Did Durkon just get ashed!?

[Fishnet]

He gets, what, a single standard action to cast the protection spell, and Tarquin interrupted it with V's whipped body. Also in panel 5, we see him smoking.

I know this will get answered in a page or two, but I'm freaking out - what if Durkon dies (again) before he gets any meaty character development?! AHHHHH!

Assuage my fears, folks! And no "the plot dictates..." rhetoric either. I want to keep my suspension of disbelief intact! (Something that, incidentally, a lot of the meta-textual commentary on this board totally ruins. Just sayin')

[The Oni]

Without consulting the Oracle of Meta - he's still got a round. Vampires don't burn instantaneously, so he's still got time to cast it. Malack only died because Nale chucked the staff and he couldn't get to in time.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Not to mention Durkon is prophesied to come out of this okay, if undead.

[AKA_Bait]

It looks like under The Giant's interpretation a vampire gets a few rounds in the sun before they totally ash. Malack smoked for six panels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html)before the end. Even under RAW, it looks like a sunbathing vampire might arguably (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)get 2 actions, one in the round it is exposed to the sunlight, a second in the following round before it is "utterly destroyed."

So, relax.

[infomatic]

He's got lots of options. He's still got the staff and V won't be bashing into him again, so he can recast it. Psionics can't be used to counter spellcasting.

[Edit: This may be out, as he dropped the staff and will only get another move/standard action next round.]

Haley still has a bunch of wands, one of which could be Darkness or Fog Cloud. Casting either would shield Durkon from the Sun. If V has Darkness prepared (Fog Cloud is restricted school), she could cast that even within a grapple, as it's non-somatic.

The sun could go down. The clouds could come out. A sandworm could come and eat him (not ideal, but he'd last longer inside a worm than in the sunlight).

[NerdyKris]

The sun is setting in the previous strip, and we've had multiple indications of large amounts of time passing since dawn, when V and Durkon reunited with the party to begin exploring the canyon. You'll note the position of the sun during the Linear Guild's initial attack showed it was noon. And Roy mentions many hours have passed, enough for him to feel hungry, when they were in the illusion. And the sequence of destroying the gate until V appeared was 22 minutes.

The fact that the time has been meticulously pointed out to the reader would imply dusk is about to occur.

[Kornaki]

When Malack died the Giant was very clear that Malack had one action, and he chose it to cast Slay Living, which was made all the more powerful because by choosing to cast that spell, he damned himself to a fiery death for one last chance to kill Nale instead of thinking of self-preservation. If Durkon takes another action here the Malack scene loses a lot of its strength.

[infomatic]

Nale/Z had a surprise round vs. Malack. He didn't get any action at all on that round.

With Durkon, he was never stunned by Laurin (immune), so her dispelling and his (thwarted) attempt to restore the Protection from Daylight happen in the same round.

So he's still got his action in the following round (the round that Malack used Slay Living in) before getting destroyed.

Round 1: Laurin stuns everybody but Durkon and Tarquin
Round 2: Laurin dispels protection spell, Durkon's failed spellcasting attempt.
Round 3: Durkon gets another action, will die if he doesn't get shelter.

Now, obviously the dramatic thing is to have the Sun go down right now — shades of Bram Stoker's Dracula and all that.

[Smolder]

You know, if there were a huge dinosaur to hide under, that might count as finding shelter...

[SoC175]

Without consulting the Oracle of Meta - he's still got a round. Vampires don't burn instantaneously, so he's still got time to cast it. Malack only died because Nale chucked the staff and he couldn't get to in time.Actually they do burn almost instantaneously. A vampire exposed to sunlight has a single action and then is ashed the very next round.

Durkon's action was interrupted and wasted, so unless someone else helps him immediately he will be ash

[JBiddles]

Perhaps he does die here, and gets Resurrected (he's still be posthumous) - his character development then takes the form of him questioning his morality after his experience as a vampire.

[AKA_Bait]

Perhaps he does die here, and gets Resurrected (he's still be posthumous) - his character development then takes the form of him questioning his morality after his experience as a vampire.

Of course as has been pointed out elsewhere, who would be around to cast it?

[Tiiba]

If he gets destroyed, is it possible for him to become ANOTHER kind of undead, like a ghost?

I know that SRD doesn't list undead for that role, but if his soul is released, just apply the template to Durkon that was.

[Nephrahim]

I assumed by the way Vaarsuvius hit him that he's going to be providing cover for Durkon.

[The Pilgrim]

Not yet, but will undoubtley invest the next turn in grabbing the staff and casting protection from sunlight.

[Heksefatter]

No, Durkola will not (un)die. Ok, one should always be careful with saying what the Giant will or will not do, but I really don't see Durkola being ashed so quickly after this plot has been introduced. It would be a huge disappointment to see Durkon become Durkola and then he was just killed shortly after.

[infomatic]

Not yet, but will undoubtley invest the next turn in grabbing the staff and casting protection from sunlight.

By the rules, he can't unless he gets cover. I overlooked that he dropped the staff, and he only gets a single move/standard action b/c of disorientation. It takes a move action to pick something up.

Could V offer enough cover to let him grab staff and cast? Maybe. Or maybe Laurin just lets them sit there — she's not under orders to kill.

Regardless, there are many options that keep Durkon alive. He'll be fine — as fine as a walking corpse gets.


