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JoshuaZ
2013-11-10, 10:42 PM
Long ago, there was a young warmage in training, whose name has since been lost to time. In the course of his training, he discovered that he was able to use not just the spells that he had been trained to use, but also far darker magic. He gradually learned to harness this power in combination with his warmage skills. Eventually he found others with similar abilities and taught them as well. So was founded the Battle Necromancers. Now, centuries later, they continue their training, hiding within warmage academies, seeking out those with the correct necromantic talent and teaching them how to combine the skills.


Becoming a Battle Necromancer
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills:Knowledge(arcana) 8, Spellcraft(8), Knowledge(Religion) 2
Feats:Spell Focus(necromancy), Spell Focus(evocation)
Spellcasting:Able to cast a 2nd level spontaneous arcane spells.
Special: Must have the Charnel Touch and Warmage Edge class features.

Class Skills
The Battle Necromancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Ride (Dex), and Spellcraft (Int)

Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + int

Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Hidden in Plain Sight,Improved Charnel Touch, Necromantic Edge, Tradition|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Advanced Learning, Arcane Sensitivity, Defensive Training|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Soul Resonance, Lesser Traditional Training|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Advanced Learning, Life Shard|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Arcane Resonance, Meta-Evocative Necromancy, Traditional Training|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Advanced Learning|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Improved Arcane Resonance, Greater Traditional Training|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Advanced Learning|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Fast Metamagic|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Advanced Learning, Synergy, Tradition's Final Teachings|+1 level of prerequisite spellcasting classes[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A Battle Necromancer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

Spellcasting:At each new Battle Necromancer level except first level, the Battle Necromancer gains new spells per day and spells known as if advancing in level in both their dread necromancer and warmage classes, and increases their effective caster level for both. This does not includes gaining new spells from Advanced Learning spells, which is replaced with their own version of Advanced Learning detailed below. They do not advance any other class features from either class (Except where noted below).

Necromantic Edge(Ex): At first level, a Battle Necromancer learns to apply their warmage training in other contexts. A Battle Necromancer may apply their Warmage Edge to any necromancy spells they cast, even if the spell is not cast as a warmage spell. They also may apply their Warmage Edge to the the damage done by their Charnel Touch.

Hidden in Plain Sight(Ex):Battle Necromancer's often must keep the more unsavory aspects of their talents secret, often training surrounded by warmages who lack their ability or appreciation for the art of death magic. A Battle Necromancer may need to prevaricate or disguise their skills, and this gives them frequent training in lying or directing attention elsewhere. A Battle Necromancer gains a +2 bonus on any bluff check, which becomes a +4 bonus when the lie is related to necromancy (such as the Battle Necromancer's own talents). Additionally, when a Battle Necromancer casts a necromancy spell, they may choose to add slight flourishes to the gestures and changes in appearance to the manifestation of the spell, increasing the spellcraft DC to recognize the spell by 4.

Improved Charnel Touch: Levels of Battle Necromancer stack with levels of Dread Necromancer for determining the damage done by their Charnel Touch class feature.

Tradition(Ex): There are two primary traditions among Battle Necromancers. One tradition, the Tradition of Power, focuses on using their talents to make themselves the most effective and powerful spellcasters they can be. The other tradition, the Tradition of Retribution focuses on using their skills to deal with the threat that the undead represent to civilization, as well as the necromancers who recklessly create or wield them. These two traditions sometimes go by other names. Some members of the Tradition of Retribution refer to the Traditions of Light and Darkness, while some of the Tradition of Power refer to the other as the Tradition of Fools. How the two traditions arose is unclear as members of both traditions claim that their tradition is the original, with the other a weak bastardization.

At first level, a Battle Necromancer must decide which tradition they will follow. A follower of the Tradition of Power gains a +2 bonus into Knowledge(arcana) checks. A follower of the Tradition of Retribution gains a +2 bonus to Knowledge(Religion) checks related to the undead.

Arcane Sensitivity(Su): At second level, a Battle Necromancer develops an ability to sense magic similar to their own. They are immediately aware when an arcane spell from the necromancy or evocation schools is cast within 100 feet of them, and they gain a +2 bonus to spellcraft checks to recognize the exact spell when they see it being cast. This bonus also applies to conjuration spells which summon undead.

