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TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-11, 02:26 PM
Erfworld (www.erfworld.com) is an online comic about a table top gamer named Parson Gotti that is summoned from our world to the world of Erf, a world based on its own rules that fumction similarly to a table top game. This makes Parson a valuable player in a game that may very well threaten his life. Does he want to go back to his own world at all? Is he really dreaming? Who knows! What we do know is that in this world, the pieces are living things, and the stakes cannot be higher. Join Parson on this wild ride filled with real world references and puns, gaming references and glory, fate and chance.

Previous incarnations:
GitP: Erfworld Forum section (Locked) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=47)
Erf thread I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178724)
Erf thread II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268156)

Currently we are finished the 2nd Inner Peace storyline, and in the Epilogue of Book 2 (page 23).

Also, please SPOILER your comments about an update that has occurred within a day or two, or at least until someone posts that there is a new update, so someone doesn't get a spoiled page.

unbeliever536
2013-11-11, 04:20 PM
Putting in a vote for Epilogjam.

On today's, it seems like every book ends with Sizemore glaring at Parson. No Janis to talk him down this time, though...

Silva Stormrage
2013-11-11, 04:30 PM
Putting in a vote for Epilogjam.

On today's, it seems like every book ends with Sizemore glaring at Parson. No Janis to talk him down this time, though...

To be fair the two books end with Parson destroying something pretty major. Book 1 was the Volcano Apocalypse, Book 2 Was the Magic Kingdom's Neutrality. With Sizemore being pretty much a pacifist (As much as one can BE in erfworld) it is understandable that he gets pissed at Parson's "Exploits".

Rob Roy
2013-11-11, 06:12 PM
Voting for Epilog(n), again, just to make sure the vote is counted.

So, who wants to be that Sizemore will, at some point, commit treason/switch sides?

Cuthalion
2013-11-11, 06:18 PM
I read all the Giantitp stuff but the rest seems to be interspersed with not-comic, which is weird. Any way to just see comics, or is part*of the story simply words? And congrats new thread.

tyckspoon
2013-11-11, 09:16 PM
part*of the story simply words?

It's this. The text updates range from Erf trivia and backstory about the game system underlying everything to actual updates that just happen not to be illustrated. The creative team has recurring troubles in being able to generate full comics pages quickly enough to satisfy the update schedule they were originally supposed to have, hence text updates. (And now we just kind of accept that the update schedule is 'whenever something gets put up.')

tomaO2
2013-11-11, 10:39 PM
Some of the text updates will be made into a novel when they are done, as well. You simply can't ignore text updates if you are going to continue reading after the first novel.

Plus, with this whole youtube update thing going on, there might not even BE a graphic novel that takes place for book 3. Yea, I know that they are only supposed to be for the epilogue but that is how the whole text update thing started too and look how that took off.

Nothing would surprise me, in regards to Erfworld. This story is definitely the most non-traditional of all the webcomics I have favorited. Anyone that values media consistency will be sorely disappointed while reading this. Heck, we can't even have art constancy. Every book we get starts with a new artist.

Plus, there is that kickstarter Rob did that completely flopped. 84k raised for no gain. No motion comic, no updated website, no soundtrack album.

No denying this is one troubled project. I'm frankly amazed that Rob's managed to do as well as he has on his second kickstarter. Although, even that isn't enough, since he's going to be launching a third sometime soonish. That doesn't even mention the money he gets every month from subscribers. The fanbase is strong in this one.

Also, YAY, my original Erfworld thread has been linked this time around. :smallcool:

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-12, 07:57 AM
Also, YAY, my original Erfworld thread has been linked this time around. :smallcool:

You are quite welcome.

@ Everyone. I only see one vote for two things. As for Epilog(n), what is the pun or reference here? I don't recognize it, and may like it more if I did.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-11-12, 12:06 PM
It's a math pun. Log as in logarithm.

My vote is for Faster Than the Comic, because I believe in Truth in Advertising.

AstralFire
2013-11-12, 12:26 PM
I try to get back into this a few times a year, but "incoherent" is the word of the everything with this intellectual property. Ugh. I hop back, decide that I guess I can handle jumping between comic and pure text - though I really prefer going purely one way or the other when trying to follow a narrative - and what is this YouTube crap?

EDIT: I see they're just narrated versions, at least. But wow, this is an art downgrade...

Kalrany
2013-11-12, 12:49 PM
I am throwing in for "Faster Than The Comic" and "Epilog(n)". Both are fitting.

Bird
2013-11-12, 02:32 PM
I like As The Erf Turns.

Landis963
2013-11-12, 06:05 PM
Another vote for Faster than the Comic.

EDIT: and As the Erf turns as well.

Wort
2013-11-12, 09:19 PM
Hello all,

I vote for Faster than the comic.

Best regards,
Wort

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-13, 07:23 AM
Alright folks! We have the finalists!





Title

Tally


Epilog(n)
0


Faster than the Comic
0


As the Erf Turns
0



For these three, pick one title to vote on. The winner will be the new thread title.

Killer Angel
2013-11-13, 07:29 AM
Alright folks! We have the finalists!


{table=head]
Title |
Tally
Epilog(n) | 0
Faster than the Comic | 0
As the Erf Turns | 0
[/table]

For these three, pick one title to vote on. The winner will be the new thread title.

It's already "As the Erf Turns". Leave it be.

MReav
2013-11-13, 08:04 AM
As the Erf Turns.

HalfTangible
2013-11-13, 09:51 AM
Alright folks! We have the finalists!


{table=head]
Title |
Tally
Epilog(n) | 0
Faster than the Comic | 0
As the Erf Turns | 0
[/table]

For these three, pick one title to vote on. The winner will be the new thread title.

Epilog(n) .

Rogar Demonblud
2013-11-13, 10:11 AM
Faster Than The Comic

RMS Oceanic
2013-11-13, 10:16 AM
Faster than the Comic

Kalrany
2013-11-13, 10:19 AM
Faster than the Comic

Whispri
2013-11-13, 10:34 AM
As the Erf Turns.

Wort
2013-11-13, 10:35 AM
Faster than the comic

Bird
2013-11-13, 12:21 PM
As the Erf Turns

Rob Roy
2013-11-13, 05:47 PM
Epilog(n)spaceohwonderfulspacedon'tyoulovethespace ?

Jade_Tarem
2013-11-13, 05:49 PM
I'll vote for Epilog(n).

Silva Stormrage
2013-11-13, 05:50 PM
As the erf turns

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-14, 10:32 AM
Title

Tally


Epilog(n)
3


Faster than the Comic
4


As the Erf Turns
6



Looks like we're keeping it with what it is! Much obliged, folks! Now, lets talk Erfworld. Wonder what the next update will be. It seems as inner peace part 2 is done, we're waiting on the epilogue for book 2 to be done. How many updates did he say would be in the epilogue?

Divayth Fyr
2013-11-14, 10:42 AM
How many updates did he say would be in the epilogue?
"about 25 updates", so they should end soon. Of course, this is Erfwold soon, so it might take some time ;)

Kornaki
2013-11-14, 10:44 AM
Let's talk about this kickstarter post
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1554093685/e-is-for-erfworld-the-erfabet-book-and-debut-of-da/posts/645342


As I warned you, the next project is coming up. The goal will be to fund the printing of Book 2 and the illustration of Book 3 by David Hahn. It'll be an ambitious goal, and we need to hit it for Erfworld to go anywhere from here. You've all come through for us so brilliantly, and I am counting on your continued support.


Is he saying that we need to have another kickstarter before they can do book 3?

We might be going at this epilogue for a while....

T-O-E
2013-11-14, 10:47 AM
Let's talk about this kickstarter post
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1554093685/e-is-for-erfworld-the-erfabet-book-and-debut-of-da/posts/645342



Is he saying that we need to have another kickstarter before they can do book 3?

We might be going at this epilogue for a while....

Who knew that Kickstarter's success would be to the detriment of webcomics.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-14, 10:47 AM
Let's talk about this kickstarter post
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1554093685/e-is-for-erfworld-the-erfabet-book-and-debut-of-da/posts/645342



Is he saying that we need to have another kickstarter before they can do book 3?

We might be going at this epilogue for a while....

...Seems like. Or at least to continue it if they start it.

MReav
2013-11-14, 11:16 AM
Let's talk about this kickstarter post
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1554093685/e-is-for-erfworld-the-erfabet-book-and-debut-of-da/posts/645342



Is he saying that we need to have another kickstarter before they can do book 3?

We might be going at this epilogue for a while....

Oh for boop's sake.

TheStranger
2013-11-14, 12:03 PM
Ugh. Nobody should give him a dime until he shows where the money from the first two kickstarters went.

Killer Angel
2013-11-14, 01:53 PM
Is he saying that we need to have another kickstarter before they can do book 3?

Apparently, yes. :smallsigh:


Ugh. Nobody should give him a dime until he shows where the money from the first two kickstarters went.

but... but... don't you like a permanent "A is for Awesome" badge? :smalltongue:

virgileso
2013-11-14, 04:48 PM
Maybe the money it just going toward the 'business' of the Erfworld brand and he gives himself a salary? I have no idea, but it is frustrating that with the Toolship program (however big that is/was) and the last two Kickstarters, that all we have to show for is the continued presence of a mediocre webcomic.

EDIT: And when was the last time he added anything to the store for people to buy?

TheStranger
2013-11-14, 06:24 PM
At this point, I don't think you can look at the kickstarters as anything other than a donation drive.

Which is fine, in that there's nothing wrong with giving money to a creator to support something you enjoy. But calling it anything else is a little misleading.

In fairness, I'll admit that I haven't given any money. So if somebody who has chimes in and says they feel like they got great value for their money, I'll retract that.

Tebryn
2013-11-14, 09:12 PM
At this point, I don't think you can look at the kickstarters as anything other than a donation drive.


You mean...exactly what it is? Kickstarter is a Donation service. Not an "Early Access" service or anything like that. What else do you think Kickstarter is?

The Glyphstone
2013-11-14, 09:36 PM
You mean...exactly what it is? Kickstarter is a Donation service. Not an "Early Access" service or anything like that. What else do you think Kickstarter is?

I think he's distinguishing crowdfunding (which is more like grassroots investment) from a simple 'give me/us money please' donation drive, the former usually implict that the money being donated goes towards producing/creating/funding a specifically named thing.

TheStranger
2013-11-14, 09:54 PM
I think he's distinguishing crowdfunding (which is more like grassroots investment) from a simple 'give me/us money please' donation drive, the former usually implict that the money being donated goes towards producing/creating/funding a specifically named thing.

That's exactly it, thank you. Obviously, there's some profit built into the crowdsourcing model, and I don't begrudge anybody that, but it seems like Rob is taking that to an extreme. The ratio of dollars given to things actually produced in the previous kickstarters seemed low. (But again, I'll defer to anybody who gave and says different.)

Of course, if he's now kickstarting the entire next book of the comic, that's more like what I would think of as crowdsourcing, in that he's promising to produce something if people meet the target. If people feel like it's worth giving money to ensure the continued existence of the comic, I won't say they're wrong. It's a change in business model, but it's not like he's obligated to give us the comic for free.

Viros
2013-11-14, 10:15 PM
Sizemore is so emo lately. His world is changing, yes, but does he not realize Parson has the opportunity to end war in Erfworld forever? I mean seriously, leaving aside all their other gamebreaking strategies, Gobwin Knob's ability to make Decrypted is enough to put the world at peace on its own. Not to mention the Grand Abbie herself is in favor of bringing the war to the Magic Kingdom, since it seems like its only purpose is to be a small island of peace that enables casters to perpetuate the war.

It just doesn't seem like he understands this is more than a normal conflict.

MReav
2013-11-14, 11:11 PM
Sizemore is so emo lately. His world is changing, yes, but does he not realize Parson has the opportunity to end war in Erfworld forever? I mean seriously, leaving aside all their other gamebreaking strategies, Gobwin Knob's ability to make Decrypted is enough to put the world at peace on its own. Not to mention the Grand Abbie herself is in favor of bringing the war to the Magic Kingdom, since it seems like its only purpose is to be a small island of peace that enables casters to perpetuate the war.

It just doesn't seem like he understands this is more than a normal conflict.

Plenty of wars see horrible things needing to be done in order to end the war. That does not make it feel any better when you're one of the people being stomped on to ensure the end of the war. Sizemore is having to sacrifice a lot, his beliefs, his innocence, his hard-earned respect, and it probably doesn't seem like there's any end is in sight.

And the Decrypted thing? Most people consider Uncroaking a mockery of life. Decryption is probably full-on abomination. The fact that it subverts the will of the Decrypted to the wielder of the Arkenpliers makes it seem even less appealing, especially when its wielder is... Wanda.

Killer Angel
2013-11-15, 08:26 AM
Sizemore is so emo lately. His world is changing, yes, but does he not realize Parson has the opportunity to end war in Erfworld forever?

Probably he got some doubts that "a war that will end all the wars" is really a doable achievement.