Edit: Now, there's NO reason for Durkon to have dropped the staff by the rules, or lose the spell for that matter. Using a staff doesn't require concentration, and you can't use an Elf to disarm an opponent.

Since he was disarmed, it's likely that Rich doesn't want him simply casting Protection from Daylight on his own, which means that either a) Haley/V/Sandworm comes to help or b) Durkon stays under cover of V and the two of them are out of the fight until whatever happens, happens.

[factotum]

You know, if there were a huge dinosaur to hide under, that might count as finding shelter...

Except there isn't--the allosaurus got turned into a tiny lizard and the triceratops got transported to another plane of existence.

[Smolder]

Except there isn't--the allosaurus got turned into a tiny lizard and the triceratops got transported to another plane of existence.

Too bad there's no way to fix the allosaurus' height problem....

[Matt620]

Another thing to consider is that Laurin is keeping V and Durkon down with her psionics. Durkon would need two move actions, no? One to get up from under V, and another to scoop up the staff, followed by activating the staff with a command word (a standard action). You only get a move or attack action if you're exposed to sunlight, not both.

Without intervention, he's dust.

[orrion]

Another thing to consider is that Laurin is keeping V and Durkon down with her psionics. Durkon would need two move actions, no? One to get up from under V, and another to scoop up the staff, followed by activating the staff with a command word (a standard action)

Without intervention, he's dust.

No, Laurin's currently keeping V down with Tarquin's whip. Durkon proved immune to whatever ability she used in the previous comic.

[Ghost Nappa]

...I really don't see Durkola being ashed so quickly after this plot has been introduced. It would be a huge disappointment to see Durkon become Durkola and then he was just killed shortly after.


Without intervention, he's dust.

Ipso facto, hocus pocus; Blackwing/Haley/Vaarsuvius saves Durkonw/ UMD on the staff (B/H), Darkness spell (V).

Or the meticulous attention brought to the passage of time means that is becomes Dusk and Durkon is no longer exposed to Direct Sunlight. Even WITHOUT his spells, he's got DR 10/Magic Silver, Fast Healing 5, +6 AC, +6 STR, and +4 DEX since the last time they fought: things both Tarquin and Laurin should know from working with Malack. Meanwhile, they should have absolutely NO idea that Roy's Sword is Super-effective Vs. Undead. Nor do they seem to be packing any anti-Vampire tools that we are aware of.

Even without his spells, Durkon is still a fresh melee fighter capable of giving Tarquin a much stronger fight for his money; all it takes is for him to not have the sun beating down on him.

That being said, he is mostly definitely not going to get ashed.

[Kornaki]

I think that the transition from daylight to dusk being the singular round in which Durkon is frying it a little too much of a stretch. It's just a cheap exit from the situation - at that point the Giant should have just never had the protection dispelled. I expect something more active from the Order.

[Smolder]

What does it matter if Durkon is able to cast his protection spell again?

Laurin is a psion, not a wizard. She can dispel all day long and have PP to spare.

[KillianHawkeye]

Judging by the position of the sun in strip 928, there are still at least several minutes before dusk.

[Diadem]

Yeah Dusk is not going to happen in time. The sun is still well above the horizon in the previous comic. In 928 it's probably at least 15 minutes until sunset, and between 928 and 929 at most a few seconds passed.

[Valtiel]

Haley is still unoccupied and has smokesticks.

[Muenster Man]

I'm thinking since there is so little daylight left right now (half-strength?), Durkon may have a few more rounds before he's completely dead. It's a reasonable enough interpretation of how sunlight may interact with vampires, even if the rules make no mention of it.

[KillianHawkeye]

Haley is still unoccupied and has smokesticks.

When has Haley EVER had smokesticks? :smallconfused:

[Domino Quartz]

When has Haley EVER had smokesticks? :smallconfused:

When the Order carried out that ambush against the Linear Guild in the pyramid.

[BrometheusJones]

He gets, what, a single standard action to cast the protection spell, and Tarquin interrupted it with V's whipped body. Also in panel 5, we see him smoking.

I know this will get answered in a page or two, but I'm freaking out - what if Durkon dies (again) before he gets any meaty character development?! AHHHHH!

Assuage my fears, folks! And no "the plot dictates..." rhetoric either. I want to keep my suspension of disbelief intact! (Something that, incidentally, a lot of the meta-textual commentary on this board totally ruins. Just sayin')

Well... he is in the process OF get[ting] ashed... but I dont think its quite a past tense reference quite yet :smallbiggrin:

[SlashDash]

Psionics can't be used to counter spellcasting.

Since Mallack researched the protection from daylight, it's not unlikely to assume he has the same password thingee to dispel it. Which as Laurin says, she is familiar with.



Haley still has a bunch of wands, one of which could be Darkness or Fog Cloud. Casting either would shield Durkon from the Sun. If V has Darkness prepared (Fog Cloud is restricted school), she could cast that even within a grapple, as it's non-somatic.

Or as everyone guessed, the smoke sticks.


What does it matter if Durkon is able to cast his protection spell again?

Laurin is a psion, not a wizard. She can dispel all day long and have PP to spare.
I think Laurin is going to be out of points soon. She used her abilities an awful lot. Consider that we have seen her using *multiple* portals in the dino chase.


When has Haley EVER had smokesticks? :smallconfused:
#858

Either way, Durkon has plenty of chances to escape. Haley could cover him, V could cover him, heck, it's even possible that Laurin would keep him safe (but contained) if she considers him to be Mallack's "child" since she did show fondness to him.