Defensive Training(Ex): At second level, a Battle Necromancer learns to defend themselves against their most likely foes. Followers of the Tradition of Power understand that the those with skills similar to their own are the most likely threat. They get a +2 bonus on saves against necromancy and evocation spells and spell-like abilities. Followers of the Tradition of Retribution understand that necromancers are a threat, but take a broader view, and do not focus on the threat posed by their own colleagues. They get a +2 bonus against necromantic
effects or any effects from an undead that extends from its type rather than class levels. So for example, a member of the Tradition of Retribution would apply their save against a ghoul's paralysis attack, but if that ghoul also had levels in wizard and cast a fireball, they would not get the bonus to the save against the fireball.

Advanced Learning: A Battle Necromancer learns how to combine their various types of innate magic more effectively, using to reach for powers that others lack. At second level, a Battle Necromancer pick one evocation or necromancy spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. The spell must be of level strictly lower than the highest level spell they can cast. They gain that spell as an additional spell known for all spontaneous arcane spellcasting class. At each subsequent even level, they choose another such spell.

Soul Resonance(Su): A Battle Necromancer learns to channel the energy of the dying through their magic to empower themselves. At third level, whenever they kill a living, sentient (intelligence at least 3) creature with an evocation spell, the next necromancy or evocation spell the Battle Necromancer casts has its caster level increased by 1, as long as they cast it before the end of their next turn. At sixth level, these bonuses goes up to +2, and at 9th level it goes up to +3. Alternatively, they may choose to forego this benefit to instead regain a spell slot of level at most half the total hit die of the the creature's killed. One may only gain one of these two benefits from any casting of an evocation spell, even if the spell kills multiple targets.

Lesser Traditional Training(Ex): At third level, a Battle Necromancer learns some of the first deep secrets of their Tradition. A follower of the Tradition of Power may all spells which summon undead as necromancy spells for all purposes that would benefit them (such as increased caster level from their Soul Resonance ability). Additionally, they may cast any spell from the Summon Undead line as a standard action. A Battle Necromancer of the Tradition of Retribution learns to drain residual necromantic energy from the undead and may activate their Soul Resonance class feature when they kill intelligent undead in addition to its usual use when killing intelligent, living creatures.

Arcane Resonance(Su): A Battle Necromancer learns to create a resonating effect that can selectively penetrate defenses.
Whenever they cast a necromancy or evocation spell that does some form of energy damage (sonic, fire, electricity, or cold) they may designate one target of the spell, or one being within the area of the spell. They learn instantly whether the target has any spell-like abilities or the ability to cast spells. If so, the spells ignores any energy resistance the target has.

Life Shard(Su): At 4th level, a Battle Necromancer learns to preserve some small amount of life essence from the foes they slay and use that life force to support their own. Whenever a Battle Necromancer uses their Soul Resonance ability and they have the spell False Life active, they may choose to add to its remaining duration additional hours equal to the number of hit die of the creature slain. This is in addition to whatever other benefits they would gain from their Soul Resonance class feature.

Meta-Evocative Necromancy(Su): At fifth level, a Battle Necromancer's picks a metamagic feat that they meet the prerequisites for. They are treated as having that feat for all spontaneous arcane spells that are either necromancy or evocation. They must still fulfill the usual requirements when casting a spell modified by that feat, such as increased spell slot level. They may change what metamagic feat this is if you spend 8 hours meditating. They are not treated as knowing this feat for any purposes for meeting prerequisites.

Traditional Training(Su): Followers of the Tradition of Power sometimes find it necessary to cast their more offensive spells close to their minions. Getting new minions would be expensive and inconvenient, and they have learned to deal with this. At fifth level, any undead summoned, animated, or created by a follower of the Tradition of Power gets a +2 bonus on their save against any evocation or necromancy spell cast by that Battle Necromancer. They are also is treated as having both evasion and mettle for such spells. A Battle Necromancer may choose to forgo this benefit if they wish.