Radar
2013-11-15, 08:47 AM
Probably he got some doubts that "a war that will end all the wars" is really a doable achievement.
Or he is afraid, that it will end all wars by killing everyone on Erf. After all, dead planet is a peaceful planet. :smalltongue:

Rogar Demonblud
2013-11-15, 10:10 AM
I forget which Lord it was, but a British nobleman at one of the peace conferences after WWI (I think the Middle East one) had the quote 'Now that we've had A War To End All War, I suppose we'll have A Peace To End All Peace.'

Boy was he right, but that's another subject for another thread.

Welf
2013-11-15, 01:53 PM
Maybe the money it just going toward the 'business' of the Erfworld brand and he gives himself a salary? I have no idea, but it is frustrating that with the Toolship program (however big that is/was) and the last two Kickstarters, that all we have to show for is the continued presence of a mediocre webcomic.

EDIT: And when was the last time he added anything to the store for people to buy?

I think early on there were around 1.000 Tools. If that number stayed constant and the program has been running for 4 years now, that has been around 144.000 USD. It's likely that this number has decreased. This number is revenue, so the actual profit from this smaller. Paypal takes around 10% as fees. The running costs of the site seem to be covered by ad revenue. A Tool pays 3 USD a month, so he can buy every 4 month an issue for 12 USD which takes around 24 months to finish.

Kornaki
2013-11-15, 02:53 PM
To talk about the comic for a little bit, it occurs to me at some point Ansom mentioned that all the princes tried attuning to the pliers, and I'm willing to bet that those are the only Jetstone units that did. I wonder if Jetstone could have had their own decrypted army if they were just willing to let the regular stabbers take a stab at holding the pliers as well.

Anteros
2013-11-15, 04:50 PM
Sizemore is so emo lately. His world is changing, yes, but does he not realize Parson has the opportunity to end war in Erfworld forever? I mean seriously, leaving aside all their other gamebreaking strategies, Gobwin Knob's ability to make Decrypted is enough to put the world at peace on its own. Not to mention the Grand Abbie herself is in favor of bringing the war to the Magic Kingdom, since it seems like its only purpose is to be a small island of peace that enables casters to perpetuate the war.

It just doesn't seem like he understands this is more than a normal conflict.

Eh, I'm on the other side. Parson has been doing terrible things, and treading on those around him for his own benefit ever since he got to Erf. Sizemore is the only one who ever calls him on it.



To talk about the comic for a little bit, it occurs to me at some point Ansom mentioned that all the princes tried attuning to the pliers, and I'm willing to bet that those are the only Jetstone units that did. I wonder if Jetstone could have had their own decrypted army if they were just willing to let the regular stabbers take a stab at holding the pliers as well.

Seems like the Pliers are tied fairly tightly to "fate" or whatever. I kind've doubt any regular stabbers would be able to attune them. I doubt they would have attuned for anyone except Wanda honestly.


As far as the kick starter thing goes...wasn't the last one supposed to pay for book 3? Also, considering the fact that the last 2 kick starters both exceeded their goals by an incredible amount of money....where exactly is all this money going? Why do people keep paying him when he never actually lives up to his end of the bargain? It just makes no sense to me.

Kornaki
2013-11-15, 05:36 PM
As far as the kick starter thing goes...wasn't the last one supposed to pay for book 3? Also, considering the fact that the last 2 kick starters both exceeded their goals by an incredible amount of money....where exactly is all this money going? Why do people keep paying him when he never actually lives up to his end of the bargain? It just makes no sense to me.


Apparently the last one was just to pay for the erfabet book so David could be trained in the art so that he would be ready to do book 3 when they got the money....

T-O-E
2013-11-15, 05:41 PM
When will we be introduced to Punch-Up, the moneymancer who converts schmuckers into rations?

Divayth Fyr
2013-11-16, 06:08 PM
There are only two epilogues left to run, but we've hit some major disruptions. Arthur has been traveling (to be a contestant on Jeopardy!) For me, a serious personal crisis came up this week. I don't really feel like sharing the details, but when you're talking to the police every day, it's serious. It is also (as of this writing) still going on.

So we will update as we can. But after the epilogues, there is not a lot else coming. We are not going to start the final part of Book 0 until Xin has finished all the bonus art for Book 2. We are also not going to start Book 3 until we've had the Kickstarter to fund drawing it (and printing Book 2). So after the epilogues have finished, we're going to be doing filler content for at least a month.

That filler content will consist of select examples of the new art Xin is doing for the Summer Updates 2009 (First Intermission), and the 4 "Who You Are In Erfworld" stories that I still owe our top tier backers from the Year of the Dwagon project.

The Kickstarter will determine what form Book 3 will take (i.e. how much art we can have drawn for it). Details on that to follow, as soon as we launch the project.
Am I the only one who thinks that it would make sense (with this business model in mind) to start the new Kickstarter a good time before the epilogues end so you can have the webcomic go without such a big hiatus?

Also, the Year of the Dwagon bonus is just about a year overdue - which I guess won't matter much since people are still willing to give the guy a lot of cash...

Gez
2013-11-16, 07:03 PM
Rob Balder and Ryan Sohmer need to partner for a Kickstarter project.

They could hire Tessa Stone for the art.

T-O-E
2013-11-16, 07:31 PM
Rob Balder and Ryan Sohmer need to partner for a Kickstarter project.

They could hire Tessa Stone for the art.

The billion dollar reward will be for them to never do another Kickstarter*

*Maybe

Legato Endless
2013-11-16, 07:38 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that it would make sense (with this business model in mind) to start the new Kickstarter a good time before the epilogues end so you can have the webcomic go without such a big hiatus?

Also, the Year of the Dwagon bonus is just about a year overdue - which I guess won't matter much since people are still willing to give the guy a lot of cash...

No, it would certainly flow better, but for whatever reason that isn't happening. Also, apparently something horrible happened recently that's brought him into contact with the police all week. From the tone of the update, I'd hazard to guess something happened to someone close to him.

Rob has definitely mastered the art of endlessly baiting the reader. Despite the update schedule, the questionable expenditures/resources, the pacing, and the complete lack of consistency…we're all still here. Sigh.

Welf
2013-11-16, 09:35 PM
Rob Balder and Ryan Sohmer need to partner for a Kickstarter project.

They could hire Tessa Stone for the art.

Tessa Stone? Who?

Ubiq
2013-11-18, 03:06 AM
Seems like the Pliers are tied fairly tightly to "fate" or whatever. I kind've doubt any regular stabbers would be able to attune them. I doubt they would have attuned for anyone except Wanda honestly.

Sylvia's conversation with Ossomer seems to suggest that she was capable of doing so; not surprising considering her backstory. She almost certainly wouldn't have understood their proper usage like Wanda does though since Sylvia wasn't a Croakamancer.

Legato Endless
2013-11-18, 03:53 AM
Sylvia's conversation with Ossomer seems to suggest that she was capable of doing so; not surprising considering her backstory. She almost certainly wouldn't have understood their proper usage like Wanda does though since Sylvia wasn't a Croakamancer.

I'm not so certain. Charlie mastered his artifact to a significant enough degree to be considered a huge threat to the Great Minds despite being a caster in a fairly unrelated discipline. Haffaton's Ruler took 2 days before she became Erfworld's greatest assassin. The text with Stanley implies his complete lack of focus and training is the reason the hammer comes off poorly compared to the dish and pliers. Sylvia might not be Charlie, but I'm pretty sure she'd be a better study than the Tool.

Maybe she wouldn't figure out the Archon sight, but the only other thing Wanda does is point and click. If anything, Wanda might be the least capable wielder, since the first ability she learned is so powerful she hasn't delved into trying anything else but decryption. In contrast, the hammer and the dish wield an array of abilities, and it's implied we still haven't seen everything.

Miklus
2013-11-18, 05:14 PM
I'm not so certain. Charlie mastered his artifact to a significant enough degree to be considered a huge threat to the Great Minds despite being a caster in a fairly unrelated discipline. Haffaton's Ruler took 2 days before she became Erfworld's greatest assassin. The text with Stanley implies his complete lack of focus and training is the reason the hammer comes off poorly compared to the dish and pliers. Sylvia might not be Charlie, but I'm pretty sure she'd be a better study than the Tool.

Maybe she wouldn't figure out the Archon sight, but the only other thing Wanda does is point and click. If anything, Wanda might be the least capable wielder, since the first ability she learned is so powerful she hasn't delved into trying anything else but decryption. In contrast, the hammer and the dish wield an array of abilities, and it's implied we still haven't seen everything.

I'm pretty sure Charlie cheated with the Arkendisc. He is a carnymancer, I bet he faked being a thinkamancer or even that he faked fate in order to attune to it. I don't think he is the discs "rightful owner", as ment by the Titans. That is probably one of the "great minds"... And they have probably figured that out themselves.

Wanda seems a capable wielder of the Arkenpliers too be. In contrast, Ansom got very little out of them. Wanda made a gigantic army with no upkeep, She can decrypt dwagans, archons, wienerrammers and many others. And the army will not decay. It is a gamebreaker, it is the scariest arkentool by far. Both the arkendisc's arcons and the arkenhammer's dwagon require upkeep and that limits their number. The arkenpliers have no such restriction, the situation threatens to snowball way out of control.

On to my question...

What is the deal with Sylvia? Apparently, she can't die... Or at least she arises again on the next turn. But now she is decrypted? Can she still do that? She seems to have a fair amount of fate on her too. It was the carnymancers, specifacally Jojo who went to great lenghts to make her this way. What is the deal here? What to Jojo trade away for Sylvia? One shivers to think what that might have been, it has all the hallmarks of a deal with the devil.

Legato Endless
2013-11-18, 06:43 PM
I'm pretty sure Charlie cheated with the Arkendisc. He is a carnymancer, I bet he faked being a thinkamancer or even that he faked fate in order to attune to it.

While I could certainly see Charlie cheating the Titans, why would he need to fake being a thinkamancer? The Tool was infantry, aside from rocking out, he wouldn't have any native talent to the other capabilities the hammer grants him. Are we assuming Judy was a master runner before she gained the arkenshoes?


I don't think he is the discs "rightful owner", as ment by the Titans. That is probably one of the "great minds"... And they have probably figured that out themselves.

The dish and the shoes have been attuned to multiple people. Someone might be fated to pick up one of the items, but that doesn't make them the only possible wielder.


Wanda seems a capable wielder of the Arkenpliers too be. In contrast, Ansom got very little out of them. Wanda made a gigantic army with no upkeep, She can decrypt dwagans, archons, wienerrammers and many others. And the army will not decay. It is a gamebreaker, it is the scariest arkentool by far. Both the arkendisc's arcons and the arkenhammer's dwagon require upkeep and that limits their number. The arkenpliers have no such restriction, the situation threatens to snowball way out of control.


Ansom wasn't attuned. Anyone can strike down the uncroaked with the pliers. Decryption is an incredible power, but I wasn't talking about competitive balance, I was saying that Wanda has done only one until very recently, whereas Charlie and even Stanley have a host of powers. If there is a kind of competitive balance, the hammer needs to out something major in the future, as tools go it's a bit underwhelming.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-11-18, 08:59 PM
From the looks of it, each of the Arkentools has several forms of casting. I'd say the Hammer's habit of turning nuts into birds is Carnymancy, frex. One of the few things keeping me reading the comic is the hunt for more data on the artifacts. The other main one is the desire to see Charlie croaked.

Miklus
2013-11-19, 12:12 PM
While I could certainly see Charlie cheating the Titans, why would he need to fake being a thinkamancer? The Tool was infantry, aside from rocking out, he wouldn't have any native talent to the other capabilities the hammer grants him. Are we assuming Judy was a master runner before she gained the arkenshoes?

I guess a non-thinkamancer could attune to the disc, but given that the disc has so many thinkamancer-related powers, I figured that only a thinkamancer could unlock it's true potential. I could be wrong.

I'm not sure Stanley was meant to have the Arkenhammer either. Jillian seems a better match based on personality. Maybe only a carnymancer can unlock it's true potential? It does seem suited for a warlord, though.

The Arkenshoes does not seem to play to any specific type of caster. Maybe it's all based on personality anyway.


The dish and the shoes have been attuned to multiple people. Someone might be fated to pick up one of the items, but that doesn't make them the only possible wielder.

They have? There may be more than one possible wielder for a given tool, but they do seem to reject some people.


Ansom wasn't attuned. Anyone can strike down the uncroaked with the pliers. Decryption is an incredible power, but I wasn't talking about competitive balance, I was saying that Wanda has done only one until very recently, whereas Charlie and even Stanley have a host of powers. If there is a kind of competitive balance, the hammer needs to out something major in the future, as tools go it's a bit underwhelming.

I think that like croakamancy, the Arkenpliers are a one-trick-pony. But it's a pretty good trick. Yes, the Hammer seems to be the least powerful from what we have seen. But it was pretty nasty in close combat. Remember the "Van der Graaf" thing? Maybe it can do more like that. Don't underestimate the dance-fighting bonus either.