[Jay R]

Since Mallack researched the protection from daylight, it's not unlikely to assume he has the same password thingee to dispel it. Which as Laurin says, she is familiar with.

He used the password to ensure that his spells couldn't be used by a Lawful Good cleric as protection against him. Why would he build a weakness into his own protections?


No, Durkola will not (un)die. Ok, one should always be careful with saying what the Giant will or will not do, but I really don't see Durkola being ashed so quickly after this plot has been introduced. It would be a huge disappointment to see Durkon become Durkola and then he was just killed shortly after.

Actually, I agree with you. But "so quickly after this plot has been introduced"?

The black-robed Vaarsuvius character started in strip 635, and ended eighteen strips later, in 653.

By contrast, Durkon became a vampire in strip #878, and is still one more than 50 strips later. It's already lasted more than 5% of the strip so far.

[Domino Quartz]

Actually, I agree with you. But "so quickly after this plot has been introduced"?

The black-robed Vaarsuvius character started in strip 635, and ended eighteen strips later, in 653.

By contrast, Durkon became a vampire in strip #878, and is still one more than 50 strips later. It's already lasted more than 5% of the strip so far.

In-comic, though, he's been one for less than a day.

[Jade_Tarem]

In-comic, though, he's been one for less than a day.

And V was Darth V for just over twenty minutes.

[CrispyCriminal]

It's a possibility yes, that he can get ashed, or he may not if next strip doesn't have anything to say about it.

If he's had plans about this turn of events though, I doubt he'd end it that soon though, not without exploring the troubles of partying with a vampire. I think Elan would have to put up a fortitude save from a bardic aneurysm later if Rich does a double-turn on comedic/dramatic potential like that. Or at least the demon roaches would sense a disturbance in the force narrative as they cling onto Xykon's bony posterior as it shadows his path to the next gate.

[Benthesquid]

No. It is extremely unlikely that Durkon will die off-panel.

Is Durkon about to be ashed? Well, I'd say probably not, but it's not inconceivable.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Is Durkon about to be ashed? Well, I'd say probably not, but it's not inconceivable.

You keep using that word...

(Hehe. That's exactly the same way Vizzini was using "inconceivable" and exactly the meaning of Inigo's criticism. Score!)

[Cirin]

The Oracle DID predict he would return to his Dwarven Homelands posthumously.

If he's "destroyed utterly" as the rules state when a vampire is ashed, then that can't happen. Turning to ash and being dispersed by the winds means no going back to your homeland on another continent.

The Oracle has forseen that somehow, someway, he'll exist past this point to return to the Dwarven lands. Until then, he'll have some plot armor.

[rodneyAnonymous]

If his ashes somehow avoid being dispersed by the wind, and they are brought to the dwarven lands in an urn, he'd be returning there posthumously. Hell, if his ghost returns to the dwarven lands, I think you could make a pretty good case that he is returning posthumously.

I don't think Durkon will be destroyed here, but not because of the prophecy.

[Prospekt]

Him being ashed now would be rather...silly and disappointing. I mean, never mind that The Giant used his "9 days in a row special" specifically for Durkon vs Malack, because it was that important (and he outright said that was the case). Then he just tosses it aside like that? Durkon's vampirization is easily one of the most important events in this book.

Plus, if he did get destroyed here, he would be ashes... in a desert. As in, sand and wind everywhere. Good luck collecting those in the middle of being stabbed through the gut or choked by a whip.

[Amphiox]

Perhaps V's voluminous robes will cast just enough of a shadow to let him survive until Haley saves his bacon....

[TDG]

The story cuts to team evil. Xykon, Redcloak and the MITD are working through Xykon's astral lair. The MITD looks around at the numerous traps and comments that nobody who broke in would ever escape.

The MITD's eyes light up as he says "Escape" and he vanishes, appearing directly above Durkula. The strip is called Monster in the Darkness ex Machina

The Giant then cackles gleefully at the "Next strips title" thread

[coineineagh]

Not to mention Durkon is prophesied to come out of this okay, if undead.
Unless his ashes get blown by the wind to his homeland. The oracle's prophecies are about as accurate and reliable as a hostile genie's.

[Greatmoustache]

The story cuts to team evil. Xykon, Redcloak and the MITD are working through Xykon's astral lair. The MITD looks around at the numerous traps and comments that nobody who broke in would ever escape.

The MITD's eyes light up as he says "Escape" and he vanishes, appearing directly above Durkula. The strip is called Monster in the Darkness ex Machina

The Giant then cackles gleefully at the "Next strips title" thread

though i'm sure yer just making fun (and i don't think the giant's a fan of *ex machinas), i would love to see that happen!

[Perseus]

Nale/Z had a surprise round vs. Malack. He didn't get any action at all on that round.

With Durkon, he was never stunned by Laurin (immune), so her dispelling and his (thwarted) attempt to restore the Protection from Daylight happen in the same round.

So he's still got his action in the following round (the round that Malack used Slay Living in) before getting destroyed.

Round 1: Laurin stuns everybody but Durkon and Tarquin
Round 2: Laurin dispels protection spell, Durkon's failed spellcasting attempt.
Round 3: Durkon gets another action, will die if he doesn't get shelter.

