An Elf among Dwarves

[Xuldarinar]

Simply a basic concept for a character that I doubt will ever come to the table.

An elf who was raised by dwarves, who was raised with their culture, so on. What would such an individual be like? How would their nature interact with such a different nurture?

[OldTrees1]

Well a quick an dirty way to do it is to make a dwarf character and replace the dwarvish biology with elvish biology. However it can be done better than that. Consider a dwarvish character. What struggles would an elf have trying to live up to that ideal? Obviously they are not as hardy as a dwarf. How would they respond to their failures (small or large) to live up to their "peers". Would it push them to try to outdwarf other dwarves? Or would they try to weave their differences into a strength?

I can see an Elf that embraces a slightly more fluid combat style (more "lava flow style" than "mountain style"), who works extra hard to overcome their natural frailty and who uses their relatively higher charisma to counter act the social penalty of "being different".

[Xuldarinar]

Well a quick an dirty way to do it is to make a dwarf character and replace the dwarvish biology with elvish biology. However it can be done better than that. Consider a dwarvish character. What struggles would an elf have trying to live up to that ideal? Obviously they are not as hardy as a dwarf. How would they respond to their failures (small or large) to live up to their "peers". Would it push them to try to outdwarf other dwarves? Or would they try to weave their differences into a strength?

I can see an Elf that embraces a slightly more fluid combat style (more "lava flow style" than "mountain style"), who works extra hard to overcome their natural frailty and who uses their relatively higher charisma to counter act the social penalty of "being different".

Hmm.. I could see that. We have to consider several things. How much of an elf's personality is nature as opposed to nurture, what dwarves culture is like, how would the elf handle being an outsider in the culture (possibly dealing with discrimination), and how would the individual deal with being different.

I imagine a coarse elf. Lacking in facial hair, perhaps they may take to wearing a cloth of sorts around their neck, at least to them simulating the appearance of a beard. A thick, ornately woven scarf perhaps. While they are as strong as any dwarf, they aren't as durable, much to their own frustration. While not necessarily as inherently fond of precious metals and gold, they take to many of the same habits as dwarves regarding them, possibly to a greater degree. This could be attributed to the desire to fit in, which can become exaggerated, but also that such a thing to an adventurer would be a reminder of home. Accustomed to wandering the dark at times, they could tend to keep some minor source of light or try to have some means of seeing in the dark, a capability dwarves possess innately. They may possess a thicker skin when it comes to insult due to having dealt with the culture of dwarves along with any conflicts due to his race.

From the mechanical side, I think it would be reasonable to swap the elf weapon familiarity with that of the dwarf weapon familiarity, having been raised in a differing culture.

[OldTrees1]

I think a mixed weapon familiarity would be more appropriate. Mostly dwarven weapon but I would not be surprised if there were some that just felt off and some foreign elf weapons that just felt right.
So a Dwarven Waraxe and an Elven Courtblade would feel familiar but a Dwarven Urgrosh and an Elven Thinblade would feel foreign. Looking for racial weapons that fit on the dwarven side of the middle of the two races.

Nice ideas about the appearance and habits.

[Chronos]

There's a prestige class for just this sort of situation: Stoneblessed, from Races of Stone. It's really easy to qualify for, and after three levels, you count as a dwarf (or gnome or goliath, if you prefer) in addition to your original race. The inspiration was probably Captain Carrot Ironfounderson, from Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, who's a six-foot-tall dwarf.

[Slipperychicken]

An elf who was raised by dwarves, who was raised with their culture, so on. What would such an individual be like? How would their nature interact with such a different nurture?

He'd probably have to go seriously overboard on dwarfiness in an attempt to "prove himself" to his peers.

D&D racism is like real-world racism turned up to 12 (i.e. all Dwarves hate all goblinoids so much that they are 5% more accurate when shooting at them), so he was probably routinely beaten*, taunted, and spit on just for his heritage, leaving profound psychological trauma. Even among close friends, he's definitely discriminated against since he's in a social out-group.

*But given the fact that he's a D&D murderhobo adventurer, he probably kicked their asses after some training, but retaliation would be liable to get him murdered.

[Benthesquid]

An Elf among dwarves? He would be... legend.

Behold, the glory that is Cacame Awemedinade, The Immortal Onslaught. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39897.0)

TL;DR- Cacame Awemedinade was an elf raised in a village under dwarvish rule. After a bunch of other elves turned up, slaughtered his village, and ate his wife, he went a little crazy, killed hundreds of elves, and became King of the Dwarves. Later, he got a statue.

[Duke of Urrel]

Since an elf would be low in Constitution, but high in Charisma compared to a dwarf, I would recommend the knight class from Player's Handbook II. This would give you a d12 as a Hit-Die and endow you with some tricks that make use of your Charisma. If any dwarf claims that you aren't dwarven enough, you can issue a Knight's Challenge and prove yourself in an honorable, fair fight.

[Giarc]

A wiki page to Cacame Awemedinade (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Cacame_Awemedinade).

[Zazax]

Curses. I was beaten to the punch on the concentrated win that is Cacame.
Ah well, I'll throw in a +1 for him, then.

[CyberThread]

look up stoneblessed my friend :)

[Xuldarinar]

I appreciate the input thus far.



Considering the elves are naturally inclined towards magic, and such a discipline exists among dwarves, perhaps an elf raised among them could still be drawn to the use of magic, at least to dabble within in. Of course with that, later on they may become a runesmith.

Though, perhaps they wish to focus as much as they can on being as durable as possible. Levels in dwarves defender wouldn't be far fetched.

