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View Full Version : Thought Exercise: you are the creator for the next D&D movie.



Isamu Dyson
2013-11-11, 07:52 PM
What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Also, would you stick to an established (popular?) campaign setting such as Greyhawk/The Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Eberron/etc?

genmoose
2013-11-11, 09:49 PM
I'm inclined to look at a relatively recent example of where a normally 'nerd' franchise exploded into mainstream culture and made a pile of money doing it; the modern Marvel movies.

How did they do it? It's hard to ignore the A list cast and massive special effects, but that doesn't seal the deal (think of the recent Hulk movies, Daredevil, Green Lantern, etc). My theory is that they had a solid plot, kept it realistic if not a little gritty, and tempered the inside jokes. Sure they threw in some nods to the loyal fan base, but you could enjoy Iron Man without any prior knowledge of the franchise.

I'd also look at the massive success of Game of Thrones. Again you have very much a 'nerd' genre (700+ pages per book, hundreds of characters, etc) that appeals both to the hardcore fan base as well as the casual viewer. In fact it can suck in many casual viewers that wouldn't normally have touched a 'fantasy' series.

So now that I've danced around the question, here is my list of must have's and must not's:

Must Have
1. Gritty realism of a pre-modern setting. There is disease, crime, poverty, suffering, etc. People are dirty and primarily concerned with surviving to see tomorrow or maybe next spring.

2. Some moral ambiguity in the majority of the characters. Sure you may have one shining example of a Lawful Good or Chaotic Good person, they should stand out among a sea of folks that teeter between neutral and evil.

3. Highlight that 'good' is often in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the main characters at one point have to steal or cheat to survive and are then shunned or refused help by some high and mighty paladin kind of folks.

4. Keep the story local and focused, at least at first (or in the first movie). We don't need to open with a thousand flying dragons or the best low budget knock off we can of the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Start the drama in a simple village and have hero thrust into his role against his will.

5. Introduce new races slowly and without great explanation. Try to avoid a tavern that looks like the Mos Eisley cantina. Also don't have the characters introduce themselves with the first paragraph of the player's handbook race description.

6. Stick to common monsters that don't require a lot of details. Orcs, goblins, ogres, spiders, wolves, etc. Make the enemies and monsters part of a real, living, breathing world. They have motivations, goals, needs, and aren't just a set piece to fill out a dungeon.

7. Magic should be subtle, possibly coincidence in some cases, and rare. If the heroes find a magic sword it should be surprisingly keen and well preserved, not glowing and with blinking lights that says "hey I'm magical, take me". This new sword may make the hero a more effective fighter but there's a question if it's the sword or just his own skill. Other magic items may just be superstition, such as a magic pouch of herbs to ward away evil but really does nothing but stink. True and overt magic should be withheld to all but the most powerful or important characters.

8. The goal for the heroes should be relatively mundane at least in the first movie/series, etc. "The Mayor's daughter was poisoned in a recent goblin raid, and the heroes must find a rare herb that will awaken her from her coma."

9. Keep the movie low budget, without making it look horribly low budget. Focus on characters and writing over massive set pieces and special effects.



Must Not Have

1. No fantastic crap from some third tier supplemental book. I know some folks think beholders are cool and undead beholders even better, but they're a bit over the top for an entry level movie/show.

2. Do not betray the source material just because it got in the way. IE the big bad is a human army but they have beholder guard dogs because it's cool. You can tweak things here or there to get around game mechanics issues, but don't completely change core elements for a sight gag.

3. Do not have the hero save the world. He's the equivalent of level 1. He may save the girl, or save the town, but that is about it.

4. Do not have the hero find artifacts or otherwise powerful magic items; or at least have them not be usable right away to their full power.

5. Do not do something that's supposed to appeal to the stereotypes of the genre. No rolling dice, no attacking the darkness. No winking at the camera just to make sure we got it that you used a bag of holding and we're supposed to know it's a bag of holding.

6. Do not cause the audience to recall their disbelief. Fantasy is about loosing yourself in the material and suspending disbelief. However bad fantasy keeps hitting you with disbelief like a dead fish to the face. "How did Gunther the dirt farmer somehow decapitate a dozen orcs and not get a scratch?" "Wait the slightly smarter than Gunther merchant's daughter managed to translate and correctly use a device created by another race and lost for centuries."

7. Do not cast known actors who look bothered to have taken the role. We've all seen that actor that says "You're the only hope we have to save the kingdom," but his eyes say "Oh God how could I have fallen this far? Maybe I shouldn't have wasted my money on hookers and blow. I hope this is enough to get my daughter through college."

As for the setting I would go for something like Forgotten Realms that has some wide appeal. It's hard to pass up all that pre-written source material, and it gives a depth that would otherwise require a lot of background writing.

But it has to be subtle. Don't give a grand tour of the Realms in the first 20 minutes. Stick to one area instead like Cormyr or the Dales. Toss out an occasional reference to Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter but don't belabor it. It gives those in the know a bit of a hint at what might come later.

Again think of the Marvel movies. All they have to do is show some purple dude (Thanos) for two seconds and fans know about what else may be coming. The writers don't even really have to stretch that much since most of their plot lines have effectively been pre-tested.

Kaveman26
2013-11-11, 10:12 PM
It would depend on several factors,budget being one of them. The higher the budget the higher level of content i would be looking to portray.

So....

If i had a 125 million dollar budget i am going to make a movie based on established content. Like dark elf drizzt material, or raistlin saga in dragonlance. Something that can be franchise,

If we are talking 50 to 80 million range, then i am going to scale back events but still go with d and d story. Probably tomb of horrors or temple of elemental evil,

Low budget...i am adapting sunless citadel and hoping i can get strong cast and most bang for my buck,.

Grinner
2013-11-11, 10:13 PM
*snip*

Corollary: There must be a romance sideplot. It can be totally inconsequential, but it must be there.

valadil
2013-11-11, 10:18 PM
There's only one thing I'd insist on. I wouldn't want it to be a fantasy movie in a D&D universe. For it to be a D&D movie, there should be roleplaying. I actually liked how this worked in The Gamers, but I wouldn't do it as a mockumentary.

Demidos
2013-11-11, 10:34 PM
A possibly interesting take--

Make it about the people actually playing the game. Who are these weirdos who actually enjoy this whole "role-playing thing"? Make it about the group at the table, and show how their real life plays into the game. Perhaps the paladin's player is having an off day and decides to randomly take it out on some nearby commoners. Every time role-play starts, abandon the group at the table and dive into the epic action sequences. Show people what gaming is like when you're actually playing, instead of just sitting around a table eating pizza and rolling dice. Show the audience the power of imagination. Okay, okay, a little too melodramatic, I know, I know.

You have precedence with things such as Jumanji and Zathura.

Throw in your staple nerds (male and female), the token athlete (or two, if a couple of them get sucked in somehow), a few other blantant stereotypical players and you're good to go!

I don't know. Could be fun.

Sir_Thaddeus
2013-11-11, 10:50 PM
There's two ways to go about this. One, make it about a group of gamers, alternating sequences in real-life and in the fantasy world where their characters exist. Two, make it completely fantasy, with the nod towards D&D primarily manifesting in what abilities the characters have, what spells exist, and what monsters they fight. Honestly, I could go either way.

