"What is this I don't even" moments in film

[Wardog]

I was watching some of The Golden Compass the other day.

Nevermind the liberties taken with the plot, or any of the other common criticism, the thing that really got me was when the children were confronted by the Tatar army, and one of the soldiers set his daemon on Lyra,when
Iorek Byrnison intercepts!

Wait, where did he come from?
How did no-one spot the giant armoured bear sneaking up on them?
Is he supposed to be some kind of ninja?
A talking armoured polar-bear warrior exiled prince, I can manage. A ninja talking armoured polar-bear warrior exiled prince? That's stretching suspension of disbelief a little too far.


It's been a while since I read the book, so I can't remember how it was handled there, but as I can't remember being thrown when reading it, I presume it was better explained.


So - what other scenes from film do you consider sufficiently weird / narmy / verisimilitude-breaking / whatever, enough to make you stop and think "That - that shouldn't happen!"

[Juntao112]

Rosebud (http://movieplotholes.com/citizen-kane.html)

[Boci]

The Twilight baseball scene had me tilting my head to the side.

[Morithias]

Basically 90% of films that have anything to do with mental illness.

As Morbo would say.

INSANITY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. GOODNIGHT.

Oh, and a time to kill.

The writer of the movie, has no bloody clue how the legal system works.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

A DOUBLE-DECKER BALONEY SANDWICH!

(MacGuffining reached a new level that day.)

[Maxios]

The scene on the subway in the Hitman movie. Agent 47 is in a train, along with a few other assassins who look identical to him (despite him not being a clone in this adaptation.) They agree to duel each other, and suddenly every one of them pull swords out of nowhere.

[Sith_Happens]

All of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[Gnoman]

Oh, and a time to kill.

The writer of the movie, has no bloody clue how the legal system works.

If you're referring to the John Grisham film, it is based on a book written by a highly successful lawyer. Granted, the one major change made (the "imagine she was white" closing argument from the movie was originally an initiative by a jury member to break the deadlock) does violate legal procedures, but everything else (including the book version of that scene) is perfectly valid. Grisham goes into considerable more detail in the book as to why it is valid, of course.

[Tavar]

A DOUBLE-DECKER BALONEY SANDWICH!

(MacGuffining reached a new level that day.)

That's the moment for you in troll 2? And not, say, most of the other things in the movie? Like, say, the implied sex scene-> popcorn filled RV?


As for me, Roadhouse has a couple, though the one that stays with me is
When the villian firebombs a store, and then trashes some dealership cars with a monster truck, if only because doing that involves groups he should really not have power over.

[Lord Raziere]

All of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

trust me, the book is just as what is this I don't even. its not a quality of the film, but the story itself...

[Kitten Champion]

The Holy Mountain (1971) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_k8oaeHsnc)

I watched this a few years ago, and have come to honestly think that it was just something I made up from half-remembered dreams, but Google says it's real... and there's the trailer.

[Drakeburn]

The Twilight baseball scene had me tilting my head to the side.

For some strange reason, that scene kind of made my mind go blank.

(for the record, I never seen any of the Twilight films, I just happened to stumble upon this scene as I was channel-surfing one day. And it is very rare for me to surf through channels on television)

I happened to watch "Something Wicked This Way Comes" a couple weeks ago, and the main villain was interrogating this person who sold lightning rods that kept evil spirits away.

*shrugs*

Anyways, at the moment the main villain shocked the poor man with a lot of electricity, I assumed he was killed off. Fast forward to near the ending, after the main character's father saves him, the scene jumps to the "lightning rod salesperson" who suddenly gets up from his chair, gets one of his lightning rods, which is somehow glowing with "magic energy", rushes into the mirror house the main character and his father are in, and kills one of the villain's cronies with the thing as if it was a magic weapon.

What gets on my nerves about this is..................

1. Why didn't the villain just kill the person who had lightning rods that could repel/destroy evil?

2. How did the lightning rods go from being protective charms to magic weapons?

Explain Disney. EXPLAIN!!!

[Sith_Happens]

For some strange reason, that scene kind of made my mind go blank.

Do they play baseball flagrantly wrong or something?

[Farix]

Do they play baseball flagrantly wrong or something?

Enjoy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwQTkfac6Qs)

[Sith_Happens]

Enjoy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwQTkfac6Qs)

Okay, that was definitely silly and dumb in a lot of ways, just not the way the thread is about.:smallconfused:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's the moment for you in troll 2? And not, say, most of the other things in the movie? Like, say, the implied sex scene-> popcorn filled RV?


Yeah, actually. xD Much of the movie was pure WHATTHECRAPery of the highest degree, but that was by far my "what is this I don't even" for a pretty straightforward reason.

They'd been playing that satchel up repeatedly during the film. It was clearly the magical MacGuffin, shrouded in mystery and built up. (At least, that's how I remember it.) And then he opens it and--

OUT OF LEFT FIELD. And then they played it so straight. The howls of "THE CHOLESTEROL!!!!!!!!!" were icing on the sweet, sweet cake.

[TuggyNE]

The Fountain, which I watched because my college roommate was an English major.

All of the whole movie was that way; it was all about the same character existing in multiple times as a miracle-cancer-cure-researcher + Buddha + conquistador and there was a whole bunch of weird stuff about trees of life in there, except they didn't work, except they actually did, except… yeah, no.

When I got to the end I still had no idea why anyone would waste any time even writing out that script.

[Legato Endless]

Oh, and a time to kill.

The writer of the movie, has no bloody clue how the legal system works.

I'll see your film choice and raise you Double Jeopardy. Ignorance of the law is one thing, but it takes a stunning amount of misinformation to create that film.

Other selections:

Phoenix Wright is a typical live action anime adaption. Simplistic, thinly written, pandering, and mostly lacking in the source material's charm. The only fantasy element is the spirit channelers who can speak with the dead. Despite this, at one point in the film, an empty mascot suit jumps onto the judge's desk and objects to the proceedings...then meekly slides off and falls apart. This is neither explained or later acknowledged.

Charlie and the Chocolate factory. At one point, a boy runs away from home. His dad, a model of good parenting, tells him if he does so, he won't be there when he gets back. The boy comes back later, and sure enough, the dad is gone. So is the house.

We're back! A Dinosaur Story. Most of the film really qualifies on some level, but special mentions go to the bizarre climax where the antagonist is inexplicably covered in crows and then vanishes.

The Brave Little Toaster is a fairly surreal children's film. Fair enough. But even by the standards of film that has a sentient appliance have a nightmare about a psychotic clown fire fighter, the most depressing scene in the film steals it. Toaster leaves friends at one point and enters glade. Toaster meets flower. Flower falls in love with reflection on Toaster's body. Toaster freaks out and leaves. Flower dies. What.

Superman 3 defies genre convention and opens with a Rube Goldberg chain of slapstick disasters. Fitting in a Charlie Chaplin movie, but...why is it here in a superhero film?

For something more mainstream, the party sequence in Matrix Reloaded. I still have no idea what that was about. Some sort of failed attempt at symbolism for...something.

[SuperPanda]

My older sister had a moment like this when we watched X-men 3 in theaters together... now to be fair, you need a preety high level of willing suspension of disbelief for anything in a superhero film and with her being a Bio-chem major and genetics researcher I expected her brain to be pretty firmly off when watching an X-men movie.

The golden-gate bridge scene though finally did her in though and she frustratedly turned to be in the theater and began explaining that "physics says no! Even if you accept his powers, and magnetism in general, works as its been shown in all three films thus far the physical stress of what he's doing, translated across the enire bridge from his focal point, wouldn't work like that. If nothing else the non-metal parts of the bridge shouldn't be holding up... physics says no!"

I mocked her ruthlessly for having a "physics says no" moment in a superhero film (even though I agreed that the film was poorly made). I mocked her ruthelssly on that for quite some time... until I had the same thing in Star Trek 2009 with the "Super Nova that threatened to destroy the entire galaxy."

Similar to superhero stories... your suspension of disbelief is in pretty high gear when watching a Star Trek film. I was ready to accept time travel shenangans, Red matter making black holes because it got hot, chaos theory changing people's ages and the even the "promoting a suspended cadet to captain of the fleet's flagship" ... but my brain broke at the supernova thing probably because it was so terribly inconsequential to the movie. All they needed to fix it for me was "a supernova which threatened to destablize the quadrant... or threatened the balance of power in the quadrant... or threatened to destablize our part of the galaxy. A tiny, tiny, rewrite would have fixed it. >.<

Also - pretty much all of Scott Pilgram vs the World did this with me, though in a great way. The only part which felt bad/forced/completly out of left field was the Vegan superpowers and the non-soy creamer.

[Boci]

Okay, that was definitely silly and dumb in a lot of ways, just not the way the thread is about.:smallconfused:

It felt like a "What is this I don't even" moment to me when I was watching it.

[Avilan the Grey]

HMm...
I honestly can't remember any moments like this for me. Unless you count the times I watch knowingly bad movies because I want to get these moments on purpose of course.

My current favorite is the musical "The Apple". Highly recommended, if you want to go ..."OMGLOL" every 2 minutes or so. (Yes, it's more fun to watch than Sharknado).

[Irenaeus]

Isn't this a misuse of the phrase, or does it have a much wider usage these days? Most the incidents described here are pretty stupid, but not surrealistically incoherent.

The strangest moment I've had when watching a movie (as in I don't understand what happened, what kind of audience reaction the creators were looking for, what they were thinking when they made it, and why it exists), was in Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart at the River Styx.

The scene, as best I can remember it, goes like this: Itto fights a female assassin, and cuts at her legs. She avoids this by jumping out of her kimono (wtf?), leaving here with a fishnet bodysuit (wtf?).

She then shouts "I am the ultimate ninja", and escapes the battlefield by running bakcwards across the fields (with the footage speeded up). She runs backwards in a fishnet bodysuit after jumping out of her clothes to avoid an attack. I mean, why... what... I don't... Yeah.


The Fountain, which I watched because my college roommate was an English major.

All of the whole movie was that way; it was all about the same character existing in multiple times as a miracle-cancer-cure-researcher + Buddha + conquistador and there was a whole bunch of weird stuff about trees of life in there, except they didn't work, except they actually did, except… yeah, no.

When I got to the end I still had no idea why anyone would waste any time even writing out that script.
Yeah, The Fountain is awesome.

[Lord Raziere]

Isn't this a misuse of the phrase, or does it have a much wider usage these days? Most the incidents described here are pretty stupid, but not surrealistically incoherent.


sometimes I think the internet is the place where the proper usage of words goes to die. eventually, they all get diluted into something more general and get misapplied far faster than they would in real life. the internet speeds up culture like that.

for example, the word trolling, or mary sue, and other such phrases, by now people are making them mean things they really shouldn't. this thread is just another phrase for the proper usage fire.

[Feytalist]

The Fountain, which I watched because my college roommate was an English major.

The Fountain is easily one of my favourite movies. I just love the atmosphere and the visuals. But I still don't know what it's actually about :smallbiggrin:

(I am one of those people who would quite happily take atmosphere over substance, so make of that what you will. Clarification: in movies. Other media; not so much.)


My one is Sunshine, another of my favourite movies. Great movie, amazing atmosphere (again) and an interesting exploration of human psychology... until its last third, in which it turns into a slasher movie. Jarring enough to make you go 0_o I still love it, though.

[Sith_Happens]

[Science errors]

I'm usually really good about this, but The Dark Knight Rises managed to drop one that I just couldn't let pass.

Russian Scientist Dude: "If you unplug the fuel core from the reactor, it will explode!"
Me: "What? No. That is the exact opposite of how fusion works."

[Eldan]

I will probably have one whenever anyone uses the word "Evolution" in a sentence.

Not a film, but special most recent mention goes to Doctor Who Big Finish Audioplays, "Scherzo" for getting everything so terribly wrong.
"We are more evolved than them", "We are to it as dinosaurs are to modern man", "This creature is evolving in front of our eyes", "Of course the weaker species are just dying for no reason, survival of the fittest", "All evolution has a purpose and is aiming for a goal", "Every generation is better than the last", "Why are we evolving? We are a finished species!".

The worst thing is they kept going on and on about it.

[SuperPanda]

Yeah, my brain completely shut off on Dark Knight Rises by the time Bane spoke for the first time... by then all I could do was :smallbiggrin: because he sounded hilarious.

[Douglas]

I'm usually really good about this, but The Dark Knight Rises managed to drop one that I just couldn't let pass.

Russian Scientist Dude: "If you unplug the fuel core from the reactor, it will explode!"
Me: "What? No. That is the exact opposite of how fusion works."
I give that one a pass usually because it takes significant uncommon knowledge to understand that. Most people know about fission plant meltdowns, and that fusion is more powerful than fission, and quite reasonably assume that the combination of these facts means fusion plants have more powerful meltdowns. Treating a fusion plant properly in that regard would require explaining why fusion doesn't work that way, and a significant portion of the audience would still assume you're just making stuff up and fusion meltdowns are the reality.

[Irenaeus]

sometimes I think the internet is the place where the proper usage of words goes to die. eventually, they all get diluted into something more general and get misapplied far faster than they would in real life. the internet speeds up culture like that.
Terms connected to memes seem especially suceptible to this, as they are basically duct-taped to incredibly fast-morphing cultural phenomena.

I took a second glance at the posts here, and this is definitely more of a "[bears/baseball/science] don't work that way" thread, with very few instances of "what is this I don't even".

[Avilan the Grey]

Not only memes, but tropes.

There was a time when CMoA on TVTropes were the most awesome things ever. Then it got diluted to "Anything a popular character does", to the point that events like "And then Thor puts his helmet on! AWZUM" was listed.

After The Big Cleanup (tm) it is somewhere in between...

[Mono Vertigo]

We're back! A Dinosaur Story. Most of the film really qualifies on some level, but special mentions go to the bizarre climax where the antagonist is inexplicably covered in crows and then vanishes.
I thought he got eaten by the crows he was so afraid of?
... now, children movies of that decade don't make an awful lot of sense, admittedly.

[JustSomeGuy]

Roadhouse

If there is one problem with that film, it is that Swayze should be bigger.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Also - pretty much all of Scott Pilgram vs the World did this with me, though in a great way. The only part which felt bad/forced/completly out of left field was the Vegan superpowers and the non-soy creamer.

That's because the Todd/Scott conflict took up several chapters of the original comic and had a lot more detail. It is one of the few parts of the comic that they didn't compress and transition well.

[Brother Oni]

Phoenix Wright is a typical live action anime adaption. Simplistic, thinly written, pandering, and mostly lacking in the source material's charm.

It'd also be difficult to get a live action film authentic to the original since the source material is a massive satirization of the Japanese legal system and thus unlikely to get past the censors.

[Legato Endless]

Not only memes, but tropes.

There was a time when CMoA on TVTropes were the most awesome things ever. Then it got diluted to "Anything a popular character does", to the point that events like "And then Thor puts his helmet on! AWZUM" was listed.

After The Big Cleanup (tm) it is somewhere in between...

If we are going to be pendandic, I'm not sure this is quite true. Crowning in this context means a singular event surpassing all others. You can not have multiple crowning achievements, but even in the beginning of CMoA, tropers did indeed have more than one entry for a series, or argue that this or that was "another crowning moment."

[Wardog]

Isn't this a misuse of the phrase, or does it have a much wider usage these days? Most the incidents described here are pretty stupid, but not surrealistically incoherent.

I was going to title it "WTF moments in film", but wasn't sure if that was within the forum rules. "What is this I don't even" was just the next catchy phrase that came to mind.




Not a film, but special most recent mention goes to Doctor Who Big Finish Audioplays, "Scherzo" for getting everything so terribly wrong...
"We are to it as dinosaurs are to modern man",

We are bigger, stronger, faster, and could eat it for a snack?

[ChaosArchon]

For me it was the ending of Demon King Daimyo, from what I surmised the girl was god in disguise (maybe?), the main character and the dragon were fighting over the god-computer, the girl seizes control, and resets the universe??? I dunno

[KillianHawkeye]

Superman 3 defies genre convention and opens with a Rube Goldberg chain of slapstick disasters. Fitting in a Charlie Chaplin movie, but...why is it here in a superhero film?

There is a reason that I loved this movie so much as a child, but as an adult see it as one of the worse super hero films ever made. The reason being that I'm pretty sure the script writers got all their ideas from 5-year-olds. I think the only part that was thought of by an adult was when SurlyMan forgets to shave and is a total jerk to bar tenders, because children wouldn't really have a concept of bars or shaving.

