can a command spell override a fear affect

[CyberThread]

Can a command spell override a fear spell,

[Flickerdart]

"You give the subject a single command, which it obeys to the best of its ability."

If the command is beyond the creature's ability to accomplish because it's currently fleeing in abject terror, then it can't follow the command and the spell does nothing.

[Psyren]

Same applies if it's paralyzed, petrified, helpless etc.

[Epsilon Rose]

"You give the subject a single command, which it obeys to the best of its ability."

If the command is beyond the creature's ability to accomplish because it's currently fleeing in abject terror, then it can't follow the command and the spell does nothing.


Same applies if it's paralyzed, petrified, helpless etc.

I'd point out that command, like fear, is a mental effect and thus might override other mental effects. Conversely, Paralysis, Petrification and Helplessness are very rarely mental effects, so it makes sense that your mental workings don't affect them.

[Flickerdart]

I'd point out that command, like fear, is a mental effect and thus might override other mental effects.
It can't - it has the very explicit "best of its ability" clause. If a creature is affected by anything in any way, and is commanded to do something, all of those other effects determine how it will carry out that command, if at all.

[Psyren]

I'd point out that command, like fear, is a mental effect and thus might override other mental effects. Conversely, Paralysis, Petrification and Helplessness are very rarely mental effects, so it makes sense that your mental workings don't affect them.

1) "Rarely?" Both of the very (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPerson.htm) first (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleep.htm) paralysis/helplessness spells in D&D history are mental.

2) Effects don't override one another unless they can't be combined:


If more than one condition affects a character, apply them all. If certain effects can’t combine, apply the most severe effect.

There's little more severe than being helpless.

[Epsilon Rose]

1) "Rarely?" Both of the very (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPerson.htm) first (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleep.htm) paralysis/helplessness spells in D&D history are mental.
Ok? Individual examples don't really help you prove much when you're talking about frequency. Case in point, even before you get into spells, you need to account for all of the mundane effects that result in paralysis or helpless: drugs, injuries, a simple set of ropes, sleep, ect. The list goes on and on and some of the higher level magical causes won't be mind effecting either.


2) Effects don't override one another unless they can't be combined
One could rather easily argue that running away because you're scared does not combine very well with losing control of your body/will, because even if you're terrified the magic will change your (re) actions;much in the same way that running away in terror doesn't combine well with being tied up.


There's little more severe than being helpless.

That depends entirely on how you count severity. In terms of what someone can do to you? Yeah, helpless pretty much tops the list. If your talking about how the effect is accomplished? Not necessarily.

For example, Look at a dominate spell, that give a caster complete control over a person, and an illusion spell that renders them helpless, perhaps by convincing them they've been tied up. If the caster isn't effected by the same spell, then regardless of what the victim is convinced of, they can order them to move their arms and there won't be anything to stop them, just like they could order them through an illusory wall. Conversely, if the victim was actually tied up and the caster was under the illusion they were free, the casters orders would be irrelevant.
In this case, illusory/mental helplessness < mental control < physically enforced helplessness.

[Psyren]

Ok? Individual examples don't really help you prove much when you're talking about frequency. Case in point, even before you get into spells, you need to account for all of the mundane effects that result in paralysis or helpless: drugs, injuries, a simple set of ropes, sleep, ect. The list goes on and on and some of the higher level magical causes won't be mind effecting either.

I cited those spells for the simple reason that quantity of effects don't matter as much for frequency as how often the players experience them. A Sleep spell is much more likely to come up in a campaign than drugs, and injuries are more likely to kill a character than knock them out.



One could rather easily argue that running away because you're scared does not combine very well with losing control of your body/will, because even if you're terrified the magic will change your (re) actions;much in the same way that running away in terror doesn't combine well with being tied up.

Being helpless however is the more severe effect. Can't get CDG just from fear.



That depends entirely on how you count severity. In terms of what someone can do to you? Yeah, helpless pretty much tops the list.

I don't see how you could count it any differently honestly. In your own example, you were comparing "affected" against "not affected" rather than different degrees of being affected.

[Epsilon Rose]

I cited those spells for the simple reason that quantity of effects don't matter as much for frequency as how often the players experience them. A Sleep spell is much more likely to come up in a campaign than drugs, and injuries are more likely to kill a character than knock them out.

That is very dependant on the campaign. Some campaigns might very well decide to explore darker concepts like drug use, or employ them for non-lethal captures. Even in the vanila settings, the Drow are famous for using incapacitating poisons, and I'm fairly certain they're not the only ones.

Similarly, combat need not always be lethal. There are plenty of situation and settings where it makes sense for combatants to not finish each other off.

That your campaigns favor certain tactics and stories does give you carte blanche to ignore all of the other ways of achieving a given effect.



Being helpless however is the more severe effect. Can't get CDG just from fear.
I already said that if you're counting severity by what it lets your opponents do to you, helpless is pretty near the top. That said, Mind Control might be higher. It can just as easily result in a coup de gras as helpless (Command: Close your eyes and take a nap), but helpless can't result in you attacking your friends unless mindcontrol gets involved.



I don't see how you could count it any differently honestly. In your own example, you were comparing "affected" against "not affected" rather than different degrees of being affected.

In all of my examples, the target was affected by an incapacitating effect. In one of them it didn't matter and was overwritten. I was not comparing "degrees of being affected" , in each instance the degree of all relevant effects was 100%, I was comparing "ways of being affected".