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View Full Version : 4th player not fitting in, how do I help?



DontEatRawHagis
2013-11-11, 02:05 PM
I am the dm for 4 players.

The first three have been friends for while outside of game. The fourth was new to the college. We have so far had 5 sessions I believe and the 4th has come to me saying she doesn't feel like she is part of the group.

There is conflict with one of the players and her; he likes killing animals and she is a Druid. But for the most part it seems like the 4th player is very introverted and feels like no one listens to her.

I've seen this a little bit from be hind the screen but chalked it up to normal play dynamics.

Any way I can get the group to accept her more?

BWR
2013-11-11, 02:27 PM
The number one piece of advice you will always get, because it is the best piece of advice you can get, is talk to your group.

Talk to the group without the 4th player present, explain the situation and ask the others to help her out. If the rest of them are aware of the issue and the 4's feelings, chances are they will try to help.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-11-11, 02:41 PM
It's always awkward being the new guy in a group of people who are already friends. Maybe try hanging out with your 4th player more outside of the game?

The Oni
2013-11-11, 02:43 PM
Do you feel that the IC disconnect is affecting the OOC, or vice versa?

DonEsteban
2013-11-11, 05:35 PM
Well, you've not given us much information. A little bit more detail would be helpful. About the personality of your other players and about your relation to them and the new girl.

So far, two things come to mind. One is talking to your players. Could be a double-edged sword, though. It might make her even more isolated depending on the personality of your players.

The thing I'd try first is this: It is your job as a DM to make sure that everyone has a chance to shine. So give her some screen time, ask her what she wants to do and tell your other players to shut up if they interrupt too much. It's your authority. This is all the more true if you were the one who introduced her to the group. Again, it's hard to give solid advice with so few known facts. And sometimes it's the little things that cause problems.

andresrhoodie
2013-11-12, 02:23 AM
The number one piece of advice you will always get, because it is the best piece of advice you can get, is talk to your group.

Talk to the group without the 4th player present, explain the situation and ask the others to help her out. If the rest of them are aware of the issue and the 4's feelings, chances are they will try to help.

Definitely the most common, and terrible. really terrible advice.

"hey guys the new girl feels left out, stop ignoring her" yeah thats gonna work.

Take the most empathetic of your group aside privately, between sessions ask them to keep it to themselves, and mention the problem and ask him to make an effort to involve her.

Other players will start to follow suit.

Souju
2013-11-12, 03:03 AM
Well, just using your example of the animals...have a quest giver/important NPC be a talking bear.
...and talk to your group. But don't just give her ALONE the chance to shine, connect her with another group member and give them both some spotlight. Have the group get ambushed by goblins (or something else) and split up, but set the scenario so it won't last more than a single session barring shenanigans. Pair her up and put her in a scenario with someone who NEEDS her help, someone who would rely on her, but at the same time someone she could conceivably rely upon as well.

For example, if she's with the party fighter...um, well I really don't need to explain how THAT dynamic would work.
An interesting angle to approach is known languages: check her list of known languages and compare it to the rest of the party. Only use Druidic as a last resort, though...that one kinda stretches credibility.

BWR
2013-11-12, 04:17 AM
Definitely the most common, and terrible. really terrible advice.

"hey guys the new girl feels left out, stop ignoring her" yeah thats gonna work.

Take the most empathetic of your group aside privately, between sessions ask them to keep it to themselves, and mention the problem and ask him to make an effort to involve her.

Other players will start to follow suit.

So talking to the group is terrible advice, and your alternative solution is...talking to the group. :smallconfused:

GungHo
2013-11-12, 11:19 AM
I think you guys may have your wires crossed when it comes to interpreting what the phrase "talk to the group" means.

I believe that BWR not necessarily suggesting talking to everyone simultaneously, right in front of everyone.

I believe that Andres is suggesting you talk to some members of the group, individually, and to keep it on the d/l so that you don't end up embarassing the person who is already feeling unwelcome. Some folks in the group, as Andres notes, may become defensive, so you may need to be strategic regarding the order of the people you speak with.

RustyArmor
2013-11-12, 07:52 PM
Is she the only women in the group as well? That can make her more shy and inverted if she is only one there and a stranger at that.

OOC talking about things you all did in oler games can also make a newer player feel left out since everyone but them can relate to such, if your group does such make sure to ask if she has related stories or try to not do it as much.

The best advice about would be have one player spend more time talking to her and helping her with various task, don't over do it else she will just think he is hitting on her ;) And with time the other players also talk with her and she gets mixed into the group.

The druid thing I can relate too however. What druid or ranger would just shrug it off if someone is just murdering every breathing thing for his blood lust. But setting druid class aside that can be disturbing OOC to a player as much as the player that is murdering hobos or burning villages because he is 'CN'.