Now, obviously the dramatic thing is to have the Sun go down right now — shades of Bram Stoker's Dracula and all that.

Wow do I see a non Buffy vampire reference on these forums? Hot damn that has got to be a first!

About ashes being blown to the dwarven land: They did a study in the U.S about the weather effects of dust particles blown from Africa to the Western part of the U.S ... So crap happens you know.

[Kish]

What does it matter if Durkon is able to cast his protection spell again?

Laurin is a psion, not a wizard. She can dispel all day long and have PP to spare.
If Laurin and Durkon's contribution to the rest of the fight is limited to, "Durkon casts Protection from Daylight, Laurin dispels it," Durkon would have Laurin effectively locked down--assuming the rest of the Order ignored her to deal with Tarquin. And more likely, they would ignore Tarquin to deal with her, and if she spent her action every round dispelling Durkon, "dealing with her" would mean cutting her up while she offers no meaningful resistance.

Being a psion doesn't mean you get multiple actions per round.

[Muenster Man]

If Laurin and Durkon's contribution to the rest of the fight is limited to, "Durkon casts Protection from Daylight, Laurin dispels it," Durkon would have Laurin effectively locked down--assuming the rest of the Order ignored her to deal with Tarquin. And more likely, they would ignore Tarquin to deal with her, and if she spent her action every round dispelling Durkon, "dealing with her" would mean cutting her up while she offers no meaningful resistance.

Being a psion doesn't mean you get multiple actions per round.

Well... psion's can use two powers (effectively gaining multiple actions) in a turn with the Quicken Power feat :smallwink:. But even then, that's incredibly draining on her powerpoints and she has to gain psionic focus back each round she wants to do it (there is a feat for that as well, but there's always the chance for failure).

[Tass]

If Laurin and Durkon's contribution to the rest of the fight is limited to, "Durkon casts Protection from Daylight, Laurin dispels it," Durkon would have Laurin effectively locked down--assuming the rest of the Order ignored her to deal with Tarquin. And more likely, they would ignore Tarquin to deal with her, and if she spent her action every round dispelling Durkon, "dealing with her" would mean cutting her up while she offers no meaningful resistance.

Being a psion doesn't mean you get multiple actions per round.

Does the staff have unlimited castings of the spell?

[Hunter Noventa]

Well... psion's can use two powers (effectively gaining multiple actions) in a turn with the Quicken Power feat :smallwink:. But even then, that's incredibly draining on her powerpoints and she has to gain psionic focus back each round she wants to do it (there is a feat for that as well, but there's always the chance for failure).

Not to mention she's got to be running low on power points after all those wormholes.

[Kish]

Does the staff have unlimited castings of the spell?
Doubtful. How many rounds/castings do you think it would take the Order to slaughter Laurin, in this extremely unlikely hypothetical where she decided to spend however many rounds are necessary just keeping a staff-bearing Durkon dispelled? (Assuming, for the sake of the hypothetical, that the staff would run out of charges at least one round before Laurin ran out of power points from so doing.) For Miron, the answer was one round of everyone attacking him + one round of just Haley attacking him + two rounds of Vaarsuvius hitting him with various types of lightning. (Depending, of course, on the threshold of Miron's Contingency spell; if he set it to teleport him away if he ever dips below 90% hit points, killing one of his teammates looks a lot less viable.)

[dric_dolphin]

Maybe Rich is following the lines of mr. Martin and is going to kill Durkula, after all! :smallbiggrin:

[Perseus]

Maybe Rich is following the lines of mr. Martin and is going to kill Durkula, after all! :smallbiggrin:

:rolls eyes:

There are so many things wrong with what you said...

[orrion]

Does the staff have unlimited castings of the spell?

No, it doesn't, but it would also be rather silly for the staff to run out of charges right after Durkon gets it. Wouldn't have been much point in him getting left with it in the first place.




Actually, I agree with you. But "so quickly after this plot has been introduced"?

The black-robed Vaarsuvius character started in strip 635, and ended eighteen strips later, in 653.

By contrast, Durkon became a vampire in strip #878, and is still one more than 50 strips later. It's already lasted more than 5% of the strip so far.

While that's true, he hasn't actually done anything yet. Spliced V had a hell of a lot of action during those 18 strips. I wouldn't look at just length of time in the comic as an indicator.

[ReaderAt2046]

He used the password to ensure that his spells couldn't be used by a Lawful Good cleric as protection against him. Why would he build a weakness into his own protections?



Actually, I agree with you. But "so quickly after this plot has been introduced"?

The black-robed Vaarsuvius character started in strip 635, and ended eighteen strips later, in 653.

By contrast, Durkon became a vampire in strip #878, and is still one more than 50 strips later. It's already lasted more than 5% of the strip so far.

But on the other hand, the setup for this has lasted for 95% of the strip so far, and we haven't gotten to see the Order deal with having a hungry vampire on their hands or Durkon trying to contemplate his new existence.

[JustAnotherSoul]

But on the other hand, the setup for this has lasted for 95% of the strip so far, and we haven't gotten to see the Order deal with having a hungry vampire on their hands or Durkon trying to contemplate his new existence.

