Anyone tried Focus and Foible stat generation?

[Alex12]

Just what the title says, has anyone tried the Focus and Foible method for generating stats?
Each character picks a Focus stat, which is 18, and a Foible stat, which is 8. The other stats are 1d10+7 each, rolled in order.
I read about it a while ago, and I thought it seemed interesting, but I wanted to get the Playground's thoughts.
Good idea? Bad idea?

[JaronK]

It seems like it would buff SAD classes like the Wizard and hurt MAD classes like the Monk.

As such, it sounds like a terrible idea. Also, why are the other stats 8-17? If the idea is one 18 and one 8, 1d10+7 doesn't work.

JaronK

[ImaDeadMan]

It seems like it would buff SAD classes like the Wizard and hurt MAD classes like the Monk.

As such, it sounds like a terrible idea. Also, why are the other stats 8-17? If the idea is one 18 and one 8, 1d10+7 doesn't work.

JaronK

I agree here. It definitely hurts the more MAD classes and if the point is to have one great stat and one bad stat then the rest should be in the middle like a 1d8+9. Do this, and it becomes more viable.

A stat generation technique that my friends and I use is the traditional roll 4d6 and combine the result of the best 3 rolls and repeat for each stat. Then we mix in the point buy system to create a stat block more reasonable for the characters. For example, if a character has:
Str - 18
Dex - 16
Con - 12
Int - 12
Wis - 14
Cha - 10
then we would allow point buy to move the stats to fit the character better, such as moving some points from strength into con for some more health per level.

[Angelalex242]

Actually, I kinda want to try the 'everyone gets 18s across the board' idea sometime (modified by race only).

The MAD classes (most of which are low teir) rejoice and are glad and jump for joy. SAD classes mostly shrug and write down more hp and higher saves.

[ImaDeadMan]

Actually, I kinda want to try the 'everyone gets 18s across the board' idea sometime (modified by race only).

The MAD classes (most of which are low teir) rejoice and are glad and jump for joy. SAD classes mostly shrug and write down more hp and higher saves.

That would actually be fantastic and a lot of lower tier classes would see a lot more play

[gr8artist]

Conversely, why not just use 10's across the board. Be more realistic and on par with the game mechanics. Or hell, use an NPC stat array like 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.

Anyway, regarding Focus and Foible, I've been debating a somewhat similar method. Players choose their ability score values in pairs.
18/8, 17/9, 16/10, 15/11, 14/12, 13/13... or something like that. They pick out three pairs, giving them 6 values total, and assign them as they see fit. A wizard would go 18/8, 14/12, 14/12 and a monk would go 18/8, 16/10, 16/10.
A better balanced system might be 18/7, 16/8, 15/9, 14/10, 13/11, 12/12.

[lsfreak]

Conversely, why not just use 10's across the board. Be more realistic and on par with the game mechanics.

The big reason there is that, while melee suck pretty bad, spellcasters don't function. You have to have a stat of 10+spell level to cast a spell. It also isn't particularly realistic; while an average stat is 10, an average person doesn't have an average stat in every score. In fact, unless I've completely screwed something up, the chances of six 10's in a row is less than one in a quarter-million (assuming 3d6). If you're just after a mod of +0 for every score it's a bit better at about 1:4000, which still means there's around 20 times the people a +4 in one score, than there are people with a +0 in every score.

[Akal Saris]

I've used Focus and Foible stat gen for a character in 'Way of the Wicked.' It worked out fine for me playing a strength-based rogue: I came out of it with nearly the same stats as if I had pre-generated at 20 PB (PF), except that my Int was 11 instead of a 9 or something small like that.

It adds a small element of randomness but guarantees a playable character, even if spellcasters come out a bit ahead.

[Angelalex242]

The other reason to use all 18s is: "We're calling forth the greatest heroes of the realm to save the world!" Not: "We're calling forth the most average people we can find to save the world."