A follower of the Tradition of Retribution learns to more effectively turn their spells against enemy undead. The save DC of evocation and necromancy spells they cast against enemy nonintelligent undead is increased by 2, and they get a +4 bonus to penetrate any spell resistance of enemy nonintelligent undead.

Improved Arcane Resonance(Su): At seventh level, when a Battle Necromancer uses their Arcane Resonance ability, they also learn if the being in question is capable of casting arcane spells. The being must make a will save (DC equal to the spell's save DC). If they fail, they lose one randomly chosen spell slot or prepared spell of their highest level, and the Battle Necromancer gains one extra spell slot one level lower than the spell slot drained. This extra spell slot can be used to cast a spell for any spontaneous arcane spellcasting class, but must be used within 1 hour of gaining it. If the spell slot gained would be of level higher than the highest spell slot normally available to the Battle Necromancer, they instead gain a spell slot of their highest level.

Additionally, if Battle Necromancer uses their Soul Resonance ability and has killed an arcane spellcaster, they may gain the benefits of Improved Arcane Resonance, as if they had killed the spellcaster, in addition to any other benefits they would gain from Soul Resonance.

Greater Traditional Training(Ex): At seventh level, a follower of the Tradition of Power learns ancient secrets to further empower their undead. Any undead they summon, animate or create get an extra +1 hit point per a hit die. Additionally, when they cast a Summon Undead spell, they may sacrifice a spell slot of at least first level. If so, any undead summoned by that spell gain an extra 1d6 hit points per a level of the spell slot sacrificed.

At seventh level a follower of the Tradition of Power learns to focus their arcane energies in further harming undead. Any evocation spell they cast does an extra 1 point of damage per a die of damage against any enemy undead.

Fast Metamagic(Ex): One of the most annoying things for a Battle Necromancer is how long it takes to modify spells as needed. At ninth level, a Battle Necromancer learns how to avoid this problem. Their evocation and necromancy spells do not have their casting time extended when they are modified by metamagic. This also allows a Battle Necromancer to apply the Quicken Spell metamagic to their spontaneously cast spells if they so choose.

Synergy(Ex): At tenth level, a Battle Necromancer learns the ultimate expression of how to combine their evocation and necromancy together. They treat any evocation or necromancy spell known in a spontaneous arcane spellcasting class, or or on one of their class lists fo a spontaneous arcane spellcasting class as if it were on the class list of every arcane casting class they have. Thus for example, since Death Knell is on the class list of the dread necromancer, the Battle Necromancer would also treat that spell as on their warmage class list, and thus be able to cast it from that list. If they then took levels in sorcerer, and took
Kelgore's Grave Mist and Sending as spells, they would treat both these spells as on their warmage and dread necromancer class lists. The primary effect of this feature is that for most builds, spells added by the warmage's Advanced Learning or the dread necromancer's would also be accessible to the other class.

Additionally, they may apply any benefits that would apply exclusively to a necromancy or evocation spell to the other school. For example, they may apply all aspects of their Soul Resonance to either a necromancy of evocation spell. Similarly, if they gain Greater Spell Focus for one of evocation or necromancy, the increase to save DC applies to spells from both schools. Note that similar feats do not stack, and thus if one had Greater Spell Focus for both evocation and necromancy, the additional save DC would only be increased by +1.

Tradition's Final Teachings(Su): At 10th level, a Battle Necromancer learns the most secret and dark of their tradition's knowledge. A follower of the Tradition of Power learns to make legendarily strong undead and to support those undead with their own arcana. A follower of the Tradition of Retribution instead learns how to use their resonance ability to create a fearsome cascade of destruction destroying not just one undead, but all undead that it has spawned.

Any undead summoned, animated or created by a follower of the Tradition of Power gain an extra +4 turn resistance, and gain a +4 bonus on all saves against effects that would particularly harm undead such as a Sunburst or Sunbeam spell. Also, any undead under their control that are within 100 feet of them are treated as having spell resistance of 10+ its hit die. A Follower of the Tradition of Power may also as a standard action sacrifice an unused spell slot to give all undead in their control 1d6 temporary hit points per a level of the spell slot sacrificed, and increase their spell resistance (if any) by twice the spell level sacrificed. This increased spell resistance and temporary hit points last for 1 hour.

