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Cowboy_ninja
2007-01-09, 01:52 PM
the metamagic feat ray to cone..... applied to a high level scorching ray...... what happenes? multiple cones?

Fax Celestis
2007-01-09, 01:57 PM
Yes. Yes it does.

Think...strobe light.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 01:59 PM
Where can I find this feat? It could work wonders with disintegrate

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-09, 02:37 PM
Well, if they're likely to fail the Fort save AND the Reflex they get now that it's a cone...yes.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-09, 02:40 PM
You could make a Cone of Enervation!

Cowboy_ninja
2007-01-09, 02:43 PM
Where can I find this feat? It could work wonders with disintegrate
here:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Ray_Coning,all

i guess the dragon manual is not an OFFICIAL source but my DM okays it.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-09, 02:49 PM
O.M.G. Yes, you sure could. Or if you've got some way of bringing down the metamagic cost, a Polar Cone! Or a Cone of Enfeeblement. Great feat!

Fax Celestis
2007-01-09, 02:52 PM
O.M.G. Yes, you sure could. Or if you've got some way of bringing down the metamagic cost, a Polar Cone! Or a Cone of Enfeeblement. Great feat!

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't a Polar Cone merely be a higher-level Cone of Cold?

But there are plenty of rays that are coneable. Like, hm...Well, Ray of Frost could be a poor man's Cone of Cold.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-09, 02:57 PM
Heheh, yeah, you're right. The only difference is the damage doesn't cap at 15d6. Even after my first post, I forgot that it adds a reflex save. Durrr. :smallredface:

Rumda
2007-01-09, 03:16 PM
prismatic cone....

Person_Man
2007-01-09, 03:35 PM
Except that its Reflex save for no damage, as opposed to Reflex save for half damage like most cone spells.

And then they're still entitled to whatever Save they would normally get from the spell (if it allows one).

Plus Dragon magazine feats are generally looked down upon/banned by a lot of DM's, like myself.

But still, it would be fun. Until the DM used it against the party in retaliation.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 03:39 PM
hmmm..Coned Disintegrate. 2d6 damage per level to all in a cone, reflex negates, fort partial. For an 8th level slot, that sucks.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-09, 03:40 PM
Uh... meh. The whole point of most rays is that there's no save. Giving'em a save? Kind of pointless. Just Chain it; it'll be better, and Chain has other applications.

NullAshton
2007-01-09, 04:06 PM
I give you... Chain Ray to Cone Prismatic Ray! Lethal disco rave spell!

*dances to disco music*

Deus Mortus
2007-01-09, 04:14 PM
What is Chain if I may ask?

NullAshton
2007-01-09, 04:17 PM
It makes rays or single target spells(I believe rays, not sure), into something like chain lightning. Not sure if it interacts with Ray to Cone, but if it did... MULTICOLORED DISCO LIGHT SHOW OF DOOM!

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-09, 04:24 PM
Chain Spell is from the Complete Arcane; it gives rays your caster level in secondary targets. It only works on farther-than-touch-range single-target spells. Secondary targets save with -4 to the DC if it's a saving throw spell, and take half the damage (with a Reflex save for another half, whether the original spell offered one or not) if it's a damage spell.

Best used with no-save non-damage rays, like Enervation, Ray of Enfeeblement, that sort of thing.

Or Chain Greater Dispel Magic to take out all of someone's items. Follow with a Chained Shatter. It's Disjunction with a CL check for the items instead of a saving throw!

Of course, Chain Disintegrate is good for demolitions...

Pegasos989
2007-01-09, 04:28 PM
Officially, dragon magazines are 100% official WotC content. It doesn't mean that every DM would accept them but it is up to DM, as any material. I don't think it is that much worse than the other splatbooks - some good and some bad stuff.

Chain spell adds any ranged spell to affect multiple enemies but lowers save DCs, etc.

Person_Man
2007-01-09, 04:37 PM
Actually, my favorite overkill combo: Ocular Split Ray spells. Ocular allows you to store one ray spell in each eye You can then release both as a single full round action whenever you like. Split Ray adds one additional ray to any ray spell, dealing the same damage, effects, etc.