If I had to choose a campaign setting, I'd probably go for Eberron. It's a (sort of) new take on the oft-tread idea of fantasy, and it's great for popular spectacle - imagine a CG* flyover of Sharn. The one downside is that, for those viewers who aren't familiar with D&D, the subversion of a lot of expectations that comes with the Eberron setting might put them off.

As for essentials, I'm not sure what the complete list is, but the characters HAVE to face a dragon at some point. Not only is it the most iconic fantasy monster, but it's half the name of the game/movie. Although, that might conflict with my desire to use Eberron...

If I didn't use Eberron, I'd probably just use a generic fantasy world. Greyhawk if I had to use a published campaign setting, otherwise something homebrewed and unnamed. In a localized story, the rest of the world doesn't have to be mapped out.

*Meaning "computer generated," not "chaotic good".

Slipperychicken
2013-11-11, 11:25 PM
I'm not much of a fan of D&D-style high-fantasy fiction. I love playing dnd, but not reading books or watching movies based off it. I probably wouldn't watch a dnd movie unless my peers were insistent that I do so.

Madcrafter
2013-11-11, 11:51 PM
I'll agree with most of genmoose's dos, and disagree with some of the donts. That said, the two things I'd do for a DnD movie are:
1) Set it in Eberron, because it's a setting where you can explore similar issues to the modern day easily, and will hopefully be a bit more relate-able to a wider audience with the level of technology.
2) Disconnect it completely from the DnD franchise marketing-wise. You don't really gain anything by having that link be there, because everyone familiar with DnD will already recognize it's a DnD movie, and there is some possibility people non-familiar will not see it because of the negative associations of the brand. Sure, the world will know it is one, but don't put "Dungeons and Dragons: The Dungeoning" on your posters.

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-12, 12:04 AM
Hm. A surprising amount of shame, thus far.

Rhynn
2013-11-12, 12:44 AM
Corollary: There must be a romance sideplot. It can be totally inconsequential, but it must be there.

Oh, come on, Avengers did just fine without-- oh, right (http://static.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tony-stark-bruce-banner-avengers-bromance.jpg).

Benthesquid
2013-11-12, 12:54 AM
I don't know what the plot of the movie would be (except that it would involve a dungeon, and at least one dragon) BUT...

It would definitely star Vin Diesel, Dame Judy Dench, and Stephen Colbert.

Edit: I'm thinking Dame Judy Dench as DM, Stephen Colbert as an obnoxious power gamer whose system mastery isn't nearly as good as he thinks, and Vin Diesel as a veteran player.

Acatalepsy
2013-11-12, 02:06 AM
Hire Peter Jackson. Film in New Zealand. Pretend that it's not actually a D&D movie, but an adaptation of some other fantasy bo-hey wait just a minute...

Most likely? Well...mostly, don't. Just....don't. There's plenty of other, more worthy concepts begging to have money thrown at them; D&D is a game, not a movie; it is not a story to be told but a thing to be played.

If I had to, for some reason? To the extent that I was trying to adapt D&D specifically, I'd focus on the themes of heroism; what kind of person gives up doing the easy thing, the expected thing, to go into deep places in the world, knowing that they might not come back. Some of that is pretty; some of it isn't.

Wraith
2013-11-12, 04:04 AM
Quite frankly, were I given the chance to make the next D&D film, I would basically reuse the script for Baldur's Gate, word for word. :smalltongue:

It has everything that genmoose described.

It's about a 'low level' character that had a sheltered upbringing, stepping out into the world to fight for a cause that effects them personally, but grows into a larger - universe encompassing - tale. If nothing else, and you only make the one film, it's about a son trying to avenge the death of his father and discovering that the antagonist is his blood-brother. Premise, twist, and resolution all neat and tidy!

All of the 'alien' elements - magic, non-human races and so on - are introduced one at a time in a logical progression, to a 'sheltered' protagonist, so the audience has plenty of time to catch up with what's going on with lots of plausible opportunities to have things explained out loud. Similarly, low-level magic can look good with the use of special effects, without it going too far and making visuals take over the plot. As the films progress and the party learns new skills, magic gets more prevalent until the story reaches it's climax and allows for a truly impressive final battle.

And of course, there's plenty of room for humour and romance along side the angst and violence, which can be as gritty as you want. BG's Faerun is basically Medieval Europe where the average peasant can pay their lifetime's savings in exchange for one Healing spell, if they're lucky, so you can make it as dark, dirty and filth-ridden as you like. It just makes the fantasy elements all the more fantastic. :smallsmile:

Starring Chris Hemsworth (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1165110/?ref_=tt_cl_t1) as Minsc, Tiny Lister (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001474/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1) as Sarevok and Ian McKellen as Gorion would be nice, but that's just icing. :smallbiggrin:

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-12, 04:42 AM
Baldur's Gate would most certainly require more than one film in order to display it's Mariana Trench of a story.

Fable Wright
2013-11-12, 05:02 AM
What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Absolutely Essential: Not irritating fans.
What I would ensure the movie never has: A chance to exist.

D&D is the framework to interact with the setting. Making a movie about D&D is like making a movie about movies. What do you possibly do to make it entertaining and cover all the bases?

Answer: Don't make the movie about D&D. Perhaps make a movie set in Eberron that's about the Last War, but never about D&D.

Emmerask
2013-11-12, 06:09 AM
Well there are some pretty good books that could be made into movies.
Dragonlance, Cormyr saga and Drizzt (the first few books).
So it would not be a d&d movie but a movie based on the d&d setting ie what these novels do ^^

Lorsa
2013-11-12, 06:20 AM
Wouldn't it simply be best to make a cinematic version of Order of the Stick?

CombatOwl
2013-11-12, 06:32 AM
What would you consider to be absolutely essential, and what would you ensure the movie never has?

Also, would you stick to an established (popular?) campaign setting such as Greyhawk/The Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Eberron/etc?

"Liches and Bitches"

Which, incidentally, will also be the title...


Baldur's Gate would most certainly require more than one film in order to display it's Mariana Trench of a story.

Could be worse, could be Planescape: Torment. Talk about a game that would not ever transfer well to a movie theater.

Eldan
2013-11-12, 06:55 AM
I'd never make a D&D movie. It's a ludicrous idea. D&D is a rules system, you can't make a movie about rules. At least not a good one. As for the adventures people have in it, D&D means too many things to too many people. Some hack their way through dungeons. Some explore exotic locations. Some travel the planes. Some play court intrigues.

Instead, make more specific movies. Setting: The Movie is still a bit broad, but might work. Novel: the movie could be done, for some. Personally, I'd tend towards Adventure module: the movie, with some heavy adapting.

BWR
2013-11-12, 07:30 AM
Considering movies like Saw, how about a Tomb of Horrors movie?

Jokes aside, I don't really have anything new to add.
- Choose a specific setting. Saves a bunch of trouble having to invent something for the movie, and many important NPCs are already taken care of.
Probably something classic like Greyhawk or FR or DL. Some settings might be a little too much for the generic public - PS, RL, DS, Mystara as a whole (though individual countries are fine), etc.