Additionally, whenever a follower of the Tradition of Power kills a foe and benefits from their Soul Resonance class feature, they may reduce the amount of onyx needed in the next spell they cast to animate or create undead by a cost equal to 25 gp per number of hit die of the creature killed. Multiple such killings do not stack. For example, if one killed one creature with four hit die and another with six, one would then reduce the cost of the next animate dead spell by 150 gp.

Whenever a follower of the Tradition of Retribution casts a necromancy or evocation spell that reduces an undead creature to zero hit points or otherwise destroy it, the creature may not regenerate or return by any means. For example, a lich destroyed in this manner would not regenerate even if it had a phylactery, and a vampire would be destroyed if reduced to zero hit points rather than return to a mist form. Similarly, external attempts to return the creature through magic such as a Revive Undead spell (from Libris Mortis) also fail.

Moreover, the resonating destruction cascades to any spawn created by the undead creature, whether through spells such as animate dead, or through spell-like or supernatural abilities that create spawn (such as a vampires spawn ability). Each such created creature does get a will save (with a fortitude save equal to the save DC of the spell), and if the creature is destroyed, the resonance cascade continues through it. Any subsequent undead destroyed by the resonating cascade also may not return or regenerate by any means.

Here is an example for how resonating cascade works: Varney the Vampire is killed by a fireball from a Battle Necromancer. Varney is now gone. Suppose Varney spawned two vampires, Angelus and Barnabus. Angelus has one spawn, Carmilla. Barnabus has one spawn Dracula. If Angelus makes his save, Carmilla does not need to make any save. However, if Barnabus fails his save, then Barnabus is destroyed and Dracula must make a save or be destroyed.


Playing a Battle Necromancer
Your attitude is going to depend largely on which tradition you follow. A follower of the Tradition of Power will generally be closer to the stereotype of the power-hungry necromancer. On the other hand, a follower of the Tradition of Retribution will use their skills to protect people, and to defeat the worst necromancers, even as they realize that their own abilities and assistance are likely unappreciated by the world at large. There may be some exceptions. One might be a Battle Necromancer who was trained in the Tradition of Power but strive to do good in the world. or one might be a Battle Necromancer trained in the Tradition of Retribution, but who uses ones power for selfish goals, seeking to use ones abilities to intimidate powerful undead into following you.

Combat: A Battle Necromancer can cast in light armor, and they will have slightly more hit points than most mages who are substantially less hardy. However, you are still a mage, and so will more than likely try to avoid direct combat if you can. A Battle Necromancer of either tradition might rely on undead minions, but this will work far more effectively for a follower of the Tradition of Power. A Battle Necromancer from the Tradition of Retribution will be most effective when fighting undead.

Advancement: Battle Necromancers should be interested primarily in magic that boosts the power of their undead, or boosts the save DCs for their spells. Picking up Greater Spell Focus and possibly some of the Corpsecrafter feats can work well, especially if one is a follower of the Tradition of Power. If one is playing with Katarl's Ultimate Corpsecrafting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59582), those feats may also work well.

Resources: Most Battle Necromancers owe their allegiance at least in part to a guild of warmages or a warmage academy, and they will likely be able to request aid through there. They may also be involved in necromantic organizations or mages guilds. Members of both traditions will likely have at least one mentor who initiated them. A follower of the Tradition of Retribution is likely to have more contact with other followers of their Tradition whom they may be able to call on for assistance.

Battle Necromancers's in the World
"I thought he was a warmage, trained at Tarth Moorda like the others. But when the situation got bad, he started casting spells that I had only seen cast by the darkest of wizards. He tried to explain, but I'm still not sure I trust him. " - Telfana Silverblade, an elven paladin.

Battle Necromancers have been around for centuries, if not longer, likely dating back to the time of the first warmages. Few know about them, and fewer still understand that they are their own path, and both Traditions are in agreement that the situation is better that way.

