XP? For example, a Half-fey has LA +2, but it can buy off its LA paying XP when reaching its sixth and ninth levels.

So...when it reaches class level 18...does it count as Epic for the purpose of taking Epic feats?

No, you actually have to have the LA, buyback explicitly reduces it.

[Karnith]

No, you actually have to have the LA, buyback explicitly reduces it.
Additionally, even if the character hadn't bought off the LA from Half-Fey, 18+2=20, while you need to be 21st level (or ECL 21) to qualify as an epic character.

[OldTrees1]

What happens in the following case?:
Human Half Dragon [LA +3]
Gains 9 levels of Barbarian
LA buyoff 1 [Current LA +2]
Acquires a +1LA template (Mineral Warrior) [Current LA +3]
Gains 9 more levels of Barbarian
[Currently 18HD, LA +3 and qualifying for a second LA buyoff]
Takes an Epic feat
LA buyoff 2 [Current LA +2]
[Currently 18HD, LA +2 and needs 6 more character levels for a third LA buyoff]

TLDR: What if an ECL 21 character uses LA buyoff to become non epic after taking an Epic feat?

[Urpriest]

What happens in the following case?:
Human Half Dragon [LA +3]
Gains 9 levels of Barbarian
LA buyoff 1 [Current LA +2]
Acquires a +1LA template (Mineral Warrior) [Current LA +3]
Gains 9 more levels of Barbarian
[Currently 18HD, LA +3 and qualifying for a second LA buyoff]
Takes an Epic feat
LA buyoff 2 [Current LA +2]
[Currently 18HD, LA +2 and needs 6 more character levels for a third LA buyoff]

TLDR: What if an ECL 21 character uses LA buyoff to become non epic after taking an Epic feat?

I believe if you're going to use LA buyoff at a given level, it's the first step of the leveling process, due to the word immediately somewhere in the description. So you can't pick the feat before doing LA buyoff.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Then he's no longer an epic character and no longer qualifies for that epic feat, so he loses all of his benefits until he once again qualifies for it.

I'd just like to point out that basing it on ECL instead of character level is often a disadvantage for noncasters. You're stuck taking the epic attack bonus that many levels sooner, and that loss of BAB may prevent you from ever reaching +16 and four attacks/round.



I believe if you're going to use LA buyoff at a given level, it's the first step of the leveling process, due to the word immediately somewhere in the description. So you can't pick the feat before doing LA buyoff.

You would still gain that level, and part of gaining a level is picking your feat. He has to be character level 18 before buying it off, so that level is gained normally including its feat.