Erm... I don't believe that anything other than them meeting Malack and the ultimate revelation that Malack was a vampire can be construed as set up for Durkon being vamped. Unless you just mean "Durkon has been in the strip for 95% of the strip", in which case then, yes. Yes he has, and he isn't likely to die like this (he's well prepared and has his powerful allies near by. Malack was alone with his enemies who were well prepared). He IS however in extreme danger, and within a round or two of being dead and gone, but at this point that's essentially the case for ALL of the OOTS aside perhaps Haley and Elan, and even then they aren't in good shape.

[dric_dolphin]

:rolls eyes:

There are so many things wrong with what you said...

Well, consider this... if Durkula gets ashed, then its ashes could be picked up and taken to the dwarven kingdom. That would fulfill the prophecy, making my prior statement correct!:smallbiggrin: (If that's what you mean with so many things wrong in what I said - if not, please elaborate you opinion!).

I know this might be a longshot, but mr. Martin did create a trend in killing main (or beloved) characters! Why wouldn't Rich do that as well? Story wise it seem quite a sensible (in the sense of being believable, not of being nice) choice! Of course that's my opinion, but I think it's a very possible outcome for the current events!

[AstralFire]

Erm... I don't believe that anything other than them meeting Malack and the ultimate revelation that Malack was a vampire can be construed as set up for Durkon being vamped.

Mr. Burlew confirmed that since around Strip... 4? I think? He had planned for Durkon to become a Vampire.

Darth V would more accurately be analogized as Super Saiyan V, on the other hand, as it was a temporary power-up.

"Durkon's dust could be carried by the winds to his homeland" would qualify as one of those interpretations where the Oracle "wasn't buying it." So far, of the predictions which came true, every single one was straight-forward. Not as forthright as the Oracle could muster, but they didn't require multiple panels of explanation. They happened, and you understood that they had happened.

[orrion]

Erm... I don't believe that anything other than them meeting Malack and the ultimate revelation that Malack was a vampire can be construed as set up for Durkon being vamped. Unless you just mean "Durkon has been in the strip for 95% of the strip", in which case then, yes. Yes he has, and he isn't likely to die like this (he's well prepared and has his powerful allies near by. Malack was alone with his enemies who were well prepared). He IS however in extreme danger, and within a round or two of being dead and gone, but at this point that's essentially the case for ALL of the OOTS aside perhaps Haley and Elan, and even then they aren't in good shape.

Somebody needs to go read the Giant's posts.

He's confirmed that Malack was created specifically to turn Durkon into a vampire and that Durkon becoming a vampire was something he wanted to do since basically day 1.

Now, whether he stays that forever is anyone's guess at this point.

[Jay R]

Wow do I see a non Buffy vampire reference on these forums? Hot damn that has got to be a first!

Every person who says "Durkula" is referring to Bram Stoker's character.

[infomatic]

Every person who says "Durkula" is referring to Bram Stoker's character.


Possibly … Dracula was in Buffy, too.

[e1_conquistador]

A better question is - psionics have a dispel magic power? Come ON.

[AstralFire]

A better question is - psionics have a dispel magic power? Come ON.

Yes, and spell resistance applies to psionics. And vice-versa between psionics and magic.

But the order largely doesn't carry spell resistance, among other things. Would you still be complaining if a Wizard had cast Greater Dispel Magic and Mass Hold Person instead?

[Cirin]

A better question is - psionics have a dispel magic power? Come ON.

That's in the standard psionics rules in D&D 3.0 and 3.5. It's called "Psionics- magic transparency"

The idea that psionics and magic couldn't affect each other in any way went out with 2nd edition. (Don't know, or care, what the 4e rules are on it)

From the 3.5 SRD, section "Psionic powers overview"

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm

[FlyingWoodchuck]

Could he just turn gaseous and slip under the sand to hide?

[orrion]

Possibly … Dracula was in Buffy, too.

... For 1 episode, and he obviously predates Buffy. Nobody saw that episode and went "Oh.. who's Dracula?"

[AKA_Bait]

Could he just turn gaseous and slip under the sand to hide?

I doubt it. If he could, Malack would have done so.

[Popcorn]

What's bothering me is that I just don't see how Durkon could have lost his protection from sunlight completely.

Laurin said she knew how to dispel the protection from Malack's staff. However, Durkon had had protection from sunlight cast by Malack himself soon after he was turned.

This protection was still active when they left the pyramid, since Durkon was not holding the staff at that point, and only minutes have passed since then. Neither was it cast directly from the staff. When Nale killed Malack, he not only threw his staff far away but explained that he knew Malack would not be able to cast his backup protection spell because he "saw him cast it on the dwarf". Had the spell cast on Durkon been contained within the staff itself; whether or not he had already used it would have been irrelevant at that point. See what I'm saying?

So if I'm right, either these facts are being overlooked, or perhaps Durkon is in fact still protected and Laurin does not realise this. It could be worked into the plot - for example if Durkon escapes in gaseous form, letting everyone think he is dead or will die soon. He could retreat to the casket back in the crater, and then come and revive/resurrect/vampirize the rest of the OOTS (a bit of a stretch perhaps, but I can't shake the idea that that lone casket in the middle of the desert + a PC vampire is just too much of a coincidence!)

[Jay R]

Possibly … Dracula was in Buffy, too.

So was California. That does not turn all references to California into Buffy references.

[Amphiox]

What's bothering me is that I just don't see how Durkon could have lost his protection from sunlight completely.

Laurin said she knew how to dispel the protection from Malack's staff. However, Durkon had had protection from sunlight cast by Malack himself soon after he was turned.