- Choose the sort of story you want to tell.
Do you want beginning level heroes, established group or high-level perhaps epic characters? The high-level/epic hero has more in common with the wilder wuxia or anime films and might be less accessable to a Western audience who aren't used to that sort of thing.
Stick with the sort of adventures for the right level. Goblins and orcs threatening a village for beginners, save the kingdom for mid-level, save the continent/world for high-level. Don't have newbies suddenly save the world or force epic heroes to fight a bunch of kobolds.

- Characters.
Make fun characters. Some cliches are ok, but don't make cliches, make characters. Try to avoid making the party come off like a Tolkien clone. Yes, we know that in D&D many of the cliches come from there, but for a wider audience it would make sense to try to play up the differences, not the similarities.

- Make it recognizably D&D
Walk the thin line between requiring lots of prior knowledge of the game and setting to understand what's going on and making a story that works on screen and on its own. However, the game mechanics do play an important role in the development of the setting, and there should be some element that those familiar with the game can directly attribute to the game. Fighters should be fighters, rogues should be rogues, clerics should be clerics and wizards should be wizards, etc. If necessary, I would have to say sacrifice the D&D element for a better story.

AstralFire
2013-11-12, 08:30 AM
For settings, you're pretty much either going to have to go with Planescape, Spelljammer, Eberron, or maybe Dark Sun.

Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk will get compared unfavorably both coming and going with Lord of the Rings. It's been long enough since the last desert fantasy movie of note that Dark Sun could get away with escaping bad comparisons, but Eberron, Spelljammer and Planescape do the most 'unique' with the D&D brand, and are coherent integrations of everything introduced by the mechanics.

Of those choices, Planescape risks being too bizarre and relying too much on a high budget and subverting expectations that the audience won't have. Eberron subverts as many Tolkienesque expectations as it does specifically D&D, on the other hand.

Eldan
2013-11-12, 09:14 AM
Eberron might require a lot of explanation before it can really be understood, though. Magic and weirdness are very commonplace, so that a plot on just about any level of society would face a lot of it.

Dark Sun, on the other hand, I think might work very well. It's just unusual enough not to be accused of plagiarism but not that weird or complicated on an everyday level. The basic look could be kept in the style of a classic sandal epic, just with fantastic creatures and some little magic added.

AstralFire
2013-11-12, 09:25 AM
Eberron might require a lot of explanation before it can really be understood, though. Magic and weirdness are very commonplace, so that a plot on just about any level of society would face a lot of it.

I don't feel like that much explanation is needed to have an adventure in Sharn. Here's a one sentence story: Down-on-luck shapeshifter finds deactivated robot man in forgotten parts of magical city, together they fight crime recover the robot's memory to solve a murder mystery.

I feel like anyone who's a fan of Eberron would say "this seems a decent representation of what Eberron can do" and anyone who's never heard of Eberron would say "I get the idea."

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-12, 09:55 AM
A Paladin, our protagonist. Raise in a monastery, so he can be the fish out of water guy every movie seems to need. Naive but crazy good in a fight so he can get into and out of trouble.


A Wizard and Ranger pair that are the 'comic relief' in the sense that they hate each other but work well together. They're also the most experienced in the group so the craziness just seems normal to them. The ranger is also ax-crazy it takes a while for people to notice though (because of his high charisma score).

An archer... I guess this can be 'the girl' can also be the hook into the main plot.

A Cleric, is shady, in it for the money.


Vin Diesel plays the bad guy.

Rhynn
2013-11-12, 12:28 PM
Well there are some pretty good books that could be made into movies.
Dragonlance, Cormyr saga and Drizzt (the first few books).
So it would not be a d&d movie but a movie based on the d&d setting ie what these novels do ^^

A Dragonlance movie could totally work, if it weren't an animation so bad it makes you vomit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance:_Dragons_of_Autumn_Twilight).

Anyway, they've already made plenty of D&D movies: Beastmaster (pretty Dark Sun, at that), The Sword and the Sorcerer, Dragonslayer, The Warrior and the Sorceress... many of them were complete garbage, but it's not like the later ones did any better...

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-12, 12:42 PM
All you have to do is take the look of Pathfinder then add magic and dragons a la Reign of Fire. And you'd have something at least us nerds would watch.

Phase
2013-11-12, 04:21 PM
I'd just put the money towards a theatrical release of The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising and call it a night.

TheThan
2013-11-12, 05:00 PM
Personally I think a “good” DND movie needs the following things:

1: a well written screenplay.
We’ve seen great movie franchises ruined by a botched script (Indiana Jones, Star Wars etc). Even if it’s a simple plot, it needs to be well written. It doesn’t have to be “epic” either. But it does need to be make sense and be well written.

2: good acting and directing.
These are related to number one. The best script ever can be spoiled by lousy acting and lazy directing; just as the best acting and directing can be spoiled by a trash script. Hire some actors and a director with chops and that cares enough about the material to do it right.

3: a solid universe.
It helps the actors and director greatly when they “get” the movie or film. That means establishing what sort of world they live in; how much technology to they have, how much access to magic do they have that sort of thing. I’ve seen several movies that were ruined because the director didn’t “get it”. It doesn’t matter as much if they use an established setting or just create their own, what’s important is that the director and actors understand the universe and direct/act accordingly.

4: a big budget
While I don’t believe a big budget automatically makes for a good movie. I believe that it certainly helps. With a big budget, the creators have the money and time needed to make great sets, great special effects (do practical effects practically, then worry about digital effects), and the money needed to spend enough time on shooting the film (aka doing takes).

Pex
2013-11-12, 07:36 PM
Must Have
1. Gritty realism of a pre-modern setting. There is disease, crime, poverty, suffering, etc. People are dirty and primarily concerned with surviving to see tomorrow or maybe next spring.

2. Some moral ambiguity in the majority of the characters. Sure you may have one shining example of a Lawful Good or Chaotic Good person, they should stand out among a sea of folks that teeter between neutral and evil.

3. Highlight that 'good' is often in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the main characters at one point have to steal or cheat to survive and are then shunned or refused help by some high and mighty paladin kind of folks.
. . .

Snippage for brevity.



I disagree.

Magic in D&D is not subtle. If it's to be a "D&D" movie, magic needs to be spotlighted. Poetic license allows for some divergence, but iconic spells must be shown for the fandom - Magic Missile, Fireball, Charm Person, Raise Dead, Cure Light Wounds, and a few others, even if not specifically and literally named. That's for the special effects to handle. It will take good writing and acting to keep it interesting. The Princess Bride did Raise Dead brilliantly. It is stupid writing to have an actor break the fourth wall to wink at the audience, literally, upon finding a magic item, but the existence of a bag of holding does not in itself break the wall. It can simply be some cool item a character finds.

D&D is fantastical, not gritty. Large cities, wild lands, farm country. People are not starving to death unless the country is evil which is the movie plot point. Poverty exists, but it's not prevalent.