Daily Life: Followers of the Tradition of Power are like many dark wizards and thus spend most of their time searching for power. They might stay inside your tower or tomb, researching arcane lore, or they might adventure to uncover long-forgotten tomes, or they may travel with an army, using their unique skills, while possibly gaining a steady supply of corpses.

Notables: Temen Anth is one of the most powerful of the Battle Necromancers in the Tradition of Power. He has managed to become the Headmaster of a warmage academy through a combination of deceit, duels, murder, and genuine skill. Now, he finds himself in the best position to find the students who show true promise, as well as to keep an eye out for any actions in his school by followers of the Tradition of Retribution. He is content for now, to let them believe that he is not aware of their infiltration, but that might change if they attempted to poach a particularly talented student.

Telis Goldenrod is a half-elf Battle Necromancer. Arcane power flowed from her elven heritage, and it was only during her time training as a warmage that she learned that her human half also contained the promise of power, but of a far darker kind. She used that skill to become a committed foe of the undead and all who would create them. Now, she plans to return to the academy of her youth, and seek out others to train to follow in her footsteps.

Lord Garlan Lesant, is known publicly as a powerful mage and a patron of many warmage schools. Few realize that he is in fact a lich, and he has identified the Tradition of Retribution as one of the few serious potential threats. He seeks to gain influence among the schools to find who is affiliated with the Tradition of Retribution, and to destroy them,

Asana Vermouth is human trained in the Tradition of Power, but has despite her early choice, dedicated herself to defending the weak and helpless, and using her formidable undead army to do so. She believes strongly that there's nothing intrinsically bad about undead, just that they are often controlled by bad people. While, her skills as both a warmage and as a necromancer are known publicly, she has at least for now acquiesced to the demands of both Traditions, and kept the exact nature of her abilities secret.

Organizations: While each Tradition is somewhat organized, by nature, the Tradition of Retribution is more organized. Because of their small number, there is no strong, formal organization of Battle Necromancers, although small numbers do form cabals, and the Battle Necromancers who trained at any specific warmage academy are likely to know each other and may remain in contact.

NPC Reaction
Most people will not be able to tell the difference between a Battle Necromancer and any other mage, but those who recognize the necromantic abilities will likely react exactly as you'd expect them to when they find out that one has been hiding necromanctic talents. They might react better if one can explain to them the nature of the Tradition of Retribution if one can get them to stick around long enough. On the other hand, those who are undead or those who are themselves necromancers may react substantially more negatively when they find one is a follower of the Tradition of Retribution, and what that entails.

Battle Necomancers in the Game
A Battle Necromancer will generally function similarly to a necromancer. They will be able to construct or summon armies of undead while staying back and using their magic to assail their foes. The DM can probably treat them as they would most other spellcasters. There is a danger that a follower of the Tradition of Power may slow down combat too much, and a DM should be careful about large numbers of undead. A follower of the Tradition of Retribution presents its own problem, as their captsone ability may short-circuit plots or remove potential reoccurring villains. It may make sense to make sure that any such villain has at least one potential escape route.

Adaptation: The Battle Necromancer can be easily put into many settings with few changes. One might connect them to specific religions or groups. In the Eberron setting, one might have the Tradition of Power be associated with the Blood of Vol, with the Tradition of Retribution an offshoot, or a secret group dedicated to dealing with those undead who oppose Vol. Alternatively, the Tradition of Retribution might have arose during the Last War in Thrane or Cyre to deal with the problem of Karnathi undead.

In Forgotten Realms, Myrkul and similar deities might be patrons of the Tradition of Power, while the Church of Kelemvor might support the Tradition of Retribution.

One can also broaden or alter the types of magic allowed. Doing so with conjuration might require weakening some class features, since the warmage gets the orb line of conjuration spells which are already extremely effective.

Encounters: Good PCs are most likely to encounter a Battle Necromancer as a major villain if they follow the Tradition of Power, or might encounter a follower of the Tradition of Retribution either through a misunderstanding, or because the follower has gone bad. Evil PCs might find work with a member of the Tradition of Power or might find them as an enemy if they both want the same McGuffin. or could encounter a follower of the Tradition of Retribution as a direct antagonist. [/spoiler]

JoshuaZ
2013-11-10, 10:46 PM
So, thoughts? I'm a little worried about the power level, and wonder if they should drop a caster level at first level. Also,I'm not sure I like the name very much. and am open to suggestions about a better name.