Wayson
2013-11-19, 04:04 PM
No, it would certainly flow better, but for whatever reason that isn't happening. Also, apparently something horrible happened recently that's brought him into contact with the police all week. From the tone of the update, I'd hazard to guess something happened to someone close to him.

Something horrible, or tragic, or unexpected, or catastrophic, or unusual is always happening to Rob. He is a fount of neverending excuses, but note that nothing is ever his fault. It's Xin's personal problems, it's Xin taking a break to deal with her mother's passing, it's Xin deciding she doesn't want to draw anymore, it's the lack of a new artist, it's computer problems, it's mysterious-personal-police drama, it's the new artist getting used to the art, or whatever.

I like Erfworld's storyline, but now that Xin's gone the story is the only thing holding me to the 'comic'. I wonder how true that is for many other readers.

Dacia Brabant
2013-11-19, 07:51 PM
Now that Xin's gone, I'm not sure I'll stick with it. When she first came on the difference in artistic tone was jarring since it was such a departure from Jamie's, but once I got accustomed to it I really enjoyed the meticulous level of detail she put into each frame.

Maybe the new guy will get there, assuming Rob doesn't cancel the whole operation because it's no longer meeting his quarterly earnings demands for his Erf Inc shareholders or whatever it is that's driving his fundraising quotas. Seriously, the next presidential candidates should hire this guy to do their crowdfunding. Anyway, that rant aside maybe the new guy will get to that level but right now there's not much that's keeping me hanging around.

ThirdEmperor
2013-11-19, 07:56 PM
Have we even gotten a full comic since the Kickstarter to teach new-artist-person how to draw the comic happened?

Or are they seriously asking for more money without having delivered a single full strip?

Tebryn
2013-11-19, 08:08 PM
This isn't his first venture into donation driven comic creation. It's his longest to be sure but Rob has done stuff like this before. Added on top of everything else I think his fan base is going to start to get effected but people are still more than willing to throw him money so he's doing -something- right.

Legato Endless
2013-11-19, 10:34 PM
I'm not sure Stanley was meant to have the Arkenhammer either. Jillian seems a better match based on personality. Maybe only a carnymancer can unlock it's true potential? It does seem suited for a warlord, though.

Well there has been a lot of speculation on that front, what with Jillian's jester wielding a hammer in her mind scape.


They have? There may be more than one possible wielder for a given tool, but they do seem to reject some people.

The two witches who were at war with Charlie and defeated by Judy were attuned. Yes, at the very least they have rejected every Royal to come in contact with them.


Something horrible, or tragic, or unexpected, or catastrophic, or unusual is always happening to Rob. He is a fount of neverending excuses, but note that nothing is ever his fault.

Very true. I was more informing than excusing. I don't like making too many assumptions about someone I've never met and only interact with in a vague way on the internet, but his behavior is...probably rooted in more than we're hearing. I sort of wonder if he suffers from depression. Again though, idle speculation.

Anteros
2013-11-19, 10:53 PM
Now that Xin's gone, I'm not sure I'll stick with it. When she first came on the difference in artistic tone was jarring since it was such a departure from Jamie's, but once I got accustomed to it I really enjoyed the meticulous level of detail she put into each frame.

Maybe the new guy will get there, assuming Rob doesn't cancel the whole operation because it's no longer meeting his quarterly earnings demands for his Erf Inc shareholders or whatever it is that's driving his fundraising quotas. Seriously, the next presidential candidates should hire this guy to do their crowdfunding. Anyway, that rant aside maybe the new guy will get to that level but right now there's not much that's keeping me hanging around.

Agreed. Xin really made it for me. I am still somewhat following along, but my interest level has definitely dropped drastically since she left.

Killer Angel
2013-11-20, 06:44 AM
Something horrible, or tragic, or unexpected, or catastrophic, or unusual is always happening to Rob. He is a fount of neverending excuses, but note that nothing is ever his fault. It's Xin's personal problems, it's Xin taking a break to deal with her mother's passing, it's Xin deciding she doesn't want to draw anymore, it's the lack of a new artist, it's computer problems, it's mysterious-personal-police drama, it's the new artist getting used to the art, or whatever.

Maybe this time it's true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf). :smallamused:

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-20, 07:37 AM
Something horrible, or tragic, or unexpected, or catastrophic, or unusual is always happening to Rob. He is a fount of neverending excuses, but note that nothing is ever his fault. It's Xin's personal problems, it's Xin taking a break to deal with her mother's passing, it's Xin deciding she doesn't want to draw anymore, it's the lack of a new artist, it's computer problems, it's mysterious-personal-police drama, it's the new artist getting used to the art, or whatever.

I like Erfworld's storyline, but now that Xin's gone the story is the only thing holding me to the 'comic'. I wonder how true that is for many other readers.

In his defence, these are all legitamate problems. Perhaps he's just an unlucky guy. What I mind the update schedule failing when a certain thing was promised, but he's usually prompt and up front about it when some issue happens. It's when he isn't or there is seemingly no reason for the failure that I get frustrated. Either way, excuses are fine, because at least then we have a reason. I respect that.

Lets face it, all kickstarters have their hiccups. Some of them are big, one time hiccups, sometimes their small, ongoing hiccups, and sometimes no matter what you do, its never enough for your goals. Its easy to underestimate something. I've done it with shipping costs for artwork I've created. I've seen even the Giant underestimate shipping costs. Honestly, the prices go up and up, and the kick starters don't account for an increase in price generally in their goal. Even if they go over their goal, that's generally just more orders to fund, too.

Granted, I've expressed my frustration at the update schedule before, but I don't feel that he's blaming anyone. He wants the product a certain way, and refuses to give us a product that isn't in his standards, as an artist should. Honestly, I haven't paid him anything, so perhaps I don't feel a reason to be angry. But would you rather have paid for a large clump of subpar updates, without pictures? You want the product you paid for. And if you do, you'll have to wait.

I think Rob would be serviced better by less ambitious goals, or a "whenever" update schedule, instead of promises for comics at certain times. I dunno.

Fjolnir
2013-11-21, 04:25 PM
New update, Trem is certainly moving into the role of ruler fairly quickly.


This is the point where we start to see everything start to shift. Charlie being a master mercenary with his finger in every pie is no longer being considered an asset by those he wants to ally with. Whether or not this dossier changes more than where the lines of permissible activity is for Charlie in this theater remains to be seen, but I think this is another step towards "Everyone against Charlescomm" where the major sides end up drawing lines that at least marginalize his influence and his lashing back against it will show his true colors to at least the members of the West such as Jetstone, TV, and GK..

Miklus
2013-11-21, 06:14 PM
New update, Trem is certainly moving into the role of ruler fairly quickly.

Tremmenis is awesome. And really, who would want to touch Charlescomm with a ten foot pole?

Oh, and I will continue to read this comic for sure. To all of you who gave money...Get over it already. Kickstarter is a silly concept anyway. Why not buy a hamstrad T-shirt instead, at least you would have that.

Seerow
2013-11-21, 06:37 PM
I just went over to the Erf forums and notice a complete lack of anyone saying anything about the news regarding Book 3's delays.

I guess everyone who might have a problem with it has long since abandoned the forum and/or comic? Or Rob is actively moderating any response.


On the bright side, the trip over to those forums reminded me that What-if XKCD was a thing! Have lots of new stuff to read now.

Anteros
2013-11-21, 06:41 PM
I just went over to the Erf forums and notice a complete lack of anyone saying anything about the news regarding Book 3's delays.

I guess everyone who might have a problem with it has long since abandoned the forum and/or comic? Or Rob is actively moderating any response.


On the bright side, the trip over to those forums reminded me that What-if XKCD was a thing! Have lots of new stuff to read now.

Given history and basic pattern recognition...I'm going to say it's the bolded.



Tremmenis is awesome. And really, who would want to touch Charlescomm with a ten foot pole?

Oh, and I will continue to read this comic for sure. To all of you who gave money...Get over it already. Kickstarter is a silly concept anyway. Why not buy a hamstrad T-shirt instead, at least you would have that.

I'm not sure the proper response to people being upset that the money they paid in exchange for a promised service has been taken, but no sign of the service paid for has been shown. For years. People have a word for that. It's called "theft" and people do not simply "get over it". I'm not giving up the comic either, but I don't intend to give Rob a cent ever again until he actually meets some of his promises. I even went as far as to turn adblock on for his page. If he starts meeting his end of these bargains I'll turn it back off and consider donating again in the future.

I agree that Trammenis is awesome though. Currently my favorite character.

Edit: To clarify. I am not calling Rob a thief in any criminal sense. I am simply stating many people's feelings towards the situation.

ThirdEmperor
2013-11-21, 06:59 PM
It's going a bit far to call it 'theft'. For something that's based entirely on promises, Kickstarter makes surprisingly few it actually has to keep. You give someone money via a Kickstarter, they're not obliged to do anything beyond deliver the tier rewards.

I'm not saying that Rob didn't waste a lot of people's money, but they gave him that money in the first place with no legal right to demand results.

Anteros
2013-11-21, 07:05 PM
It's going a bit far to call it 'theft'. For something that's based entirely on promises, Kickstarter makes surprisingly few it actually has to keep. You give someone money via a Kickstarter, they're not obliged to do anything beyond deliver the tier rewards.

I'm not saying that Rob didn't waste a lot of people's money, but they gave him that money in the first place with no legal right to demand results.

You may have missed my edit since I didn't put it up until a few minutes after the post. From a legal standpoint it is not theft. From a moral standpoint, it's debatable...but this isn't really the place to debate it so I will concede the point and say that you are correct.

Morty
2013-11-21, 07:11 PM
Finally, someone worked up enough of a backbone to tell Mr. Chessmaster to pull his head out of his backside.

NEO|Phyte
2013-11-21, 08:51 PM
Finally, someone worked up enough of a backbone to tell Mr. Chessmaster to pull his head out of his backside.

To be fair, before Parson, he's probably not had any major ****ups for people to call him on. It's easier to tolerate a slimy character if he gets results.

sihnfahl
2013-11-21, 09:26 PM
Hm, interesting. The 'Charlie' theme continues.

Now he looks to be Charles ... de Gaulle.

Kornaki
2013-11-21, 10:11 PM
What can he really call Charlie out on? The dude genuinely did everything he could to help Jetstone win that battle up until the point that the king of Jetstone had already died (and even financed Trem to be heir). I realize he deserves to be called out on for being so secretive about some of the plan but what happened can't really be laid at his feet as far as I can tell.

Landis963
2013-11-21, 10:56 PM
What can he really call Charlie out on? The dude genuinely did everything he could to help Jetstone win that battle up until the point that the king of Jetstone had already died (and even financed Trem to be heir). I realize he deserves to be called out on for being so secretive about some of the plan but what happened can't really be laid at his feet as far as I can tell.

Charlie insisted that Parson was worth everything Jetstone paid to capture or kill him, and failed to explain that, and Parson got away anyway. So Tramennis isn't seeing too much bang for his buck here. Trem's claiming "breach of contract" and Charlie doesn't have too much room to talk without divulging a lot of secrets for free.

Kornaki
2013-11-21, 11:05 PM
Charlie insisted that Parson was worth everything Jetstone paid to capture or kill him, and failed to explain that, and Parson got away anyway. So Tramennis isn't seeing too much bang for his buck here. Trem's claiming "breach of contract" and Charlie doesn't have too much room to talk without divulging a lot of secrets for free.

Sure, Trem should ask what exactly happened because Jetstone took heavy losses under Charlie's plan, but I think if Charlie just explains what happened entirely truthfully, Trem should walk out of that meeting feeling like Charlie is in fact on his side in this conflict.

Lizard Lord
2013-11-21, 11:22 PM
Sure, Trem should ask what exactly happened because Jetstone took heavy losses under Charlie's plan, but I think if Charlie just explains what happened entirely truthfully, Trem should walk out of that meeting feeling like Charlie is in fact on his side in this conflict.

I believe that is exactly what Tremennis is asking for. Problem is "entirely truthfully" isn't really Charlie's thing.

Landis963
2013-11-21, 11:30 PM
Sure, Trem should ask what exactly happened because Jetstone took heavy losses under Charlie's plan, but I think if Charlie just explains what happened entirely truthfully, Trem should walk out of that meeting feeling like Charlie is in fact on his side in this conflict.

Emphasis mine. Do you really think Charlie will spill all his cards, just like that? Even if he does, do you think Tramennis will believe everything Charlie divulges, because the only source for such information is, well, Charlie? At the very least, he'll search elsewhere for a corroborating source. Which would drive him to talk to Parson, like he was thinking about before everything went pear-shaped.

Porthos
2013-11-21, 11:42 PM
Ok, I've always liked Tramennis, but I freakin' love him now. The verbal take down of Charlie was delish enough. But to basically hang up the phone is even smarter. After all, one of the ways Charlie Wins is by letting him keep talking, letting him keep pushing for an angle, letting him hit that soft underbelly where you go, "Dammit. I hate him, but he's got a great point."