Monsters need to exist. It's impractical to have every "iconic" monster, but they are needed. The first D&D movie did it stupidly with a cameo beholder and undead. Orcs and goblins have their place, but a troll for a "random encounter" is not out of the question. The BBEG doesn't have to be a humanoid, though that is easier for the general audience to relate. However, having the BBEG be a beholder makes for a nice change of pace from the stereotypical dragon or vampire. If it must be humanoid, let it be a Drow.

Morals in D&D are not relative. Good and Evil are defined concepts. It would be interesting to have one character question his morals, see Phillipe Gaston in Ladyhawke. I would agree the villain should not be doing evil things because he relishes his evilness. However, Good is not Evil with a different label.

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-12, 08:37 PM
Thank you, Pex.

Fiery Diamond
2013-11-12, 10:27 PM
I disagree.

Magic in D&D is not subtle. If it's to be a "D&D" movie, magic needs to be spotlighted. Poetic license allows for some divergence, but iconic spells must be shown for the fandom - Magic Missile, Fireball, Charm Person, Raise Dead, Cure Light Wounds, and a few others, even if not specifically and literally named. That's for the special effects to handle. It will take good writing and acting to keep it interesting. The Princess Bride did Raise Dead brilliantly. It is stupid writing to have an actor break the fourth wall to wink at the audience, literally, upon finding a magic item, but the existence of a bag of holding does not in itself break the wall. It can simply be some cool item a character finds.

D&D is fantastical, not gritty. Large cities, wild lands, farm country. People are not starving to death unless the country is evil which is the movie plot point. Poverty exists, but it's not prevalent.

Monsters need to exist. It's impractical to have every "iconic" monster, but they are needed. The first D&D movie did it stupidly with a cameo beholder and undead. Orcs and goblins have their place, but a troll for a "random encounter" is not out of the question. The BBEG doesn't have to be a humanoid, though that is easier for the general audience to relate. However, having the BBEG be a beholder makes for a nice change of pace from the stereotypical dragon or vampire. If it must be humanoid, let it be a Drow.

Morals in D&D are not relative. Good and Evil are defined concepts. It would be interesting to have one character question his morals, see Phillipe Gaston in Ladyhawke. I would agree the villain should not be doing evil things because he relishes his evilness. However, Good is not Evil with a different label.

Well said. What the person you quoted talked about would be great - for a generic fantasy movie. But for something specifically D&D, you're spot on.

GolemsVoice
2013-11-12, 10:49 PM
I disagree.

Magic in D&D is not subtle. If it's to be a "D&D" movie, magic needs to be spotlighted. Poetic license allows for some divergence, but iconic spells must be shown for the fandom - Magic Missile, Fireball, Charm Person, Raise Dead, Cure Light Wounds, and a few others, even if not specifically and literally named. That's for the special effects to handle. It will take good writing and acting to keep it interesting. The Princess Bride did Raise Dead brilliantly. It is stupid writing to have an actor break the fourth wall to wink at the audience, literally, upon finding a magic item, but the existence of a bag of holding does not in itself break the wall. It can simply be some cool item a character finds.

D&D is fantastical, not gritty. Large cities, wild lands, farm country. People are not starving to death unless the country is evil which is the movie plot point. Poverty exists, but it's not prevalent.

Monsters need to exist. It's impractical to have every "iconic" monster, but they are needed. The first D&D movie did it stupidly with a cameo beholder and undead. Orcs and goblins have their place, but a troll for a "random encounter" is not out of the question. The BBEG doesn't have to be a humanoid, though that is easier for the general audience to relate. However, having the BBEG be a beholder makes for a nice change of pace from the stereotypical dragon or vampire. If it must be humanoid, let it be a Drow.

Morals in D&D are not relative. Good and Evil are defined concepts. It would be interesting to have one character question his morals, see Phillipe Gaston in Ladyhawke. I would agree the villain should not be doing evil things because he relishes his evilness. However, Good is not Evil with a different label.

And I agree with your disagreement. If I wanted a show that was like Game of Thrones, I'd just watch/read Game of Thrones instead.

D&D for me is what a lot of other roleplaying games, movies and books shy away from now. It's not subtle. It's flying cities, wizard duels, magical creatures of the strangest kind, impractical but cool armour and weapons, evil gods, the works.

To me, a D&D movie should evoke a mix of wonder, like LotR, with beautiful costumes, magical vistas, and "coolness", for lack of a better word, with flashy magic, swordfights and tough encounters.

genmoose
2013-11-12, 11:13 PM
I disagree.

Magic in D&D is not subtle. If it's to be a "D&D" movie, magic needs to be spotlighted. Poetic license allows for some divergence, but iconic spells must be shown for the fandom - Magic Missile, Fireball, Charm Person, Raise Dead, Cure Light Wounds, and a few others, even if not specifically and literally named. That's for the special effects to handle. It will take good writing and acting to keep it interesting. The Princess Bride did Raise Dead brilliantly. It is stupid writing to have an actor break the fourth wall to wink at the audience, literally, upon finding a magic item, but the existence of a bag of holding does not in itself break the wall. It can simply be some cool item a character finds.


It does not have to be subtle, and quite a few past attempts have been quite fantastic. However I argue that subtle magic, especially in the beginning of the story, makes it feel a bit more real. It also allows for a little ambiguity about what might be real magic and what is the work of superstition or a con artist.

To me the Princess Bride was a subtle raise dead spell. Billy Crystal didn't wave his hands over his head, call forth crazy lights or shake the earth. He produced a chocolate coated pill. Was it really magic, or just some rudimentary pharmaceutical that seemed like magic at the time? There is some ambiguity.



D&D is fantastical, not gritty. Large cities, wild lands, farm country. People are not starving to death unless the country is evil which is the movie plot point. Poverty exists, but it's not prevalent.


D&D is anything you want it to be. I think for the story to work with a modern audience there has to be some realistic filth, poverty, and atmosphere. Sure you can make a Disney approved fantasy setting but I think it's going to come off as silly.



Morals in D&D are not relative. Good and Evil are defined concepts. It would be interesting to have one character question his morals, see Phillipe Gaston in Ladyhawke. I would agree the villain should not be doing evil things because he relishes his evilness. However, Good is not Evil with a different label.

I respectively disagree here. If Good and Evil are well defined and judged by the same yardstick then plot and character motivation is going to be pretty boring. Sometimes the best villain is someone who thinks he's doing the right thing. A very well used (almost cliched) concept is the conflict between two 'good' people who have a different moral focal point. One may judge each and every act as good or evil but someone else may look at the big picture and be willing to accept a little evil now for a big good payout in the end.

There are villains from Darth Vader to Doctor Doom who feel that the ends justify the means and that a unified planet/galaxy under a benevolent ruler will right all wrongs and be better than the chaos of 'freedom'. "So I conquered your planet and killed some of your soldiers in the process. But as citizens of the Empire you now have access to modern medicine, education, commerce, etc. I may seem evil, but your children will have twice your life span. Within 20 years your poor will live better than your kings do now. All it cost was a few lives and a small portion of your individual liberty."