Anxe
2013-11-12, 11:33 PM
I tried to get a 6th member for my group for the longest time, but kept running into this problem. No one seemed to mesh with my group due to us already having 10 years of history together. I gave up on finding someone. I'm only reconsidering getting another member now because we have started hanging out with this other guy outside of D&D. So my advice would be to hang out with the new player as a group or as smaller groups outside of D&D.

When I've brought up "the new guy doesn't fit in" with my group, it always went into, "We should stop inviting him."

DontEatRawHagis
2013-11-12, 11:55 PM
So I asked the more empathetic of my players what she thought. From her perspective it was the fault of another player taking the reigns too many times.

And that because of the friction between the Fourth Player and this guy not getting along it might be causing issues.

I'm planning a session to highlight the Druid more, but to be honest it is difficult when a lot of the players like to push themselves into the prominent role.

andresrhoodie
2013-11-13, 12:36 AM
So talking to the group is terrible advice, and your alternative solution is...talking to the group. :smallconfused:

reading is better then skimming
Talking to the group is bad.

Talking to the one person alone in the group whose most likely to help and be a good example is good.

Shes already feeling like an outsider, making her into an actual outsider by approaching the entire group is not a good solution.

andresrhoodie
2013-11-13, 12:38 AM
I think you guys may have your wires crossed when it comes to interpreting what the phrase "talk to the group" means.

I believe that BWR not necessarily suggesting talking to everyone simultaneously, right in front of everyone.

I believe that Andres is suggesting you talk to some members of the group, individually, and to keep it on the d/l so that you don't end up embarassing the person who is already feeling unwelcome. Some folks in the group, as Andres notes, may become defensive, so you may need to be strategic regarding the order of the people you speak with.

exactly this.

Scow2
2013-11-13, 10:58 AM
So I asked the more empathetic of my players what she thought. From her perspective it was the fault of another player taking the reigns too many times.

And that because of the friction between the Fourth Player and this guy not getting along it might be causing issues.

I'm planning a session to highlight the Druid more, but to be honest it is difficult when a lot of the players like to push themselves into the prominent role.1&2 - this is a problem that needs addressing: Don't let Mr. Spotlight hold it to the point of overshadowing the druid.

3 - So make them do the work of pushing themselves into the prominent role, with the adventure designed to keep the druid involved (But this might backfire if they take over on stuff she's supposed to be able to do.

Garimeth
2013-11-13, 05:29 PM
It's always awkward being the new guy in a group of people who are already friends. Maybe try hanging out with your 4th player more outside of the game?

This is great advice.

Asheram
2013-11-13, 06:59 PM
How about having word with "the guy taking the reigns" as you describe it?
It can't be just the new new gal who has issue with being forced into second fiddle like this.

If he keeps killing animals on purpose it sounds like his character is less likely to lead by example and more by bullying (the "my way or the highway" type) the others into following him.

nedz
2013-11-13, 07:20 PM
Out of game socialising is one solution which may work.

You definitely shouldn't sell it as such, just a get together down the pub, a trip to a restaurant or whatever.

DontEatRawHagis
2013-11-15, 09:14 AM
So our next game is going to be on a Saturday. And we'll be able to hangout and get lunch together. It should be good team building. This session the party seemed to be cohesive. However Chinese food and DnD always brings people closer together.

ElenionAncalima
2013-11-15, 10:07 AM
I would talk to the guy who is killing the animals and ask him if he would be willing to tone in down, at least until the new player feels more integrated into the group.

I would do this in a very non-confrontational way. Don't make it sound like he is doing something wrong or that you are criticizing his roleplaying choices. Make it seem more like you are asking him for his help initiating the new player.

Perhaps also consider reducing the opportunity for conflict with druid until she has found her feet in the group...then re-introduced those in character conflicts when you feel everyone is comfortable and that in game conflicts won't lead to out of game discomfort. Roleplaying conflict can be a lot of fun, but not every group is going to be mature enough to handle it.

Airk
2013-11-15, 11:17 AM
Most disagreements of this sort are because people aren't on the same page for what it means to "play a role playing game.". Why the does the problem player (yes, I consider one of the original three to be the problem, not the new girl) "like killing animals"? Is he trying to 'play' a sociopath?

I think expectations at the table need to be level set, and something like this might help:

http://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/

Of course, there's also the 'spotlight' issue, but in a healthy group, that shouldn't be a problem. It's only when you get thoughtless people who don't care about other people's fun ("does not play well with others") because there's a "correct" way to play an RPG that this sort of thing starts to really breed resentment.

Logic
2013-11-15, 12:58 PM
Sometimes, just doing a few sessions at a time with a reduced number of the "Old Guard" can help.

Try to run a side-session with the new player and one of the other old players. It's better if you can manage to do it for the new player once for every one of the older players, that way you get a little one-on-one time between the players and their respective characters.

RaynFreth
2013-11-15, 03:10 PM
Totally hang out with her outside of the game. Sit the group down and talk to them. Try to figure out why the other guy keeps killing animals. Ask him to stop.

Talk to eachother.