How would Mages use Tech?

[Maquise]

I am GM'ing situation where a magically-gifted race may acquire a repository of knowledge from a much more technologically advanced species, and I am trying to figure out how they would use it. This is an Evil race, (serpentfolk specifically), so they don't have many moral qualms.

Magitech options are good, just as long as they are logical. The race lives in the Underdark.

[Ravens_cry]

How advanced are we talking? Stuff possible now or is at least possible, or more like Clarke's Magic?

[Maquise]

How advanced are we talking? Stuff possible now or is at least possible, or more like Clarke's Magic?

That's a bit of the issue I'm getting at. The race the repository comes from is advanced enough to travel interplanetary/interdimensionally, but within the laws of nature in their cosmos. The bit about the difference between interplanetary and inter-dimensional travel is also blurry, because of how the (Pathfinder) planescape works.

[Hamste]

What is their culture like? Some cultures would pick it up easily and use it a lot as it has unlimited uses per day as the expense of money annd energy. Others would be more traditional and hold onto their magic ways. It also depends on exactly how many are wizards and who is leading the nation.

[The Glyphstone]

1) What are their aims/goals as a culture?
2) How do they use magic to accomplish these goals?
3) Can the tech they are receiving accomplish those goals easier than via magic?
4) Are there things their magic cannot do?
5) Can the tech they are receiving allow them to do these things?
6) Is it in the interest of the mages to retain their monopoly on power, even if this harms or limits their culture as a whole?


Answer these questions in order and you'll have most of your problem solved.

[Captnq]

Why, make plot coupons!

If it's an NPC thing, and they're just in it for the EVULZ, then it works anyways you want, requires biometric scanners and magical locks and what not to use so players can't use they stuff, then just make up a bunch of cool powers.

Just don't make up the powers AFTER play works. Once you use a power, don't change it. If the X-R87-Sazoblaster fires exploding robosnakes. It can't later fire a stunbeam.

[Maquise]

1) What are their aims/goals as a culture?
2) How do they use magic to accomplish these goals?
3) Can the tech they are receiving accomplish those goals easier than via magic?
4) Are there things their magic cannot do?
5) Can the tech they are receiving allow them to do these things?
6) Is it in the interest of the mages to retain their monopoly on power, even if this harms or limits their culture as a whole?


Answer these questions in order and you'll have most of your problem solved.

1. They are an ancient empire that was forced underground by the rise of humans ages past, and have lost much of their ancient magical knowledge. Their goal is to regain this.
2. As stated, much of their magic is lost. More specifically, their magic is primarily in-born, sorcerous talent. Their time underground has caused most of their race to devolve into magic less degenerates, ruled by a sorcerous nobility.
3. The tech isn't necessarily mundane, but if they don't have magic, they need tech.
4 and 5 are sort of non-applicable, but for 6, the nobility will definitely wish to maintain a high level if control.

[ArcturusV]

Well, unless it is a multi-mode weapon system. :smallwink:

As I sit down and consider this... my gut reaction is almost "not at all" or "Not very soon".

Because here's the thing. Typically in fiction this sort of situation starts off as Black Box Technology. The apes, or rather snakes in your case, get some stuff that is faaaaaar beyond their ken, but they learn through trial and error "Hey, if I push this, that thing happens" and starts to use it without really understanding it. Eventually brilliant minds get the hard field data, revise theories, improvise, take the "logical" conclusions of the Black Box Technology and create their own versions which may or may not be anything like the precursor technologies, etc.

But with an Archive? I dunno. It's different. They don't have hard examples that they can use. And the cultural differences between magic users and tech users means that even "Simple" things that a Tech Society might refer to at that level (Every child knows about superconductors, optical computers, particle physics, etc, etc, etc) means it would be hard to just read things and understand. You wouldn't have the basis for understanding. So they probably wouldn't be able to replicate any of the technology, it's just too far out of their realm of understanding.

What they MIGHT be able to do, is after decades/centuries with this archive available, have some of the mages start applying some of the basic scientific principles to their arcane workings. You want to take this really, really slowly. Thing slike that they learn a bit of metallurgy that they can apply which gives even mundane equipment they forge a bonus, normal items are effectively "masterwork", Masterwork items are doubled. Maybe things like various inlays and such that boost magical effects... like learning about good conductive metals that means their Shocking weapons deal +2d6 instead of +1d6 for the same enhancement bonus. Spells that exploit natural laws that they haven't known about previously, things like that.

It should be millenia of exposure to this archive before they even start to develop any real "advanced tech". They don't have the practical experience, the theoretical background, or the industrial base. They may never evolve some obvious advanced tech. Like take firearms. If this is some Magiocracy, where the magically gifted rule over the hordes of the mundane... they probably aren't going to want to develop high explosives, firearms, laser rifles, etc, etc, etc. Because those are weapons that are basically MUCH better for the mundane serfs than it is for them. They may learn from the archive (If it's historical as well as technological) that basically such things are the weapons of Freedom Fighters who throw down aristocrats and install republics and socialist government, etc. Probably not an aspect they're eager to explore.