Those sort of story themes draw parallels with our own world now. It makes it fun and interesting to watch and gives you something to think about.




I think a lot of the ideas I threw out were to try to get a movie that would appeal to a larger audience. I understand a complete sellout to the masses isn't a good thing but a larger audience = more revenue, more revenue = higher probability of sequels, more sequels = more material that folks here would enjoy watching.

What I would be really interested in seeing is a successful story franchise that involves a lot of enjoyable elements from D&D but not necessarily the mechanics. Exploration of the Underdark, the origins and goals of the Mindflayers, or any other sort of fantastic ideas that can be explored.

Eldan
2013-11-13, 04:40 AM
The thing is. Subtle magic might make for a good story, but it would not be a D&D story. Look at the tables in the DMG. It is assumed that everything larger than a hamlet has several casters. A large city has dozens of casters of high levels. Magic is everywhere, it can to everything and it is not remotely subtle.

We are not just making a fantasy movie here, we are making a D&D movie. That means we hvae to take D&Ds stance on magic. Flashy and ubiquitous.

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-13, 05:51 AM
Guys, guys, DnD magic comes in all ranges from subtle enchantments to literally epic spells. Let's just say both are nice in their own way and more on.

GolemsVoice
2013-11-13, 09:23 AM
Sure, D&D magic can be anything, but as magic goes, it's pretty flashy. Compare Gandalf to a mid-to-high-level D&D wizard. Sure, Gandalf might be more powerful as a being, but the D&D wizards magic will be used much more often, and much more obviously.

And that's exactly what I want from D&D, as a roleplaying game. I don't want to keep watch for my humanity or keep the Paradox intact, I don't want to have a 10% chance per spell of exhausting me or frying my brain. D&D to me is HIGH fantasy, and I revel in it's possibilities, especially compared to low-magic settings.

Composer99
2013-11-13, 10:47 AM
I would say that, leaving aside the mechanics of the game, most magic, monsters, and concepts in D&D would be easily accessible to a wider audience, and arguably easily acceptable as well, when rendered cinematically.

I mean, let's say in a scene Jane Warlord tells her hench-wizard to disintegrate someone. Finger point + green ray + victim vanishes in a puff of dust == easy and intuitive.

Or say Bob the Cleric wants to use a cure spell on his friend: he stretches forth his hand, it's surrounded with an aura of blue light, he touches the friend and blue light surrounds the wounds, closing them.

Thanks to super-hero films, or heck, 80's action flicks, if your action hero dude (the fighter) can shrug off or dodge blows that would obliterate some lesser mortal, no worries, that just means the fighter is a badass.

A film version of, say, Tomb of Horrors (as someone else mentioned upthread) could work pretty well if done in the style of other claustrophobic suspense/horror/attrition films, such as Alien - a team of adventurers infiltrates the lair of an evil lich (both undeath and Horcruxes phylacteries should be easy to grasp for an audience awash with vampire & zombie films and Harry Potter) and slowly gets whittled down until the survivors use their wits, weapons, and a dash of other magic to prevail.

That said, a D&D movie would not really be about D&D per se. Rather, you would map D&D concepts & bestiary onto a fantasy story and setting (e.g. the wizards in the movie would use spells consistent with D&D spells - burning hands, fireball, time stop, and so on) and some of the encounters could involve iconic D&D creatures (beholders, mind flayers, a dragon, of course).

Acatalepsy
2013-11-13, 11:32 AM
Real answer: make it a anime.

Sith_Happens
2013-11-13, 11:49 AM
Guys, guys, DnD magic comes in all ranges from subtle enchantments to literally epic spells. Let's just say both are nice in their own way and more on.

Sure, it's just that "subtle enchantments" is already what Generic Fantasy Movie #7 does, so if you want to stand out you lean more towards the "literally epic spells."

Mastikator
2013-11-13, 01:07 PM
I'd make a movie about the drama that goes on in a D&D gaming group, with scenes from their actual game as they imagine it. The movie would be about what's great about roleplaying.

Eldan
2013-11-13, 06:57 PM
I'd make a movie about the drama that goes on in a D&D gaming group, with scenes from their actual game as they imagine it. The movie would be about what's great about roleplaying.

THe problem is, there's already tons of those. Dozens of internet sketches and The Gamers 1-3.

Asheram
2013-11-13, 07:37 PM
I'd pay good money to see an Eberron movie. It's not such a huge leap from Sci-Fi to Magitech so the viewers could probably accept it more than a proper fantasy flick.

Though I'm slightly concerned that the one thing that pops up in my head when thinking about the visuals would be StarWars Episode 2 and 3.

Mastikator
2013-11-13, 07:40 PM
THe problem is, there's already tons of those. Dozens of internet sketches and The Gamers 1-3.

And there aren't tons of fantasy movies?

Eldan
2013-11-13, 07:57 PM
And there aren't tons of fantasy movies?

I can think of only a few with magic both as big and as flashy as what D&D can do. Harry Potter has flashy magic, but nothing remotely as big as what it often does in D&D. Lord of the Rings has big magic, but it is subtle. Unless it sinks continents. I really can't think of anything off the top of my head where flying, teleporting, invisible wizards fight each other with fire, lightning and gangs of summoned demons. Or casually rearrange the local climate in six seconds.

Amphetryon
2013-11-13, 08:07 PM
Set the movie in Eberron. Make the cast a straight-arrow LN Warforged Crusader, a sneaky CG Mongrelfolk Rogue, a creepy N Spellstitched Spellscale Dread Necromancer, and a Changeling Binder whose vestiges are direct ancestors.

Fight a dracolich.

Mastikator
2013-11-13, 10:18 PM
I can think of only a few with magic both as big and as flashy as what D&D can do. Harry Potter has flashy magic, but nothing remotely as big as what it often does in D&D. Lord of the Rings has big magic, but it is subtle. Unless it sinks continents. I really can't think of anything off the top of my head where flying, teleporting, invisible wizards fight each other with fire, lightning and gangs of summoned demons. Or casually rearrange the local climate in six seconds.

You can't make a movie like that without having plot holes the size of Jupiter. The only way you can make a D&D movie is either make a movie about a D&D gaming group or a parody of D&D.

AgentofHellfire
2013-11-13, 10:31 PM
You can't make a movie like that without having plot holes the size of Jupiter. The only way you can make a D&D movie is either make a movie about a D&D gaming group or a parody of D&D.

Ahm...science fiction, among other things, has all those things you've mentioned, and yet it's been the foundation of numerous good works.

Fiery Diamond
2013-11-13, 10:40 PM
THe problem is, there's already tons of those. Dozens of internet sketches and The Gamers 1-3.

Wait, there's a third The Gamers movie? Why wasn't I aware of this? *sets off in search of it*

USS Sorceror
2013-11-14, 05:13 PM
Main Heroes should include:

The Holy Man/Woman-Paladin or cleric, Lawful or Neutral Good, the party's moral compass and the main hero (if paladin) or dispenser of advice (if cleric). Any race.

The Barbarian/Fighter-Brutal melee warrior. Not too bright, but good-hearted. Best as a human or dwarf. Chaotic Good. Can be a two-sides comparison with Paladin main heroes. If there is no Paladin, they're probably the main hero.