[Irenaeus]

I was going to title it "WTF moments in film", but wasn't sure if that was within the forum rules. "What is this I don't even" was just the next catchy phrase that came to mind.I'll stop being pedantic, then. Everybody who's constrained by word filters have my sympathy.

[Eldan]

I just pretend that WTF means "We're Thoroughly Flabbergasted".

[Pex]

Star Trek VII: Generations

This I did to myself. Backstory is needed.

When Walter Koenig first appeared on "Babylon 5" as Bester it was obvious stunt casting but still cool. He played Bester very well. He was a character I loved to hate. As the seasons go by there was Bester again causing trouble.

Then the first Star Trek The Next Generation movie comes out. The first scene takes place in the 23rd century to dedicate the new Enterprise B. The turbo lift doors open. Kirk walks out. Yay. Scotty walks out. Yay. Bester walks out. What?! I was really annoyed. What the hell is Bester doing there? This is "Star Trek" not "Babylon 5"! I then immediately felt foolish and embarrassed as I suddenly remember it's Chekov. Of course it's Chekov. It's supposed to be Chekov.

[McStabbington]

It's possible I'm confusing "What is this I don't even" with "No, just no," but the only time I've ever actually said anything in the theater was in the original Transformers (my friend dragged me to it, over my objections that it was a Michael Bay film). Said film spent the entire film anthropomorphizing Bumblebee, and then in the very last scene, we see Bumblebee as a car . . . with Shia LeBeouf and Megan Fox on his back . . . making out. It elicited a very loud "Ew!" from me.

I will say that I left the original showing of Attack of the Clones utterly mystified as to why the Republic had decided to use the clone troopers. At the time, I assumed it was because it was finals week and I had slept maybe 20 hours that entire week. Turns out, no, it's just because the plot said so. But that strikes me as another "What the . . .", although it's more at an intellectual level.

[Sith_Happens]

I will say that I left the original showing of Attack of the Clones utterly mystified as to why the Republic had decided to use the clone troopers. At the time, I assumed it was because it was finals week and I had slept maybe 20 hours that entire week. Turns out, no, it's just because the plot said so. But that strikes me as another "What the . . .", although it's more at an intellectual level.

Huh? It makes perfect sense. Why send your citizens to fight and die when you can literally mass produce soldiers? Of course, the ethics are a bit less simple than that what with the clones being people too, but I don't think many people could honestly fault the Republic for seeing it as the lesser of two evils.

[The New Bruceski]

My personal "Physics says no" is The World is Not Enough. I watched it in Los Alamos, in the middle of a theater full of people who, even if they aren't nuclear physicists, have a pretty good knowledge of nuclear physics. That movie was not made for us.

Some parts were good:
--Christmas Jones, upon seeing through Bond's bluff, did not confront him but instead played along and then grabbed security. This is what you're supposed to do.
--That's about it.

Some parts were bad but tolerable (though painful):
--generally treating Plutonium as lighter than it really is
--treating a nuclear bomb as something you can just take bits out of and still have work.

The painful:
--Putting one fuel rod of weapons-grade Plutonium in a reactor to make it explode.
--The fight on the sub. I want to re-watch it to make sure I'm remembering things correctly but it doesn't seem to be findable without downloading the whole movie. Short version: if the things happened that I remember happening everyone's dead from radiation. Did someone get a fuel rod shot into them or is that my imagination running away with the movie? Needless to say that would not easily happen even on a Russian sub.

[Sith_Happens]

One of the villains did indeed die by pressure-launched fuel rod through the stomach.

[Gnoman]

Huh? It makes perfect sense. Why send your citizens to fight and die when you can literally mass produce soldiers? Of course, the ethics are a bit less simple than that what with the clones being people too, but I don't think many people could honestly fault the Republic for seeing it as the lesser of two evils.

Not only that, but the Republic had absolutely no armed forces of any kind at that time. It was "use the clones" or "let the mass-produced droid army roll right over you unless your individual system defenses that have no reason to fight outside their own star system can hold the line."

[Tengu_temp]

Not only that, but the Republic had absolutely no armed forces of any kind at that time. It was "use the clones" or "let the mass-produced droid army roll right over you unless your individual system defenses that have no reason to fight outside their own star system can hold the line."

Which means the real wtf question is "what kind of legitimate government doesn't have armed forces of any kind"?

[Legato Endless]

Which means the real wtf question is "what kind of legitimate government doesn't have armed forces of any kind"?

The same government that lets Wal-Mart lay siege and attempt to informally annex one of their own provinces. Then lays around and decides maybe they'll make a formal investigation at some point.

[Kitten Champion]

Using clone troopers makes sense. I mean, it's an incredibly tedious decision from a dramatic perspective since disposable pawns fighting the disposable pawns of a vaguely defined enemy over nebulous reasons is meaningless to me. But from an in-universe perspective, using clones and droids is more practical than alternatives.

However, using an army that appeared out of nowhere, created under the most laughably suspicious of circumstances, and not so much addressing this is... it's own level of naively stupid.

Edit: Wait, nevermind, I thought this was the "Explain the Force thread". Apparently conversations just sort of blend into each other.

[The_Snark]

However, using an army that appeared out of nowhere, created under the most laughably suspicious of circumstances, and not so much addressing this is... it's own level of naively stupid.

In all fairness, it's pretty easy to imagine how that got swept under the carpet. Jedi: "Someone apparently purchased a clone army in our name. We should look into that." Palpatine: "Quite right! I'll launch an investigation right away." *cue bogged-down, underfunded investigation*

I guess they could have addressed this on-screen, but I don't think adding a few more details to the plot would have done much to improve those films.


We're back! A Dinosaur Story. Most of the film really qualifies on some level, but special mentions go to the bizarre climax where the antagonist is inexplicably covered in crows and then vanishes.
I have a soft spot for this movie; it's probably mostly nostalgia, but the weirdness has a kind of appeal. Special mention to the part where it segues from a wacky cartoon chase scene featuring dinosaurs skateboarding through downtown New York, to... Professor Screweyes' Eccentric Circus. Mood whiplash!

[Kitten Champion]

In all fairness, it's pretty easy to imagine how that got swept under the carpet. Jedi: "Someone apparently purchased a clone army in our name. We should look into that." Palpatine: "Quite right! I'll launch an investigation right away." *cue bogged-down, underfunded investigation*

I guess they could have addressed this on-screen, but I don't think adding a few more details to the plot would have done much to improve those films. !

That's just it, Obi-Wan spent half the film investigating what turned out to be the clone army's illicit construction. It wasn't off-screen, it was a central issue of the movie.

Obi-Wan foiled an assassination plot against Padme -- a Senator, mind you --and managed to capture the would-be assassin, who was subsequently killed by a poison dart shot by a mysterious assailant before s/he could be taken into custody and questioned. The dart, apparently, was unique. Its manufacturing could be tracked to a planet on the edge of galaxy outside of Republic space. Obi-Wan was given the coordinates to the planet by the same expert/CGI thing who identified the dart in the first place. However, just for funsies, he checks the Jedi library to reaffirm the planet's existence, but it turns out that file was missing from the database. This could only mean someone with authority in the Jedi order deleted the information, implying a complex conspiracy revolving around this world of some significance.

Obi-Wan's ordered to go to the planet and investigate. After arriving he's surprised to find that the residents were expecting him, a Jedi master named Cypher Dias (sp?) had placed an order there for a clone army ten years ago and the cloners assumed he was checking its progress. Obi-Wan reports this to the Jedi council, who confirm that they had not authorized such an army, and Dias had fallen well before he could have himself. Suspicious as this was, compounding it is the genetic source for the army, a bounty hunter who could be linked to the assassination attempt that was compelling this investigation in the first place. This bounty hunter would also soon tied to the Separatists, the antagonists to the Republic in this kinda-war. The Separatists that are led by, as it turns out, a former Jedi master, Count Dooku.

Back on Coruscant, fears of a Separatists army spur Jar Jar Binks -- which for reasons beyond my comprehension was allowed to vote for Naboo with the Senator's absence -- to give the Chancellor special war powers because the senate "would never vote for the clone army" but apparently would vote for having their authority all but usurped by Palpatine if Jar Jar could be cajoled into making the case for it. Even if it means a clone army would happen anyways and their objections would be meaningless, so what the hell?

Anyways, flash forward a bit. Yoda goes to the cloner planet to investigate it for himself, while Anakin and Padme go to save Obi-Wan who was imprisoned by the Separatists. Anakin and Padme are caught, but before they and Obi-Wan could be executed the Jedi intervene... and are defeated. But before the Jedi could be slaughtered en masse, Yoda shows up with the clone army to rescue them.

...And here we have the deepest flaw in the Attack of the Clones. A wise and sagely Jedi, confronted repeatedly with evidence of a plot - probably Sith related - revolving around the creation of these clone troopers, and Yoda just ignores rational caution and uses them anyways?

I guess I can see desperation seeping through leading to bad decisions. Yoda is still a person and a convenient army sent to save the bulk of his Order and possibly end the war there and then could be tempting enough of a proposition to use them, but you need that bit where this obvious conspiracy is addressed. Otherwise why the hell did you bother investigating it in the first place? Just to utterly ignore your findings yourself, but tell the audience about it? That doesn't make any sense! They're just going along with a conspiracy they know is a conspiracy because the script says so.

If your country, which in this hypothetical doesn't have a military of its own, suddenly hired an entire army of foreign mercenaries with no credentials and proven links to your greatest adversary... yeah, that's stupid.


Edit: It was Yoda's (the Jedi's technically) army to use and destroy as he/they saw fit. If it were the Republic's I might see why, Palpatine would be in control of it and that would be the end of it. The Jedi however, have no reason just to maintain the illusion of this being a legitimate force produced with their consent or knowledge.

[Traab]

I just pretend that WTF means "We're Thoroughly Flabbergasted".

WHAT?!?! Is that what it means? And all this time I kept saying "Where's The Flounder?"

*EDIT* As for no army for the empire, I always treated it as a UN type body. Each nation has its own troops and weaponry, the senate itself commands none. Considering they have just finished off a thousand years of peace or whatever, it makes sense their forces are scaled down to the point where they can barely protect their own world if that much, let alone send millions of troops across the galaxy to fight a way against a bunch of merchants.

[GolemsVoice]

The Fountain is easily one of my favourite movies. I just love the atmosphere and the visuals. But I still don't know what it's actually about

Yeah, watching "The Fountain" with my friends was pretty fun. We all agreed that we had seen something beautiful and deep, but nobody was sure what it was actually ABOUT.

[Pex]

The ending of Blazing Saddles.

I know. It's a comedy. It's a Mel Brooks movie. But still, it was so stupid out of nowhere. It made no sense and had no context. It ruined the verisimilitude.

[Legato Endless]

The ending of Blazing Saddles.

I know. It's a comedy. It's a Mel Brooks movie. But still, it was so stupid out of nowhere. It made no sense and had no context. It ruined the verisimilitude.

You mean when they run through the theater? I agree it was a bit of a tonal change, and a pretty stupid joke in an otherwise funny movie, but I'm not sure if I've felt anything approaching verisimilitude when it comes to most Brook's films.

[The_Snark]

Edit: It was Yoda's (the Jedi's technically) army to use and destroy as he/they saw fit. If it were the Republic's I might see why, Palpatine would be in control of it and that would be the end of it. The Jedi however, have no reason just to maintain the illusion of this being a legitimate force produced with their consent or knowledge.

I still think it's not too hard to imagine the Jedi and Republic collectively being distracted from the issue by the outbreak of the war, with Palpatine helping to run interference. But you're right that it makes a lame conclusion to the investigation plot they were trying to build up earlier in the film, and there's probably some holes in the logic. (Yoda grabbing the clones on his way to the final battle, for instance, does seem weird in retrospect.) I guess I hadn't noticed because of the movie's other glaring flaws.

[Brother Oni]

Which means the real wtf question is "what kind of legitimate government doesn't have armed forces of any kind"?

Well technically speaking, the Republic did have an armed force - the Jedi.

Unfortunately they were more of a peace keeping and government security agency rather than an army.
As proved by the later Clone Wars, they made a great officer corp and special operations unit, they just don't have the bodies or the constant recruitment numbers to sustain typical wartime attritional losses.

[Traab]

Well technically speaking, the Republic did have an armed force - the Jedi.

Unfortunately they were more of a peace keeping and government security agency rather than an army.
As proved by the later Clone Wars, they made a great officer corp and special operations unit, they just don't have the bodies or the constant recruitment numbers to sustain typical wartime attritional losses.

Gee, who would have thought that an organization of celibate monks with a genetic mutation required to qualify and insanely tough requirements to graduate wouldnt have huge numbers? :smalltongue:

[Wardog]

It's possible I'm confusing "What is this I don't even" with "No, just no," but the only time I've ever actually said anything in the theater was in the original Transformers (my friend dragged me to it, over my objections that it was a Michael Bay film).

That... film... is not the original Transformers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GeisRaias).

(Mind you, the original had a fair few moments that don't really make sense when you think about them).

[jedipotter]

I will say that I left the original showing of Attack of the Clones utterly mystified as to why the Republic had decided to use the clone troopers. Turns out, no, it's just because the plot said so. But that strikes me as another "What the . . .", although it's more at an intellectual level.

Ok...maybe a Star Wars person can explain the whole clone thing. Ok...so 10 years before AotC Jedi Somebody wants to make a clone army for the Republic, for apparently no reason what so ever. And that Jedi picks a random bounty hunter, again for no apparent reason, Jango Fett, to be cloned a trillion times. Then Jedi Somebody erases the clone planet off all the maps, again for no apparent reason. And then Jedi Somebody dies and tells no one about the clones. So them really tall aliens just sit on there planet and clone Jango Fett endlessly for a decade. And not once do they call the Republic to ask what to do with the clone army.

But, er, Jango Fett is part of the whole Bad Guy Conspiracy. So why did such a bad guy get picked to clone an army from? And how is it that Count Duko did not know about the clone army? He knows Jango Fett!? Did Jango just never mention the clone army of himself?

And did Emperor Palpitine know about the clone army? Or was he some how to have made it? Sure is nice that when you want to become emperor that someone just happened to make an army for you. Was that part of the plan or was that just chance?

And ok, so the really tall aliens made the clones......but, um, er, where in the universe did all the hardware come from?. The really tall aliens built or bought a trillion rifles, a trillion suits of armor, tanks, drop ships and tons and tons of capital warships. ER, what?

[Mordar]

If there is one problem with that film, it is that Swayze should be bigger.

I thought he was bigger...

[the_fennecfox]

The Holy Mountain (1971) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_k8oaeHsnc)

I watched this a few years ago, and have come to honestly think that it was just something I made up from half-remembered dreams, but Google says it's real... and there's the trailer.
.......Not sure what so say...one of the weirdest things I have ever seen. Does this even have a plot???

[Reverent-One]

(Mind you, the original had a fair few moments that don't really make sense when you think about them).

What? Nooo, the junk robots breaking out into a Weird Al song after almost killing the main characters made perfect sense.

[Traab]

Ok...maybe a Star Wars person can explain the whole clone thing. Ok...so 10 years before AotC Jedi Somebody wants to make a clone army for the Republic, for apparently no reason what so ever. And that Jedi picks a random bounty hunter, again for no apparent reason, Jango Fett, to be cloned a trillion times. Then Jedi Somebody erases the clone planet off all the maps, again for no apparent reason. And then Jedi Somebody dies and tells no one about the clones. So them really tall aliens just sit on there planet and clone Jango Fett endlessly for a decade. And not once do they call the Republic to ask what to do with the clone army.

But, er, Jango Fett is part of the whole Bad Guy Conspiracy. So why did such a bad guy get picked to clone an army from? And how is it that Count Duko did not know about the clone army? He knows Jango Fett!? Did Jango just never mention the clone army of himself?

And did Emperor Palpitine know about the clone army? Or was he some how to have made it? Sure is nice that when you want to become emperor that someone just happened to make an army for you. Was that part of the plan or was that just chance?

And ok, so the really tall aliens made the clones......but, um, er, where in the universe did all the hardware come from?. The really tall aliens built or bought a trillion rifles, a trillion suits of armor, tanks, drop ships and tons and tons of capital warships. ER, what?