Problem is, of course, Charlie might not particularly like being lectured to and getting hung up on, given past behavoir. Might come back to bite Tramennis in the rear.

But it sure was great to read. :smallcool:

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-11-22, 07:52 AM
Also, please SPOILER your comments about an update that has occurred within a day or two, or at least until someone posts that there is a new update, so someone doesn't get a spoiled page.

Just added this to the OP -

So...New Epilogue Update, folks!

Killer Angel
2013-11-22, 08:12 AM
I like Tramennis more and more... :smallsmile:

lunar2
2013-11-22, 12:35 PM
as someone who has not donated a penny to this comic, and who is more concerned with story than with art, i can honestly say i have no complaints at all for it. also, tramennis is ossomer than either of his ansom brothers.

Psychonaut
2013-11-22, 04:40 PM
You could even say that he's a tramennis incline over his predecessors.

Gez
2013-11-23, 02:35 PM
Hm, interesting. The 'Charlie' theme continues.

Now he looks to be Charles ... de Gaulle.

And a very poor impersonation. I can't imagine the original remaining silent and letting himself being chewed up.

Porthos
2013-12-03, 03:00 AM
New Erf is up. Video Only for the next couple of days.

Yeah. Huh. Both sides gave a little info to the other there, I think.

Charlie can't be pleased to hear that Parson all but calls him a carnymancer.

As for that last panel? Yeah. That's a fair amount of Archons. And nice looking tech to go with it....

ETA::: Looks like Charlie took that 'report' demand seriously. Can't say I'm very surprised at that, tbh. It'll be interesting to see if anything else comes of it down the road, or if it was just the trigger for one last confrontation between Parson and Charlie in this arc.

RMS Oceanic
2013-12-03, 03:22 AM
I like Charlie and Parson sparring like this, because it's fun to watch them pull scraps of information from each other.

Definitely an edge to it this time though. Also the Archon Army is begging for the Imperial March.

Porthos
2013-12-03, 03:42 AM
I like Charlie and Parson sparring like this, because it's fun to watch them pull scraps of information from each other.

I am wondering though, after some reflection, if Parson didn't boop up by telling Charlie off at the end. Or to be more specific, how he told him off at the end.

See, Charlie lives, eats, and breathes on information. He, quite literally, makes a living on it. It's one thing to have information taken away in the parry and thrust of negotiations that you mentioned. But just giving it away? For free? I dunno. Just strikes me as a card that Parson might have wanted to keep closer to the vest.

Although...

I do suppose if there is indeed a spy inside the Magic Kingdom, word of Parson's knowledge about Charlie's status as a carneymancer would get back to him PDQ. And even if it didn't, once Charlie found out that Jack was decrypted, he'd probably be able to surmise that the jig would be up anyway.

So perhaps it was worth it from Parson's perspective just to get the equivalent of stunned slience out of Charlie. :smallwink:

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-12-03, 03:48 AM
I was wishing so hard Parson would drop a Wizard of Oz reference, just to get a rise out of Charlie.

Also: Dat ending. Ohhhh Boop!

HandofShadows
2013-12-03, 04:38 AM
Had never watched the movie version before. Now I wish I had as this one is quite good. Charlie and Parson sparring is ALWAYS fun. And I don't think Parson gave away to much. In fact he gained confirmation that Charlie was a Carny from Charlie himself. Checking your intel is always a good thing to do.


Along with the new epilogue, there will not be a kickstarter for Book 3. They had the funds for the printing without resorting to it. I am sure some of you are quite dissapointed by that.

Legato Endless
2013-12-03, 05:23 AM
Ah, that's good news. Shame about the delivery problem with China.

I cracked a grin when Parson snarked about the final form.

One thing I really want to see in the next book is Charlie pull out the perfect warlord spell. As is, I've heard too much from people, that despite Charlie being the only person close to Parson in competence, has no dramatic tension because destiny says you're screwed. Seeing Parson defeat the warlord he's supposed to fall against would be awesome and silence the fatalist theorists.

Did anyone else get a vague Rouroni Kenshin vibe from the erfworld logo at the bottom? The red color and Jillian's profile made me think, why he is wielding a broad sword for a second.

Dr. Simon
2013-12-03, 06:10 AM
I like Charlie and Parson sparring like this, because it's fun to watch them pull scraps of information from each other.

Definitely an edge to it this time though. Also the Archon Army is begging for the Imperial March.


Not surprising, there's a certain visual reference to either of these (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0272.html) scenes (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0407.html) from Attack of the Clones. Although the music they used on the Erfworld vid was pretty dramatic.

But ... assault rifles in a fantasy setting? That's carnymancy cheating if ever there was! Also probably an excuse for the archons to do the whole Bikini Girls With Guns thing at some point.

RMS Oceanic
2013-12-03, 06:17 AM
Not surprising, there's a certainl visual reference to either of these (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0272.html) scenes (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0407.html) from Attack of the Clones. Although the music they used on the Erfworld vid was pretty dramatic.

But ... assault rifles in a fantasy setting? That's carnymancy cheating if ever there was!


If I were Charlie I'd say it's some sort of Homebrewed Shockomancy artifact.

Although if Charlie can homebrew on the fly, watch out for the tiny rattish lizard guy with claims of dwagon ancestry who calls himself Pun-Pun. :smallbiggrin:

Morty
2013-12-03, 06:54 AM
I can't say that I see how Charlie revealed himself as a Carnymancer.

Killer Angel
2013-12-03, 07:02 AM
ooohh, mind duel! I must say it's a GREAT conclusion for the epilogues.

and yeah, the archons army is impressive. Are you scared, Charlie?

HandofShadows
2013-12-03, 08:05 AM
I can't say that I see how Charlie revealed himself as a Carnymancer.

Look at Charlies reaction to being called a wizard. He is speachless for a moment trying to think of something to say. How often does THAT happen? Better yet Parson did it through Harry Potter so it really gives no clue that Parson has info on Charlies past. I think it was a great move on Parson's part. Low risk, high reward.

Kornaki
2013-12-03, 09:18 AM
Look at Charlies reaction to being called a wizard. He is speachless for a moment trying to think of something to say. How often does THAT happen? Better yet Parson did it through Harry Potter so it really gives no clue that Parson has info on Charlies past. I think it was a great move on Parson's part. Low risk, high reward.

That's it? Maybe it's just because Charlie has no idea what Parson is talking about (the phrase makes no sense if you haven't read the Harry Potter books). And confirming he's a wizard (how does it show he's a carnymancer in particular?) is pretty weak since he already does high level thinkamancy stuff with his dish.

I was annoyed at first that they were going to make me watch a video but actually it was pretty good.

RMS Oceanic
2013-12-03, 09:40 AM
That's it? Maybe it's just because Charlie has no idea what Parson is talking about (the phrase makes no sense if you haven't read the Harry Potter books). And confirming he's a wizard (how does it show he's a carnymancer in particular?) is pretty weak since he already does high level thinkamancy stuff with his dish.

I was annoyed at first that they were going to make me watch a video but actually it was pretty good.

I think it's more

"yer a Wizard" => "Wizard of Oz"

Can anybody go through Inner Peace and see if Charlie was ever referred to as a Wizard?

Bird
2013-12-03, 09:47 AM
As far as making us watch the video goes -- I don't get what the big deal about not spoiling the ending for this one was. What's the big surprise?

HandofShadows
2013-12-03, 10:13 AM
As far as making us watch the video goes -- I don't get what the big deal about not spoiling the ending for this one was. What's the big surprise?

That Charlie has a very large force of Archons armed with high tech weapons guarding him? Or rather ready to attack someone such as GK?

HalfTangible
2013-12-03, 10:16 AM
I think it's more

"yer a Wizard" => "Wizard of Oz"

Can anybody go through Inner Peace and see if Charlie was ever referred to as a Wizard?
................................

YES! He was referred to as a wizard! A LOT!... what was the last IP you read? O.o I mean, him being a wizard was made kind of a huge deal

Kornaki
2013-12-03, 10:21 AM
Well now I feel foolish

Wort
2013-12-03, 10:25 AM
................................

YES! He was referred to as a wizard! A LOT!... what was the last IP you read? O.o I mean, him being a wizard was made kind of a huge deal

I may be mistaken, but the fact that Parson would have knowledge of those events is the significant part, right? Since everyone had to submit to the Deal that prevented them from disclosing any information about Charlie's past?

Bird
2013-12-03, 10:28 AM
That Charlie has a very large force of Archons armed with high tech weapons guarding him? Or rather ready to attack someone such as GK?
I had assumed that Charlie had a huge number of archons. IIRC, we already knew that he had archons all over the world, in places that local sides didn't know existed.

The high-tech stuff didn't really surprise me; we've seen technological-looking equipment from Ace, before. Plus, you know, the Arkendish. We knew he had tricks up his sleeve -- "guns!" didn't seem like a big escalation to me.

Finally, the fact that he's battle-ready is...to be expected, isn't it?

It's a fine update, but given the choice to make it video-only to prevent spoilers, I was underwhelmed. Clearly, YMMV.

Though, to your point, we didn't know that Charlie was about to hit hard right now. So, yes, there's something there.

HalfTangible
2013-12-03, 11:21 AM
I may be mistaken, but the fact that Parson would have knowledge of those events is the significant part, right? Since everyone had to submit to the Deal that prevented them from disclosing any information about Charlie's past?

Er, what makes you say he does? Just seemed like a sarcastic joke about how "special" he thought he was to me =/

Gez
2013-12-03, 11:55 AM
Maybe it's just because Charlie has no idea what Parson is talking about (the phrase makes no sense if you haven't read the Harry Potter books).
Oh, it makes sense if you have somehow access to a repository of memetic phrases from teh intarwebs. The same access that gives you knowledge of phrases like "trolling" and "U mad bro".


And confirming he's a wizard (how does it show he's a carnymancer in particular?) is pretty weak since he already does high level thinkamancy stuff with his dish.
I'm with you on this, though.

Fjolnir
2013-12-03, 12:27 PM
I may be mistaken, but the fact that Parson would have knowledge of those events is the significant part, right? Since everyone had to submit to the Deal that prevented them from disclosing any information about Charlie's past?

He has all the details of IPTSF from Jack (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/08/book-2-%E2%80%93-epilogue-07-%E2%80%93-jack-in-black/), the Deal lasted until he croaked after which he spilled the beans to parson at the earliest opportunity in the Magic Kingdom, it's how Parson was able to tell The Great Minds that Charlie was a Carny.

Miklus
2013-12-03, 12:32 PM
Was it smart of Parson to call Charlie a wizard and let on that he knows things about Charlies past? Probably not. But Charlie is already out to kill Parson specifically and Parson knows it. So it not like their relationship can get much worse.

Charlie slipped up by understanding "Trolololo" and saying "U mad bro". Fairly recent memes. So Charlie is from fairly recent earth or has contact to it somehow.

And the big spoiler was of cause the modern weapon thing. Is it just me or does it have a kind of "Third Reich" feel to it?

Kalrany
2013-12-03, 12:36 PM
I know his name is Charley, but I would laugh my head off if it turned out that he just called himself that and his real name was Harry. Just my 2˘. :smallbiggrin:


...And the big spoiler was of cause the modern weapon thing. Is it just me or does it have a kind of "Third Reich" feel to it?

More Star Wars-y to me.

Wort
2013-12-03, 12:46 PM
He has all the details of IPTSF from Jack (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/08/book-2-%E2%80%93-epilogue-07-%E2%80%93-jack-in-black/), the Deal lasted until he croaked after which he spilled the beans to parson at the earliest opportunity in the Magic Kingdom, it's how Parson was able to tell The Great Minds that Charlie was a Carny.

Yes. This is what I was getting at. Thank you.

Porthos
2013-12-03, 12:56 PM
Another possibility is:

Parson is trying to confirm just how familiar Charlie is with Earth sayings. Parson should already strongly suspect that Charlie is from his world (or at least a close analogue). Constantly probing that idea with various idioms might help confirm/deny the possibility. Or at least help peg down a timeframe for when Charlie arrived. And perhaps even find out if Charlie still has a way of keeping tabs with what is going on at home.

You must admit, for someone who has been here for a very long time, Charlie is remarkably current with modern trends and events.

Dropping in a Harry Potter reference, and getting the response he did might help him on that score.

...

Or maybe he just couldn't think of a sarcastic Wizard of Oz quip that was appropriate and went modern instead. :smalltongue:

Either way, Charlie very well knows what a 'wizard' is, even if he doesn't pick up on the HP reference. Charlie should be smart enough to figure out, once that initial, instinctual 'Um' response was made, that Parson was calling him out. And his lack of an immediate response probably was all the confirmation Parson needed (which, admittedly, I didn't think of as a possibility for Parson's motives). And as I said originally, just getting a jab in before metaphorically hanging up the phone was probably good enuf for Parson.

ETA to not Double Post:


Along with the new epilogue, there will not be a kickstarter for Book 3. They had the funds for the printing without resorting to it. I am sure some of you are quite dissapointed by that.