The Archer-Ranger or rogue. Usually an elf or half-elf, and usually a lady as well. The main romance is usually between her and either the Paladin or Barbarian. Can be played as disdainful and sardonic (elf) or as new to adventuring and rather naive (half-elf). Some Neutral or Good alignment.

The Wizard/Sorcerer-Generally some kind of Neutral. Amoral, believing that the importance of magic is above all objective human morality. Usually butts heads with the Holy Man/Woman. Takes time off to do important research into spells, with occasionally disastrous results. Usually a human.

The Bard-One of the smaller folk, gnome or halfling. Fun-loving, a bit of a prankster, much to their companions chagrin. Loves humiliating enemies in battle as much as running a sword through them. The smooth talker when dealing with a city's thieves guild.

russdm
2013-11-14, 09:28 PM
I would point out the following films for examples of how to make a D&D movie: D&D Wrath of the Dragon God, The Gamers Dorkness Rising, The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey, Thor, Thor The Dark World, Journeyquest (Webseries, not film, worth mentioning).

1) D&D: Wrath of the Dragon God

This is the sequel to the first movie and it is actually better than the first one. The characters are all relatable and the plot is fairly easy to follow. It tries hard to stay true to the source material and in the special features stuff for the DVD, it has the director talking about using the 3.0/3.5 Phb with other classical stuff in the movie. There also stuff about having the actors actually using the game books when acting. Has a good mix of comedy/action in it. Establishes the characters relationships to each other. Worth watching people.

2) The Gamers: Dorkness Rising

This movie has a simple easy to follow plot, humor, and likable characters; which is everything a story needs to work well. Establishes the characters relationships to each other.

3) The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

Has great visuals, an interesting plot, and works hard to make us like the characters and root for them. The party dynamics are also established for us as well.

4) Thor

Classic good superhero introduction movie. Enough said.

5) Thor: The Dark World

Sequel to Thor and just as good. It is worth seeing.

6) Journeyquest

A sort of parody for D&D in the line of Dorkness Rising. Just as good and worth having/seeing

Making a Marketable D&D Movie)

Plot: The plot needs to be solvable by choices made by the characters. At no time should magic be able to immediately solve the entire plotline for the film. The plot should fit the concept of the characters and have actually meaning to each of them. Characters that have no connection to the plot are not worth having or showing as main characters. The story needs to be driven by the characters, not the characters' equipment.

Characters: There needs to be characters that the audience can like otherwise no one will like the film. The characters needs to have established relationships with each other and to the plot. The characters should be easily recognizable, certain kinds of dress/weapons/talking, and have clearly defined roles within the group that other characters don't waltz into.

Actors/Director: Useful, but lousy plots and characters cannot be saved by amazing directors and actors and the resulting story is still pretty bad. That said, try to get people that are pretty good at making the plot/characters valuable to the audience or meaningful to the audience.

Visual Effects: Using real objects and computer generated effects to make the world look real and inhabited helps sell the film. It also helps for certain parts of the plot, but the plot is more important than the effects.

No Mary-Sues: Characters like Wizards in the game can end challenges with a spell. For a movie, this is bad because it removes dramatic tension. "We need to get to the city before the army does. Let's ride!", "Oh, just have X(Character with magic) teleport us there." Bam, tension lost. Why did getting to the city before the army did matter again? Or, "We need to knock out that bridge span so the archers can't use it.", "Have X(Character with magic) blast the archers with fireballs." Bam, tension lost. Why were the archers an actual concern if only a few fireballs were actually needed to remove their threat? A movie with lots of these moments becomes pointless and there is no reason for the audience to be concerned because the characters can solve every problem with magic, meaning the whole plot is meaningless.

Limited Scope: The story needs to keep the amount of events/occurances/characters/moments limited to what helps move the film along to its conclusion and have them matter to plot or characters. Random scenes that show/tell us nothing about the plot or characters have no place. The story should be solvable with the main characters with limited outside help. There should be no deus ex machinas.

With these guidelines in mind, it shouldn't be hard to make a film. Using something more easily approachable like greyhawk or dark sun or making up a homebrew setting to use works way better than using eberron or forgotten realms. If you employ a small area, eberron works. FR only works if you employ a single city, any plot involving larger areas don't occur in FR due to the persence of NPCs that can solve the problems and should have done so before the problem needs to be solved by our heroes. Establishing why the NPC did nothing detracts from the story and moves the heroes from a team of misfits/chosen ones/whatever to the chumps who gets these kinds of jobs because no one else wants to do it or cares to. That is not good for a story.

Ravens_cry
2013-11-14, 10:21 PM
Hmm, a gritty noir drama in Eberron. You don't need the costumes. What you need is the attitude, as Hard Boiled Shaman (http://hardboiledshaman.com/) proved.

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-14, 10:45 PM
You always need costumes.

Ravens_cry
2013-11-14, 11:22 PM
You always need costumes.
Not A costume, THE costume, the 1930's to 40's **** Tracy Look.

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-14, 11:24 PM
What the movie needs: Fireball.

InQbait
2013-11-15, 03:12 AM
I agree with what russdm says on this topic.
I am no expert filmmaker or storyteller here, but I've had my fair share of DMing/GMing. I've learned a lot over the years.
I also agree with other posters on this thread in that Dungeons and Dragons should remain a game, and shouldn't go beyond that. A movie of Dungeons and Dragons doesn't necessarily bother me, but why do people feel the need to do that? Dungeons and Dragons is so up for interpretation. It is a subjective experience, and doesn't need a movie adaptation. It varies from person to person.

If anything, a movie about Dungeons and Dragons should be an "advertisement" for the game and draw non-players into the game and show them what it's really like and how fun it actually is and ignoring the stygma surrounding the game. And, I think, The Gamers Movies did a pretty good job of that, up until the third movie, which I haven't been able to watch fully yet :/

Knaight
2013-11-15, 03:34 AM
Real answer: make it a anime.

This already happened at least twice. Slayers and Record of Lodoss War are both D&D based. RoLW is actually based on a particular campaign - I'd consider it awful, but it does better having a fanbase than the actual D&D movies do. Slayers I haven't seen any of, but I can't speak to any optimism on that account. As has been said by half the thread, D&D's a game that wouldn't transfer to film well. In all honesty, I'd go so far as to call it a game where the setting side doesn't transfer to gaming particularly well, though there are exceptions here.

Asheram
2013-11-15, 04:07 AM
Hmm, a gritty noir drama in Eberron. You don't need the costumes. What you need is the attitude, as Hard Boiled Shaman (http://hardboiledshaman.com/) proved.

Yeeees... This. This I'd watch.

Benthesquid
2013-11-15, 03:24 PM
THe problem is, there's already tons of those. Dozens of internet sketches and The Gamers 1-3.

You raise a good point.

I would make The Gamers with Vin Diesel, Stephen Colbert, and Dame Judy Dench.

Ravens_cry
2013-11-15, 03:34 PM
You always need costumes.
I would love to see that more. As I have said many times previously, animation can look just so much more integrated than mixing CGI and humans on greenscreen if the animation is competent.