[Prime32]

That's a bit of the issue I'm getting at. The race the repository comes from is advanced enough to travel interplanetary/interdimensionally, but within the laws of nature in their cosmos. The bit about the difference between interplanetary and inter-dimensional travel is also blurry, because of how the (Pathfinder) planescape works.Do you mean that they come from a different universe with different physical laws, or that you don't count magic as part of nature?

Why is their knowledge nonmagical? If they're that good at scientific research, and live in a universe where magic exists, wizard spellcasting should come easily to them. Even if you're ruling that all spellcasters require supernatural heritage like sorcerers and they don't have any, with travel tech that good they could easily bring in magic-users from outside.

[Maquise]

Do you mean that they come from a different universe with different physical laws, or that you don't count magic as part of nature?

Why is their knowledge nonmagical? If they're that good at scientific research, and live in a universe where magic exists, wizard spellcasting should come easily to them. Even if you're ruling that all spellcasters require supernatural heritage like sorcerers and they don't have any, with travel tech that good they could easily bring in magic-users from outside.

No, I mean their technology incorporates magic into it. The archive contains knowledge that doesn't have a distinction between magic and technology.

Magic as a learned art exists in this world, but the serpentfolk haven't developed it. The nobiles wouldn't need it, and they wouldn't want to share it.

[Radar]

The way I see it, they must first realise, what they actualy found. It all depends on the contents of the archives.

If it is just a collection of scrolls, tablets, books or things like that, it won't gather much attention from the most powerful families, since they are too busy with politics and powergames between themselves. Mundane folk will obviously have no time, resources or even right to ever read the archives, but some lower tier aristocrats might be more inclined to pursue other interests, since they have no chances to ever become powerful and noone pays attention to them. Some might be scholars trying to decipher those weird documents out of sheer boredom or academic interest. At some point they will realise, how useful those archives could be. They will also realise, that the more powerful families would want to grab all this newfound potential for themselves. Solution? Deception. Basicaly the scholars researching the archives would create a secret society devoted to unraveling the ancient mysteries in order to gain power. Longterm, they would prepare a powergrab, to officialy rule the whole empire, but in the meantime they need to hide their findings, or they will be squashed. Whatever they will create using this new knowledge, would have to be secretive and hard to notice.

If the archives contain magical artifacts (holographic displays, movement-activates lights, etc.), then most likely the most powerful families would try to explore the archives themselves prohibiting anyone else from entering. It would surely stir up internal conflicts and things could get violent within the ruling circles of society. Most valuable would be technologies to use against other casters (various forms of protection against magic, antimagic schackles and so on), mindcontroll (always a favorite in politics) and caster boosting items (metamagic rods, rings of wizardry, pearls of power etc.). Access to things like Psionic Chirurgery would rightfuly make all the evil sorcerers laugh maniacaly.

Either way, there would emerge a tradition of learned magic (it could be mixed with innate ability through classes like Ultimate Magus) or an increase of magic item production. One could even expect to see Artificers at some point. At any rate, all the new wonders would be made in a way preventing the mundanes from using it against their magicaly gifted masters.

[Maquise]

The archive is actually a single item, similar to a holocron.

[JoshuaZ]

This sounds something like The Road Not Taken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_story)).

So, technologies that might matter: nuclear weapons. Why, yes we can then use major creation to make the right sort of U-235/U-238 and all the other fun stuff. What about anti-matter? You may have just given them planet destroying technologies. You could just rule that these don't exist, but if they do...

[Kioras]

The archive is actually a single item, similar to a holocron.

What sort of time frame are we talking about?

A single item similar to a holocron would fall under control of a single person, so their actual views would play a strong influence in it. Are they personally conservative to change, are they wildly imaginative? Will they share the information or keep it themselves and power their own rise to god emperor of the race?

Maybe it might be easier to think if it is a Tippyverse holocron, and just apply the rules as a tuppyverse God King running your serpents then. It would be the easiest thing to see them doing.

[ArcturusV]

Sounds like as all the particulars come out, the real answer to this question, least based on some setting logic is "Not at all". The nobles would by nature be in charge of it. The peasants wouldn't know how to use it. And the nobles have really nothing to gain from it. Magic? They already have it. Science? They don't want to arm the populace and even out the edge they have over them. Seems like something they'd rather just lock away/destroy. It would probably have to take some "madman" NPC to really take it up and try to use it. The sort of psychopath that just wants to ruin everything and doesn't care.

[Radar]

Sounds like as all the particulars come out, the real answer to this question, least based on some setting logic is "Not at all". The nobles would by nature be in charge of it. The peasants wouldn't know how to use it. And the nobles have really nothing to gain from it. Magic? They already have it. Science? They don't want to arm the populace and even out the edge they have over them. Seems like something they'd rather just lock away/destroy. It would probably have to take some "madman" NPC to really take it up and try to use it. The sort of psychopath that just wants to ruin everything and doesn't care.
Yet, most nobles would probably jump at any opportunity to get more power. Having magic equal to other aristocrats is far less interesting, then having magic superior to any other. It would still take a specific person to actualy study it. We are talking about an evil society, so it should not be a problem to find an overambitious bastard, who doesn't care about potential dangers as long as he comes out on top.