That's for Issue 3 of Book 2, not Book 3 proper. Reading the newspost, it implies that there is still a KS coming down the pike. Remember, the KS was to fund the printing of Book 2 and to set aside funds for the new artist of Erfworld.

T-O-E
2013-12-03, 01:31 PM
The villain of this comic actually says 'u mad bro'.

Seriously.

multilis
2013-12-03, 02:47 PM
The villain of this comic actually says 'u mad bro'.

Seriously.
other webcomics go further... (last frame of: http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=432)

turbo164
2013-12-03, 03:14 PM
Charlie slipped up by understanding "Trolololo" and saying "U mad bro". Fairly recent memes. So Charlie is from fairly recent earth or has contact to it somehow.


Considering there are common units named Orly's and a warlord named Leeroy Jenkins, the *world* is so full of memes that it's entirely possible that "U mad bro" was the battlecry of King Eyefgee of the kingdom of Derp, rather than something Charlie brought from Stupidworld.

Although it is slightly telling that Maggie thought Parson's memes made him able to deal with Charlie's "weirdness" in Book One.

Mando Knight
2013-12-03, 03:24 PM
Or maybe he just couldn't think of a sarcastic Wizard of Oz quip that was appropriate and went modern instead. :smalltongue:

A Wizard of Oz quip might have showed his hand a little much, though. And when you're playing against a guy who's otherwise basically holding all the cards, letting him know what you know is dangerous...

Tebryn
2013-12-03, 03:43 PM
Charlie slipped up by understanding "Trolololo" and saying "U mad bro". Fairly recent memes. So Charlie is from fairly recent earth or has contact to it somehow.


How do you figure? If he's the Wizard of Oz that'd put him in the last 19th Century. Not at all recent.

Gez
2013-12-03, 03:46 PM
Either way, Charlie very well knows what a 'wizard' is, even if he doesn't pick up on the HP reference.

According to this site (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-mad), "U mad bro" became memetic after 2003. "You're a wizard, Harry" appears in the first Harry Potter book, The Philosopher's Stone, published 1997 and adapted to movie in 2001.

It's highly improbable Charlie would not know about Harry Potter.

HalfTangible
2013-12-03, 04:16 PM
According to this site (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-mad), "U mad bro" became memetic after 2003. "You're a wizard, Harry" appears in the first Harry Potter book, The Philosopher's Stone, published 1997 and adapted to movie in 2001.

It's highly improbable Charlie would not know about Harry Potter.

There are people who haven't seen Star Wars in the world, and plenty who haven't read the HP books or seen the movies in full. It's perfectly plausible Charlie wouldn't know about one specific line in one of the Harry Potter movies.

Porthos
2013-12-03, 05:20 PM
There are people who haven't seen Star Wars in the world, and plenty who haven't read the HP books or seen the movies in full. It's perfectly plausible Charlie wouldn't know about one specific line in one of the Harry Potter movies.

It's one of the more famous lines from Harry Potter, though. Quoted lots and lots of times on the web, amongst other places.

Let me put it this way. Any time I start to type in a phrase into Google and I get 'meme' at the end of it as a suggestion, I think it is fair game. :smallwink:

And both 'Yer a wizard, Harry' and 'You're a wizard, Harry' have meme attached at the end as the either the first or second suggestion. For US Google at least.

Bird
2013-12-03, 05:24 PM
Warning: big spoiler about a future plot point that Rob revealed a long while back...

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, but --we know that Rob plans to bring Parson's real-world friends into the story, yeah? Maybe one of them is already there, talking to Charlie, giving him modern lingo.

raymundo
2013-12-03, 05:58 PM
It's one of the more famous lines from Harry Potter, though. Quoted lots and lots of times on the web, amongst other places.

Let me put it this way. Any time I start to type in a phrase into Google and I get 'meme' at the end of it as a suggestion, I think it is fair game. :smallwink:

And both 'Yer a wizard, Harry' and 'You're a wizard, Harry' have meme attached at the end as the either the first or second suggestion. For US Google at least.

Im pretty fluent in internet memes, and yet I didnt know it was a meme. Though wizard and Harry made the reference pretty obvious..

(also, I have neither rewd the books nor seen the movies)

TheEmerged
2013-12-03, 06:00 PM
Okay, am I making overmuch of the detail, or do we see the GK archons walking around in the formation there?

EnragedFilia
2013-12-03, 06:23 PM
It could be worse. He could have called Charlie a Wizzard. Then we'd never figure out all the potential strategic implications!

Aquillion
2013-12-03, 08:23 PM
Charlie insisted that Parson was worth everything Jetstone paid to capture or kill him, and failed to explain that, and Parson got away anyway. So Tramennis isn't seeing too much bang for his buck here. Trem's claiming "breach of contract" and Charlie doesn't have too much room to talk without divulging a lot of secrets for free.Also, it's entirely reasonable for Tramennis to believe that Parson is not a priority target from Jetstone's perspective -- in fact, there's no reason to think that removing him from the field would have helped Jetstone in the short term, and it might not even help in the long term. (Gobwin Knob is entirely capable of crushing Jetstone with conventional tactics, and without Parson on the field Charlie has no real reason to oppose them the way he has. So if Parson died in this fight, it might not have helped and could have actually made Jetstone's position worse, because Charlie would back out with his objective accomplished.)

Charlie was fixated on Parson because of his fears of what Parson could do to Charlie, not to Jetstone. Tramennis' suspicions that they were played are at least partially accurate.


EDIT: Also, regarding the latest update: I'm surprised Parson didn't just do the prediction for "How would the battle have gone if Jetstone didn't personally use a giant spell?" (Which would be 100% because Jetstone itself didn't use any giant spell, meaning removing it wouldn't change the numbers.) Charlie's equivocation meant that he could interpret the request either way, forcing Charlie to waste a calculation.

reignofevil
2013-12-05, 02:49 PM
I don't often weigh in on the actual story of Erfworld since I was called a piece of good tissue that was ripped out of the community with the cancerous tissue the flair for speculation kinda died in me.

But I do recall arguing as far back as part one of book two that Parson needed to just immediately make his next move on Charlie as soon as this bothersome affair at the bridge was completed. My reasoning was; and stands at; Charlie has basically no income; he has to sacrifice the actions of his units for the battles of others at various contract levels simply because he chose to be a one city side with no warlords. Every single turn he drops 200-500 schmuckers for every single archon*; and without a turnamancer he can't even get more than one out on a per turn basis. His whole economy is based on being neutral enough and imposing enough that merely the threat of him sending a mass of Archons at your capital and croaking you gets you to do his bidding; because as Parson was the only person who actually knew; if he actually had to DO it more than once in a blue moon his whole profit plan in that sector would collapse. Other things that keep him solvent include not often caring about an outcome beyond ensuring he remains loyal to the side who contacts him; and the sheer scope of this operation keeps anyone from seeing the whole picture while they pay.

*A reeeeealy rough number for his upkeep would be like 211,750 Schmuckers per turn; depends on if he has mostly crappy archons or a 50/50 mix or mostly good archons YMMV

Keep in mind that his archon army is expanding which means that this is an expanding problem as he is forced to dedicate at minimum the majority of his newly popped archons to the ever expanding warzone of Erf simply to continue increasing the number of archons that he can pop. He is playing a very dangerous balancing act.

Which means that if you had some ability to continue to threaten him in spite of terrible losses (Decryption); the ability to bear the financial burden (GK gem reserves; Decryption; Dragon Taming (maybe not while at war with Charlie at second thought!), then you could likely bankrupt him and simply by forcing him to defend a capital under siege you could probably starve out his defenders without even taking the walls.

Now admittedly Charlie has a few obvious points in his favor; Arkendish, "Murderous defenses" and that he damn well won't just let himself be starved by an army; he would be able to work out the best odds would be to just rush with his archons and hope he happens to win before a single turn of siege happened. But still these numbers are sound.

Now I admit; I am not watching Rob's stupid video; so I don't know what happened beyond that apparently Charlie got a lot of archons together to finally do some business.

Well I say; best of luck to Charlie because the economics of this fight have never been less in his favor; and that is even BEFORE Parson actually starts trying to be clever.

http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE046_NoIllustration.png

HandofShadows
2013-12-05, 03:12 PM
Sorry, going after Charlie right after the bridge would have been suicide. The forces we see would have still been guarding Charlie and Parson would have been walking into very advanced and heavy defenses with zip in the way of intel.

reignofevil
2013-12-05, 03:37 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but we are still within a few turns of the end of the bridge engagement correct? As to the defenses; I reiterate that the normal course of popping units; decryption; and the massive amounts of cash they have to sustain both would be more than enough to grind any defenses down. I dunno I will retract if Rob gets around to putting the text of this thing up.

Landis963
2013-12-05, 03:46 PM
Also, Charlie's a Carnymancer - a caster. Dollars to donuts he's got a portal he can dodge through once things go south. And if Parson uses it as a way in, Archons can cast any number of things Charlie can use to maneuver. And the Arkendish is still largely a mystery.

EDIT: not to mention the remaining calculations Parson's obligated to give him. And several other tricks I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-05, 05:59 PM
Actually, I'm wondering if the best move Parson has at the moment is to use his allied Thinkamancer cabal to just call up every Ruler, Chief Warlord and Chief Caster and say 'You know what? Charlie's a carnymancer. Trust him if you dare!' and wait for one of his main revenue streams (mercenary work) so start thinning out.

Anteros
2013-12-05, 10:34 PM
Actually, I'm wondering if the best move Parson has at the moment is to use his allied Thinkamancer cabal to just call up every Ruler, Chief Warlord and Chief Caster and say 'You know what? Charlie's a carnymancer. Trust him if you dare!' and wait for one of his main revenue streams (mercenary work) so start thinning out.

Seems a good idea in theory, but I'm not sure Parson has much credibility with the people he's at war with and has lied to multiple times before. He'd be better served by "leaking" the information out there, and letting it get back to them without them knowing he's the source.

Landis963
2013-12-06, 10:42 AM
Seems a good idea in theory, but I'm not sure Parson has much credibility with the people he's at war with and has lied to multiple times before. He'd be better served by "leaking" the information out there, and letting it get back to them without them knowing he's the source.

Who exactly has he lied to? Ansom & Vinny ("I'll go down to my secret allies in your coalition."). Ansom again during the false surrender ploy. Tramennis and Slately by pretending to go along with the parley. Jetstone, Transylvito, Jetstone, Jetstone, and Jetstone. If anything, Parson's exploits (uncroaking the volcano, the food fight, escaping an inferno with no move, getting infantry into the Magic Kingdom) would give him the image of a very potent ally. Furthermore, Wanda's been more damaging to Gobwin Knob's credibility than Parson, IMO.

Radar
2013-12-06, 12:05 PM
Seems a good idea in theory, but I'm not sure Parson has much credibility with the people he's at war with and has lied to multiple times before. He'd be better served by "leaking" the information out there, and letting it get back to them without them knowing he's the source.
That's why the Thinkamancers would distribute the information instead of Parson. They do have more credibility.

Miklus
2013-12-06, 12:12 PM
Actually, I'm wondering if the best move Parson has at the moment is to use his allied Thinkamancer cabal to just call up every Ruler, Chief Warlord and Chief Caster and say 'You know what? Charlie's a carnymancer. Trust him if you dare!' and wait for one of his main revenue streams (mercenary work) so start thinning out.

I think it would be better for Parson to build on what the late king Slately said and claim to have an holy allience with Charlie. State that the Arkentools are proof of a Titanic mandate and that with all three Akentools on the same side, the Gobwin Knob - CharlesComm allience will rule the world! People would stop hirering Charlie in disgust and his side would collapse economically.

Avaris
2013-12-06, 01:06 PM
Non-video version of the page is up... video itself seems to have disappeared, which is a shame as I wanted to compare the two.

I'm sure that in the video the Archons at the end were red, which confused me (as that implied they were decrypted). Was going to point it out, but decided to wait for the actual image to go up. As it is, I think they've been corrected to blue: art boop-up originally!

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-12-06, 01:10 PM
Non-video version of the page is up... video itself seems to have disappeared, which is a shame as I wanted to compare the two.

I'm sure that in the video the Archons at the end were red, which confused me (as that implied they were decrypted). Was going to point it out, but decided to wait for the actual image to go up. As it is, I think they've been corrected to blue: art boop-up originally!

When I watched the video, they were definately blue.

Landis963
2013-12-06, 01:13 PM
When I watched the video, they were definately blue.

The Archons were blue with a red outline in the video, which is where the confusion sprang from.

Kalrany
2013-12-06, 01:28 PM
The Archons were blue with a red outline in the video, which is where the confusion sprang from.

I also wondered the same thing. My recollection had a red glow from somewhere, which is likely where the confusion came from. Likely was changed for that very reason. Thanks!

HandofShadows
2013-12-06, 02:40 PM
Non-video version of the page is up... video itself seems to have disappeared, which is a shame as I wanted to compare the two.