Yeeees... This. This I'd watch.
I am heartened you approve.

Rhynn
2013-11-15, 05:23 PM
I would love to see that more. As I have said many times previously, animation can look just so much more integrated than mixing CGI and humans on greenscreen if the animation is competent.

For best results, mix incompetent animation with baffling CGI (http://epicfail.xepher.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dragonlance.jpg).

theNater
2013-11-16, 04:01 AM
Just wanted to throw in my two cents.

One of the things D&D has that is very rare in other fantasy settings is people who adventure for a living. So professional adventurers should be involved, at least. I'd like for the main and major characters to be a pre-existing adventuring party. Depending on plot and expository needs, adding a main character who is not an adventurer to act as audience surrogate would be okay.

As people have commented, flashy and utilitarian magic is also big in D&D. I'd like the party to be somewhere around levels 5-8; high enough to have a few impressive effects like Fireballs, but low enough that they aren't really into the major plot-hole generators like Teleport.

Speaking of spells, resource management is also another big part of D&D that we don't see a lot of elsewhere. A few nods to that would be very important; have the team leader ask a spellcaster what he's got left and get a list, have a wizard suggest a spell only to be told to hang on to it for a better opportunity, that kind of thing. This also allows for judicious use of the plot-hole generators; they can be found as scrolls when necessary.

And that brings us to magic items and their disposability. Many fantasy settings will treat every magic item almost religious reverence, but a D&D fighter will swap a magical sword for a more magical axe in a heartbeat. To that end, we should probably show the heroes getting an upgrade at some point. Alternately, we can have some or all of the heroes have a piece of gear that doesn't match the rest of their outfit and which is at some point demonstrated to be magical.

Last but not least, there are the two key elements of D&D: dungeons and dragons. The bulk of the events should take place within a single dungeon. There should be deadly traps, bizarre monsters, and random encounters. As for the dragons, a dragon should be interacted with by the heroes at some point in the film. Whether it's the foe during the climactic final battle, the quest-giver, or a creature the heroes just happen to bump into in the dungeon, it needs to be there, and it needs to demonstrate that it is capable of reason and speech. This last isn't unique to D&D dragons, but is an important part of their flavor.

Thematically, those are my key requirements. From a production perspective, it needs good writing, good acting, action sequences that can be followed by the audience, etc., but that's not D&D specific.

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-16, 05:01 AM
As far as adventurers go I had that covered with 2 of my proposed team being old hand adventurers.

Ravens_cry
2013-11-16, 08:23 AM
For best results, mix incompetent animation with baffling CGI (http://epicfail.xepher.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dragonlance.jpg).
Or the end of Heavy Metal 2000.:smallyuk:

Lorsa
2013-11-16, 08:58 AM
I am really bad at coming up with names (especially for my own characters), so I'll leave those out but this is how I would make the first scene:

The movie starts with a black screen, with sounds of people shuffling about, clainking of armor and weapons etc.

Man voice: Okay X, cast a Light spell please.
Another man voice: I didn't prepare any Light spells today.
First voice again: What do you mean you didn't prepare any Light spells? What wizard doesn't prepare Light?
The wizard: I asked you yesterday if there were any spells in specific you wanted me to prepare for this excursion and you said you left it to my judgement. It is not my fault your divine inspiration lead us down the corridor that happened to have a large hidden trap door that took us down this shaft to begin with.
*silence*
First voice: So what did you prepare then?
Wizard: As cantrips? A lot of Detect Magic obviously. *short silence* There isn't any magic down here by the way.
First voice (let's say the Paladin) sighs: Alright Y, can you lit one of the torches then?
Female voice: I didn't bring any torches.
Paladin, now sounding a bit abject: You didn't bring any torches...
Female voice, a bit angry: Well, I asked you yesterday what sort of gear I should bring and you said only to take the bare necessities, that thus dungeon shouldn't take more than a few hours and that we shouldn't be dragged down by unnecessary equipment. You wanted to be in charge so I listened to you. Besides, what wizard doesn't prepare at least one Light?
*silence*
Another female voice starts singing softly and after a while the room lits up to reveal the 4 person party trapped in a small stone-bricked room.


That's how I think my D&D movie would start. Like some people said, it isn't supposed to be a generic fantasy movie. It's supposed to be a D&D movie! It should involve an adventure party, it should take place in dungeons and while it shouldn't be a parody like The Gamers, it should be funny. You can't make a totally serious D&D movie. That's either going to fail, or look too much like generic fantasy or both.

Morithias
2013-11-16, 10:35 AM
I'd just take Spoony's thieve's world story and adapt it.

Either that or d20 live.

Sith_Happens
2013-11-16, 10:42 AM
Wait a second... Guys...

Tales of Wyre (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58227-Tales-of-Wyre): The Movie(s)

*blows own mind imagining it*

1337 b4k4
2013-11-16, 03:43 PM
I like Lorsa's opening, but I'd probably simple buy the rights to this:

http://vimeo.com/58179094 (warning, may not be SFW)

and turn it into a feature length animation. To me, that short animation is the essence of D&D distilled into 9 minutes. And be sure to watch all the way through the credits.

Akal Saris
2013-11-18, 12:34 AM
For the sake of continuity, I'd re-hire Bruce Payne to reprise Damodar from the first 2 D&D movies. Because I think it would be awesome if an evil dude with mascara was the only point of continuity across every D&D movie. :smallbiggrin:

For the movie itself, I'd like for it to be light-hearted/feel-good ala The Princess Bride or Dragonheart. I think there are enough grim movies out there to choke on these days, and I don't think most D&D games end up being low-magic, high mortality game of thrones style stories.

Tevesh
2013-11-18, 02:16 AM
I like Lorsa's opening, but I'd probably simple buy the rights to this:

http://vimeo.com/58179094 (warning, may not be SFW)

and turn it into a feature length animation. To me, that short animation is the essence of D&D distilled into 9 minutes. And be sure to watch all the way through the credits.

That's awesome. In fact, I agree that D&D at this point would need to be an anime. There is no way it could be funded in a live action movie.

The politics between acquiring the funds would be too vast which would mandate too much studio control. Furthermore, it would not be able to draw upon the usual funds because medieval worlds cannot really have Commercial Sponsors (a prime source of income) or utilize the US Military (one of the most beneficial sponsors - why do you think Transformers is so gung ho?).

The lack of funding on Heavy Metal 3 is an example of why even this wouldn't be possible. The ultra-violet anime like Ninja Scroll or Ghost in the Shell have fallen out of favour. They just don't make them like the used to. Why does D&D have to be violent? That's the primary selling point - you play veterans of dungeons, violence is your primary resolution technique. But hell, if Del Toro can't even acquire the funding or studio green light for The Mountains of Madness... The next D&D movie is going to have be after the first is long forgotten, perhaps in 20 years.

D&D to me would have to be larger than life, similar to Kung Fu Hustle. You would need to tone down the Martial Arts, but just like Nine Swords was made because "we were ready" and 4th Ed's follow-up, you would need one impressive SOB for a Fighter. To separate itself from LotR, the main opponents would need to be Ogres - monsters of at least that scale. This ain't your grandpa's monster.