This protection was still active when they left the pyramid, since Durkon was not holding the staff at that point, and only minutes have passed since then. Neither was it cast directly from the staff. When Nale killed Malack, he not only threw his staff far away but explained that he knew Malack would not be able to cast his backup protection spell because he "saw him cast it on the dwarf". Had the spell cast on Durkon been contained within the staff itself; whether or not he had already used it would have been irrelevant at that point. See what I'm saying?

It is not the staff that provides the protection. Holding it or not is irrelevant. What provides the protection is the *spell*. The staff merely happens to have additional charges of the spell stored within it. Whether it was cast from Malack's prepared spells, or from his staff, it is the same spell, with the same effects, and can be dispelled in the same manner. Nale took away the staff from Malack to prevent Malack from using the staff to re-cast the spell. Similarly Durkon tried to re-cast the spell from the staff, but was interrupted when V crashed into him.

[Amphiox]

Could he just turn gaseous and slip under the sand to hide?

I'm pretty sure the rules are that Vampires when exposed to sunlight cannot use their gaseous form.

Their actions are actually severely constrained in that state, and many of their regular skills become inaccessible until they get out of direct sunlight.

And they only have a single round to do it.

[Composer99]

What's bothering me is that I just don't see how Durkon could have lost his protection from sunlight completely.

Laurin said she knew how to dispel the protection from Malack's staff. However, Durkon had had protection from sunlight cast by Malack himself soon after he was turned.

This protection was still active when they left the pyramid, since Durkon was not holding the staff at that point, and only minutes have passed since then. Neither was it cast directly from the staff. When Nale killed Malack, he not only threw his staff far away but explained that he knew Malack would not be able to cast his backup protection spell because he "saw him cast it on the dwarf". Had the spell cast on Durkon been contained within the staff itself; whether or not he had already used it would have been irrelevant at that point. See what I'm saying?

The effects of a spell do not depend on whether it was cast by a caster or via a magic item. Nor does its vulnerability to dispelling.


So if I'm right, either these facts are being overlooked, or perhaps Durkon is in fact still protected and Laurin does not realise this. It could be worked into the plot - for example if Durkon escapes in gaseous form, letting everyone think he is dead or will die soon. He could retreat to the casket back in the crater, and then come and revive/resurrect/vampirize the rest of the OOTS (a bit of a stretch perhaps, but I can't shake the idea that that casket was introduced for a reason!)

Durkon was starting to smoke in the panel that Tarquin slams Vaarsuvius into him, suggesting Durkon's protection from sunlight spell is indeed dispelled.

With respect to the casket, it is very far away (back in the crater!) and was used to shield the party from the blast; as such I would say its "introduced for a reason" time has already passed.

[Kish]

A better question is - psionics have a dispel magic power? Come ON.
Come on where?

Laurin is effectively an arcane caster, like a wizard or sorcerer. Vaarsuvius could (level checks permitting) theoretically dispel Laurin's non-instantaneous effects, if she ever uses any, and she can dispel Vaarsuvius's. You're acting outraged that one primary caster class has an ability that every primary caster class has. (And that bards also have.)

[Popcorn]

@Composer99: Well, Laurin did specifically say she knew how to dispel the staff's protections, not Malack's. But you're right about the smoke. I read the comic on my phone and hadn't noticed it before.

[SoC175]

Psionics can't be used to counter spellcasting.If she has Dispel Psionics she can use it to counterspell like Dispel Magic could be used

[Shale]

She probably assumed that Durkon cast the spell on himself using the staff, rather than Malack casting it willingly before his re-death.

[Jade_Tarem]

@Composer99: Well, Laurin did specifically say she knew how to dispel the staff's protections, not Malack's. But you're right about the smoke. I read the comic on my phone and hadn't noticed it before.

Dispel Magic is not terribly picky. You can attempt to dispel based on several different conditions. You can aim it at a person and hope you get lucky, you can aim it at a particular spell ("I dispel the spell that's protecting him from sunlight"), or you can aim at an area and try to dispel something off of everyone. Where the spell came from or what cast it is irrelevant except with regards to caster levels - the more powerful the caster, the harder the spell is to break, so Protection from Daylight from Malack would use Malack's caster level, while Protection from Daylight from the staff will use Durkon's caster level, since that's how Staves work.

Extra Trivia: Wands, Potions, and Scrolls use the minimum caster level necessary for *someone* to cast the spell. So if V casts a magic missile spell from a wand, the spell is cast at caster level 1 (the minimum level needed to cast magic missile). If V drinks a potion of invisibility, the caster level would be 3 for the same reason. That V is a much higher level than that is irrelevant. The fact that the staff uses the caster's actual caster level is one of the reasons staves are so much more expensive than wands.

Hope that helps!

[Knight.Anon]

I was hoping that Dukula could turn into a bat and hide under V, but I don't think he can use his powers being disoriented by the sun. I don't know if V counts as cover from the sun either.

I think Haley has to shoot a smoke stick at him, or throw a bag or something heavy and cloth on him.

V could cast spells that don't require speech, but there aren't many that she has access to that could help Durkula.

If he doesn't get out of the sun by the end of the next round his ass is ashed.

[Popcorn]

Or, if V does have a dispel up his/her sleeve, the best use for it would surely be to undo the baleful polymorph spell. That'd give the OOTS the upper hand, probably force Tarquin and Laurin to retreat, and provide shade for Durkon all at once.