Falco1029
2013-11-10, 11:15 PM
I really like the idea behind this class. The main weakness of Warmages is their lack of versatility and interesting class features, and the weakness of the necromancer is a lack of damaging spells that aren't focused mainly on the living (and that have any real range), so this rounds them both out nicely, and adds some interesting features.



Special: Must have the Charnel Touch and Warmage Edge class features.

I just want to point out that with the requirements as they are, you'd only need a dip of 1 level in the other class, meaning only one casting level is really lost. Combined with the number of features, that makes this class pretty powerful. I'd recommend picking class features that'd require 2 levels of each, myself.




Advanced Learning A Battle Necromancer learns how to combine their various types of innate magic more effectively, using to reach for powers that others lack. At second level, a Battle Necromancer pick one evocation or necromancy spell from the sorcerer/wizard list. The spell must be of level strictly lower than the highest level spell they can cast. They gain that spell as an additional spell known for all spontaneous arcane spellcasting class. At each subsequent even level, they choose another such spell.

This might be a little too often (every other level), given that it applies the spell to both classes.



Soul Resonance(Su): A Battle Necromancer learns to channel the energy of the dying through their magic to empower themselves. At third level, whenever they kill a living, sentient (intelligence at least 3) creature with an evocation spell, the next necromancy or evocation spell the Battle Necromancer casts has its caster level and save DC (if any) increased by 1, as long as they cast it before the end of their next turn. At sixth level, these bonuses goes up to +2, and at 9th level it goes up to +3. Alternatively, they may choose to forego this benefit to instead regain a spell slot of level at most half the total hit die of the the creature's killed. One may only gain one of these two benefits from any casting of an evocation spell, even if the spell kills multiple targets.

Improving save DC is always pretty potent. I like the feature, but with full casting progression it may be a little too potent as is. You might want to remove the save DC raise.



Arcane Resonance(Su):A Battle Necromancer learns to create a resonating effect that can selectively penetrate spell resistance. Whenever they cast a necromancy or evocation spell that allows spell resistance, they may designate one target of the spell, or one being within the area of the spell. They learn instantly whether the target has any spell-like abilities or the ability to cast spells. If so, the Battle Necromancer gets a +5 bonus on the caster level check to penetrate the target's spell resistance (if any).

I'm not sure I see this fitting with the overall theme.



Meta-Evocative Necromancy(Su): At fifth level, a Battle Necromancer's picks a metamagic feat that they meet the prerequisites for. They are treated as having that feat for all spontaneous arcane spells that are either necromancy or evocation. They may change what metamagic feat this is if you spend 8 hours meditating. They are not treated as knowing this feat for any purposes for meeting prerequisites.

Way too powerful. Can you imagine if they choose, say, 'Quicken'? I'd give this a one per day limit.



Traditional Training(Su):Followers of the Tradition of Power sometimes find it necessary to cast their more offensive spells close to their minions. Getting new minions would be expensive and inconvenient, and they have learned to deal with this. At fifth level, any undead summoned, animated, or created by a follower of the Tradition of Power gets a +2 bonus on their save against any evocation or necromancy spell cast by that Battle Necromancer. They are also is treated as having both evasion and mettle for such spells. A Battle Necromancer may choose to forgo this benefit if they wish.

A follower of the Tradition of Retribution learns to more effectively turn their spells against enemy undead. The save DC of evocation and necromancy spells they cast against enemy undead is increased by 2, and they get a +4 bonus to penetrate any spell resistance of enemy undead.

The second benefit seems a bit more potent than the first. Maybe make the 2nd only apply against nonintelligent undead?

JoshuaZ
2013-11-10, 11:28 PM
I just want to point out that with the requirements as they are, you'd only need a dip of 1 level in the other class, meaning only one casting level is really lost. Combined with the number of features, that makes this class pretty powerful. I'd recommend picking class features that'd require 2 levels of each, myself.