One of the sticking points for the franchise is that the heroes are ridiculously tough. It takes 3 or 4 Longsword hits to drop the Fighter and this is what is lacking in all current fantasy cinema, showing people being that badass. I think that's why 300 struck such a macho chord - you have a spare eye, dining in Hell is expected and having your child slain just gives you Rage.

Somewhere between 300 and Kung Fu Hustle is what we're aiming for. You need Fighters to be that tough because on the other end of the spectrum is the very deadly Wizard. There needs to be a Charm or Dominate and it cannot end with "Remember we're your friends, I know you're still in there." The Cleric or Rogue at this point whips out the solution; Cleric with Dispel, Rogue with throat slit of the enemy Wizard.

Dungeoncrasher Fighter, TWF Invisible Blade Rogue, Cleric ('Cause that's all you need) and perhaps Battle Sorcerer. Yeah, the Wizard might be iconic but its the Harry Dresden that gets the respect. We're trying to separate ourselves from LotR - we don't wise old men, we want rash hotheads that fling spells.

That's the feel. As I'm partial to Eberron, I'd make that my suggestion. Or the Thieves Guild Dispute in RA Salvatore's The Silent Blade. That was pretty awesome and showed the difference between all the classes without once Forgetting a Realm with Dragons in a Dungeon. Perfect.

And you would need to file the serial numbers off. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons: Sharn Adventure, this is a catchy one name title. Like the previews for The Machine or Prototype. Hell, that could be the plot device.

By removing D&D from the title, you can honour the game without shoe-horning the writers into placing the adventurers in a Dungeon against a Dragon.

And for people who recommend the whole "Playing around the Table" - its been done before in so many ways. Hell, just watching people play can be amusing. The Penny Arcade celebrity D&D is so amusing that I've watched all the videos - couldn't bother with the podcasts but that's how it is, I guess.

Knaight
2013-11-18, 04:13 PM
That's how I think my D&D movie would start. Like some people said, it isn't supposed to be a generic fantasy movie. It's supposed to be a D&D movie! It should involve an adventure party, it should take place in dungeons and while it shouldn't be a parody like The Gamers, it should be funny. You can't make a totally serious D&D movie. That's either going to fail, or look too much like generic fantasy or both.

This seems like a pretty decent way to handle it. D&D really doesn't suit itself to serious well, and your whole example dialog regarding light seems fairly functional, and certainly makes an impression.

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-18, 04:38 PM
How much CGI should a D&D/D&D-based film have?

Amphetryon
2013-11-18, 05:08 PM
How much CGI should a D&D/D&D-based film have?

Option 1: on par with the Flash Gordon movie.

Option 2: all of it.

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-18, 05:11 PM
Option 1: on par with the Flash Gordon movie.

Option 2: all of it.

I'll forgive CGI usage if a Gelatinous Cube is going to make an appearance :smallbiggrin:.

---

By the way, how would you represent a "Level Drain" onscreen/being portrayed by an actor?

Emmerask
2013-11-18, 06:16 PM
How much CGI should a D&D/D&D-based film have?

I personally like a good mix of practical effects and cgi.
(Nearly) full cgi movies... one just feels that the actors are interacting with thin air (star wars 1-3 *cough*) it just does not feel real.

Manly Man
2013-11-18, 08:10 PM
I would probably do Tomb of Horrors as a black comedy.

Slipperychicken
2013-11-18, 08:44 PM
By the way, how would you represent a "Level Drain" onscreen/being portrayed by an actor?

Kind of like the Dementors' happiness draining from the Harry Potter movies? Showing some shimmering (possibly colored?) effect as though it's being taken out of them, then have the actor appear as though he was drained/exhausted.


People having their soul-energy drained out of them has been a thing for quite a while now.

Knaight
2013-11-18, 09:06 PM
Kind of like the Dementors' happiness draining from the Harry Potter movies? Showing some shimmering (possibly colored?) effect as though it's being taken out of them, then have the actor appear as though he was drained/exhausted.


People having their soul-energy drained out of them has been a thing for quite a while now.

The other major way that tends to get shown is with some sort of visible aging/muscle loss effect.

Raimun
2013-11-18, 09:55 PM
I think this should be developed like a classic D&D-campaign.

The heroes start at first level. They face the kind of things 1st level characters face, Ie. kobolds, goblins, perhaps an orc or a few? They are sent or stumble upon a dungeon and decide to put an end to whatever there is. They do... but it's not over yet!

That way, the first film would not need that much special effects: "Damn it, no more magic missiles." And if there will be more movies with bigger budgets, you could slowly add more and more fantastical effects and creatures.

The characters should be all wildly different, who all clearly have their own special abilities. I'm thinking of something like "balls to the walls"-Barbarian (who doesn't look like Conan), a bookish Wizard with keen tactical insight and clever solutions to problems, a rogue who is more like solid snake than a stereotypical jolly halfling rogue, a down to earth but wise(cracking) cleric and perhaps a zany bard. You need the zany bard.

Just like people like to play different classes, I would imagine people would like to see different kinds of characters. The most important thing is that none of them should look a total dead weight who only gets captured and is for some reason "the heart of the team". Also, none of them should be "the hero" or "the leader". Somehow, I would imagine having an ensemble cast would do the trick. This would also be very much like in a D&D-campaign, where there is no protagonist but a fistful of characters who are trying to one up each other enough to become one. :smallbiggrin:

Of course, I'm sure it would also need that "extra something". It's pretty hard to come up with that when you can only speculate.

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-19, 07:38 PM
That might work for a tv show (and even then you're going to want to hint at the grander things to come) but you're going to have to accelerate things for a movie, you only have a handful of scenes in that hour and a half.

Vitruviansquid
2013-11-19, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't represent D&D in a movie by having the movie take place entirely in a D&D world using D&D tropes. Instead, I would try to represent the game.

The story will switch between in two layers - the real life layer and the in-game layer. The "real story" will be told in the real life layer, where perhaps a group of D&D players will undergo a dramatic, touching, possibly tragic, and possibly comedic storyline. The focus is on the real life layer because audiences unfamiliar with D&D tropes will be more able to connect to it. The in-game layer will exist in parallel, or perhaps as a foil, to the real life layer and grant the audience insight into the characters' minds or pose interesting juxtapositions that give new dimensions to the real life layer story. The in-game layer is also where all the spectacle and special effects will be. As the twin plots progress through the film, the two layers of the story might merge, if we want to work the angle of "but the magic was in us the whole time!" or if we want to take a more down-to-earth approach, D&D might give the main characters insights into their real-life conflicts that eventually drive them toward the climax and resolution.

Weiser_Cain
2013-11-20, 05:05 AM
So Princess Bride or Neverending Story? Who gets to ride the Luck Dragon?

Isamu Dyson
2013-11-20, 01:08 PM
So Princess Bride or Neverending Story? Who gets to ride the Luck Dragon?

The more important question will be the one that the characters ask each other.

"Who gets the Luck Blade? :smallfrown:"