Video is back. Might have removed it to fix is a bit then reuploaded.

MReav
2013-12-06, 06:41 PM
Retconjuration in action.

Porthos
2013-12-06, 11:27 PM
As I get a better look at the last picture now that it's not in video form, am I the only one getting something of a TRON vibe off of the Archon scene?

Maybe it's the glowing blue outline and the architecture of the buildings that is putting me in that frame of mind.

XanKrieger
2013-12-07, 10:41 PM
Soo, any conversation on the incredibly advanced tech that CharlesComm seems to have. Specifically the fact that some of the Archons seem to be holding guns.

Landis963
2013-12-07, 10:48 PM
Soo, any conversation on the incredibly advanced tech that CharlesComm seems to have. Specifically the fact that some of the Archons seem to be holding guns.

I'm thinking Dollamancy/[insert Naughtymancy school here] link-up. Dollymancy to create the guns, Naughtymancy to provide, well, stopping power. My guess is Dollamancy/Shockmancy, although you'd think those would provide laser guns or something.

XanKrieger
2013-12-07, 11:52 PM
I'm thinking Dollamancy/[insert Naughtymancy school here] link-up. Dollymancy to create the guns, Naughtymancy to provide, well, stopping power. My guess is Dollamancy/Shockmancy, although you'd think those would provide laser guns or something.

It probably does shoot lasers, with the clip loading being mostly symbolic and giving CharlesComm the Stars Wars stormtrooper feel.

Legato Endless
2013-12-08, 05:24 AM
It probably does shoot lasers, with the clip loading being mostly symbolic and giving CharlesComm the Stars Wars stormtrooper feel.

I just hope the archons themselves don't start to embody the cannon fodder archetype. There's a real danger of that plotwise since we should be seeing them in mass groups fighting in book 3.

Killer Angel
2013-12-08, 06:39 AM
I just hope the archons themselves don't start to embody the cannon fodder archetype.

Yep, that would be really disappointing.
Of course, there's the fact that an archon's effective abilities, depend from the power it's given to it by Charlie (how much the client has paid for).
This could means that Charlie got to spend resources to give all those archons full powers, and probably this is not possible.

Landis963
2013-12-08, 09:01 AM
Yep, that would be really disappointing.
Of course, there's the fact that an archon's effective abilities, depend from the power it's given to it by Charlie (how much the client has paid for).
This could means that Charlie got to spend resources to give all those archons full powers, and probably this is not possible.

I thought it was essentially random which Archons got which powers (i.e. Fate-run). Now Charlie could probably hack that given his area of expertise, but we don't know for certain.

Killer Angel
2013-12-08, 09:08 AM
I thought it was essentially random which Archons got which powers (i.e. Fate-run). Now Charlie could probably hack that given his area of expertise, but we don't know for certain.

I was thinking to this comic (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F069.jpg).
There was at least another couple of hints on this issue, but at the moment i don't remember exactly where.

Landis963
2013-12-08, 09:15 AM
I was thinking to this comic (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F069.jpg).
There was at least another couple of hints on this issue, but at the moment i don't remember exactly where.

To be fair, the amount of Archons that Charlescomm pops could give Charlie a very wide selection in a hurry. Also if he does some Carnymancy thing to make sure he doesn't get duplicates right next to each other. It's more likely that Charlie simply tailors a party of Archons to the client's needs, then sends them out with Charlie's Rule #3 clearly in mind. ("We are in the business of solving problems for our clients. COROLLARY: Creating problems for our clients creates business.")

Landis963
2013-12-17, 01:03 AM
New update, posted in "Winter Break 2014"

Why should we care about inter-side political vagaries? When we saw a lot of this in Inner Peace?

Fjolnir
2013-12-17, 01:12 AM
Honestly, I think we are about to see how a new side splits off from a parent side, as Prince Axe Bodyspray is not suited for the leadership style that this type of alliance requires...

Porthos
2013-12-17, 02:32 AM
New update, posted in "Winter Break 2014"

Why should we care about inter-side political vagaries? When we saw a lot of this in Inner Peace?

I found it compelling in and of itself. The three main characters introduced so far seemed engaging enough.

I know I'm looking forward to finding out what happens next.

Beats nothing, that's for sure. :smallwink:

EnragedFilia
2013-12-17, 02:52 AM
Axe Bodyspray + Eyesaur + Firstpost + Protip = Rob is still a genius, and I'd be happy to read his work even if it was all straight up text.

CRtwenty
2013-12-17, 04:33 AM
Well it's only one update into this story, so it's a little early to tell where this is heading.

Showing how a new side is created sounds plausible though. Either that or these sides may become some new players in the next book. Seeing a confederacy of sides is pretty interesting too. Erfworld politics can get pretty complicated.

ThirdEmperor
2013-12-17, 06:34 AM
I've got to say, now was not a good time to try and introduce an entirely new set of characters.

Grim Portent
2013-12-17, 06:40 AM
I suspect it's just a short break from the main story to set up some additional plot that will have an impact on book 3.

Killer Angel
2013-12-17, 07:04 AM
New characters, eh? So be it! :smalltongue:

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-17, 10:49 AM
"Snookimonster".

Every so often, Rob provides a really good reason to keep reading. This update had plenty.

Kornaki
2013-12-17, 12:06 PM
Honestly, I think we are about to see how a new side splits off from a parent side, as Prince Axe Bodyspray is not suited for the leadership style that this type of alliance requires...

He doesn't seem like the kind of man you say "Hey, we don't need your kind around here, go start your own side somewhere else!", followed by maintaining a unit drawdown to satisfy a peace treaty.

Landis963
2013-12-17, 03:57 PM
He doesn't seem like the kind of man you say "Hey, we don't need your kind around here, go start your own side somewhere else!", followed by maintaining a unit drawdown to satisfy a peace treaty.

Who said he'd be ordered to form a new side?

Psychonaut
2013-12-17, 09:02 PM
Axe Bodyspray + Eyesaur + Firstpost + Protip = Rob is still a genius, and I'd be happy to read his work even if it was all straight up text.

Personally, my favorite is the So-be-it Union.


Either that or these sides may become some new players in the next book.


I suspect it's just a short break from the main story to set up some additional plot that will have an impact on book 3.

According to the newspost, this is the first of four standalone stories made for the top Kickstarter donors, so I doubt they'll have any impact on the main plot. Might establish some rules/Erfworld concepts that are used in the next book, though.

Lamech
2013-12-17, 09:31 PM
What is the deal with Sylvia? Apparently, she can't die... Or at least she arises again on the next turn. But now she is decrypted? Can she still do that? She seems to have a fair amount of fate on her too. It was the carnymancers, specifacally Jojo who went to great lenghts to make her this way. What is the deal here? What to Jojo trade away for Sylvia? One shivers to think what that might have been, it has all the hallmarks of a deal with the devil.
My theory is Jojo made some deal with Charlie, and cast a spell on her. That spell fated her to die in a fire, just like she should have in the first place! Not defeating Fate, but making it work for you!
Finally, I believe that Fate also stole from other units to make it happen. Sylvia surviving meant other people got shafted. If this was known to Jojo I suspect was unknown. [/unproven speculation]


I just hope the archons themselves don't start to embody the cannon fodder archetype. There's a real danger of that plotwise since we should be seeing them in mass groups fighting in book 3.
They've never been super tough. In fact, I'm not sure if we've ever seen one surviving an attack. They are sort of a swiss army knife of cool stuff. Leadership, blasty, dolly etc.


According to the newspost, this is the first of four standalone stories made for the top Kickstarter donors, so I doubt they'll have any impact on the main plot. Might establish some rules/Erfworld concepts that are used in the next book, though.
It already established that a chief warlord CAN break alliance, and implied that non-chiefs cannot.

Landis963
2013-12-17, 11:15 PM
Personally, my favorite is the So-be-it Union.

I literally just got that pun. :smallbiggrin:


According to the newspost, this is the first of four standalone stories made for the top Kickstarter donors, so I doubt they'll have any impact on the main plot. Might establish some rules/Erfworld concepts that are used in the next book, though.

The difference between warlords and chief warlords might have something to do with this, we might also get some insight into the workings of "spawning new sides" or "units turning sides without Fate interference."

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-12-17, 11:31 PM
I literally just got that pun. :smallbiggrin:


I JUST GOT THAT TOO! HOLY CRAP!

CRtwenty
2013-12-18, 01:43 AM
I JUST GOT THAT TOO! HOLY CRAP!

Same here... I feel very stupid now for just noticing it.

Silva Stormrage
2013-12-18, 02:26 AM
Same here... I feel very stupid now for just noticing it.

I feel ridiculous that even looking at it I still can't get it, I am horrible at puns apparently. Someone feel the urge to enlighten me? :smalltongue:

Douglas
2013-12-18, 03:42 AM
I feel ridiculous that even looking at it I still can't get it, I am horrible at puns apparently. Someone feel the urge to enlighten me? :smalltongue:
So-be-it = Soviet

The So-be-it Union...

EnragedFilia
2013-12-18, 05:49 AM
So-be-it = Soviet

The So-be-it Union...

And here I thought it had something to do with those SoBe commercials...

Radar
2013-12-18, 08:24 AM
I feel ridiculous that even looking at it I still can't get it, I am horrible at puns apparently. Someone feel the urge to enlighten me? :smalltongue:
Let's say its a country, where you don't get the puns - the puns get you. :smalltongue:

HandofShadows
2013-12-18, 08:30 AM
Let's say its a country, where you don't get the puns - the puns get you. :smalltongue:

Darn. I REALLY wish I could give you rep points that that. :)

Silva Stormrage
2013-12-18, 02:31 PM
Let's say its a country, where you don't get the puns - the puns get you. :smalltongue:

Okay NOW I get it, wow :smallbiggrin:

Lizard Lord
2013-12-18, 03:34 PM
Axe Bodyspray made me groan, but the So-Be-It Union was really clever so it evens out.

HalfTangible
2013-12-18, 03:41 PM
Axe Bodyspray made me groan, but the So-Be-It Union was really clever so it evens out.

I would've forgiven Axe if he'd talked/looked like the Dota character.

"Axe is not salad!"

The Glyphstone
2013-12-18, 05:24 PM
Axe Bodyspray made me groan, but the So-Be-It Union was really clever so it evens out.

I just got the second joke. Let me find a bandaid for the new bruise on my forehead.

Forrestfire
2013-12-19, 02:21 PM
I'll add my name to the list of people who didn't get it until now :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-19, 02:52 PM
One benefit to putting up with a friend who's addicted to puns is that I generally get them.

One downside to putting up with a friend who's addicted to puns is that I generally get them.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-12-19, 03:55 PM
One benefit to putting up with a friend who's addicted to puns is that I generally get them.

One downside to putting up with a friend who's addicted to puns is that I generally get them.

A cookie for your win/loss.

turbo164
2013-12-21, 01:39 AM
It's hard to explain puns to a kleptomaniac because they take things literally.

:smallwink:

HalfTangible
2013-12-21, 02:40 AM
It's hard to explain puns to a kleptomaniac because they take things literally.

:smallwink:

Boooooo. :smallwink::smalltongue:

EnragedFilia
2013-12-21, 03:05 AM
It's hard to explain puns to a kleptomaniac because they take things literally.

:smallwink:

I can do you one better, and with just the opening paragraph (http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Your_butt)!

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-24, 02:11 PM
Update for Winter Break 2014.

It's going about as I expected.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-12-24, 02:23 PM
Update for Winter Break 2014.

It's going about as I expected.

Minus the promised Xin art, however.

Miklus
2013-12-24, 07:55 PM
An update! And on christmas eve no less.

So this all happens after the fall of FAQ. Will Jillian show up as a mercenary?

Beige Dragon
2013-12-25, 05:07 AM
How is it after the fall of Faq? Presumably, Banhammer published the book, then when a new library was constructed, it appeared there. Maybe its because i'm too tired. 3 late nights in a row reading from erf world #1 up to the most recent update.

HandofShadows
2013-12-25, 06:06 AM
Books like that are only published after the Fall of a Side. For Banhammer's book to be in the library, the side must have already fallen.

Gez
2013-12-25, 06:39 AM
Minus the promised Xin art, however.
That something is missing is what makes it as expected.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-25, 08:31 AM
Books like that are only published after the Fall of a Side. For Banhammer's book to be in the library, the side must have already fallen.

The way it sounds, the book isn't one of the dry historical tomes that automagically publishes at the end of a side, but a manually-published book of philosophy.

HandofShadows
2013-12-25, 08:44 AM
Read the end of the 2nd paragraph again. Faq is stated as being past tense and even Banhammer would not have been stupid enough to publish a book that described Faq while it still existed. Banhammer's book was sent out by Automagical publishing after Faq's fall.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-25, 08:50 AM
There is insufficient data on whether the publishing spell can be delayed like that, but the book cannot be one of the automagic historical accounts, as those are explicitly exactly that, and wouldn't be full of Banhammer's wonky thoughts on Peace.