Now I havent read all the backstory so I may be wrong, but this is my impression. The clone army was ordered by palpatine, or at least one of his minions under the name of jedi master sifo dius (Im sure that isnt spelled right) He is the one who arranged for jango fett to be used, he is the one who had all the programmed orders decided on. The whole point of this was, he would incite the merchants to start their robo war/rebellion so he could justify forming his own military, (Which he had already arranged to be grown, but noone knows this)

Now, as we all know, the jedi tend to be the generals, the commanders, the guys in charge. So by setting off this galactic war, the jedi get spread out nice and thin, surrounded by clone troops. And when the time is right, he initiates the order 66, which tells them to kill any jedi they find, or something to the effect. This gives palpatine supreme rule, with no jedi left to oppose him, and a premade army that is totally loyal to him due to extensive programming. The only downside is that annoying rebellion that was co opted by those who dont think there should be an emperor.

This isnt that big a deal overall, its a small, under funded rebellion without a lot of power. Only the plot armor from episode 4 lets them do anything but be annoying in the long run.

[The_Snark]

Ok...maybe a Star Wars person can explain the whole clone thing. Ok...so 10 years before AotC Jedi Somebody wants to make a clone army for the Republic, for apparently no reason what so ever. And that Jedi picks a random bounty hunter, again for no apparent reason, Jango Fett, to be cloned a trillion times. Then Jedi Somebody erases the clone planet off all the maps, again for no apparent reason. And then Jedi Somebody dies and tells no one about the clones. So them really tall aliens just sit on there planet and clone Jango Fett endlessly for a decade. And not once do they call the Republic to ask what to do with the clone army.

But, er, Jango Fett is part of the whole Bad Guy Conspiracy. So why did such a bad guy get picked to clone an army from? And how is it that Count Duko did not know about the clone army? He knows Jango Fett!? Did Jango just never mention the clone army of himself?

And did Emperor Palpitine know about the clone army? Or was he some how to have made it? Sure is nice that when you want to become emperor that someone just happened to make an army for you. Was that part of the plan or was that just chance?

Palpatine was definitely behind the clone army, who needs an army as part of his grand plan to conquer the galaxy. I'm not clear on all the exact details - I don't think the movie ever fully explains the mystery set up in the first half - but he wants the Republic to get embroiled in a war so that he can expand his power and influence, and so they need an army. He goes for clones because he thinks that'll be easier than convincing the Senate to build a military, or wants easily-manipulated drones rather than people who might have outside loyalties, or something. Seems more or less reasonable.

The bit about a Jedi ordering the army is...probably a lie? It's possible that Palpatine had that shapeshifting alien girl impersonate a Jedi. It might've been Dooku or someone else introducing themselves as a Jedi, on the assumption that the tall aliens won't know the difference. (And apparently run no background checks on their customers.) It's even possible that Jedi Whose Name I Can't Spell (Sypho-Dias?) was a pawn or fellow conspirator, I guess. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm fairly certain that whoever ordered that army was on Palpatine's payroll.

Which also explains why they picked Jango Fett to act as the template for the clones. I'm not sure when Dooku comes into the picture; I feel like Jango Fett or Palpatine told him about it, if he wasn't the person who bought the army in the first place, but he didn't expect Yoda to show up with the clones in tow. (Or maybe he did? I don't know.)

I... am not clear on who erased the planet from the Jedi Temple's maps, or why. Possibly they wanted to make it harder for Jedi to go there? Not like they couldn't go look the coordinates up on someone else's maps if they get suspicious, though - in fact, that's exactly what Obi-Wan did. It seems pretty pointless to me.

The Tall Aliens might have checked in, but any contact info they were given probably leads back to the evil conspiracy rather than the Jedi Council. Judging by their reaction to Obi-Wan's visit, I don't think they were in on the conspiracy. I had the impression that they were either terminally naive, or just totally indifferent so long as they're getting paid.

(I have no idea where the hardware came from.)

The basic plot idea (Palpatine engineers a war to give himself power, secretly controlling both sides) was neat, but the execution was pretty muddled.

[Kitten Champion]

.......Not sure what so say...one of the weirdest things I have ever seen. Does this even have a plot???

It's more of a montage of art pieces, baffling art pieces.

I'm sure someone going into it as experimental cinema, devoid of characters or narrative and wrought with symbolism, might get something out of it. It was just on television late at night when I stumbled across it, I really had to Google it just to confirm it existed.

[Sith_Happens]

[Clone army stuff]

The tie-in novel to Revenge of the Sith fills in the blanks. Sifo-Dyas placed the order after Phantom Menace with the encouragement and financial backing of a disguised Darth Plagueis, before later being killed by Dooku to cover it up.

[Avilan the Grey]

That... film... is not the original Transformers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GeisRaias).

(Mind you, the original had a fair few moments that don't really make sense when you think about them).

I LOVE the Bayformers for one thing: No stupid mass-changing. That alone makes them superior. Megatron in the comics changing from a hugeass robot with an arm cannon to a handgun? It broke my suspension of disbelief as a 12year old.

[BWR]

The Holy Mountain (1971) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_k8oaeHsnc)

I watched this a few years ago, and have come to honestly think that it was just something I made up from half-remembered dreams, but Google says it's real... and there's the trailer.

I so need to see this movie now.

Looks like just what I'd expect from Jodorowsky.

[Irenaeus]

I was more confused by the number of clone troopers in the first purchase than anything, especially since the movie builds it up like it's supposed to be a significant number on the scale the republic operates. Is 200 000 (with a million more on the way) really a meaningful amount, and not just a small pilot project. Were they planning to station one of them on each planet of the republic?

"Bob, you take Coruscant. Keep the peace there."

Star Wars is full of these, though.

I just pretend that WTF means "We're Thoroughly Flabbergasted".Please don't use the F-word.

[BWR]

The movie said 'units'. For all we know, and probably what the scriptwriters originally meant, was a 'unit of troops', which would be significantly more. However, some later writers, especially the Travissty, had unit=1 soldier, and for some stupid reason everyone had to run with it.

[Avilan the Grey]

The movie said 'units'. For all we know, and probably what the scriptwriters originally meant, was a 'unit of troops', which would be significantly more. However, some later writers, especially the Travissty, had unit=1 soldier, and for some stupid reason everyone had to run with it.

AFAIR Lucas has weird ideas about the scale of galaxies. If I recall correctly, the original number given for Storm Troopers back in the day was stupidly small, as well. And that is supposed to be a galaxy-spanning empire.

[Surrealistik]

The Fountain is easily one of my favourite movies. I just love the atmosphere and the visuals. But I still don't know what it's actually about :smallbiggrin:


The Fountain is not an especially complex or perplexing story (but it is beautiful, and one of my favourite films); here's the easy/simple breakdown:


Scientist's wife is dying of cancer.
He discovers the cure (the derivatives of a certain tree, a seed of which he later plants over his wife's grave and brings with him to his bubble like space craft) only too late to save her which also grants clinical immortality.
He lives for countless years via this immortality drug, haunted by his wife's death and his failure, flying on a suicide course to the heart of a nebula where a sun is about to be born.
He finishes her story about a conquistador (it's fiction, not a real historical account) during this journey that parallels his ultimate acceptance of death; hers and his own, which he seems to look upon as a sort of relief/liberation.
He and his craft (along with the tree planted over his wife's grave that he now identifies with her) are obliterated by the sun's birth.


What is it about? The message/theme seems to be about enjoying your life and loved ones while you can, as well as the inevitability and acceptance of death and natural cycles of existence (life & death, creation & destruction, continuity of existence in other forms).

[Telonius]

Biggest "What is this I don't even" moment for me:

All Dogs Go to Heaven. Watching it in the theater, all of 8 years old at the time.

The alligator.

Yes, that (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigLippedAlligatorMoment) alligator. (TV Tropes link).

[jedipotter]

The tie-in novel to Revenge of the Sith fills in the blanks. Sifo-Dyas placed the order after Phantom Menace with the encouragement and financial backing of a disguised Darth Plagueis, before later being killed by Dooku to cover it up.

Ok, is there some reason the blanks are not filled in in the movies? Why not add, oh all of three minutes to do that ''ah my plan to do this and that and this happened''. Or even better like three three minute takes of like: Yoda and Sam say ''oh so Jedi Somebody did run off and secretly make the army he wanted, without permission, after all''; where Jango calls Palpitine to say ''yo the Jedi found the clone army!'' and Palpitine says ''ah, good'' and Jango says ''Um, should I finally tell Count Dukko about the army? and Pal says ''No, absolutely not!''; and a tiny bit where Palpitine looks over the army and says something like ''Ah, my army I have waited so long for you'' and holds up a computer pad that says something like 'army programed orders'.

Though nothing seems to explain all the hardware......

[BWR]

I'm guessing the blanks were not filled in because they either expected to audience to make some guesses, especially when it's revealed in RotS that Palpatine has been orchestrating everything from the very beginning, or because they wanted to impart a sense of mystery and big blanks to be filled in. In terms of AotC, that's perfectly alright. Also, I think that apart from the existence of the clones and their purpose, the matter of who ordered them, on whose authority, with what money, is actually less intersting to the story than that they exist, are loyal and competant and fight onscreen.

As for the EU, a more important question is why the Jedi didn't do any serious investigating after Geonosis and seemed to blithely accept that one of their members for some reason put in an order for an insane amount of clones and hardware, have the clones be ready for deployment almost exactly when the Clone Wars start and where he got the money. I have this vague feeling it was addressed in one book or comic I read, but I cannot remember which and am too lazy to read through everything to find it. Probably "Labyrinth of Evil".

Dooku did know about the clones, having been the one who contacted Sifo-Dyas to subvert him and use him to place the order for the clones.

[Reverent-One]

The movie said 'units'. For all we know, and probably what the scriptwriters originally meant, was a 'unit of troops', which would be significantly more. However, some later writers, especially the Travissty, had unit=1 soldier, and for some stupid reason everyone had to run with it.

Nope, check the official novelization, it also uses "units" as single troopers. That was the official line for the early authors, it wasn't a creation for the later ones.

[TheThan]

The road runner scene from Kung Fu Hustle.
I mean, I had no idea what was happening, or why it was happening.

Granted I was really upset after seeing the film the first time. See, I expected Kung Fu Hustle to be a gangster film mixed with a kung fu film. Which sounds AWSEOME! What I got was more of an action comedy. Especially after seeing the trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3IB7N_PRk)
(Apparently I had forgotten about the road runner bit in the trailer.)

The movie has grown on me since my initial viewing. But still, I don’t like being mislead like that (or at least given the wrong impression).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Star Wars Holiday Special is one big running continuous flow of these.

Chief amongst them is Leia cozying up to Chewbacca whilst singing the song of Wookie Life Day.

[McStabbington]

I'm guessing the blanks were not filled in because they either expected to audience to make some guesses, especially when it's revealed in RotS that Palpatine has been orchestrating everything from the very beginning, or because they wanted to impart a sense of mystery and big blanks to be filled in. In terms of AotC, that's perfectly alright. Also, I think that apart from the existence of the clones and their purpose, the matter of who ordered them, on whose authority, with what money, is actually less intersting to the story than that they exist, are loyal and competant and fight onscreen.

As for the EU, a more important question is why the Jedi didn't do any serious investigating after Geonosis and seemed to blithely accept that one of their members for some reason put in an order for an insane amount of clones and hardware, have the clones be ready for deployment almost exactly when the Clone Wars start and where he got the money. I have this vague feeling it was addressed in one book or comic I read, but I cannot remember which and am too lazy to read through everything to find it. Probably "Labyrinth of Evil".

Dooku did know about the clones, having been the one who contacted Sifo-Dyas to subvert him and use him to place the order for the clones.

Well, I probably shouldn't have talked about this since it's apparently taken over the thread, and I'm not entirely certain that it's the right use of the term since I think we're looking for Big-Lipped Alligator Moments, but the problem is very simple: if you are going to have a mystery plot, you cannot forget the most important element of a mystery, which is the logic.

There's an assassination attempt on Senator Amidala, okay. The assassination attempt leads back to a bounty hunter, okay. The trail for the bounty hunter leads back to a previously unknown clone army at the precise moment that the galaxy is teetering on the brink of war . . . okay. The point is that we the audience know, as do the Jedi, that there's a conspiracy, and it apparently involves a horde of people cloned from a bounty hunter who just tried to assassinate the leading opponent of creating an Army of the Republic. So we cut to the climax . . . and they're using the clone troopers. With no explanation. No rationalization. No justification of how we got from "The clone troopers are part of the conspiracy" to "We are going to use the clone troopers."

The first time I saw AotC, the time in theaters, I quite literally had slept less than 20 hours that prior week. It came out at the end of finals week, so it was a treat I gave to myself after finishing my last class for the semester of college before I slept for about 36 hours. I assumed that I had missed the in-story explanation that let Yoda, who is usually described as having a modicum of wisdom, bridge that gap from a to b. As it turns out, there is no such explanation in the story. Which meant that wise old Yoda missed something that a human who was quite literally not medically fit to drive because of extreme fatigue could see.

[Legato Endless]

I'm guessing the blanks were not filled in because they either expected to audience to make some guesses, especially when it's revealed in RotS that Palpatine has been orchestrating everything from the very beginning, or because they wanted to impart a sense of mystery and big blanks to be filled in. In terms of AotC, that's perfectly alright. Also, I think that apart from the existence of the clones and their purpose, the matter of who ordered them, on whose authority, with what money, is actually less intersting to the story than that they exist, are loyal and competant and fight onscreen.


I see what you're arguing, but I'm not so certain that's excusable in this format. This isn't the only film where we're left confused because things weren't elucidated well. Take episode 1. Why did the Trade Federation invade Naboo? Most people couldn't tell you besides Darth Sideous told them. Okay fine. But under what auspices? There had to be something they assumed they could accomplish, but you won't know without looking on the wiki. Although this may be for the better, as the explained reason makes the Republic look so incompetent it's no wonder people wanted a revolution. If this were a story of an ordinary family on the run where their planet is invaded by the Trade Federation for nebulous reasons, it's perfectly justified we don't know why it happened. But sadly, Lucas very much intended the prequels to have some vague political drama going on. We really should have some vague notion of the underpinnings to something we spend so much time with. Otherwise it just floats without context. Contrast this with episode 4, where we know exactly why the Empire built the Death Star and intend to do with it. It's all covered with one council meeting, one Leia-Tarkin dialogue and some scrawling text.

[Irk]

The gimp, pulp fiction.
I just was not expecting it to happen at all, it was only afterwards that I could appreciate how the event fit into the story.

[Kitten Champion]

You can understand what's happening in A New Hope without audible dialogue, in terms of just cinematic story-telling it's among the best in the medium even if the script itself is nothing special.

[Sith_Happens]

Ok, is there some reason the blanks are not filled in in the movies?

Not really. I just thought it might be nice to know that at least someone thought of it.


Though nothing seems to explain all the hardware......

There was already a gigantic defense industry churning out product for pretty much everyone in the galaxy but the central government. Even for things like Star Destroyers that there (probably) wasn't already an inventory of, I'd be surprised if the setting's engineers hadn't long ago solved the problem of "how do we turn our existing production capacity towards a new design more or less instantly."

EDIT:


Why did the Trade Federation invade Naboo? Most people couldn't tell you besides Darth Sideous told them. Okay fine. But under what auspices? There had to be something they assumed they could accomplish, but you won't know without looking on the wiki.

IIRC, the Trade Federation honchos in the film explicitly said multiple times that it was an attempt to force the Republic to relax some its trade regulations by essentially holding Naboo hostage.

[BWR]

Yup. I've come across that complaint against TPM before, that people didn't understand why the TF did what it did. I can understand and agree with complaints about bad writing, bad cutting, flat acting Jar-Jar, annoying Anakin and more, but the motivation of the TF and the excuses they had were explicitly spelled out in the movie.

[IthilanorStPete]

The gimp, pulp fiction.
I just was not expecting it to happen at all, it was only afterwards that I could appreciate how the event fit into the story.

Could you explain your take on it? I've never really understood it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yup. I've come across that complaint against TPM before, that people didn't understand why the TF did what it did. I can understand and agree with complaints about bad writing, bad cutting, flat acting Jar-Jar, annoying Anakin and more, but the motivation of the TF and the excuses they had were explicitly spelled out in the movie.
The bigger problem is that it's a rather uninteresting and odd motivation for the Star Wars franchise.

[BWR]

It works perfectly. Palpatine is on the way up but so far he is the senator for a minor, if respected, system and he's no spring chicken. He has spent his life working up to his position as well as masterin the Force, but he cannot spend several decades more on improving his position. So he engineers a situation where he can play the outraged spokesperson for his people, garner a lot of sympathy in the senate for the plight of his poor planet, that is at the mercy of these horrible Evil Capitalists who only want money. Sure the Jedi throw a wrench into his plans when they escape and get the Queen safely to Coruscant, but he runs with it. Really, this doesn't exactly hurt his position.
He plays up the corruption in the senate angle (which is probably entirely valid), gets the current Supreme Chancellor deposed and through his machinations gets himself elected SC.