So, Arcane Thesis Disintigrate to minimize the metamagic level adjustment and increase the save DC. Then as a full round action, deal 8d6 per level to your enemies. For extra fun, throw in Empower. Good times.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-01-09, 06:09 PM
That is EEEEEEVIL... hehehh =_)

Glyde
2007-01-09, 06:33 PM
Actually, my favorite overkill combo: Ocular Split Ray spells. Ocular allows you to store one ray spell in each eye You can then release both as a single full round action whenever you like. Split Ray adds one additional ray to any ray spell, dealing the same damage, effects, etc.

So, Arcane Thesis Disintigrate to minimize the metamagic level adjustment and increase the save DC. Then as a full round action, deal 8d6 per level to your enemies. For extra fun, throw in Empower. Good times.


So, would you be able to convert ray to cone spells for each eye, and start having flamethrowers for eyeballs?

goken04
2007-01-09, 07:09 PM
Cyclops, anyone?

Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-09, 08:37 PM
Where is Occular spell from?

Person_Man
2007-01-09, 08:40 PM
So, would you be able to convert ray to cone spells for each eye, and start having flamethrowers for eyeballs?

Ocular requires that it be a ray spell, so I'm not sure if it would allow Ray Coning.

But seriously - you could easily shoot 4 Disintigration rays in one turn. And if you really felt like a jerk afterwards, you could cast a Quickened spell, and a Swift action spell, and then cast Celerity so that you can cast another standard action spell afterwards - all in the same round. How many people do you really need to kill in six seconds anyway?

Also, Ocular Spell is from Lords of Madness, for those who are interested.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-09, 08:50 PM
Um, Quickened spells are swift actions, man.

AtomicKitKat
2007-01-10, 04:22 AM
Couldn't you technically cast a Quickened spell with your standard action(wasting the quickened level raise, but still...)?

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-10, 04:30 AM
No. Quickened spells are swift actions. You can't actually convert standard actions into those, you get one swift action a round, period.

AtomicKitKat
2007-01-10, 09:07 AM
I mean, couldn't one technically cast a quickened spell as part of a standard action, thereby "wasting" the level increase in order to squeeze the spell out during the "normal casting" portion? Or as a houserule, would it be reasonable?

NullAshton
2007-01-10, 09:56 AM
Ocular requires that it be a ray spell, so I'm not sure if it would allow Ray Coning.

But seriously - you could easily shoot 4 Disintigration rays in one turn. And if you really felt like a jerk afterwards, you could cast a Quickened spell, and a Swift action spell, and then cast Celerity so that you can cast another standard action spell afterwards - all in the same round. How many people do you really need to kill in six seconds anyway?

Also, Ocular Spell is from Lords of Madness, for those who are interested.

If you apply Ocular first, THEN apply ray to cone, then it would work. Same as applying the lycanthrope template to a humanoid first, then applying the half-dragon template, to get a lycanthrope with the dragon type.

Person_Man
2007-01-10, 10:13 AM
Um, Quickened spells are swift actions, man.

Whoops, forgot. So you could only cast 4 Disintegration rays, 1 swift action spell, and then Celerity.

Unless you want to use the Celerity+Arcane Spellsurge+Greater Arcane Fusion (http://209.221.178.225/showthread.php?t=728842) trick. But then you have to dodge your DM's attempt to bludgeon you with the nearest object. Hopefully, it won't be a chair.

I think the larger point is clear: high level spells + metamagic = insane.



If you apply Ocular first, THEN apply ray to cone, then it would work. Same as applying the lycanthrope template to a humanoid first, then applying the half-dragon template, to get a lycanthrope with the dragon type.

Right you are. Crazy stuff, though I guess they'd be entitled to an extra saving throw to negate the effect, which would be bad. I'd rather just make the touch attack roll and have it apply to 1 person.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-10, 10:13 AM
I mean, couldn't one technically cast a quickened spell as part of a standard action, thereby "wasting" the level increase in order to squeeze the spell out during the "normal casting" portion? Or as a houserule, would it be reasonable?
IMO as a houserule that would be IMMENSELY reasonable. I mean, if all you have is quickened spells, what are you going to do, stand there going "Well, I wish I could cast 2 spells this round, but this second one just isn't going to take long enough to cast?"

One thing, though: it has to end there. There must be no substituting a move action for yet another quickened spell.