Miklus
2013-12-25, 08:57 AM
How is it after the fall of Faq? Presumably, Banhammer published the book, then when a new library was constructed, it appeared there. Maybe its because i'm too tired. 3 late nights in a row reading from erf world #1 up to the most recent update.

Come to think of it... You might be right. This is not an auto-generated book. Faq could still be intact at the time Lord Crush reads it.

But I really like how Lord Crush thought of the book. :smallamused:

This was King Banhammers legacy, all that will ever be remembered of him and the court of Faq... A book that almost no one reads and those few that do think it is crap. Yeah, I don't like Banhammer.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-25, 09:04 AM
In fact, reading back through Inner Peace, Dame Branch has apparently read the book (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/01/inner-peace-through-superior-firepower-%E2%80%93-episode-058/), so yes it was published while Faq stood.

Landis963
2013-12-25, 09:57 AM
In fact, reading back through Inner Peace, Dame Branch has apparently read the book (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/01/inner-peace-through-superior-firepower-%E2%80%93-episode-058/), so yes it was published while Faq stood.

She did mention reading them "in Faq's library." It could very easily have been authored, but not "published," until Banhammer's death and Faq's fall.

slayerx
2013-12-25, 10:11 AM
Read the end of the 2nd paragraph again. Faq is stated as being past tense and even Banhammer would not have been stupid enough to publish a book that described Faq while it still existed. Banhammer's book was sent out by Automagical publishing after Faq's fall.

Not exactly... afterall far off sides knew of Faq as a mercenary side. The book would likely not detail where faq was so there is little risk in letting other sides know about its existance so long as they don't know WHERE it exists. Granted, there could be some risk if the book detailed how they stayed hidden since it would give people a clue on how to look for them; but even then looking for Faq would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack. I mean Charlie has archons that can see through foolamancy and even he wasn't ever able to locate Faq before the first time it fell... Though given what importance Banhammer placed on the pursuit of peace i think he might consider spreading Faq's knowledge to be worth that risk

Also the automagical publishing was said to apply to tomes that automatically detail a sides history... nothing was said about it applying to any books authored by the side


There is insufficient data on whether the publishing spell can be delayed like that, but the book cannot be one of the automagic historical accounts, as those are explicitly exactly that, and wouldn't be full of Banhammer's wonky thoughts on Peace.

Well Banhammer DID have a signamncer. When banhammer saw doom coming to his city, its possible that he emptied the treasury in order to have the book published before his fall.


In fact, reading back through Inner Peace, Dame Branch has apparently read the book (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/01/inner-peace-through-superior-firepower-%E2%80%93-episode-058/), so yes it was published while Faq stood.

Olive claimed the book from FAQ's own library. Even if the book was published, its unlikley it would pop up in haffaton of all places; As crush pointed out, with the number of sides that have existed throughout the history of erfworld, it is unlikely that you would find a book in your library from a side you have heard of (much less one you are currently fighting)

hajo
2013-12-25, 10:50 AM
reading back through Inner Peace, Dame Branch has apparently read the book (http://www.erfworld.com/2013/01/inner-peace-through-superior-firepower-%E2%80%93-episode-058/),
so yes it was published while Faq stood.

As I understand it, she captured FAQ, complete with library, so she read the (one and only) book at the source - no publishing involved.

OTOH, the story is set in a recent-enough time for Crush to have a chance to meet with "our" heros, and I look forward to some dialog with Parson/Crush/Trem etc.

I mean, a team with Parson, Sizemore, Ace, Crush would be awesome :smallamused:

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-26, 09:19 AM
I can see Banhammer using his entire defense budget to publish a book of his philosophical mutterings.

Legato Endless
2013-12-26, 10:48 AM
So if this is the way publishing works, the only way for me as a warlord to find new books is to go take another side's library. No wonder Faq was so ignorant, they had absolutely no information about the world at all. No eye witness accounts beyond their pariah warlords, and a completely random smattering of old tomes they never updated. Banhammer is like some parody of adolescence on the internet. I read 3 books. I know all the answers to everything.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-26, 11:10 AM
So if this is the way publishing works, the only way for me as a warlord to find new books is to go take another side's library. No wonder Faq was so ignorant, they had absolutely no information about the world at all. No eye witness accounts beyond their pariah warlords, and a completely random smattering of old tomes they never updated. Banhammer is like some parody of adolescence on the internet. I read 3 books. I know all the answers to everything.

Libraries aren't a Side thing, they're a City thing, and the update suggests that it's possible to expand an existing one, though i suspect there's a limit to how big one can be.

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-26, 01:55 PM
Apparently, level 12 is a systemic cap. Although with that many books, how do you find anything?

Landis963
2013-12-26, 02:10 PM
Apparently, level 12 is a systemic cap. Although with that many books, how do you find anything?

If there's a garrison unit or caster with a particular interest in the library, I guess they could keep it organized. If the Ruler agrees of course.

EnragedFilia
2013-12-26, 06:59 PM
So if this is the way publishing works, the only way for me as a warlord to find new books is to go take another side's library. No wonder Faq was so ignorant, they had absolutely no information about the world at all. No eye witness accounts beyond their pariah warlords, and a completely random smattering of old tomes they never updated. Banhammer is like some parody of adolescence on the internet. I read 3 books. I know all the answers to everything.

Even better: I sat around talking with all my buddies about how everything works and why everything would be better if it worked the way we all want it to for the last 30 years, that makes me a philosopher! Or possibly an old hippy who won't let go of the '60s...

He might have at least kept in contact with the magic kingdom, although their perspective on things is already demonstrated to be pretty one-sided as well.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-26, 07:25 PM
If a person wanted to game the library system, what you could do is take a city, relocate all the books you care about (we've seen a book can be removed from a library with that one borrowed book, though it's possible the library vanishing would cause the book to depop), raze the city, rebuild it with as large a library as possible, and repeat. Though I suspect this would be rather expensive.

Matuse
2013-12-27, 08:00 AM
It's probably possible to raze a single building rather than the entire city. It might be more expensive on a per-building basis, but far cheaper than burning down the whole place.

But still...what would be the point? If all you end up with are hundreds of books of dry battle descriptions of sides you've never heard of, then it's a waste. There hasn't been a Parson before Charlie, and Charlie certainly wouldn't publish any of his tricks. Nobody prior to Charlie seems to have ever had a militarily creative bone in their entire body.

NEO|Phyte
2013-12-27, 09:31 AM
The point would be to increase your sample size to improve the odds of finding useful knowledge. Lord Crush, for instance, has interest in finding records of sides that manage long periods of stability, to see how they managed it, and how they screwed up in the end.

Landis963
2013-12-27, 12:49 PM
It's probably possible to raze a single building rather than the entire city. It might be more expensive on a per-building basis, but far cheaper than burning down the whole place.

But still...what would be the point? If all you end up with are hundreds of books of dry battle descriptions of sides you've never heard of, then it's a waste. There hasn't been a Parson before Charlie, and Charlie certainly wouldn't publish any of his tricks. Nobody prior to Charlie seems to have ever had a militarily creative bone in their entire body.

Well, Judy might've. Of course, Olive saw to that.

EnragedFilia
2013-12-27, 05:16 PM
It's probably possible to raze a single building rather than the entire city. It might be more expensive on a per-building basis, but far cheaper than burning down the whole place.

But still...what would be the point? If all you end up with are hundreds of books of dry battle descriptions of sides you've never heard of, then it's a waste. There hasn't been a Parson before Charlie, and Charlie certainly wouldn't publish any of his tricks. Nobody prior to Charlie seems to have ever had a militarily creative bone in their entire body.

Better yet, it might be possible to "sell back" city improvements (a somewhat common mechanic in strategy games that involve city management) to recover a portion of their cost. However, a library rebuilt in that same city might just produce the same selection of books rather than another randomized set (also a mechanic I've encountered in strategy games, usually when the allegedly random properties of something are actually determined at world creation).

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-30, 12:49 PM
Actually, given what we've seen people do to towers, it's probably possible for a Dirtamancer to 'upgrade' any building, for a side willing to spend the Schmuckers.

Winterwind
2013-12-31, 06:24 AM
It's amazing how after a mere three text updates, Lord Crush is well on his way to become one of my favourite characters of this whole setting. There's just something about how calm and thoughtful he stays, no matter what situation he finds himself in, be it being suddenly asked to turn by an erstwhile ally or exchanging banter with a court jester, that's utterly awesome. Also provides a nice contrast after Inner Peace, with Jillian as main point-of-view character, who is pretty much the exact opposite.

EnragedFilia
2013-12-31, 06:32 AM
It's amazing how after a mere three text updates, Lord Crush is well on his way to become one of my favourite characters of this whole setting. There's just something about how calm and thoughtful he stays, no matter what situation he finds himself in, be it being suddenly asked to turn by an erstwhile ally or exchanging banter with a court jester, that's utterly awesome. Also provides a nice contrast after Inner Peace, with Jillian as main point-of-view character, who is pretty much the exact opposite.

Except in combat. Jillian has always been calm and calculating in a fight, while Crush hasn't actually had any combat scenes yet.

And for everyone that didn't see it yet, new update.

Wayson
2013-12-31, 11:30 AM
It's amazing how after a mere three text updates, Lord Crush is well on his way to become one of my favourite characters of this whole setting. There's just something about how calm and thoughtful he stays, no matter what situation he finds himself in, be it being suddenly asked to turn by an erstwhile ally or exchanging banter with a court jester, that's utterly awesome. Also provides a nice contrast after Inner Peace, with Jillian as main point-of-view character, who is pretty much the exact opposite.

Let's see how calm Crush remains when his mother dies and his side's cities burn. I imagine we will see a slightly less calm Crush if that occurs.

HandofShadows
2013-12-31, 11:58 AM
So your say Crush might be crushed by his losses? :smallconfused:

Rogar Demonblud
2013-12-31, 11:59 AM
I think he means it'll go more like "Crush CRUSH!"

Killer Angel
2014-01-01, 05:59 AM
The only member of Clan McClown... can I facepalm, while I smile?

RMS Oceanic
2014-01-01, 04:50 PM
Dunkin raises an excellent point about how some people cannot be persuaded by silly things like facts and the absolute truth. That's definitely what this situation feels like.

CRtwenty
2014-01-01, 07:12 PM
Except in combat. Jillian has always been calm and calculating in a fight, while Crush hasn't actually had any combat scenes yet.

And for everyone that didn't see it yet, new update.

Well Crush is still a Warlord, and evidently has some experience under his belt. Even if he's more of a thinker fighting is something that should be natural to him.

Anyway is Dunkin just a regular fool? Or a Foolamancer? I'm guessing the former, since the text would probably have explicitly said if he was a caster.

Also it's almost certain that we'll be seeing a Dunkin Donuts joke sometime in the near future. :smalltongue:

Fjolnir
2014-01-02, 05:17 AM
We already did with Duncan Scone, CWL of Faq, formerly a unit of Jitterati....

HandofShadows
2014-01-06, 02:17 PM
New one up!

Scrofula makes Stanley look smart AND a good ruler. :smallamused:

Porthos
2014-01-06, 02:42 PM
Prediction:

Scrofula will, of course, ignore the battle plan since neither Crush nor McClown made him think it was his idea.

Instead, Scrofula will off-handledly give it to Axe, like he did the Sudoku puzzle, and he will realize that it is a sound plan and implement it. Either by doing it himself or by regicide.

The way I see it, Duncan realized that everything was falling apart when Scrofula demanded to know who was giving him information. So he sacrificed himself to give the plan a fighting chance.

Plus he got to tell Scrofula just what he thought of him to his face. Bonus right there. :smalltongue:

Lizard Lord
2014-01-06, 02:46 PM
Dunkin! NOOOOOO! :smalleek::smallfrown:

EnragedFilia
2014-01-06, 04:01 PM
See, what they did wrong is

starting off with telling Scrofula why his current 'plan' of "trust Bullyclub not to destroy us" is suicidal, instead of starting with telling him how he can beat Billyclub their own game and end up looking like a genius. Hearing the first part made him inclined to not listen to the second part.

Oh well, this way Crush either gets to be a genius or gets to lose everything and teach us a lesson about how Erfworld has always worked until Parson showed up to break it. Either one is potentially important.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-01-06, 04:52 PM
That's the first time we've seen someone get disbanded, right?

NEO|Phyte
2014-01-06, 04:53 PM
That's the first time we've seen someone get disbanded, right?

It's the first time we've had it described, but a gwiffon got disbanded back in Inner Peace.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-01-06, 04:55 PM
It's the first time we've had it described, but a gwiffon got disbanded back in Inner Peace.

Right, alright, thought so. It was sad. :smallfrown:

Miklus
2014-01-06, 06:34 PM
Prediction:

Scrofula will, of course, ignore the battle plan since neither Crush nor McClown made him think it was his idea.

Instead, Scrofula will off-handledly give it to Axe, like he did the Sudoku puzzle, and he will realize that it is a sound plan and implement it. Either by doing it himself or by regicide.