The actual excuse they use is almost irrelevant: economics and greedy merchants, honor insults to warrior race, territorial disputes, religious issues; it could have been any of these and he would have played the thing the way. The important bit is that Palpatine was seen as a respected senator whose homeworld was attacked at next to no provocation by a more powerful group, and he milks that for all it's worth to win over the people he hasn't already controlled through various other means and get himself on top of the political heap.
As for being uninteresting, they don't spend any more time on it than necessary to explain the situation and the motivations sufficiently, then get on to action and 'drama'.

Motivation: Palpatine wants to take over the galaxy. The invasion of Naboo is just a step towards that. The TF were obviously under Palp's control, so that's all the motivation they need. The rest of the players' motivations are clear: traditional good guy stuff about freedom and peace.

[Dragoa]

From the movie Ankle Biters.

The movie is about vampires, and the only way to kill a vampire is to inject them with vampire blood.

Ya. I still haven't really come up with a good reason for that yet, best I've been able to deduce is that once the blood gets exposed to light it mutates somehow and becomes poisonous...Ya, no it just really doesn't make sense.

[TheThan]

It works perfectly. Palpatine is on the way up but so far he is the senator for a minor, if respected, system and he's no spring chicken. He has spent his life working up to his position as well as masterin the Force, but he cannot spend several decades more on improving his position. So he engineers a situation where he can play the outraged spokesperson for his people, garner a lot of sympathy in the senate for the plight of his poor planet, that is at the mercy of these horrible Evil Capitalists who only want money. Sure the Jedi throw a wrench into his plans when they escape and get the Queen safely to Coruscant, but he runs with it. Really, this doesn't exactly hurt his position.
He plays up the corruption in the senate angle (which is probably entirely valid), gets the current Supreme Chancellor deposed and through his machinations gets himself elected SC.

The actual excuse they use is almost irrelevant: economics and greedy merchants, honor insults to warrior race, territorial disputes, religious issues; it could have been any of these and he would have played the thing the way. The important bit is that Palpatine was seen as a respected senator whose homeworld was attacked at next to no provocation by a more powerful group, and he milks that for all it's worth to win over the people he hasn't already controlled through various other means and get himself on top of the political heap.
As for being uninteresting, they don't spend any more time on it than necessary to explain the situation and the motivations sufficiently, then get on to action and 'drama'.

Motivation: Palpatine wants to take over the galaxy. The invasion of Naboo is just a step towards that. The TF were obviously under Palp's control, so that's all the motivation they need. The rest of the players' motivations are clear: traditional good guy stuff about freedom and peace.

I think the problem is that we have no motive for the trade federation. What is Palpatine promising them? What do they think they can gain from invading a planet that (as far as we see) has little to no financial importance?
lets compare the opening crawl of Episode I with episode IV.

The Phantom Menace:


Turmoil has engulfed the
Galactic Republic. The taxation
of trade routes to outlying star
systems is in dispute.

Hoping to resolve the matter
with a blockade of deadly
battleships, the greedy Trade
Federation has stopped all
shipping to the small planet
of Naboo.

While the congress of the
Republic endlessly debates
this alarming chain of events,
the Supreme Chancellor has
secretly dispatched two Jedi
Knights, the guardians of
peace and justice in the
galaxy, to settle the conflict.



We’re not really told anything about this situation. How can blockading a planet fix a tax problem? Moreover “the taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute” is pretty dang vague, you probably could replace this with any political sounding chatter and it’d work.
I think that Lucas went a little Meta on the plot and figured that nobody wanted Star Wars to turn into a political drama; but by adding in politics at all, you open up the potential to turn it into a political drama. Which might have been more interesting, but I digress.

We have no real context for what has been happening. and why the events that are going down the way they are in the film. we're given the who's, "the greedy trade federation" and "the Jedi, custodians of peace and justice" but not really a "why". therefore we're left with more questions than answers.

A new Hope:



It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.

During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
STAR, an armored space
station with enough power
to destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Empire's
sinister agents, Princess
Leia races home aboard her
starship, custodian of the
stolen plans that can save her
people and restore
freedom to the galaxy....


We’re told exactly who (the princess) is being chased by who (the empire’s sinister agents), and why they are chasing her (custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy.) That way when the opening begins with the space battle, we may not know what has gone on before, but we know why it’s happening. Without this opening crawl we’d have no real context. We wouldn’t know who the good guys are at first glance without it. Everything we really need or want to know is answered for us so we don't have any real unanswered questions.



I also think Lucas knew that people knew that Palaptine and the emperor is the same person. So he didn’t bother trying to make it a big reveal, or even take steps to make sure he comes off as the manipulator that he’s supposed to be. That was actually a bad idea, because now any convenient plot twists don’t come off as something planned by the emperor but as lazy writing. It’s the whole “just as I planned buahahahah!” cop out.

[Sith_Happens]

How can blockading a planet fix a tax problem?

It's called a hostage situation. One of the exec's lines is (very slight paraphrase) "The Republic will revise its policies or Naboo will starve."

[TheThan]

It's called a hostage situation. One of the exec's lines is (very slight paraphrase) "The Republic will revise its policies or Naboo will starve."

So you’re saying that Naboo has no indigenous crops or food production capabilities of any kind. They have no industry (to produce the things they need) to speak of across their entire planet?

Its not like we see the federation bombarding the planet and destroying swaths of farmland or industrial complexes.

So at least as far as the initial blockade goes, i don't quite buy it.

OK so we're told they've been rounded up into camps, but Obi-wan says its a trick and not to reply. So we don't really know what the actual situation is. Now keep in mind this happened after Jedi arrived, and the trade federation were clearly intimidated into landing their troops. It looks like Palaptine was playing it by ear at that point in time. He's clearly irritated that the Jedi showed up there at all, so clearly he didn't know about it ahead of time. so we have no clue as to what their original plans (if any) were.

[Sith_Happens]

Presumably not "starve" literally, but there has to be something almost any given planet needs that it can't produce itself.

[Traab]

So you’re saying that Naboo has no indigenous crops or food production capabilities of any kind. They have no industry (to produce the things they need) to speak of across their entire planet?

Its not like we see the federation bombarding the planet and destroying swaths of farmland or industrial complexes.

So at least as far as the initial blockade goes, i don't quite buy it.

OK so we're told they've been rounded up into camps, but Obi-wan says its a trick and not to reply. So we don't really know what the actual situation is. Now keep in mind this happened after Jedi arrived, and the trade federation were clearly intimidated into landing their troops. It looks like Palaptine was playing it by ear at that point in time. He's clearly irritated that the Jedi showed up there at all, so clearly he didn't know about it ahead of time. so we have no clue as to what their original plans (if any) were.

Its the same effect as the blockades we do on earth. Or sanctions. When you block stuff from coming in or going out, it really messes with you. Mainly because while, technically you COULD be self sufficient, your entire nation/world is built around dealing with the rest of the world/galaxy.

[Legato Endless]

You can understand what's happening in A New Hope without audible dialogue, in terms of just cinematic story-telling it's among the best in the medium even if the script itself is nothing special.

Excellent point.


Its the same effect as the blockades we do on earth. Or sanctions. When you block stuff from coming in or going out, it really messes with you. Mainly because while, technically you COULD be self sufficient, your entire nation/world is built around dealing with the rest of the world/galaxy.

True, but applying real life logic is problematic at best for this scenario. It's not like an embargo between countries, it's like the local Buy and Large deciding they can starve 10% of the nation's population. Also the invasion seems unnecessary in this reasoning. If they already have the planet trade locked, they don't need to occupy it. This is great for Palpatine, but completely unnecesary for the Federation. But again, I'm at fault for applying anything resembling real life here. After all, the film's resolution at both sides relies upon the idea that a contract signed under obvious duress is totally legally binding, and that the chief executive of a planet can somehow hand wave interstellar law by agreeing to the whole affair.

Apologies OP. This kind of took over the thread.

[Gnoman]

The Trade Federation is shown to have their own Senate representatives, their own navy, and an army. They are clearly a de facto soverign state of the Republic (however that works), no different from Naboo itself, even if they don't hold that status in law. If warfare between member states is not outright prohibited, as sending the Jedi in as mediators to resolve the conflict instead of soldiers to end the blockade suggests, then that right would also apply to the TF.

[Legato Endless]

The Trade Federation is shown to have their own Senate representatives, their own navy, and an army. They are clearly a de facto soverign state of the Republic (however that works), no different from Naboo itself, even if they don't hold that status in law. If warfare between member states is not outright prohibited, as sending the Jedi in as mediators to resolve the conflict instead of soldiers to end the blockade suggests, then that right would also apply to the TF.

I think this where a lot of confusion comes from. The story seems to portray the Republic as both a loose coalition and yet also a functioning federal state with a very real executive depending on what the plot needs.

[Traab]

Excellent point.



True, but applying real life logic is problematic at best for this scenario. It's not like an embargo between countries, it's like the local Buy and Large deciding they can starve 10% of the nation's population. Also the invasion seems unnecessary in this reasoning. If they already have the planet trade locked, they don't need to occupy it. This is great for Palpatine, but completely unnecesary for the Federation. But again, I'm at fault for applying anything resembling real life here. After all, the film's resolution at both sides relies upon the idea that a contract signed under obvious duress is totally legally binding, and that the chief executive of a planet can somehow hand wave interstellar law by agreeing to the whole affair.

Apologies OP. This kind of took over the thread.

But it still works the same general way. If a faction, ANY faction, manages to successfully block off all import and export, then you are going to suffer for it. And they have a rather large droid army to work with as well, so they can back it up. As for Gnoman, I see the trade federation as sort of like a super OPEC. They arent a separate nation as such, but the organization controls so much wealth and power through what it does, that it can basically be recognized as a power on par with any other physical nation due to the harm it could cause if it stopped doing what it does.

[SmartAlec]

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

For the first half of the movie it's been a fairly interesting story of a young noble girl stealing a magic sword so she can be a hero and avoid an arranged marriage, the sword's original owner trying to get it back, and there's a side-plot with a poisoner being chased by a policeman, his daughter, and the comic relief.

Then, the evening after the main confrontation that ended that arc, the noble girl's been confined to her room. Suddenly, her bandit lover (who has not appeared so far in the movie) gets in through the window, and tells her that he's finally returned to take her away and live beyond the bounds of civilised boredom, like they always wanted.

Cue a half-hour-long flashback, telling us how these two met (he kidnapped her on the road), fell in love (it happened while she was a hostage), and were seperated.

And after the longest flashback I've ever seen in a movie, we come back to present day at that moment just after he appeared in her room, and she tells him, 'no'.

:smallconfused:

... then he leaves and we get back to the story revolving around the magic sword as she steals it a second time. Weird.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think the problem is that we have no motive for the trade federation. What is Palpatine promising them? What do they think they can gain from invading a planet that (as far as we see) has little to no financial importance?

I don't see what the problem is. I really don't (besides, the planet seems reasonably wealthy).

The TF (which basically is a mix of the Hansa and the East Indian company) wants any number of these things:
Lower taxes.
Lower tolls.
Larger quotas, either to export or to buy.

It is very very likely that the TF would have repeated their gambit on other planets had Naboo caved in to their demands.


True, but applying real life logic is problematic at best for this scenario. It's not like an embargo between countries, it's like the local Buy and Large deciding they can starve 10% of the nation's population.

This is not entirely true. As pointed out above, and by me in this post, the TF is basically a nation in itself. It is basically the Hansa, but with a little bit of East India company thrown in. The Hansa was a coalition of city republics, run by traders, that controlled most of the trade in western and northern Europe. They did not have a standing army, but a crapload of money and could buy huge mercenary armies at the drop of a hat. At the height of the Hansa's power, you did not screw with them, or you WOULD be starved. You would have no way of selling or buying goods. And they would most likely capture any ships you tried to send out yourself instead of going through them.
Similar organisations existed in the mediterranean at the same time.

[JustSomeGuy]

I'm not big on star wars, so forgive me please if i've missed anything obvious, however: Any issues with using a clone army must also surely apply to using a droid army, no? The robots (at least some of them) appear to be pretty sentient and self - preservation is a real thing for them, as is learning and developing. They (assumably) could be 'reprogrammed' into more advanced 'mental states', sort of akin to education, right? So just becasue you are growing a biological soldier and educating/training them to be soldiers, isn't that pretty similar to building and programming a droid soldier - is there anything covering their 'legal status as combatants and life forms/people'? I mean, if a robot can be a high ranking military officer, and slavery exists, doesn't that muddy the waters of what is ok enough that some special forces/secret police (jedis) can discover and immediately use a ready built and fully trained army regardless of who/what it comprises of? Or is this not even an issue and i'm reading something into nothing?

[BWR]

Droids are not considered sentient in the SW-verse. Anakin was considered a bit odd for having the sort of attachment to R2 that he had. Of course this general attitude makes the whole 'give a droid a medal'-ceremony of TPM even more stupid, but that's beside the point. Droids are just moving, talking furniture, they aren't people. In some EU material there were droid rebellions, and droids were commonly memory-wiped at regular intervals to prevent the development of personality and decrease the possibility of going rogue. Again R2 is almost unique in the SW verse that he has by the time of ROTJ been operating for 30 or more years without a wipe and remained true to his core purpose.

The most important part of the droid army is that your average b1 battledroid is cheap **** that the TF mass produces. They are quick and easy to make but are slow, terrible marksmen, have little intelligence and basically just work by overwhelming numbers. There are several other more dangerous types.
The most important thing is that most of the important Seperatists have immense droid factories that they can use, and the Jedi have no problems destroying droids. While they may have felt some reservation about killing tons of people on the battlefield, they don't have that problem with droids. So the Jedi trap works extra well giving the Jedi an unliving, unfeeling faceless horde to fight while leading 'meat droids' whom they feel sorry for.

[Avilan the Grey]

Droids are not considered sentient in the SW-verse. Anakin was considered a bit odd for having the sort of attachment to R2 that he had. Of course this general attitude makes the whole 'give a droid a medal'-ceremony of TPM even more stupid, but that's beside the point. Droids are just moving, talking furniture, they aren't people..

Yes, all this is very odd and have a lot of Unfortunate Implications when you think about it, because "non-sentient" battle droids are saying things like "Uh-Oh" as comic relief in the prequels...

It might be a case of "But I must Scream"; where sentient, or proto-sentient beings are trapped by their programming, and cannot avoid doing what they are told to do...

Also, note C3PO's outrage that "droids making droids". Apparently that is some sort of morally wrong act, and each droid should be built by hand, by a person. Why, nobody knows.

[hamishspence]

The movie said 'units'. For all we know, and probably what the scriptwriters originally meant, was a 'unit of troops', which would be significantly more. However, some later writers, especially the Travissty, had unit=1 soldier, and for some stupid reason everyone had to run with it.
In the AOTC novel, Obi-Wan clarifies for Mace that "unit" means "1 soldier".

And it's the same in Shatterpoint, written before Traviss started writing SW.

Lucas, if anyone, is likely to be the one to blame.

[Killer Angel]

I will cite From dusk till dawn.

I've yet to see a movie with a so massive twist in plot and mood... :smallbiggrin:
I was literally speechless, and with staring eyes, when vampires entered in action.

[Traab]

I will cite From dusk till dawn.

I've yet to see a movie with a so massive twist in plot and mood... :smallbiggrin:
I was literally speechless, and with staring eyes, when vampires entered in action.

You want a "WTF?!" moment? I just drove past a strip club called From Dusk Till Dawn. I was like, "Really? You think naming your club after a movie that involved a strip club full of murderous vampires is a good idea?" Especially considering in this part of town none of the dancers will be salma hyack. So not really worth the risk.

[hamishspence]

Maybe they named it that way specifically in order to attract the attention of people who watched that movie?

Or maybe it's just a flukey coincidence- with the movie using a name that was already fairly common.

[Brother Oni]

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

[snip]

And after the longest flashback I've ever seen in a movie, we come back to present day at that moment just after he appeared in her room, and she tells him, 'no'.

:smallconfused:


Having a massive flashback in the middle of a story is fairly standard for this genre and is probably in the original book. It also doesn't help that the original novel is book 4 of a pentology.

As an example of this, keeping track of the plot in Romance of the Three Kingdoms can get quite tricky at the start since you're stumbling over a couple new characters and their 1/2 page backstory in every chapter, although that may be more to do with the original episodic oral nature of the stories and the author's method of collating them into a single narrative.