Combining both notions, perhaps..
Wizard 1/Knight 1/Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 3/Runesmith 5/Dwarven Defender 10

[BWR]

The elf, assuming average Constitution, will have a 4 point difference between him/her and the average dwarf. That's a significant difference, probably made fun of during childhood - little elf boy/girl is so weak s/he gets winded after a brief run, gets sick all the time, has a delicate stomach, can't hold his/her ale, etc.

Unless your dwarves have a wizard tradition, sorcerer might be a better choice, thematically. The elf's innate magical nature makes itself known even in the absence of formal education.

[Xuldarinar]

The elf, assuming average Constitution, will have a 4 point difference between him/her and the average dwarf. That's a significant difference, probably made fun of during childhood - little elf boy/girl is so weak s/he gets winded after a brief run, gets sick all the time, has a delicate stomach, can't hold his/her ale, etc.

Unless your dwarves have a wizard tradition, sorcerer might be a better choice, thematically. The elf's innate magical nature makes itself known even in the absence of formal education.

Do my eyes decieve me? Someone saying a sorcerer might be a better choice than wizard?

You do have a good point there. There are, also, other arane spellcasting classes to concider. The choice varrying between the elf's apptitude along with the dwarves with which they are raised.

It should also be noted, elves take longer to mature than dwarves. Perhaps, another source of teasing/taunting and another thing to make them feel more distant.

[Vhaidara]

I like the idea of Wizard[Sor]/Knight/Stoneblessed/Runesmith, but I feel Eldritch Knight might be a better followup than DD. Mostly because I really like EK, but it also continues your casting advancement (with DD you end up at level 20 with level 6 casting, EK gives you CL 15)

[Lord Vukodlak]

In a campaign I have coming up there's a Dwarf who was adopted by Halflings. Though in the setting I designed the long lived races don't live dramatically longer lives then humans. Halflings have the same lifespan as humans and Dwarves mature at twenty and reach venerable at ninety

That character's difference is she uses the Halfling starting languages rather then the Dwarven. Originally the PC was going to have his character adopted by humans but I said "Halflings would be funnier."

[Xuldarinar]

I like the idea of Wizard[Sor]/Knight/Stoneblessed/Runesmith, but I feel Eldritch Knight might be a better followup than DD. Mostly because I really like EK, but it also continues your casting advancement (with DD you end up at level 20 with level 6 casting, EK gives you CL 15)

Granted. The difference is health and durability vs higher caster level. I'd bring up spellsword, but already with runesmith there is a means to cast in armor. Though, can a spontaneous spellcaster prepare their spells via Rune Magic?


In a campaign I have coming up there's a Dwarf who was adopted by Halflings. Though in the setting I designed the long lived races don't live dramatically longer lives then humans. Halflings have the same lifespan as humans and Dwarves mature at twenty and reach venerable at ninety

That character's difference is she uses the Halfling starting languages rather then the Dwarven. Originally the PC was going to have his character adopted by humans but I said "Halflings would be funnier."

That actually sounds both interesting and amusing.

[Vhaidara]

Actually, you don't meet dwarven defender prereqs.
Wizard/Sor 1: .5 BAB
Knight 1: 1.5 BAB
Stoneblessed 3: 3.75 BAB
Runesmith 5: 6.25 BAB

And DD requires +7 BAB. And this is with the houserule I've always worked with that mens you use the actual advancement for BAB instead of thee raw number on the table (it's where the decimals come in). Otherwise, you BAB is +5 at level 10

[Lord Vukodlak]

That actually sounds both interesting and amusing.
Oh It is, once I told him if he was adopted by Halflings his dwarf could substitute halfling starting languages he jumped for it. Furthermore the character discovered at an early age her adoptive parents had lied to her... about being a Halfling.

Oh icing, everyone one else decided on Dwarf characters so its a Dwarven campaign in world where the Dwarven kingdoms were destroyed and most of its population enslaved for centuries. So the character really fits in with the motif of all the dwarves who've lost or forgotten their heritage.

[OldTrees1]

Dwarven society seems more drawn to Divine magic when magic is involved. Maybe a divine gish using a divine conversion of runesmith (and divine conversions of other prc as necessary)?

Obviously this would need DM approval but an idea like Dwarven Elf is begging for DM cooperation.

[GeekGirl]

I give you Sandwich Stoutaxe (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sandwich_Stoutaxe). I Found the story a few months ago, it was pretty good.

[Xuldarinar]

Actually, you don't meet dwarven defender prereqs.
Wizard/Sor 1: .5 BAB
Knight 1: 1.5 BAB
Stoneblessed 3: 3.75 BAB
Runesmith 5: 6.25 BAB

And DD requires +7 BAB. And this is with the houserule I've always worked with that mens you use the actual advancement for BAB instead of thee raw number on the table (it's where the decimals come in). Otherwise, you BAB is +5 at level 10

Right you are. Perhaps levels later on there but, that build doesn't meet the prerequisites at that point. Unfortunate.


Oh It is, once I told him if he was adopted by Halflings his dwarf could substitute halfling starting languages he jumped for it. Furthermore the character discovered at an early age her adoptive parents had lied to her... about being a Halfling.

Oh icing, everyone one else decided on Dwarf characters so its a Dwarven campaign in world where the Dwarven kingdoms were destroyed and most of its population enslaved for centuries. So the character really fits in with the motif of all the dwarves who've lost or forgotten their heritage.

Huh. That sounds like fun.


Dwarven society seems more drawn to Divine magic when magic is involved. Maybe a divine gish using a divine conversion of runesmith (and divine conversions of other prc as necessary)?

Obviously this would need DM approval but an idea like Dwarven Elf is begging for DM cooperation.

Oh certainly. Perhaps they even worship Moradin.. Any good PrCs devoted to Moradin?

[gorfnab]

Warblade 1/ Wizard 1/ Stoneblessed 3/ Runesmith 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Deepstone Sentinel 5