I had tried to think of a way to do that. Unfortunately, while the Dread Necromancer has Lich Body, the warmage really doesn't have any class features at level 2. Maybe keep it as is and have them have no caster advancement at level one? That would also help deal with any potential issue with Advanced Learning.





This might be a little too often (every other level), given that it applies the spell to both classes.

That's part of why I reduced the level to be strictly lower than their highest level.




Improving save DC is always pretty potent. I like the feature, but with full casting progression it may be a little too potent as is. You might want to remove the save DC raise.

Yeah, I think you are correct here. Done.




I'm not sure I see this fitting with the overall theme.


I was trying to do something that felt "evocationy" with this, and penetrating spell resistance seemed appropriate. I'm not sure. Maybe I should drop this?




Way too powerful. Can you imagine if they choose, say, 'Quicken'? I'd give this a one per day limit.

Is it that powerful? They'd still need to apply the increased spell level. Should I state that explicitly?


The second benefit seems a bit more potent than the first. Maybe make the 2nd only apply against nonintelligent undead?

Done.

Falco1029
2013-11-11, 03:45 AM
I had tried to think of a way to do that. Unfortunately, while the Dread Necromancer has Lich Body, the warmage really doesn't have any class features at level 2. Maybe keep it as is and have them have no caster advancement at level one? That would also help deal with any potential issue with Advanced Learning.
A single level lost would probably work too, yeah






That's part of why I reduced the level to be strictly lower than their highest level. That probably does help. Still, it's a fair number of spells.





I was trying to do something that felt "evocationy" with this, and penetrating spell resistance seemed appropriate. I'm not sure. Maybe I should drop this?

Maybe have it work to get past energy resistance/immunity?





Is it that powerful? They'd still need to apply the increased spell level. Should I state that explicitly?


Hmm, it's not as bad if it does still increase spell level, but yes, I'd explicitly state that, I misunderstood.

JoshuaZ
2013-11-11, 10:05 AM
A single level lost would probably work too, yeah



Ok. Done.



That probably does help. Still, it's a fair number of spells.



Yeah, but the schools aren't that strong: it isn't like they can pick from conjuration or transmutation. In any event, with the lost level, now added, I think this should be fine.



Maybe have it work to get past energy resistance/immunity?


Hmm that would make a lot of sense, but I'm not sure how to do it mechanically. Any suggestion?



Hmm, it's not as bad if it does still increase spell level, but yes, I'd explicitly state that, I misunderstood.

And done.

Aldurin
2013-11-11, 08:25 PM
Synergy needs better wording, as I'm currently having trouble figuring out what the first part means. Is it supposed to be that your evocation and necromancy spells from Warmage and DN get added to the other class' spell list?

Otherwise, I like the design of this class and the way it tries to mix two normally different roles, especially the fact that you threw in a complete fluff entry with it, too.

JoshuaZ
2013-11-11, 10:17 PM
Synergy needs better wording, as I'm currently having trouble figuring out what the first part means. Is it supposed to be that your evocation and necromancy spells from Warmage and DN get added to the other class' spell list?

Essentially yes, but a little bit more. I've expanded it with examples. Does that clarify things?



Otherwise, I like the design of this class and the way it tries to mix two normally different roles, especially the fact that you threw in a complete fluff entry with it, too.

Thanks. Most of the fluff wrote itself given the standard warmage fluff, and the fact that in most settings necromancers are definitely not liked.

I'm also a little concerned about the power level of the Final Teachings. Is the resonance cascade too strong?

Also, I was thinking of having the Final Teaching for the Tradition of Power also apply its cost reduction to modifiers for undead other than the basic onyx. However, most of those are homebrew things like Katarl's Corpsecrafting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59582) so I'm not sure that I should include that. It does create an implicit reliance on other homebrew, but it just won't be relevant if that isn't in play. Thoughts?

JoshuaZ
2013-11-18, 10:49 PM
And updated Arcane Resonance as suggested to it instead applies to energy resistance. Any further input or thoughts? Still looking especially for feedback on whether the capstones are balanced.