[Chen]

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

For the first half of the movie it's been a fairly interesting story of a young noble girl stealing a magic sword so she can be a hero and avoid an arranged marriage, the sword's original owner trying to get it back, and there's a side-plot with a poisoner being chased by a policeman, his daughter, and the comic relief.

Then, the evening after the main confrontation that ended that arc, the noble girl's been confined to her room. Suddenly, her bandit lover (who has not appeared so far in the movie) gets in through the window, and tells her that he's finally returned to take her away and live beyond the bounds of civilised boredom, like they always wanted.

Cue a half-hour-long flashback, telling us how these two met (he kidnapped her on the road), fell in love (it happened while she was a hostage), and were seperated.

And after the longest flashback I've ever seen in a movie, we come back to present day at that moment just after he appeared in her room, and she tells him, 'no'.

:smallconfused:

... then he leaves and we get back to the story revolving around the magic sword as she steals it a second time. Weird.

Uh did you not finish watching that movie? The bandit lover and the girl's relationship with him is pretty important right up until the end. I do grant the flashback was long, but they had to introduce that backstory somehow.

[Avilan the Grey]

Uh did you not finish watching that movie? The bandit lover and the girl's relationship with him is pretty important right up until the end. I do grant the flashback was long, but they had to introduce that backstory somehow.

I didn't get the WTF reaction, but I must say I found the movie boring.

[Brother Oni]

I didn't get the WTF reaction, but I must say I found the movie boring.

How so? Didn't like the plot, the action, the characters, their acting, the subtitles, all of the above?

[JustSomeGuy]

Didn't finish crouching tiger either, just couldn't get into it. From what I remember, it was people acting overly dramatic and serious, then flying about pouncing on walls/rooftops etc.

[Killer Angel]

You want a "WTF?!" moment? I just drove past a strip club called From Dusk Till Dawn. I was like, "Really? You think naming your club after a movie that involved a strip club full of murderous vampires is a good idea?" Especially considering in this part of town none of the dancers will be salma hyack. So not really worth the risk.

Well, at least the Club's owner got some taste in films... :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

How so? Didn't like the plot, the action, the characters, their acting, the subtitles, all of the above?

Action too over the top, plot uninteresting. Subtitles I don't mind; I am Swedish, all movies have subtitles (we never dub anything except kid movies, and even those are always also shown undubbed).

[Legato Endless]

As for Gnoman, I see the trade federation as sort of like a super OPEC. They arent a separate nation as such, but the organization controls so much wealth and power through what it does, that it can basically be recognized as a power on par with any other physical nation due to the harm it could cause if it stopped doing what it does.


This is not entirely true. As pointed out above, and by me in this post, the TF is basically a nation in itself. It is basically the Hansa, but with a little bit of East India company thrown in.

Hmm, good points. That makes a fair bit more sense, though it only biases me further into the belief that the best thing for a populated planet in the Star Wars universe is to remain undiscovered.


Uh did you not finish watching that movie? The bandit lover and the girl's relationship with him is pretty important right up until the end. I do grant the flashback was long, but they had to introduce that backstory somehow.

That's interesting. Most of the time I hear people complain about not getting the ending, rather than the flashback.

[Brother Oni]

Didn't finish crouching tiger either, just couldn't get into it. From what I remember, it was people acting overly dramatic and serious, then flying about pouncing on walls/rooftops etc.

Not getting into it is perfectly understandable.

It's a genre movie (wuxia) of which it was the first major movie to become popular in the west. If you're not used to the genre, then there's obviously going to be some dissonance much like someone who's never seen a musical before wondering why the actors are breaking into song and dance at random intervals.

It also wasn't intended for an international audience, so there's plenty of Chinese cultural references and conventions that the intended audience was assumed to have, so lack of understanding is another problem.

Complaining that it was boring is a different issue - it'd be like someone who doesn't like war films complaining that Saving Private Ryan was boring. There's a number of criticisms that can be levelled at that movie, but boring is definitely not one of them.


Action too over the top, plot uninteresting. Subtitles I don't mind; I am Swedish, all movies have subtitles (we never dub anything except kid movies, and even those are always also shown undubbed).

'Action too over the top' is another genre related problem. If you were expecting a standard martial arts movie then I understand completely your issue (it's the same problem I had during the first fight scene until I recalibrated my expectations and I'm used to HK wire-fu movies).

Not so sure about the uninteresting plot problem though - I suspect that might be personal preference as there's plenty going on in the plot with some strong underlying themes, such as duty versus following your heart.

[Avilan the Grey]

'Action too over the top' is another genre related problem. If you were expecting a standard martial arts movie then I understand completely your issue (it's the same problem I had during the first fight scene until I recalibrated my expectations and I'm used to HK wire-fu movies).

Not so sure about the uninteresting plot problem though - I suspect that might be personal preference as there's plenty going on in the plot with some strong underlying themes, such as duty versus following your heart.

It is my first and last Wuxia film to date; I didn't know what to expect when I saw it. I very much prefer the martial art movies from the 70ies, myself.

Anyway... I don't know. All I can say is that it is one of the very few movies that I cannot really recall the plot of. None of the characters struck a cord with me, except maybe the female lead hero, but I adore Michelle Yeoh.

[No brains]

When I first saw Alien, the entire movie was the biggest WITIDE for me.

When I saw Aliens after, the shift in tone turned the WITIDE again.

When I saw Alien(cubed), the **** turned it again.

By Alien Resurrection, I was sinking in a maelstrom; I did not have to ask, "Where's The Flounder" for they were in a feeding frenzy.

Then Prometheus and I drowned.

[SmartAlec]

Uh did you not finish watching that movie? The bandit lover and the girl's relationship with him is pretty important right up until the end. I do grant the flashback was long, but they had to introduce that backstory somehow.

Oh, I know it's important from that point on. But I suppose being used to mainstream, fairly predictable western theatre and film, I expected to see something that would be crucial at the end be raised in the beginning. Seeing it done differently was confusing, at least the first time I saw it. Culture shock!

[Velaryon]

Most of the Star Wars problems have been addressed by now, though I would like to contribute my own understanding anyway.

I thought the Trade Federation's motives were fairly clear - tie up Naboo militarily in order to win concessions from the Senate while Darth Sidious promises to make sure the Republic bureaucracy can't muster an effective response. Why Sidious didn't have a better plan to keep the Jedi from getting involved is not clear to me, though he adjusts on the fly pretty well for the most part.

The whole clone army thing could have been made a little clearer, but as others have said, it boils down to: Sifo Dyas orders the clone army in secret, using Jango Fett as template, because he's doing it on behalf of Palpatine's conspiracy. They could have made this connection more strongly if they hadn't suddenly dropped the whole investigation plot line as soon as the armed conflict started.

I think someone said that Sifo Dyas placed the order after The Phantom Menace and that Darth Plagueis was involved, but I don't see how that's possible. According to the Sith Rule of Two, there can never be more than two Sith, so wouldn't Plagueis have to have already been dead before Sidious started training Darth Maul?

I do agree that the hardware and ships to equip the clone army did seem to come out of nowhere. This could have been addressed with one throwaway line on Kamino, with the Kaminoans mentioning that the weapons and ships came as part of a package deal or something, but AFAIK no such mention was made.

I'm starting to think the majority of The Phantom Menace should have been scrapped, and the investigation plot of Attack of the Clones could have been started a lot sooner. Oh well, it's hardly the only flaw of the Star Wars prequels.



I will cite From dusk till dawn.

I've yet to see a movie with a so massive twist in plot and mood... :smallbiggrin:
I was literally speechless, and with staring eyes, when vampires entered in action.

I have to agree with this. I had no idea going in that it was going to be a vampire movie. Halfway through what looked to be a pretty cool kidnapping thriller, suddenly it turns into a completely different over-the-top movie. And then the title From Dusk Til Dawn suddenly made more sense.

[Avilan the Grey]

I have to agree with this. I had no idea going in that it was going to be a vampire movie. Halfway through what looked to be a pretty cool kidnapping thriller, suddenly it turns into a completely different over-the-top movie. And then the title From Dusk Til Dawn suddenly made more sense.

Since all reviews here spoiled the twist, that wasn't a problem for me...
Also, all the pictures EVERYWHERE of a certain someone dancing with a snake...

[TheThan]

Since all reviews here spoiled the twist, that wasn't a problem for me...
Also, all the pictures EVERYWHERE of a certain someone dancing with a snake...

I kinda had the opposite reaction, I knew from dusk till dawn was a vampire strip club flick going into it. So it was a little confused with the kidnapping thriller opening. I was actually wondering if I was watching the right film, or if there was some other film of the same name staring the same people, directed by the same person. Then they got to the strip club and I was like “ok it’s about time”.

Now back to star wars.


I can buy a single nation placing a trade embargo on another nation. That happens in real life. But when they do it to an entire planet, then I have a hard time buying it because there is no way, short of planetary bombardment, to starve a whole planet of its natural resources within a reasonable period of time. Sure the Naboo may have to go without the newest version of the iphone, but they’ll still have the resources they need to survive.

Ok, I can see two plausible ways of this going down.

1: If the blockaded planet is Coruscant, in which the entire planet is a city, that NEEDS it’s imports to survive. Even then, if they tried it on Coruscant, somebody somewhere is going to get mad and try to break the blockade. Not to mention all the ships that are going to try to run the blockade. They can’t shoot them all down (heck they failed to get the ONE ship that even bothered to try).
2: Naboo actually only has two cities on it, Theed and Otoh Gunga. In which case it’d be pretty easy to actually capture and secure. The problem is that wookiepedia lists 24 major cities on the planet. It also lists their major imports as technology, processed foods, and their major exports as plasma, grains, art, cultural items and wine. So from this we know that they can produce their own food, (grains) and that they have domesticated and wild animals (shown in episodes I, II) so yeah, they most likely have the capacity to survive indefinitely without outside trade.

So yeah, I don’t really see it happening, short of planetary bombardment.

[Velaryon]

Since all reviews here spoiled the twist, that wasn't a problem for me...
Also, all the pictures EVERYWHERE of a certain someone dancing with a snake...

Yeah, I have no idea how I went as long as I did without ever knowing that about the film, but I watched it for the first time maybe two years ago and I had NO idea what it was about.

[BWR]

I thought the Trade Federation's motives were fairly clear - tie up Naboo militarily in order to win concessions from the Senate while Darth Sidious promises to make sure the Republic bureaucracy can't muster an effective response. Why Sidious didn't have a better plan to keep the Jedi from getting involved is not clear to me, though he adjusts on the fly pretty well for the most part.
[/SPOILER]

I'm guessing he tries to avoid over-planning if at all possible. If your grand plan hinges on everything following exact plans with many unknowns, you are doomed to failure. It would not surprise me if he had planned for the contingency that the TF might fail to hold Naboo. After all, what Palps needed was not Naboo to fall permanently, he just needed the TF to attack and create enough of a political ****storm for him to oust Valorum and take over. As for taking steps to prevent the Jedi getting involved, perhaps he tried and failed. IIRC, the Jedi deal directly with the Supreme Chancellor's office and at the time I don't think P had much pull there. Perhaps he actually hoped for the Jedi to get involved and be killed, turning the Jedi against the Tf (and later the Seps) from the beginning.

[QUOTE]
The whole clone army thing could have been made a little clearer, but as others have said, it boils down to: Sifo Dyas orders the clone army in secret, using Jango Fett as template, because he's doing it on behalf of Palpatine's conspiracy. They could have made this connection more strongly if they hadn't suddenly dropped the whole investigation plot line as soon as the armed conflict started.
Annoying, but you can see why the problem occurred. They actually were investigating the mystery - Obi-Wan was following the best lead they had, Jango, then got captured. Then suddenly lots of dead Jedi and war. In the chaos, some things are put on the back burner and either forgotten, not prioritized, and some important loose ends are tied up.



I think someone said that Sifo Dyas placed the order after The Phantom Menace and that Darth Plagueis was involved, but I don't see how that's possible. According to the Sith Rule of Two, there can never be more than two Sith, so wouldn't Plagueis have to have already been dead before Sidious started training Darth Maul?

I haven't read that book but I believe Palpatine decided that rules were made to be broken. He knew he was going to kill Plagueis, so just got started early with training the apprentice. No sense in wasting time training someone after his big plan is under way.


I do agree that the hardware and ships to equip the clone army did seem to come out of nowhere. This could have been addressed with one throwaway line on Kamino, with the Kaminoans mentioning that the weapons and ships came as part of a package deal or something, but AFAIK no such mention was made.

Except that we see the clones geared up in armor on Kamino. And is it really that much of a stretch to believe that Palpatine was smart enough to buy hardware for his troops at the same time as he ordered the troops? Not to mention that we saw the outside of Kamino three times: where obi-Wan landed, Jango's landing platform and the bridge Obi landed on after he kicked himself off Jango's platform. There could be pleny of places for troopships and armor vehicles that we didn't see, and it's not surprising we didn't see any of that stuff indoors.

[Avilan the Grey]

I can buy a single nation placing a trade embargo on another nation. That happens in real life. But when they do it to an entire planet, then I have a hard time buying it because there is no way, short of planetary bombardment, to starve a whole planet of its natural resources within a reasonable period of time. Sure the Naboo may have to go without the newest version of the iphone, but they’ll still have the resources they need to survive.

Ok, I can see two plausible ways of this going down.

1: If the blockaded planet is Coruscant, in which the entire planet is a city, that NEEDS it’s imports to survive. Even then, if they tried it on Coruscant, somebody somewhere is going to get mad and try to break the blockade. Not to mention all the ships that are going to try to run the blockade. They can’t shoot them all down (heck they failed to get the ONE ship that even bothered to try).
2: Naboo actually only has two cities on it, Theed and Otoh Gunga. In which case it’d be pretty easy to actually capture and secure. The problem is that wookiepedia lists 24 major cities on the planet. It also lists their major imports as technology, processed foods, and their major exports as plasma, grains, art, cultural items and wine. So from this we know that they can produce their own food, (grains) and that they have domesticated and wild animals (shown in episodes I, II) so yeah, they most likely have the capacity to survive indefinitely without outside trade.

So yeah, I don’t really see it happening, short of planetary bombardment.


With all due respect, you are applying logic to a space opera. :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

I haven't read that book but I believe Palpatine decided that rules were made to be broken. He knew he was going to kill Plagueis, so just got started early with training the apprentice. No sense in wasting time training someone after his big plan is under way.

Yup- he told Plagueis Maul was just going to be his Force-sensitive assassin, and not a true initiate into the ways of the Sith.

In the newest book, Darth Maul: Lockdown (not out yet, but excerpts have been shown) we see Plagueis making use of Maul as well.


is it really that much of a stretch to believe that Palpatine was smart enough to buy hardware for his troops at the same time as he ordered the troops?

True. The Essential Guide to Warfare explains it in the "Begin, the Clone War does" section:

The Grand Army began as a vision of Sifo-Dyas, a Jedi Master from the Cassandran worlds whose gift of precognition was tragically undercut by the fact that his peers rarely believed his visions to be true. Sifo-Dyas sensed that the Republic would soon face an existential threat - and so he sought an army that would allow it to survive, contracting with the Kaminoans to create it and supplying the initial funding.

But Sifo-Dyas never saw his army. He was murdered, and his secret project taken over by Darth Sidious. Sidious directed his apprentice, the fallen Jedi Count Dooku, to supply a prime clone to the Kaminoans, with the bounty hunter Jango Fett accepting the role in return for five million credits and an unaltered clone of himself, his "son" Boba. In his guise as Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, Sidious then funded untold billions of credits to the Kaminoans and to Kuat Drive Yards, whose Rothana Heavy Engineering subsidiary secretly created a slew of new warships and artilllery weapons for the army. Obi-Wan eventually discovered what was happening on Geonosis, but Sidious was untroubled. His plan had always relied on the Republic's arming itself. Sifo-Dyas had seen the future, but not the wheels driving what he saw, and had unwittingly helped bring about the very war that had alarmed him.

[Keldrin]

Liquid Sky;
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085852/?ref_=nv_sr_1
psychedelics gone maaad.

The Allnighter; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092537/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_6
Susanna Hoffs from the Bangles in a really dumb college comedy. Wait for the beached dolphin impression.


Starcrash; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079946/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Starring the delectable Caroline Munro and her badly edited costume changes, Marjoe Gortner with a lightsword (it's NOT a rip-off!), a robot that talks like John Wayne, and a visibly embarrassed Christopher Plummer, ("Imperial Starship, reverse the flow of Time!"). So bad, it entertains ('cause dear gods it's not good), although you keep looking at your friends and saying "whaat"?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

With all due respect, you are applying logic to a space opera. :smallbiggrin:
A space opera where one of the movies is driven by...

