[D&D 3.5] LA -- Templates and Playability

[Kevingway]

Hey guys,

I've had many debates with myself over whether or not any creature that, at any point in time, possessed an LA -- template can be playable.

I know that these templates are designed for creatures not suitable as players (same as those templates that don't list LA at all, and by assumption, would naturally default to LA --); however, if these creatures were, at a later point, given an intelligence score/whatever they needed to become a playable character, would they actually be allowed as playable? In other words, because they possess that LA -- template, will they ever be allowed as playable characters?

Having possessed an LA -- template before becoming playable seems cheesy, as templates such as Sentry Ooze could tremendously buff your character before gaining the appropriate intelligence score of 3 for playability. I'm just curious whether LA -- means unplayable forever or unplayable in its current state.

My main reason for asking this question is due to Living Spell being an LA -- template, and a certain template stacking allowing this Living Spell to later gain an intelligence score and thus become playable.

[KillianHawkeye]

Only if whatever happens makes them lose that template. If they still have it, they are not playable.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The tricks you're referring to are not anything that can be considered a resource for players. Monsters and templates with LA — are a DM's tools. As a player you really don't have any business trying any tricks at all with them.

If you want to integrate living spells onto a PC, make a Cleric with the Slime domain and talk to your DM about using your class ability to rebuke/command slimes such as living spells to make them your minions.

[Urpriest]

To put it in another context: Animals have LA --. Lycanthropes are made from a base creature and a base animal. However, Lycanthropes have LA. This is because the Lycanthrope template is designed to take an LA -- input and produce something with meaningful LA. So you'd need a template designed to do that sort of thing, and not something like Sentry Ooze that's merely designed to make interesting NPCs.

[Kevingway]

To put it in another context: Animals have LA --. Lycanthropes are made from a base creature and a base animal. However, Lycanthropes have LA. This is because the Lycanthrope template is designed to take an LA -- input and produce something with meaningful LA. So you'd need a template designed to do that sort of thing, and not something like Sentry Ooze that's merely designed to make interesting NPCs.

Interesting. So as long as the eventual character gains a level adjustment through one template, it could then become playable despite the earlier applications of, say, Sentry Ooze?

[Urpriest]

Interesting. So as long as the eventual character gains a level adjustment through one template, it could then become playable despite the earlier applications of, say, Sentry Ooze?

Only if it's a template that has some explicit way to deal with one of its components being LA --.

Lycanthrope would sort of work, but the rules for alternate form mean that you probably can't choose a base form with templates (and you'd need to turn your Ooze into an Animal, which is tricky). Tauric and Symbiotic are the go-to templates for this sort of thing, because both are vaguely worded and incredibly cheesy. Incarnate Construct was arguably supposed to do something like this but it was oddly handled so it probably doesn't.

Ideally (if you were homebrewing) you'd build a template that took into account the base creature's traits to determine an LA.

[Kevingway]

I think I know what you're talking about (hybrid creatures that have two separate components of any of the base types for the purpose of creating one playable character), but let me give an example of what I had in mind:

Silent Image (or Dancing Lights for a lesser effect) --> Living Spell (LA --) --> (Sentry Ooze (LA --)) --> Dustform (LA +2) --> (Soulfused Construct (LA +2)) --> Incarnate Construct (LA -2)

I placed Sentry Ooze and Soulfused Construct in parenthesis because they're not vital to the plan, but excluding those (including them if they're possible), this character would come out as a humanoid with an LA +0. He's used one template that had an LA --, which is Living Spell, but the rest is deemed "playable." Would not every other composite template cancel out its nonplayability, or would it only have to be brought into play through its inclusion in a Tauric/other 1+1=1 template?