What damage rolls qualify for knowledge devotion?

[Zanos]

So hitting with a melee weapon would get the bonus, clearly. I'm more interested in corner cases.

1. If I cast a spell that hits multiple times, does each damage roll get the damage bonus? Ex: Would scorching ray get (4d6+5) for each ray?

2. If I cast a spell that deals multiple damage types, does each damage type get the bonus? Ex: Burning blood does 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage. Would it deal (1d8+5) fire and (1d8+5) acid damage every round?

3. If I alter a spell with a metamagic feat that makes it deal split damage such as born of three thunders or corrupt spell, do I apply the damage roll bonus to each type? Ex: Does a corrupt fireball inflict (5d6+5) fire damage and (5d6+5) unholy damage?

4. If I cast a spell that inflicts ability damage, does the ability damage receive the bonus? Ex: Would cloudkill inflict (1d4+5) con damage each round?

[DarkWhisper]

So hitting with a melee weapon would get the bonus, clearly. I'm more interested in corner cases.

1. If I cast a spell that hits multiple times, does each damage roll get the damage bonus? Ex: Would scorching ray get (4d6+5) for each ray?

Yes, just as Point Blank Shot would apply to each ray; each ray requires an attack roll, so each one benefits.


2. If I cast a spell that deals multiple damage types, does each damage type get the bonus? Ex: Burning blood does 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage. Would it deal (1d8+5) fire and (1d8+5) acid damage every round?
I'd say no, just as a Flaming Longsword wouldn't deal 1d8+[Know.Dev.] and 1d6+[Know. Dev.] (Fire) on a hit; It'd deal 1d8+1d6(Fire) +[Know.Dev.].


3. If I alter a spell with a metamagic feat that makes it deal split damage such as born of three thunders or corrupt spell, do I apply the damage roll bonus to each type? Ex: Does a corrupt fireball inflict (5d6+5) fire damage and (5d6+5) unholy damage?

No.
Born of the three Thunders:
"with half its damage dealt as electricity damage and half dealt as sonic damage"
Corrupt Spell:
"half of the damage is unholy damage"

Both feats state "half its/the damage"; you add the bonus, then split the damage. (Or, if you prefer, split the damage, then add half the bonus to each portion).


4. If I cast a spell that inflicts ability damage, does the ability damage receive the bonus? Ex: Would cloudkill inflict (1d4+5) con damage each round?

This is RAI / DM Call territory.
I'd say no since the spell creates an effect which deals damage. The caster isn't dealing damage.

Ray of Stupidity, OTOH, I'd allow to deal bonus Int damage.

[The Trickster]

So hitting with a melee weapon would get the bonus, clearly. I'm more interested in corner cases.

1. If I cast a spell that hits multiple times, does each damage roll get the damage bonus? Ex: Would scorching ray get (4d6+5) for each ray?

2. If I cast a spell that deals multiple damage types, does each damage type get the bonus? Ex: Burning blood does 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage. Would it deal (1d8+5) fire and (1d8+5) acid damage every round?

3. If I alter a spell with a metamagic feat that makes it deal split damage such as born of three thunders or corrupt spell, do I apply the damage roll bonus to each type? Ex: Does a corrupt fireball inflict (5d6+5) fire damage and (5d6+5) unholy damage?

4. If I cast a spell that inflicts ability damage, does the ability damage receive the bonus? Ex: Would cloudkill inflict (1d4+5) con damage each round?

1). I would say no. By RAW, it is hard to say. But we can guess the RAI by looking at a similar ability. If we look at a warmage;


Warmage Edge (Ex): A warmage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to the amount of damage dealt. For instance, if a 1st-level warmage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals
1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 3 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class.
A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level warmage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the warmage's choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missiles are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, it deals this extra damage in each round.

Using this, I would guess that only the first ray gets the bonus.

2,3). Not sure, but using the logic from #1, I would say the bonus is only added once.

4). I would say no again. From the feat;


You then receive an insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against that creature type for the remainder of the combat. The amount of the bonus depends on your Knowledge check result, as given on the following table.


Since it talks about attack rolls and damage rolls at the same time, I would say that it only applies to abilities that use attack rolls (which cloudkill does not). Of course, by that logic, you could argue that, by RAW, Ray of Enfeeblement would get the buff, which I personally don't think was intended.

These are all opinions though. Take it as you will. :smalltongue:

Edit: I made a oopsie. I thought it was only one attack roll for scorching ray. In this case, it would depend on the spell. Magic Missle only adds the damage once, while each ray would get the bonus to attack. Not sure about each ray getting the damage though.