...trade regulations, that most riveting of all dramatic premises. :smalltongue:

[Traab]

The thing is, its pretty clear the trade federation was always going to invade. I think it started out as a blockade as an excuse to get their forces to the planet without causing as massive of an outcry as an outright invasion would cause. Then by the time they received word in the senate it would be a done deal. The queen was captured, she signed whatever they wanted her to sign, and there isnt much that can be done by the senate. Naboo becomes a puppet planet controlled by the trade federation with a thing veneer of independence (with plenty of droids in the background) and its case closed.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah--for me, that's just too subtle and political to work in Star Wars, which is a big, bombastic space opera. I mean, we had a political situation in the original, but it was pretty clear-cut: there's a person in power being kidnapped by an evil empire. That's a good opener to a good-versus-evil space war.

[JustSomeGuy]

Liquid Sky;
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085852/?ref_=nv_sr_1
psychedelics gone maaad.

The Allnighter; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092537/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_6
Susanna Hoffs from the Bangles in a really dumb college comedy. Wait for the beached dolphin impression.


Starcrash; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079946/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Starring the delectable Caroline Munro and her badly edited costume changes, Marjoe Gortner with a lightsword (it's NOT a rip-off!), a robot that talks like John Wayne, and a visibly embarrassed Christopher Plummer, ("Imperial Starship, reverse the flow of Time!"). So bad, it entertains ('cause dear gods it's not good), although you keep looking at your friends and saying "whaat"?


This reads to me like some part will end up as an opener for a spam thread somewhere on the internet!

[TheThan]

With all due respect, you are applying logic to a space opera. :smallbiggrin:
True, but that doesn’t mean things can’t make a small amount of sense.

I totally agree with others. The political aspects of the Original trilogy were severely undercut by the current situation. You were never left thinking “why build this death star?” because Grand Moff Tarkin actually says why “fear will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station”. That’s all we get, and that’s all we really need. It’s a simple enough situation that the audience can just roll with it. it allows us to know that the villains are capable and willing to build weapons of mass destruction and actually use them on live targets.

In The Phantom Menace we’re given this complicated political situation and we’re just supposed to roll with it, but the audience can’t because it’s too complicated innately. We’re stuck with “what’s going on here. I don’t get it?” we may be able to decipher what’s happening in the movie, but we don’t know why it’s happening. context can be just as important as the action of the film.

[Keldrin]

This reads to me like some part will end up as an opener for a spam thread somewhere on the internet!

Hmm, not a good sign of how my mind works perhaps.

Saw a lot of bad movies in the '80s, these were just a few that popped into my head.

Although I would love to own Starcrash to inflict on unsuspecting folks. It's just crazy.

[thubby]

begotten

the entire thing

[Keldrin]

Beloved; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120603/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_11

Apparently a faithful adaptation of a Toni Morrison, award winning novel. But if you haven't read it, the blurb on the cover, doesn't begin to warn you of what is going to happen. You might even think it's a heart warming family movie.

Oy vey.

You'll never look at Oprah the same way again.

[molten_dragon]

All of the movie Prometheus. All of the idiocy of the 'scientists' left me wondering how any of them survived that long into adulthood.

[Keldrin]

I suppose it's low hanging fruit to mention the first D&D movie?

Too many WTF? moments to count...

[Geno9999]

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

The "hide in a refrigerator to avoid nuclear bomb test."

For one, the sheer force of the refrigerator being sent FLYING through the air and subsequently landing should've killed Indiana.

[Legato Endless]

I suppose it's low hanging fruit to mention the first D&D movie?

Too many WTF? moments to count...

Well, this is a movie that treats the morality of slavery being based on skin tone and royal blood while still phoning in a message of equality for human beings. Nevertheless, I would still give the ending special credit for going above and beyond anything else. Absolutely no one in the audience had any idea what happened in the final five minutes.

[BWR]

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

The "hide in a refrigerator to avoid nuclear bomb test."

For one, the sheer force of the refrigerator being sent FLYING through the air and subsequently landing should've killed Indiana.

While the fridge may have been excessive, it's not like Indy hasn't done impossible things from the very first movie. Think of him in D&D terms: he's a lot higher level now with a lot more hit points nd a better Fortitude save.

[Legato Endless]

While the fridge may have been excessive, it's not like Indy hasn't done impossible things from the very first movie. Think of him in D&D terms: he's a lot higher level now with a lot more hit points nd a better Fortitude save.

Quite. I think it's a tonal issue that breaks people's immersion. Indy being on a nuclear testing site in the first place is kind of bizarre, regardless of what happens afterward.

[Brother Oni]

Quite. I think it's a tonal issue that breaks people's immersion. Indy being on a nuclear testing site in the first place is kind of bizarre, regardless of what happens afterward.

Perfectly in keeping with the post WW2 feel of the movie though.

Russians/communism as the bad guys was a major theme of the era, another would be nuclear testing.

[Wraith]

The most WITIDE movie I have ever come across - Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4).

In which the second-coming of the Son of God gets a haircut, pierces his tongue and kicks (very specifically, for some reason....) lesbian vampire arse using wuxia-style martial arts and his prodigious carpentry skills, alongside his only ally - an overweight Mexican Luchador named El Santo.

Oh yes.

And the kicker? It's a musical. :smalleek:

[McStabbington]

The most WITIDE movie I have ever come across - Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4).

In which the second-coming of the Son of God gets a haircut, pierces his tongue and kicks (very specifically, for some reason....) lesbian vampire arse using wuxia-style martial arts and his prodigious carpentry skills, alongside his only ally - an overweight Mexican Luchador named El Santo.

Oh yes.

And the kicker? It's a musical. :smalleek:

Okay, what you call a "What is this I don't even" film, I call a fantastic Saturday Night. That was a great little gem of a film. On the other hand. . .



Beloved; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120603/...nm_flmg_act_11

Apparently a faithful adaptation of a Toni Morrison, award winning novel. But if you haven't read it, the blurb on the cover, doesn't begin to warn you of what is going to happen. You might even think it's a heart warming family movie.

Oy vey.

You'll never look at Oprah the same way again.


Hooooly crap, you ain't kiddin'.

I saw about the first ten minutes of it when I was about . . . I want to say eight or nine. I mentally blocked those ten minutes out until you mentioned it, which is, I think, a great working definition of a "WitIde" moment. To this day, the line "They stole my milk" is the kind of line that haunts my dreams.

[Ravian]

The most WITIDE movie I have ever come across - Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4).

In which the second-coming of the Son of God gets a haircut, pierces his tongue and kicks (very specifically, for some reason....) lesbian vampire arse using wuxia-style martial arts and his prodigious carpentry skills, alongside his only ally - an overweight Mexican Luchador named El Santo.

Oh yes.

And the kicker? It's a musical. :smalleek:

Wait this is a real movie? :smallconfused:

Watching the trailer it looks like some sort of amateur student film that lacks most of the basics of cinematography.

Maybe it's just me but I just can't see this as a legitimate that would actually make it to any format besides homemade VHS tape sold for a couple bucks at a film festival stand.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm fairly certain that Darth Sidious had several prospective apprentices, he gave them basic training and only had one "official" apprentice. I don't remember where I read that, so I'm fairly sure it is EU. Besides I think it fits right into his character to bend the rules, even one as big as the "Rule of Two"

[CarpeGuitarrem]

While the fridge may have been excessive, it's not like Indy hasn't done impossible things from the very first movie. Think of him in D&D terms: he's a lot higher level now with a lot more hit points nd a better Fortitude save.
It didn't sound outside the bounds of a pulpy feel; Indy has always been a pulp hero.

[Velaryon]

I'm guessing he tries to avoid over-planning if at all possible. If your grand plan hinges on everything following exact plans with many unknowns, you are doomed to failure. It would not surprise me if he had planned for the contingency that the TF might fail to hold Naboo. After all, what Palps needed was not Naboo to fall permanently, he just needed the TF to attack and create enough of a political ****storm for him to oust Valorum and take over. As for taking steps to prevent the Jedi getting involved, perhaps he tried and failed. IIRC, the Jedi deal directly with the Supreme Chancellor's office and at the time I don't think P had much pull there. Perhaps he actually hoped for the Jedi to get involved and be killed, turning the Jedi against the Tf (and later the Seps) from the beginning.

That's plausible. My point is simply that the Jedi getting involved is a likely enough scenario that Sidious really should not have failed to anticipate it.


I haven't read that book but I believe Palpatine decided that rules were made to be broken. He knew he was going to kill Plagueis, so just got started early with training the apprentice. No sense in wasting time training someone after his big plan is under way.

So at no point during the film that introduces this previously unknown rule of the Sith is that rule being followed? Then what was the point of including it in the film in the first place?



All of the movie Prometheus. All of the idiocy of the 'scientists' left me wondering how any of them survived that long into adulthood.

Agreed 100%. Other than having good visuals and special effects, that movie was terrible in every possible way.


I suppose it's low hanging fruit to mention the first D&D movie?

Too many WTF? moments to count...

I like to think that the actors (or at least Jeremy Irons) were testing the director to see how much cheesy and hammy acting they could get away with. Only he never caught on.



Wait this is a real movie? :smallconfused:

Watching the trailer it looks like some sort of amateur student film that lacks most of the basics of cinematography.

Maybe it's just me but I just can't see this as a legitimate that would actually make it to any format besides homemade VHS tape sold for a couple bucks at a film festival stand.

Yes, it's totally real. I used to have the DVD until I loaned it to someone and never saw them again. It was on Netflix for awhile as well.

It does look like some college student made it on a budget of $50, using his friends rather than actual actors. The movie is great in concept but extremely poor in execution. It doesn't help that the very first thing Jesus does after his introductory scene is get a complete makeover so that he no longer looks anything like the man we've all gotten used to seeing for the last 2000 years. It creates a disconnect that I think detracts from the comedic effect of the whole thing.

There are two scenes I really do enjoy though - when Jesus is attacked by a gang of atheists (who acknowledge that he's Jesus but remain atheists anyway), and later on when God appears to Jesus in a bowl of ice cream. Both of those scenes are hilarious.

[McStabbington]

The entire film is on Youtube, as is the battle between Jesus and the atheists. But yeah, that's actually part of the film's charm: they're trying to mimic chop-socky kung-fu films with a group that lacks even the basic understanding of fight choreography, or film editing, or stuntwork. The result is so bad it's hilarious, which is really interesting because most times when people try to hit that mark, they just make something terrible instead.

[hamishspence]

I'm fairly certain that Darth Sidious had several prospective apprentices, he gave them basic training and only had one "official" apprentice. I don't remember where I read that, so I'm fairly sure it is EU. Besides I think it fits right into his character to bend the rules, even one as big as the "Rule of Two"

He has a lot of Dark Side Adepts. In the EU, some of the guys in funny hats in RoTJ, are portrayed that way.

He also has Inquisitors- also dark side users. I'm told that one will appear in the Rebels cartoon series.

If any of them were ambitious enough and capable enough to take out Vader, I suspect he would have promoted that person.

[BWR]

So at no point during the film that introduces this previously unknown rule of the Sith is that rule being followed? Then what was the point of including it in the film in the first place?

If my SW lore doesn't fail me, the rule of two was introduced in the comics many years ago (Jedi vs Sith story) and it was one of the things of EU lore that Lucas brought into the prequels. The book about Darth Plagueis was written well after TPM, so it's not like Lucas or TPM is the problem here (at least in this matter). Plenty of authors have made choices about changing established canon, for better or worse, and I don't really see any point in complaining about the movies if later sources, lower down on the canon chain, either contradict or make pointless stuff in the movies. It's not like SW is a big planned story from beginning to end.

[Brother Oni]

To this day, the line "They stole my milk" is the kind of line that haunts my dreams.

You don't want to watch 'Tears of the Sun' then.


There's an extremely brutal part where the protagonists kill some soldiers in the middle of a gang bang and they discover that prior to that, the soldiers had cut off the woman's breasts so even if she did survive, she wouldn't be able to feed her baby who was still in its cot in the room

[Wraith]

Wait this is a real movie? :smallconfused:

Watching the trailer it looks like some sort of amateur student film that lacks most of the basics of cinematography.

Maybe it's just me but I just can't see this as a legitimate that would actually make it to any format besides homemade VHS tape sold for a couple bucks at a film festival stand.

That's basically it, to be honest. It's what you'd call a cult hit, in that only a small society of incredibly specific people have ever witnessed it and they tend to keep that association away from the public at large :smalltongue:

This is not an inherently bad thing! Another WITIDE movie that I saw just before JC:VH was Six String Samurai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfTWYP4bE28), which is just as mind bendingly bizarre but only in the best way!

In the late 1950's, the Cold War went hot and most of America was turned into a scorched desert, save for one city - Las Vegas. In lieu of a genuine government rising from the ashes, 'Last Vegas' became a feudal monarchy ruled by the benevolent hand of The King; Elvis Presley.

Cut forward 40 years - The King is dead, and sword-swinging guitarists come from the wasteland to claim his throne. Among them being Buddy Holly, the embodiment of Rock & Roll, who fights his way through gangs of murderous bowlers, Hip Hop migits, Stepford-Smiling cannibals, Astronauts and the Communists. By which I mean, all of the Communists.

Finally he faces off against his nemesis, the Grim Reaper of Metal (who bares an uncanny resemblance to Slash, of Guns & Roses fame) in order to save the remnants of the world from having to live under his dark rule and restore Rock & Roll as the true leader of mankind. All by way of 'The Wizard of Oz'. And it's awesome. :smallbiggrin:

On paper it's similar to JC:VH in that it was cheap to produce, was shown in something like 3 cinemas world wide when released, and I've only ever met one other person who as watched it (because I watched it with them).

"If I were you, I'd turn back!"
"If you were me, you'd be good lookin'." *snap!*

[BWR]

I've seen both of those and can join the chorus that JC:VH was bad (nearly put me to sleep) and 6SS was a lot of fun. I saw it with some friends and picked up the DVD under the name "Samurai Sword". However, 6SS did have more of a budget than JC:VH.

[hamishspence]

If my SW lore doesn't fail me, the rule of two was introduced in the comics many years ago (Jedi vs Sith story) and it was one of the things of EU lore that Lucas brought into the prequels.

The Jedi vs Sith comic was published some time after the Bane of the Sith short story (in which Bane is supposed to first formulate the Rule) and that was published some time after the TPM novelization- which tells us who came up with the Rule, and why, shortly before the TPM movie actually came out.

I think Darth Plagueis was written under heavy direction from Lucas though- it was delayed and delayed for years, possibly because of this.

[BWR]

I really should learn to check my sources all the time. :smallredface:

[hamishspence]

It should be noted that before TPM, there was a rule in the comics, set 5000-4000 years before Star Wars, that there could only be one Dark Lord of the Sith at a time.

Whenever two claimed the title, there's fighting, and one ends up beating the other and forcing the other to acknowledge them as "the one Dark Lord" (if they didn't kill the other outright).

[The_Snark]

All of the movie Prometheus. All of the idiocy of the 'scientists' left me wondering how any of them survived that long into adulthood.
I remember that by the end of that movie, I was willing to root for the main character solely because she was the only one making a token effort to keep her helmet on in the biohazard zone. (I gave the android a pass too, because he kind of wanted everyone else to die.)

For me, though, the real what-the-hell moment was realizing that the mysterious black stuff never did the same thing twice. It was basically Evil Plot Magic that the writers used as an excuse to invent a gruesome new cause-of-death for each character.

[Sith_Happens]

It should be noted that before TPM, there was a rule in the comics, set 5000-4000 years before Star Wars, that there could only be one Dark Lord of the Sith at a time.

Whenever two claimed the title, there's fighting, and one ends up beating the other and forcing the other to acknowledge them as "the one Dark Lord" (if they didn't kill the other outright).

The difference being that in that case "Dark Lord of the Sith" was a title given to the leader of the Sith, rather than signifying that you're a Sith at all.

[Kalrany]

The most WITIDE movie I have ever come across - Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4).

In which the second-coming of the Son of God gets a haircut, pierces his tongue and kicks (very specifically, for some reason....) lesbian vampire arse using wuxia-style martial arts and his prodigious carpentry skills, alongside his only ally - an overweight Mexican Luchador named El Santo.

Oh yes.

And the kicker? It's a musical. :smalleek:

Please tell me this is available in some form of media other than YouTube. I have someone who NEEDS this as a present. (Muuahahahaha….)