[Deophaun]

The other reason to use all 18s is: "We're calling forth the greatest heroes of the realm to save the world!" Not: "We're calling forth the most average people we can find to save the world."
The League of Extraordinarily Mediocre Gentlemen

[bekeleven]

The big reason there is that, while melee suck pretty bad, spellcasters don't function. You have to have a stat of 10+spell level to cast a spell.Assuming that you use a class with +2 to your casting stat, you're fine. Racial buff gets you spells until level 4/5, by which point you have +1 from levels. That brings you to 6/7, and god help you if you haven't grabbed a +2 enhancement bonus by then.

[Story]

The big reason there is that, while melee suck pretty bad, spellcasters don't function. You have to have a stat of 10+spell level to cast a spell. It also isn't particularly realistic; while an average stat is 10, an average person doesn't have an average stat in every score. In fact, unless I've completely screwed something up, the chances of six 10's in a row is less than one in a quarter-million (assuming 3d6). If you're just after a mod of +0 for every score it's a bit better at about 1:4000, which still means there's around 20 times the people a +4 in one score, than there are people with a +0 in every score.

If you start with a +2 race, then level up bonuses and items are enough to (barely) keep up with the minimum casting stat. And a Wizard with crap save DCs and no bonus spells is still a tier 1, just a weaker one that will have trouble surviving low levels (though really, everything should have CRs dropped by 1 or 2 to compensate, since noone is likely to survive otherwise).

On the other hand Fighters just get shafted more. Remember all those feats with prereqs like 13 dex and 13 int? Yeah.

[Ravens_cry]

The other reason to use all 18s is: "We're calling forth the greatest heroes of the realm to save the world!" Not: "We're calling forth the most average people we can find to save the world."
It kind of gets wonky if a character dies and doesn't come back. Suddenly, another person who just happened to have all 18's steps out from the bushes.

[Angelalex242]

Well, maybe losing perfect stats is the penalty for dying in that world. "You only get ONE chance at perfect scores. Don't blow it..."

But yeah, nobody wants to play the league of extraordinarily mediocre gentlemen. We signed up to be fantasy heroes. (mediocrity is a lollipop. Lick it once and you suck forever...)

Besides, the normal barbarian plays like Hulk. "SMASH!*
All 18s barbarian plays like Conan, who gets the girl almost every time, has lots of skills, is mentally and physically tough...

[Akal Saris]

Pfft. Conan's Int is, like, 17, tops.

:smallbiggrin:

[gr8artist]

On a side note, anybody here find it curious that people seem to hate having a "negative" modifier in an ability? Like, I know people that will go out of their way buying items (headbands on barbarians) so that their "negative" ability score gets up to at least 10. When, in reality, the game would function just fine if ability modifiers were 1/2 ability score and every DC was increased by 5. AC becomes 15+modifiers, everyone gets 5 extra HP per HD, etc... Instead we use ([ability score]-10)/2...
Also, it pisses me off that there are no +1/+3/+5 enhancement items. You can make a headband that increases your intelligence from a 6th grade level to an 8th grade level, but not from 6 to 7?

[Story]

I've never observed that behavior, but I can imagine it. It's a classic framing effect + loss aversion.

As far as odd enhancement bonus items, they don't exist because they play havoc with balance and make stats harder to keep track of (as discussed at length in another recent thread). But if you really want one, you can get an odd enhancement bonus via Extract Gift. It followed basically the same price formula.

[Chronos]

Negative modifiers can be qualitatively different, in some cases. For instance, a negative Dex modifier hurts your AC even when you're flat-footed, but a positive modifier doesn't help when you're flat-footed. On the other hand, there are also some abilities that reference your ability modifier, "to a minimum of 1", or "if positive", in which case a negative modifier is no worse than a +0.

Personally, I find that it helps with characterization to have at least one thing your character is below-average at. It makes very little difference mechanically, as long as someone in the party is good at that, but it can be fun.



But yeah, nobody wants to play the league of extraordinarily mediocre gentlemen. We signed up to be fantasy heroes. (mediocrity is a lollipop. Lick it once and you suck forever...)
That's why PCs are usually generated via 4d6 drop lowest or 25+ point buy, instead of the 3d6 or 15 point buy ordinary schmucks are stuck with.