[AstralFire]

It occurs to me that whatever is done needs to be something that Laurin can't simply dispel - whether it be unmagical, instantaneous, or involve knocking her out of the picture.

[infomatic]

So was California. That does not turn all references to California into Buffy references.

Yeah. It was a joke.

[infomatic]

I was hoping that Dukula could turn into a bat and hide under V, but I don't think he can use his powers being disoriented by the sun. I don't know if V counts as cover from the sun either.


Oh, that's a good one. I was not totally buying the hide-under-V's-cloak bit, but he can use his powers (it takes a standard action to shift) and then I could see the cloak counting as shelter.

Doesn't really matter, though. He's not dying here. His predicament is giving both V and Laurin something to do, thus keeping both big guns out of the fight until the bit with Tarquin/Elan/Roy is finished.

[Doug Lampert]

Dispel Magic is not terribly picky. You can attempt to dispel based on several different conditions. You can aim it at a person and hope you get lucky, you can aim it at a particular spell ("I dispel the spell that's protecting him from sunlight"), or you can aim at an area and try to dispel something off of everyone. Where the spell came from or what cast it is irrelevant except with regards to caster levels - the more powerful the caster, the harder the spell is to break, so Protection from Daylight from Malack would use Malack's caster level, while Protection from Daylight from the staff will use Durkon's caster level, since that's how Staves work.

Extra Trivia: Wands, Potions, and Scrolls use the minimum caster level necessary for *someone* to cast the spell. So if V casts a magic missile spell from a wand, the spell is cast at caster level 1 (the minimum level needed to cast magic missile). If V drinks a potion of invisibility, the caster level would be 3 for the same reason. That V is a much higher level than that is irrelevant. The fact that the staff uses the caster's actual caster level is one of the reasons staves are so much more expensive than wands.

Hope that helps!

Minor details, staves have a caster level, always at least level 8, and use whichever is higher of the owner's caster level and the staff's caster level.

Since Malack presumably made this staff himself it's caster level can be no higher than his caster level, and thus it would have used his level when he cast from it and would use Durkon's level when he casts from it (as you said).

Wands, potions, and scrolls all use the item's caster level, which is USUALLY the lowest level needed to cast the spell because that's the most efficient method, but if you want to waste money or care about caster level you CAN make a scroll, wand, or potion with a higher caster level than the minimum, it just costs extra. Wands of magic missile specifically come on the random magic item table at caster levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. But the rules for these three items are in the craft feats, and you can make a wand of magic missile at any level up to your caster level if you want to.

[Cirin]

Psionics can't be used to counter spellcasting.

Citation?

The D&D 3.0 and 3.5 rules clearly state the exact opposite, and this comic does run on the 3.5 rules.

Citation: SRD section Psionic Powers Overview (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm)


Combining Psionic And Magical Effects
The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency.

Psionics-Magic Transparency
Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

[infomatic]

Citation?

The D&D 3.0 and 3.5 rules clearly state the exact opposite, and this comic does run on the 3.5 rules.[/URL]

Here you go: Rules of the Game, Skip Williams:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060613a



A psionic power cannot be used as a counterspell, nor is it subject to counterspells.


However, that same article notes that Dispel Psionics can be used to counterspell, a fact I overlooked in my initial post. Somebody mentioned it earlier. Don't think you can counterspell spells being cast from items, though, so a save from Haley (via wands, smokesticks or the staff) is still an option.

[Perseus]

Every person who says "Durkula" is referring to Bram Stoker's character.

Actually more of a Buffy reference cause they don't think the character is Durkon anymore and that somehow something else is controlling a durkon-like body..... Which is rediculous.

There is no Durkula character in the Order of the Stick, Durkon has yet to change his name.

It is kinda insulting to keep calling a character by something other than his name on a website that host the webcomic no less.

[Matt620]

Or, if V does have a dispel up his/her sleeve, the best use for it would surely be to undo the baleful polymorph spell. That'd give the OOTS the upper hand, probably force Tarquin and Laurin to retreat, and provide shade for Durkon all at once.


Given that Miron is quite a high level, that may not be the best thing to do.

[KillianHawkeye]

Here you go: Rules of the Game, Skip Williams:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060613a



However, that same article notes that Dispel Psionics can be used to counterspell, a fact I overlooked in my initial post. Somebody mentioned it earlier. Don't think you can counterspell spells being cast from items, though, so a save from Haley (via wands, smokesticks or the staff) is still an option.

Really kind of irrelevant though, since Laurin did not counter anything but rather dispelled Durkon's protection spell.

[Oko and Qailee]

It looks like under The Giant's interpretation a vampire gets a few rounds in the sun before they totally ash. Malack smoked for six panels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html)before the end. Even under RAW, it looks like a sunbathing vampire might arguably (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)get 2 actions, one in the round it is exposed to the sunlight, a second in the following round before it is "utterly destroyed."

So, relax.

The Malack burning occurred in one round, this was essentially confirmed by the Giant (he mentioned he only had one round to work with and he said he chose to make Malack use that one round trying to kill Nale).

[Oko and Qailee]

Ignoring the "plot dictates" there are numerous hopes for Durkon:
1) V is bigger than Durkon and can count as cover
2) Haley still has actions left
3) One round can easily mean his next turn counts (very unlikely)
4) Elan still has actions left

[jere7my]

Actually more of a Buffy reference cause they don't think the character is Durkon anymore and that somehow something else is controlling a durkon-like body..... Which is rediculous.