The way I see it, Duncan realized that everything was falling apart when Scrofula demanded to know who was giving him information. So he sacrificed himself to give the plan a fighting chance.

Plus he got to tell Scrofula just what he thought of him to his face. Bonus right there. :smalltongue:

Exept that Scrofula left the battleplan on the floor.

Porthos
2014-01-06, 06:40 PM
Exept that Scrofula left the battleplan on the floor.

Then he picks it up later. Or Axe picks it up. Plenty of ways for it to wind up in the hands of someone who can use it.

Bascially, I am saying that Dunkin mouthed off for a reason, and the reason I gave seems at least a little possible.

Fjolnir
2014-01-06, 07:02 PM
While we have seen things get disbanded (the afforementioned gwiffon in innner peace), this is the first time we see anything that is arguably sentient get the treatment.

Killer Angel
2014-01-08, 04:34 PM
I really despise stupid tyrants. :smallmad:

Lamech
2014-01-08, 04:45 PM
Could it be that many Erfworld units lack a certain level of competence that Earth worlders do? We have selective requirements, and rigorous training programs for positions like intelligence analysis, ruler, or warlord. We have years, thousands upon thousands of turns worth of experience. Even more painful is most Erfworlders don't normally deal with people who are not fanatically loyal to their ruler.

Perchance they are not particularly well prepared for their role always?

Winterwind
2014-01-08, 06:29 PM
Could it be that many Erfworld units lack a certain level of competence that Earth worlders do? We have selective requirements, and rigorous training programs for positions like intelligence analysis, ruler, or warlord. We have years, thousands upon thousands of turns worth of experience. Even more painful is most Erfworlders don't normally deal with people who are not fanatically loyal to their ruler.

Perchance they are not particularly well prepared for their role always?Nah, this is pretty much normal as far as hereditary monarchy goes. For thousands of years, vast portions of Earth have been regularly ruled by people who would make even Scrofula seem incredibly competent by comparison. I mean, he's making stupid decisions and executing underlings for dumb reasons, sure, but as far as a Caligula, Commodus or Caracalla goes, he still has far to go. Granted, most of those people met a violent end, but then, chances are that is going to be Scrofula's fate also, so... yeah, no, I'd actually argue that it is surprising that we have not yet seen an Erfworld ruler whose incompetence would rival that of the worse Earth examples. Perhaps a sign of how the incessant warfare of Erfworld weeds out the truly incompetent that much more quickly?

Miklus
2014-01-08, 07:37 PM
Nah, this is pretty much normal as far as hereditary monarchy goes. For thousands of years, vast portions of Earth have been regularly ruled by people who would make even Scrofula seem incredibly competent by comparison. I mean, he's making stupid decisions and executing underlings for dumb reasons, sure, but as far as a Caligula, Commodus or Caracalla goes, he still has far to go. Granted, most of those people met a violent end, but then, chances are that is going to be Scrofula's fate also, so... yeah, no, I'd actually argue that it is surprising that we have not yet seen an Erfworld ruler whose incompetence would rival that of the worse Earth examples. Perhaps a sign of how the incessant warfare of Erfworld weeds out the truly incompetent that much more quickly?

Truth is stranger than fiction. The incompetent are not even the worst. Some of these people was outright insane. Read about Mary I AKA "Bloody Mary" or Ivan the Terrible.

Rogar Demonblud
2014-01-08, 07:50 PM
Mary I wasn't too bad, as monarchs go. True, she had a body count, but her father passed that number every year, her sister outdid her in the first six months, and her grandfather...

Let's just say the Tudors sucked in general.

Commodus was a decent emperor, especially when you look at those who followed (or even a few of his predecessors {Domitian, shudder}), but he had the misfortune to follow his father, who was possibly the best Rome ever had.

Actually, forget just monarchs. Erfworld rulers are pretty comparable to just about any ruler you care to name from Earth's history. Which is depressing.

The Glyphstone
2014-01-08, 09:07 PM
They didn't call him Ivan The Mildly Unpleasant.

Lamech
2014-01-08, 11:12 PM
That was Iven actually. Iven, the Mildly Unpleasant, Harbinger of Annoyance, Lord of Minor Colds, and Patron of Unwanted House Guests.

Winterwind
2014-01-09, 01:51 AM
Commodus was a decent emperor, especially when you look at those who followed (or even a few of his predecessors {Domitian, shudder}), but he had the misfortune to follow his father, who was possibly the best Rome ever had.This is not in accord with what information I have on the subject, neither with regards to Commodus (who, while yes, not quite as bad or sadistic as the other two I mentioned, and a fairly okay emperor in his early reign, at the end of it had descended into some fairly insane megalomania (renaming Rome to Colonia Commodiana, anyone?), had ruined the empire fiscally for the purposes of his overzealous crowd-pleasing, and had managed to alienate everyone sufficiently nonetheless to still end up assassinated) nor to Domitian (who, in turn, I've heard was a fairly decent and benign emperor, as long as you did not happen to be a member of the Senate), but that's neither the place to discuss it, nor does it ultimately matter much to the point at hand. Point is, given how blind, tyrannical, sadistic or outright insane a lot of the historic rulers have been, Erfworld is most definitely not getting a larger share of incompetency than Earth is, and I think a decent case could be made that it is actually getting less. :smallwink:

ryuplaneswalker
2014-01-09, 02:47 AM
This discussion brings up a question.

Okay there are Loyalty and Duty as stats, could a leader be incompetent enough that statistically the Duty stat would override the Loyalty stat and cause a Mutiny?

The Glyphstone
2014-01-09, 03:08 AM
This discussion brings up a question.

Okay there are Loyalty and Duty as stats, could a leader be incompetent enough that statistically the Duty stat would override the Loyalty stat and cause a Mutiny?

That's exactly what is happening in Transylvito, apparently.

EnragedFilia
2014-01-09, 05:01 AM
The way I read the Transylvito situation, the king's abuse toward Vinny have systematically dropped his loyalty stat, and the entire question of Don's competence and possible mishandling of his side is secondary to that. After all, even if Don is dumping schmuckers by placing an unlimited level of (apparently) blind faith in Jillian, he does seem to have minimized Transylvito's own losses in the Gobwin Knob conflict, since the fighting has taken place mostly in Spacerock territory. Now depending on exactly how important production and production centers are relative to schmuckers (which I'm confident will never be fully explained for a number of reasons), that apparent tradeoff may or may not be beneficial in any strategic sense. But Vinny's personal gripes were depicted in some detail, while Transylvito's actual strategic situation as a result of King Don's leadership has been left much more vague. Thus, I can only conclude that Vinny's decision is based at least as much on his personal reasons as on any belief that mutiny is necessary for the side's survival.

Killer Angel
2014-01-09, 07:04 AM
What I wonder is: everyone knows that duty compels units to act in the best interest of their side.
SO, the minimal thing I expect from a ruler, is to question the apparent traitor, to know the reason behind the actions.

Kornaki
2014-01-09, 10:22 AM
Does duty compel rulers to act in the best interests of their side (and what would that even mean at that point)? Perhaps there is a disconnect in how underlings and rulers see/experience the world because of a lack of Duty for rulers, which would explain a lot of the strife that we have seen.

RMS Oceanic
2014-01-09, 10:43 AM
Does duty compel rulers to act in the best interests of their side (and what would that even mean at that point)? Perhaps there is a disconnect in how underlings and rulers see/experience the world because of a lack of Duty for rulers, which would explain a lot of the strife that we have seen.

I figure it's more like Duty is subjective to each person. Scrofula believes his plan is best for Squashcourt and so has no trouble going along with it. Dunkin believes Crush's viewpoint on such things and thus feels dutybound to help him plan a way out of it.

If I recall correctly, Parson couldn't order the casters to retreat from Gobwin Knob because he had the Uncroacked Volcano idea that he believed might just work, so duty to his side prevented him from ordering the retreat. If he didn't have that idea, I think he'd have been able to order it.

Kornaki
2014-01-09, 11:36 AM
I figure it's more like Duty is subjective to each person. Scrofula believes his plan is best for Squashcourt and so has no trouble going along with it. Dunkin believes Crush's viewpoint on such things and thus feels dutybound to help him plan a way out of it.

Yes, but if there is literally zero magical compulsion making Scrofula pick certain actions (as opposed to other units who believe they can feel Duty making them do things), he might not be able to reconcile Dunkin's betrayal with the idea that this means that Scrofula might be doing something wrong. He might not understand what Duty really is on an instrinsic level, having never experienced it himself.


If I recall correctly, Parson couldn't order the casters to retreat from Gobwin Knob because he had the Uncroacked Volcano idea that he believed might just work, so duty to his side prevented him from ordering the retreat. If he didn't have that idea, I think he'd have been able to order it.

Parson isn't a ruler so this doesn't help.

As an example in the summer updates we had the one ruler who walked into the portal to prevent Gobwin Knob from turning her units into decrypted. What does Duty have to say about that? That couldn't have been "best for the side" unless that phrase literally means 'whatever the ruler wants to happen', which is probably not true because then duty wouldn't let you override a ruler's orders.

Winterwind
2014-01-09, 11:51 AM
I'm guessing when a unit "betrays" the Ruler, it might be because its Duty compelled it to, or because its Loyalty was too low. In the former case, you would want to question the unit what it was thinking; in the latter, you would just want to execute the traitor as quickly as possible. Scrofula, naturally, chose to interpret Dunkin's actions as the latter rather than the former, simply because it suits him and his ego.


As an example in the summer updates we had the one ruler who walked into the portal to prevent Gobwin Knob from turning her units into decrypted. What does Duty have to say about that? That couldn't have been "best for the side" unless that phrase literally means 'whatever the ruler wants to happen',At least the initial explanation of Duty we get in Book 1 (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F084a.jpg) makes it sound like Duty isn't "best for the side", it's "best for the Ruler". And it affects commanders only, anyway, which may or may not include the Ruler.


which is probably not true because then duty wouldn't let you override a ruler's orders.That same Book 1 page makes it sound like it's Obedience that lets you do that, not Duty (then again, there are many ways how "act on own initiative" might be interpreted, so...).

Though I'm not sure if this is all fully in line with what we are told in Inner Peace. Don't have the time to go on a large-scale search through the Archives to check, though...

RMS Oceanic
2014-01-09, 01:37 PM
I'm also remembering Stanley's order to Wanda early on.

"Pick the handsomest guy left and make him Chief Warlord."
"No, Lord."
"Are you refusing an order?"
"I'm allowed. I'm convinced it will lead to your destruction."

Don't think Wanda was a commander, and it sounds like Duty was the chief reason.

Eh, I could be wrong.

HandofShadows
2014-01-09, 01:51 PM
Casters ae command level units. They rearly take the field (Wanda being an exception).

Aquillion
2014-01-09, 02:33 PM
Casters ae command level units. They rearly take the field (Wanda being an exception).
I assume croakamancers are usually the exception, since they both give a bonus to uncroaked, and need to be on the front where the corpses are to use their discipline. And unlike the other unit-making caster types, croakamancy has few applications beyond creating units, so there's no advantage to holding them back.

(Whereas, say, Sizemore can create and lead units in theory, but he has many other uses, so there's less incentive to use him as a leader -- even if his personality was suitable for it.)

ryuplaneswalker
2014-01-09, 05:07 PM
At least the initial explanation of Duty we get in Book 1 makes it sound like Duty isn't "best for the side", it's "best for the Ruler". And it affects commanders only, anyway, which may or may not include the Ruler.

The thing about "best for the ruler" is that a poor enough ruler will inevitably do things that are not in their best personal interests, in that cause wouldn't it be "Dutiful" to remove said ruler from power, put them in a dungeon so they don't end up with their head on a spike?

Lamech
2014-01-10, 08:58 AM
Probably not. IIRC, from inner peace Jillian couldn't face any bared doors of the city she controlled. Trying to confine a ruler to the dungeon would just end up with a lot of disbanded units. You could go on strike like the TV warlords and Ben. Or secretly destroy an "ally" who is anything but, alla Caesar (and Vinny maybe).

Now a caster has more options. Mind Control. Long term incapacitation. (Its mentioned in some bonus material.) Putting them in a bag of holding and rupturing it so nothing can ever harm them again as they are lost forever. (I have no idea if that's remotely possible.) A caster probably could do something like the imprison for your own good.

Kornaki
2014-01-10, 10:40 AM
At least the initial explanation of Duty we get in Book 1 (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F084a.jpg) makes it sound like Duty isn't "best for the side", it's "best for the Ruler". And it affects commanders only, anyway, which may or may not include the Ruler.

I forgot the difference between Obedience and Duty. So if Dunkin isn't a command level unit he has no Duty, and therefore is simply capable of conspiring against the ruler as long as he is not disobeying an order.

Also, from the erfwiki I just found,


Rulers may be affected by some form of Duty that makes them pop or designate heirs, an action that is good for their side but has no advantages for them (and can even be a dangerous option in some cases).

So it seems like I'm not the first person to speculate on what kind of Natural Thinkamancy a ruler may experience.