[FrznTear]

link to a similar discussion: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192778

1) There is a separate attack and damage roll for each so Knowledge devotion would apply for each.

Another thing to consider is magic missile which does not require an attack roll but has multiple damage rolls. It can be argued that Knowledge devotion only applies to things with both attack and damage rolls. I'd argue that each missile gets the bonus. Warmage specifically only get's the damage on the first hit, this feat does not.

2) I am pretty sure burning blood is a single damage roll, if a spell were worded takes 1d8 fire damage and then 1d8 acid damage then it would get the knowledge devotion boost on each. However since it does not say that the target takes 2d8 damage half of which is fire and half of which is acid there is still room to argue otherwise.

3) This is still a single damage roll, there is no way knowledge devotion gets applied more than once.

4) Is ability damage considered damage for purposes of this feat? A boost to ability damage is a scary thing.

However by RAW I think it might. Since ability damage can be multiplied on a critical hit it is reasonable that bonuses to damage apply as well.

[Fax Celestis]

By RAW, weaponlike spells that deal damage (including ability damage like ray of stupidity) that are given extra damage (like from Knowledge Devotion or Sneak Attack) deal additional damage as the same energy type. Ability damage functions a little differently: such abilities don't deal extra damage as ability damage, but instead as negative energy damage.

[Zanos]

By RAW, weaponlike spells that deal damage (including ability damage like ray of stupidity) that are given extra damage (like from Knowledge Devotion or Sneak Attack) deal additional damage as the same energy type. Ability damage functions a little differently: such abilities don't deal extra damage as ability damage, but instead as negative energy damage.
As I recall, that rule only applies to precision damage, which KnD is not.

I also don't see how you could require an attack roll for Knowledge Devotion to have an effect. It says you gain a bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, not only forms of attacks that have an attack roll and a damage roll.

[Fax Celestis]

You don't have to make an attack roll for Knowledge Devotion to work. However, bonus damage on an ability damage or energy drain effect is dealt in negative energy damage, not in additional ability damage or energy drain, except in the case of a critical hit with the spell or effect that inflicts those penalties.

[Darrin]

What about area effects? Assuming attack rolls and damage rolls are parsed separately, does Knowledge Devotion add damage to something like fireball?

[Zanos]

You don't have to make an attack roll for Knowledge Devotion to work. However, bonus damage on an ability damage or energy drain effect is dealt in negative energy damage, not in additional ability damage or energy drain, except in the case of a critical hit with the spell or effect that inflicts those penalties.

Precision Damage
Any weaponlike spell that can be used with precision damage, such as sneak attack, follows the normal rules for precision damage with a few alterations. Precision damage applies only in the round when the spell strikes—subsequent and continuing damage isn’t affected. Successful saving throws don’t affect precision damage unless the successful save negates the spell’s damage altogether. A successful precision damage attack with a weaponlike spell deals extra damage of the same type as the spell normally deals unless that spell deals ability damage or ability drain, or it bestows negative levels. Spells that fall into these categories instead deal extra hit point damage in the form of negative energy.

Are you referring to something other than this? Because this entry only refers to precision damage. Which, again, Knowledge Devotion is not stated to be, and is nothing like.

[Fax Celestis]

Did you come here for an answer, or did you come here to argue?

It's a gray area and there is no rule. The answer I provided is the closest approximation that the game has for a rule for your given situation: it is, frankly, not something the designers considered (even if they should have), and as such it does not have a definition as to how it works.

Feel free to let Knowledge Devotion inflict extra ability damage in your games, but if you come back later posting about how your game is completely broken, don't say I didn't tell you so.

[Zanos]

Did you come here for an answer, or did you come here to argue?

It's a gray area and there is no rule. The answer I provided is the closest approximation that the game has for a rule for your given situation: it is, frankly, not something the designers considered (even if they should have), and as such it does not have a definition as to how it works.

Feel free to let Knowledge Devotion inflict extra ability damage in your games, but if you come back later posting about how your game is completely broken, don't say I didn't tell you so.
I came for a RAW answer, and the bit in the RC does not provide one. You could have just said that it was a gray area with no clear answer, because I would prefer an answer that is as close to RAW as possible without relying on someone's personal interpretation for how it should function. The answer you provided was misleading, and you should have indicated that it was your interpretation of how it functions.

Legitimately sorry if I offended you.