...This is not an inherently bad thing! Another WITIDE movie that I saw just before JC:VH was Six String Samurai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfTWYP4bE28), which is just as mind bendingly bizarre but only in the best way!
...

See above comment. Please.... :)


I remember that by the end of that movie, I was willing to root for the main character solely because she was the only one making a token effort to keep her helmet on in the biohazard zone. (I gave the android a pass too, because he kind of wanted everyone else to die.)

For me, though, the real what-the-hell moment was realizing that the mysterious black stuff never did the same thing twice. It was basically Evil Plot Magic that the writers used as an excuse to invent a gruesome new cause-of-death for each character.

I was told to skip it. For that (the first point) reason.

More of a facepalm moment, I guess, but in the movie Blade when they use EDTA to cause the Vamps to explode. I was cocking my head already, but they try to say it’s due to the anticoagulation properties…. Ummm, what? (Yes, this may be a bit more esoteric but still hit that “whaaaat?!?!?” mark for me.)

Please, no, stop. I have those moments whenever Hollywood attempts to use anything beyond 3rd grade science. They get it so wrong my teeth hurt. Give me something fake that I can’t have any idea on how it works in the real world and I can suspend my disbelief easier. (A matter of can’t erase when is not there.)

Oh, and I have to agree on the From Dusk ‘Till Dawn... it seemed like two movies that somehow were edited together for no reason. (I saw that one with the person who I think ought to see the first two movies from the above quoted posts…) Just... weird.

[Sith_Happens]

in the movie Blade when they use EDTA to cause the Vamps to explode.

...

...

CHEMISTRY MAJOR SMASH!

[hamishspence]

The difference being that in that case "Dark Lord of the Sith" was a title given to the leader of the Sith, rather than signifying that you're a Sith at all.

True. Even after the Sith became an organization rather than a species, it would be fair to call Ulic Qel-Droma a Sith, along with the other minions, and his master Exar Kun "The Dark Lord of the Sith".

That said, after him, there were plenty of self-proclaimed "Dark Lords of the Sith".

And it turns out from The Old Republic, that there was a Sith Emperor at the same time as Exar Kun, on the far side of the galaxy, with a great many "Dark Lords of the Sith" underneath him in rank.

And a "Lost Tribe of the Sith" on Kesh, from the Lost Tribe of the Sith books and comic, whose leaders all called themselves Dark Lords.

[Wardog]

I LOVE the Bayformers for one thing: No stupid mass-changing. That alone makes them superior. Megatron in the comics changing from a hugeass robot with an arm cannon to a handgun? It broke my suspension of disbelief as a 12year old.

That some specific Transformers have size/mass changing as a special power doesn't bother me too much. (It's a children's cartoon, not hard SF).

Its all the other size inconsistencies that break suspension of disbelief for me. E.g. petty much every interaction between Unicron and something else. (Especially where Grimlock is large enough to kick his butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BtGdfulu5KI#t=355), but the spaceship Grimlock travelled on is small enough to fit through Unicron's eye).

****

On the subject of Starwars:

I'm not sure the (mere) million Clone Troopers is necessarily such a serious issue. The original (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_trooper)storm troopers were fast-mooving assault troops, which seems to be the role of both SW Storm Troopers and the Clones. They are intended for attacking and capturing (or destroying) important targets, not holding territory. You use them for assaulting rebel headquaters, taking on inferior droid armies, and killing Jedi. (Also, 1,000,000 men for the whole galaxy makes them comparable in numbers to Astartes, although they are obviously not that good individually).

On the subjects of droids, I do agree that there is a lot of inconsistency within the films about the treatment of droids. In the original trilogy, droids are clearly not "just furniture". C3PO and R2D2 are presented as people (and are pretty close to the "everyman" role). They have personalities, care about other people (and themselves) and show emotions. While lots of people don't care about droids, no-one acts as though Luke or Ben are being particularly weird when they do. The attitude of the bartender in the canteena isn't "You can't bring your horse/motorbike into the bar" it's "We don't serve slaves".

[Wraith]

I remember that by the end of that movie, I was willing to root for the main character solely because she was the only one making a token effort to keep her helmet on in the biohazard zone. (I gave the android a pass too, because he kind of wanted everyone else to die.)

To my mind, she was first on the list who deserved to get splattered across the scenery. Just her sheer, bone-headed naivety about the Space Jockeys alone drove me up the wall, not to mention her sprinting about and combat rolling through the ship after having her uterus stapled shut by a robot that thought she was a man. :smallsigh:

And don't get me started on all that "I choose to believe" nonsense...? What the heck kind of scientist are you? :smallfurious:


Please tell me this is available in some form of media other than YouTube. I have someone who NEEDS this as a present. (Muuahahahaha….)

I have them both on DVD. They're a bit obscure, but not so much that a combination of eBay and/or Amazon shouldn't be able to solve. :smallsmile:

[BWR]

not to mention her sprinting about and combat rolling through the ship after having her uterus stapled shut by a robot that thought she was a man. :smallsigh:


I just have to remind myself: "There's FTL travel and inconsistent polymorphing liquids: magic staples aren't the biggest problem here".

[hamishspence]

On the subject of Starwars:

I'm not sure the (mere) million Clone Troopers is necessarily such a serious issue. The original (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_trooper)storm troopers were fast-mooving assault troops, which seems to be the role of both SW Storm Troopers and the Clones. They are intended for attacking and capturing (or destroying) important targets, not holding territory. You use them for assaulting rebel headquaters, taking on inferior droid armies, and killing Jedi. (Also, 1,000,000 men for the whole galaxy makes them comparable in numbers to Astartes, although they are obviously not that good individually).

On the subjects of droids, I do agree that there is a lot of inconsistency within the films about the treatment of droids. In the original trilogy, droids are clearly not "just furniture". C3PO and R2D2 are presented as people (and are pretty close to the "everyman" role). They have personalities, care about other people (and themselves) and show emotions. While lots of people don't care about droids, no-one acts as though Luke or Ben are being particularly weird when they do. The attitude of the bartender in the canteena isn't "You can't bring your horse/motorbike into the bar" it's "We don't serve slaves".
I tend to agree vis-a-vis The Clones. In any case, The Essential Guide to Warfare tells us that the 1.2 million (and shortly afterward, 3 million) clone numbers, only apply near the start of the war- by the end there were a lot more.

I also think that Obi-Wan's "if droids could think, there'd be none of us here" in the prequels is a bit at odds with the way he talks to Artoo in ANH :

"Hello, my little friend. Come here. Don't be afraid."

[The_Snark]

To my mind, she was first on the list who deserved to get splattered across the scenery. Just her sheer, bone-headed naivety about the Space Jockeys alone drove me up the wall, not to mention her sprinting about and combat rolling through the ship after having her uterus stapled shut by a robot that thought she was a man. :smallsigh:

And don't get me started on all that "I choose to believe" nonsense...? What the heck kind of scientist are you? :smallfurious:

Yeah, but by this point in the movie I was pretty desperate. She had some dumb moments, but at one point she did suggest leaving the planet, as opposed to going back into the Evil Alien Place that keeps killing people. Then everyone else ignores her, and she goes along with it, but... it was a flicker of basic common sense.

It's not that I liked her, exactly, just that the film had worn down my standards until I was grasping at straws.

[Killer Angel]

OK, Pacific Rim was too damn funny to really criticize it, but...
"Gypsy Danger is analog"?!? :smalltongue:

Really, no circuits and computers? those fancy digital displays and neural interfaces how work, exactly?

[Shadow of the Sun]

I tend to agree vis-a-vis The Clones. In any case, The Essential Guide to Warfare tells us that the 1.2 million (and shortly afterward, 3 million) clone numbers, only apply near the start of the war- by the end there were a lot more.

I also think that Obi-Wan's "if droids could think, there'd be none of us here" in the prequels is a bit at odds with the way he talks to Artoo in ANH :

"Hello, my little friend. Come here. Don't be afraid."

What do you think changed his mind, perhaps?

[hamishspence]

That I'm not sure. It could have been that during the Clone Wars he learned the hard way that droids really can think- some not well, but some very well indeed- and applied the logic to Artoo.

[JustSomeGuy]

(Especially where Grimlock is large enough to kick his butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BtGdfulu5KI#t=355), but the spaceship Grimlock travelled on is small enough to fit through Unicron's eye).


Didn't you get it? The whole film was a study of a giant space robot's self-consciousness about his narrow butt, and how he goes on planetary eating binges and starts hanging around with the wrong sorts in some sort of self-esteem drama. There's also an ongoing subplot about a cocky youngster who repeatedly interferes in the important work of his boss, doesn't listen to advice from his elders, and steals/breaks a really important community piece, in a reimagining of Bart Simpson and his wrecking of the Jebediah statue head. Also, the community he shatters is represented here by Unicron's body, which is also the physical focus of the main storyline - it's a confusing and difficult-to-follow affair, granted!

[Legato Endless]

OK, Pacific Rim was too damn funny to really criticize it, but...
"Gypsy Danger is analog"?!? :smalltongue:

Really, no circuits and computers? those fancy digital displays and neural interfaces how work, exactly?

Electrical signals work differently in the world of Pacific Rim. That's why a multi billion dollar project couldn't afford emp shielding.

[Telonius]

That some specific Transformers have size/mass changing as a special power doesn't bother me too much. (It's a children's cartoon, not hard SF).

Its all the other size inconsistencies that break suspension of disbelief for me. E.g. petty much every interaction between Unicron and something else. (Especially where Grimlock is large enough to kick his butt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BtGdfulu5KI#t=355), but the spaceship Grimlock travelled on is small enough to fit through Unicron's eye).


This one deserves a Skeletor Affirmation.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ebc83bad7f21c741ae379024e9e2a967/tumblr_mlnrvjhzqM1s46h7vo1_500.jpg

[Grif]

OK, Pacific Rim was too damn funny to really criticize it, but...
"Gypsy Danger is analog"?!? :smalltongue:

Really, no circuits and computers? those fancy digital displays and neural interfaces how work, exactly?

Of all the absurd moments in Pacific Rim, this one definitely takes the prize. Seriously. Analogue? :smallconfused: (Let's not go into how they think nuclear reactors work.)

[Legato Endless]

Of all the absurd moments in Pacific Rim, this one definitely takes the prize. Seriously. Analogue? :smallconfused: (Let's not go into how they think nuclear reactors work.)

That scene would have worked so well if they had just inserted some technobabble. It's is so bizarre because their reasoning doesn't even fall into common misconceptions.

[Wardog]

This one deserves a Skeletor Affirmation.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ebc83bad7f21c741ae379024e9e2a967/tumblr_mlnrvjhzqM1s46h7vo1_500.jpg

I literally LOLed at that.

And I can't work our what is more absurd:
- The size difference?
- How badly drawn He-Man's body is?
- Or that He-Man is screwing up his face as though Skeletor smells really bad.

[Bhu]

The entire trailer to Gothic Lolita Battle Bear inspires this reaction, but then again it is directed by Noboru Iguchi...

[Sith_Happens]

The entire trailer to Gothic Lolita Battle Bear inspires this reaction, but then again it is directed by Noboru Iguchi...

The title "Gothic Lolita Battle Bear" inspires that reaction.:smallconfused:

[Keldrin]

I remember that by the end of that movie, I was willing to root for the main character solely because she was the only one making a token effort to keep her helmet on in the biohazard zone. (I gave the android a pass too, because he kind of wanted everyone else to die.)

For me, though, the real what-the-hell moment was realizing that the mysterious black stuff never did the same thing twice. It was basically Evil Plot Magic that the writers used as an excuse to invent a gruesome new cause-of-death for each character.

I especially liked the part where the geographers, who mapped the ship with their cool flying laser balls... got LOST. ::eyetwitch::

That may be the very bestest example of the title of this thread.

[Brewdude]

Mr Plinkett's Star Wars Reviews on Red Letter Media are the definitive critiques, done in excruciating detail, of the prequels.

Get ready for 4.5 hours plus of exactly why and how the prequels sucked. (http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/)

[the_druid_droid]

The title "Gothic Lolita Battle Bear" inspires that reaction.:smallconfused:

See, I read that and think "Tibbers".

*shrug*

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The entire trailer to Gothic Lolita Battle Bear inspires this reaction, but then again it is directed by Noboru Iguchi...
I looked it up.

That was amazing.

[hamishspence]

Mr Plinkett's Star Wars Reviews on Red Letter Media are the definitive critiques, done in excruciating detail, of the prequels.

Aren't those extremely NSFW, and therefore not appropriate here?

[Brother Oni]

See, I read that and think "Tibbers".

That would make Annie the Gothic Lolita and given the negative connotations of Lolita and lolicon material in general... yeah.

[Bhu]

This is lolita as in frilly white alice in wonderland dresses (i.e. it refers to a fashion style). It just has superheroes, sentient teddy bears and zombies too.



Another good wth film is an old Indonesian movie called The Devil's Sword. It has a shapeshifting crocodile princess, croc-man zombies, demons, a witch who beheads people with a straw rope, and just about everyone knows some form of butt whoopin.' It also has an evil Fighter who travels by kicking boulders into the air and then leaping on top of them to ride them.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This is lolita as in frilly white alice in wonderland dresses (i.e. it refers to a fashion style). It just has superheroes, sentient teddy bears and zombies too.

And, well, this is Annie's default look, so... (http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33500000/Annie-Original-Skin-2013-league-of-legends-33515671-1215-717.jpg)

[VanBuren]

Aren't those extremely NSFW, and therefore not appropriate here?

I found them extremely overrated, so I'd argue that they're not really appropriate anywhere, but mileage may vary I suppose.

[BWR]

I found them extremely overrated, so I'd argue that they're not really appropriate anywhere, but mileage may vary I suppose.

You and me both.

[Brewdude]

Aren't those extremely NSFW, and therefore not appropriate here?

In a word, No. Well, no more than wasting time on this site is.

Not sure why anyone would find them overrated. They pretty much go over each exacting detail of what was wrong with the movies. So much so that watching people debate what went wrong with them will make you want to just point them to those reviews and say, "please point out something new that these reviews didn't cover, otherwise you are just rehashing old news".

[The_Snark]

Speaking as someone who watched the first one-and-a-half reviews before giving up? He's pretty longwinded. He's not very good at keeping the critique fast or interesting (speaking in a slow monotone is not a good way to hold people's attention). The humor often feels vaguely mean-spirited, tasteless, or both, although I suppose this last point is pretty subjective. It's not that there are no valid criticisms in the reviews; he makes some interesting points. But he takes such a long time to make them, far longer than he needed to. Yeah, the whole point is to go over the movies in exhaustive detail, but... more emphasis on detail, less on exhaustive. There's a surreal kind of irony in how he puts so much thought and effort into analyzing what Lucas did wrong, only to drop the ball when presenting his own material.

I eventually realized I'd rather re-watch the prequels than finish sitting through the reviews. The romance scenes in Episode II may be cringe-inducing, but no more so than the Plinkett character's digressions about his dysfunctional family or serial kidnapping habits.

In fact, that last bit probably qualifies those reviews for this thread. What was up with that?

[Legato Endless]

Speaking as someone who watched the first one-and-a-half reviews before giving up? He's pretty longwinded. He's not very good at keeping the critique fast or interesting (speaking in a slow monotone is not a good way to hold people's attention). The humor often feels vaguely mean-spirited, tasteless, or both, although I suppose this last point is pretty subjective. It's not that there are no valid criticisms in the reviews; he makes some interesting points. But he takes such a long time to make them, far longer than he needed to. Yeah, the whole point is to go over the movies in exhaustive detail, but... more emphasis on detail, less on exhaustive.
The romance scenes in Episode II may be cringe-inducing, but no more so than the Plinkett character's digressions about his dysfunctional family or serial kidnapping habits.

Pretty much. He's got some valid points, but I can't say I particularly appreciate my film deconstructions peppered with rape jokes. A faster clipped style, something in the line of Yahtzee or CGP Grey would work much better. I realize some people felt this was a great way to break out of the arm chair review critic mode…but you're dissecting pop culture. There isn't much of a battlefield to legitimize yourself in.

[Bhu]

http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/megafoot/

I suppose I should've seen this film coming...

[Sith_Happens]

Just finished watching the Doom movie. It was a perfectly average by-the-numbers action/monster movie... And then suddenly they do a minutes-long sequence in first-person.

WAT.

I get that it's a nod to the games, but... No, just no.

[Brother Oni]

Just finished watching the Doom movie. It was a perfectly average by-the-numbers action/monster movie... And then suddenly they do a minutes-long sequence in first-person.

WAT.

I get that it's a nod to the games, but... No, just no.