Nah. We just think it's funny.

"Durkula." Hee hee hee.

[Megsie]

Actually more of a Buffy reference cause they don't think the character is Durkon anymore and that somehow something else is controlling a durkon-like body..... Which is rediculous.

This probably has more to do with differing interpretations of the rules of D&D than anything to do with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, since this is a comic which is (tangentially) about the world of D&D.

[Bulldog Psion]

This probably has more to do with differing interpretations of the rules of D&D than anything to do with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, since this is a comic which is (tangentially) about the world of D&D.

Actually, I think it has more to do with an odd literalist interpretation of Malack's discussion with Durkon, than with either D&D or Buffy.

[Perseus]

This probably has more to do with differing interpretations of the rules of D&D than anything to do with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, since this is a comic which is (tangentially) about the world of D&D.

Yes there are different interpretation of the rules, only because a group is pushing non-D&D rules into a D&D based comic. Next we will have people saying he should be sparkling right now and not turned to ash, I mean hey if we are going to take non-D&D rules and apply them might as well apply the one that can save Durkon.

The http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm makes no mention that the vampire is a new person and saying "but it doesn't not say it" doesn't exactly fly.

Bulldog Psion: Well yeah, people don't understand that people change over time. Ive covered this before but the argument usually goes from Malack's opinion/interpretation to "OMG BUFFY" because instead of taking what Malack said and applying D&D rules they apply whatever fantasy they want to it...

[dtilque]

It is kinda insulting to keep calling a character by something other than his name on a website that host the webcomic no less.

Just curious, but who's insulted by it?


Here's how Durkula is going to be saved. Elan casts Tiny Hut, Haley swoops down, grabs Durkon, and tosses him into the magic hut.

Durkon can then start beating up on Tarquin, although it would help if he had a weapon. It's possible he picked up his hammer after being vampired, so maybe he has that.

So why doesn't Elan cast Darkness? I figure he doesn't have it, but he's likely to have Tiny Hut. Why? Because the name Tiny Hut appeals to the goofy side of Elan whereas Darkness does not.

[infomatic]

The Malack burning occurred in one round, this was essentially confirmed by the Giant (he mentioned he only had one round to work …)

Different fight. As mentioned earlier, there was a surprise round involved in Malack's combat, so he has one less action to work with than Durkon. (Rules say Vampires are destroyed the next round, but it don't say whether it's the beginning or end of the round. I'd say end of the round.)

[dric_dolphin]

Actually more of a Buffy reference cause they don't think the character is Durkon anymore and that somehow something else is controlling a durkon-like body..... Which is rediculous.

There is no Durkula character in the Order of the Stick, Durkon has yet to change his name.

It is kinda insulting to keep calling a character by something other than his name on a website that host the webcomic no less.

"Durkula" is just a nickname. We all know that this is still Durkon, but with a Vampire template. The nickname is only due to the fact that we find it amusing to call him in a "vapiresque" manner.

[Kish]

We all know that this is still Durkon
Except for the ones who have explicitly said that this is not Durkon, some of whom have said that they call him...that god-awful name...specifically to draw a clear distinction between Durkon and "that thing wearing his body"?

[dric_dolphin]

Except for the ones who have explicitly said that this is not Durkon, some of whom have said that they call him...that god-awful name...specifically to draw a clear distinction between Durkon and "that thing wearing his body"?

By "we all know", I meant "most of us know or believe" :smallbiggrin:

In the rules, there's nothing that says that "Durkula" is not Durkon. Storywise, I saw nothing that said that as well. Only that he's now a monster (since he has a monster template) with a different mindset, but he would still be Durkon.

Think about having your prefrontal lobe removed... yes, you would be annoying, would have no control of your emotions and probably would become a psychopath, but would still be you! :smallcool:

[allenw]

So why doesn't Elan cast Darkness? I figure he doesn't have it, but he's likely to have Tiny Hut. Why? Because the name Tiny Hut appeals to the goofy side of Elan whereas Darkness does not.

Unfortunately, Tiny Hut is transparent from the inside, so it wouldn't block sunlight.

[Matt620]

It looks like Durkon has enough shade now from the Mechane, but if that's what the Giant goes with, I'm going to be pretty annoyed. You're supposed to get either one move action or attack action and then you're dust the next round, and Durkon took his action trying to recast the spell.

[TengYt]

It looks like Durkon has enough shade now from the Mechane, but if that's what the Giant goes with, I'm going to be pretty annoyed. You're supposed to get either one move action or attack action and then you're dust the next round, and Durkon took his action trying to recast the spell.

A full round doesn't seem to have passed though. As long as the Mechane is over Durkon before he takes his next round, he'll be fine.

[luchifer]

A full round doesn't seem to have passed though. As long as the Mechane is over Durkon before he takes his next round, he'll be fine.

Im pretty sure in D&D dialogue doesnt count as a round. If not, an Evil lord played by the Dungeon Master couldnt gave the hero his long speech where he explain his evil motivations.


edit.. sorry I meant to quote matt.

[StLordeth]

I utterly hate the name "Durkula".

Besides that, before 930, I STILL thought Durkon was the least likely to die of the whole order. 930 just offered an explanation as to how Durkon was going to survive.