That was one of the best parts of the movie! :smallamused:

[Sith_Happens]

That was one of the best parts of the movie! :smallamused:

It was one of the best parts of Kick-Ass. It was just corny in Doom.

[Legato Endless]

It was one of the best parts of Kick-Ass. It was just corny in Doom.

My memory of that whole sequence is utterly tainted by the fact that when it started up, someone in the theater pulled out a 360 controller and started "playing" the sequence.

[Killer Angel]

It just came to my mind another one.

The Walking Dead, 3rd season:
In the last episode, when the governor Attacks the prison and then the assault is repelled... and Carl kills cold-blooded a young Woodbury fugitive that was going to surrender.
Later, the boy explained his reasons, but in that moment... WTF?! :smalleek:

[Mono Vertigo]

It just came to my mind another one.

The Walking Dead, 3rd season:
In the last episode, when the governor Attacks the prison and then the assault is repelled... and Carl kills cold-blooded a young Woodbury fugitive that was going to surrender.
Later, the boy explained his reasons, but in that moment... WTF?! :smalleek:
In the same vein, I'd like to nominate a Game of Thrones classic, that gets a much stronger reaction if you were not warned about the author's reputation.
Joffrey ordering Ned Stark's decapitation.
Honestly though, the WITIDE must have been much bigger in-universe. It's very comforting and entertaining to learn that everybody else not only thought it was a stupid idea, but also didn't expect that twist. :smallamused:

[ydoccian]

I apologize if I'm necro-threading this, I just wanted to clarify the Darth Sidious / Darth Maul relationship. In the book Darth Plageus, Darth Maul is given to Sidious by Maul's mom. Sidious trains him, but informs Plageus that Maul will never be a Sith Lord. He wasn't involved in the Rule of two, he was a tool for Sidious to accomplish various murderous ends.

[hamishspence]

I apologize if I'm necro-threading this, I just wanted to clarify the Darth Sidious / Darth Maul relationship.I think it may have been less than 6 weeks.

While Sidious tells Plagueis that, a case could be made that Maul (especially as depicted in TCW) was far more than just a tool.

The upcoming Darth Maul: Lockdown book will show Maul being used by both Plagueis & Sidious- and some of the tensions between the two.

[ydoccian]

I think it may have been less than 6 weeks.

While Sidious tells Plagueis that, a case could be made that Maul (especially as depicted in TCW) was far more than just a tool.

The upcoming Darth Maul: Lockdown book will show Maul being used by both Plagueis & Sidious- and some of the tensions between the two.

Ah, okay. 6 weeks is the limit. Truthfully, this is my first (well, second) time posting something on here. I'm normally just a reader of forums, but I enjoyed the Darth Plagueis book. I have the book, but haven't read it in a while. Awesome that they are coming out with a new one. Between Bane and Plagueis, I love those two Dark Overlords :smallbiggrin:

[Socratov]

I literally used the phrase "What is this, I don't even... ... Wat." when seeing Iron Sky. That movie just completely, efficiently and utterly broke my suspension of disbelief so hard it was sitting in a corner wimpering and crying...

[BWR]

Oh come on! Iron Sky was awesome!

[Grif]

That was one of the best parts of the movie! :smallamused:

Hell yeah. That was definitely the best part. It made the first bad sixty minutes almost worth it. Almost.

[Socratov]

Oh come on! Iron Sky was awesome!

while it was awesome, it still wrecked my brain.

another WITIDE bomb is hte Twilight Franchise (I did watch them all) and the amount of stupidity displayed by a teenage girl. 90% of everything she does is so stupid that your suspense of disbelief just goes "You know what, screw this ****. I'm out. Call me when you are done watching this bovine biological processed output. Cheerio!"

[hamishspence]

Ah, okay. 6 weeks is the limit. Truthfully, this is my first (well, second) time posting something on here. I'm normally just a reader of forums, but I enjoyed the Darth Plagueis book. I have the book, but haven't read it in a while. Awesome that they are coming out with a new one. Between Bane and Plagueis, I love those two Dark Overlords :smallbiggrin:
Welcome to posting- it's fun but addictive :smallbiggrin:

Seconded on Plagueis & Bane novels (though the Jedi vs Sith comic Bane, while having slightly different lines, is good too).

[Killer Angel]

I literally used the phrase "What is this, I don't even... ... Wat." when seeing Iron Sky. That movie just completely, efficiently and utterly broke my suspension of disbelief so hard it was sitting in a corner wimpering and crying...

Well, the mere concept of the movie, is "WTF?" :smalltongue:

[Socratov]

Well, the mere concept of the movie, is "WTF?" :smalltongue:

you should have seen my face when my roommate suggested we'd see it. I was told it was priceless.

[Mono Vertigo]

Well, the mere concept of the movie, is "WTF?" :smalltongue:

Yeah. This movie doesn't care about plausibility and realism. It's about Moon Nazis who decide to invade Earth. It's a B movie with decent special effects. People who watch it are somewhat disqualified from declaring it as mind-boggling, because that's pretty much what you have to expect when you decide to watch it. Like the watchers of FLCL or Rubber, I suppose, only a bit less so. :smalltongue:


Now though I do remember a bizarre moment in a Coen brothers movie (yes, I know), A Serious Man. The opening sequence before the actual movie starts, about a Jewish couple arguing over whether the friend coming to visit is alive and human or dead and possessed by some demon; the wife eventually kills the guest. Nobody, though, not even the watchers, can tell who was right, and what was the right thing to do.
Nothing about the characters or their ordeal, beside that they were Jewish, has anything to do with the rest of the movie. It's not even taking place in the same century.
(This being the Coen brothers, the best I can come up with is that it was a preemptive statement about the story that was about to follow. "You see these people struggling to find out what's the right thing to do, and never receiving a single hint? See how absurd life can be? Well, here's two more hours of that. And you're not going to get any answer or satisfying conclusion at the end of that second story, either. Enjoy!")

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh I got one.

2012.
The entire movie, every single minute of it.

It must be the most expensive comedy ever made, since it is obvious you are meant to laugh out loud at every scene in the film.

[Wookieetank]

Oh I got one.

2012.
The entire movie, every single minute of it.

It must be the most expensive comedy ever made, since it is obvious you are meant to laugh out loud at every scene in the film.

Knowing it was made by the ID4 and Day After Tomorrow people I went into it expecting explosions and cheese. And thats pretty much what I got, so I'm okay with that.:smallsmile:

[Avilan the Grey]

Knowing it was made by the ID4 and Day After Tomorrow people I went into it expecting explosions and cheese. And thats pretty much what I got, so I'm okay with that.:smallsmile:

Yes, but the LEVEL of it... It honestly makes Day After Tomorrow look like An Inconvenient Truth.

[Wookieetank]

Yes, but the LEVEL of it... It honestly makes Day After Tomorrow look like An Inconvenient Truth.

I have pretty low expectations for my guilty pleasure movie genres (disater movies and giant robots), lets me enjoy more of them than if I held them to the same standard as other movies I watch. I'm one of the few people I know who has actually enjoyed all of the Bayformers movies, but then I went into all of them expecting: transformers (check), and transformers beating each other up (check again). *shrugs*

[Wardog]

This is probably quite minor compared to some of the things mentnioned (although thinking about it, pretty similar in effect to my OP):

I was watching Red Sonja last night. Now of course, that's got lots of silly cheese in it, but there was one thing that really didn't make sense:

1) Red Sonja encounters Prince Littlebrat and rescues him from falling in the boiling mud.

2) Sonja ask the Prince and his servent the best way to get to Queen Gedron's base, and is told the shortest/quickest way is through the toll gate.

3) Sonja takes the toll route (fighting and killing the gate controler in the process).

4) Sonja encounters (and rescues) Prince Littlebrat, who has somehow managed to get ahead of her (and had time to get captured by bandits as well).

:smallconfused:

[Socratov]

I forgot if it was mentioned already, but Suckerpunch (I only just watched it) really turns the WTF dial up to eleven. I am seriously curious what Zack Snyder was smoking when he made this because nobody can make this kind of monstrosity while sober.

The music is good though...

[Avilan the Grey]

I forgot if it was mentioned already, but Suckerpunch (I only just watched it) really turns the WTF dial up to eleven. I am seriously curious what Zack Snyder was smoking when he made this because nobody can make this kind of monstrosity while sober.

The music is good though...

It's actually quite sad an deep. I don't like it because of it, but it all is "WTF" on purpose because it's all symbolic / dream sequences.

[Starbuck_II]

All of the movie Prometheus. All of the idiocy of the 'scientists' left me wondering how any of them survived that long into adulthood.

The one scientist that decides to pet the snake-like creature who is clearly in a threatening stance: what the hell?

He deserved the Darwin Award.

[Socratov]

It's actually quite sad an deep. I don't like it because of it, but it all is "WTF" on purpose because it's all symbolic / dream sequences.

Well, that's the thing, I get the fact that they are metaphors, but that just makes is even more wtf. Because how much of it is parody, and how much of it is gratuitous? Considering Moviebob's thoughts on the matter the wtf dial only turns further towards 9000. what follows is a conflict of thoughts: clever or not, misogynist, or secretly misandrist, empowering or patriarchal? For these questions (and more) arguments for both sides exist. And then we don't even get into ethics: is a a good thing to show in a pg-13 movie the message that if you objectify yourself you can get anything you dream of? I enjoy gratuitous nakedness as much as any other guy, but I really thought this was wrong on so many levels, and yet right on so many more. It's like for every good thing int he movie a bad one exists and vice versa, but without the real ability to even it out and take the mean saying it meets in the middle. And then even if it is on purpose, it's still WTF. Dialed up to 11/12/13. Over 9000. Take your pick. I literally spent the whole movie wondering "What is this... I don't even... Whaaaat?".

[lunar2]

honestly? the helicopter scene and the flying kaiju in pacific rim. i get that it's a giant robot/kaiju movie. i can handle that. i can even handle if one of the kaiju flies. but there is no way those helicopters or that kaiju is picking up a 2,000 ton robot and flying away with it!

[BWR]

Eh, physics is already crying in a corner after unspeakable violations; the helicopters are just a little extra bruising.

[Bhu]

Yeah. This movie doesn't care about plausibility and realism. It's about Moon Nazis who decide to invade Earth. It's a B movie with decent special effects. People who watch it are somewhat disqualified from declaring it as mind-boggling, because that's pretty much what you have to expect when you decide to watch it. Like the watchers of FLCL or Rubber, I suppose, only a bit less so. :smalltongue:


Now though I do remember a bizarre moment in a Coen brothers movie (yes, I know), A Serious Man. The opening sequence before the actual movie starts, about a Jewish couple arguing over whether the friend coming to visit is alive and human or dead and possessed by some demon; the wife eventually kills the guest. Nobody, though, not even the watchers, can tell who was right, and what was the right thing to do.
Nothing about the characters or their ordeal, beside that they were Jewish, has anything to do with the rest of the movie. It's not even taking place in the same century.
(This being the Coen brothers, the best I can come up with is that it was a preemptive statement about the story that was about to follow. "You see these people struggling to find out what's the right thing to do, and never receiving a single hint? See how absurd life can be? Well, here's two more hours of that. And you're not going to get any answer or satisfying conclusion at the end of that second story, either. Enjoy!")

You'll notice the teachers focus on Schrodingers cat and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, and the films re-telling of Job. They are not unrelated.

[Rodin]

The one that comes to mind for me is from Sharknado. Now, granted, you aren't supposed to take this film seriously, and even though it's played completely straight I'm certain the writers knew exactly what they were doing.

Even so, there's one scene that stands out...

They have gone to get the protagonist's (I've forgotten his name he was so unmemorable, so I'll just call him Bob) family. They drive up to the top of a hill and while the water level is clearly rising, there's no sign of any raised water levels around the house. They park their car and it's just standard downpour puddles.

After a too-long scene of nobody getting eaten by sharks, a shark finally comes flying in through the window to get redshirt #1869. Flying sharks are kinda the premise of the movie, so great!

Then it gets weird. The entire bottom floor of the house instantly floods with water to 3-4 foot deep levels. Where this water came from is never explained...it's just kind of there. Maybe the shark brought it?

Cue extended shark battle.

The (surviving) protagonists then run out the door to the car...which is still standing in exactly the same amount of water as it was when they went into the house. Their house filled with phantom water from NOWHERE. Not only has the jeep failed to be flooded by the water that flooded their house, but the roads are clear enough for them to happily drive away.

Then the house, which by now has completely filled with phantom water from voodoo sharks, explodes from the water pressure.

That scene warped my brain so hard that the infamous "chainsaw shark" scene later in the movie actually made perfect sense.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I once came upon a movie on Netflix called Nazi's at the center of the earth.

It was a decent Schlockfest of a movie with...robot nazi zombies made by flaying the skin off people, right up until it is revealed that the Nazi scientists have a plan to revive the brain of Hitler.

The specifics of this plan, made me feel dirty for even remotely hearing this plan in any way shape or form, and I won't go into the details.

The Climax of the movie involves, the Hitler head, in a Futurama style headjar, attached to a robot body that reminded me a great deal of The Clockwork King from City of heroes..in a UFO, flown by Robot Nazi Zombies.

[GolemsVoice]

The one that comes to mind for me is from Sharknado. Now, granted, you aren't supposed to take this film seriously, and even though it's played completely straight I'm certain the writers knew exactly what they were doing.

Even so, there's one scene that stands out...

They have gone to get the protagonist's (I've forgotten his name he was so unmemorable, so I'll just call him Bob) family. They drive up to the top of a hill and while the water level is clearly rising, there's no sign of any raised water levels around the house. They park their car and it's just standard downpour puddles.

After a too-long scene of nobody getting eaten by sharks, a shark finally comes flying in through the window to get redshirt #1869. Flying sharks are kinda the premise of the movie, so great!

Then it gets weird. The entire bottom floor of the house instantly floods with water to 3-4 foot deep levels. Where this water came from is never explained...it's just kind of there. Maybe the shark brought it?

Cue extended shark battle.

The (surviving) protagonists then run out the door to the car...which is still standing in exactly the same amount of water as it was when they went into the house. Their house filled with phantom water from NOWHERE. Not only has the jeep failed to be flooded by the water that flooded their house, but the roads are clear enough for them to happily drive away.

Then the house, which by now has completely filled with phantom water from voodoo sharks, explodes from the water pressure.

That scene warped my brain so hard that the infamous "chainsaw shark" scene later in the movie actually made perfect sense.

Every sentence of this is AWESOME.

[Kalrany]

Wow. This thread makes my brain hurt... in the most hillarious way...

[Pronounceable]

The existence of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4) is the biggest WTF. The fact that someone made it is WTFer than anything that actually happens in it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Then it gets weird. The entire bottom floor of the house instantly floods with water to 3-4 foot deep levels. Where this water came from is never explained...it's just kind of there. Maybe the shark brought it?

Actually this little bit almost makes sense. The house is built right by a storm drain, and the drain is flooding rapidly. Basically it gets overflowed, and the exess water is taking the quickest way downhill, which is through the house.

However the fact that Whatshername's Whatshisname boyfriend gets eaten in 10 seconds is hillarious, and an easy (and lazy) way to make it possible to reconsile the main character's romantic relationship... :smallbiggrin:

Oh, two more!!

Birddemic! But I am not sure if it really counts since it is actually an amateur project to begin with.

Better then
The Apple. A Musical about the bible set in a dystropean future! It's AMAZING!!!

[Wookieetank]

Saw Re-Animator yesterday for the first time. While being a quite enjoyable B-Movie romp (to the point where I'm trying to track down its sequals), there's a bit near the end of the movie in a morge invovling a damsel in distress and a disembodied head and yeah, just yeah :smalleek:. Do plan on watching it again at some point though.

[endplanets]

Inception
In Inception Leo tells the girl to tell HIM if there is a shortcut into the winter base. She tell him and he then tells her to tell the group. Naturally the wife finds out and messes up the mission.
This baffled me since Leo doesn't do anything with the information and he knew he wasn't going to use the information in any way. He almost ruined the mission for no reason.


Prometheus, its just so easy.
How did the two idiots get lost in the cave?
How are the White Men 100% human and yet they can breath the planet's air?
Is Jesus really just one of the White Men? Really?
How the **** does scrappy cave drawings by illiterate monkeys give you incredibly complex map coordinates?
When the alien ship was rolling towards them why didn't they just step out of the way? God damn.

[Sith_Happens]

When the alien ship was rolling towards them why didn't they just step out of the way? God damn.

Sadly, this one's a thing that actually happens. Definitely one of the less productive mammalian instincts.