Druid Build Questions

[Macabros]

Ok I have a few questions, sorry if this post sucks.
1. Is the Killoren race from RoW any good for them?
2. Is there any way the Druid can gain another set of 9 spell levels? Like Arcane or Cleric Spells without like derailing the feel of a druid?
3. What Prc is best for the above idea or to make the Druid feel more complete or focused in say shapeshifting, spellcasting, or melee?
4. If the Killoren suck can someone suggest a good race with a low LA like LA 1 at MAX.

[eggynack]

1. Is the Killoren race from RoW any good for them?
It seems OK. Not great. It doesn't look like there's LA, and you're not taking a wisdom or constitution penalty, so you can't go too far off course. The abilities aren't going to help as much as other things you could be doing though.

2. Is there any way the Druid can gain another set of 9 spell levels? Like Arcane or Cleric Spells without like derailing the feel of a druid?
The classic way is arcane hierophant (RotW, 108), which theurges you with a wizard. Without early entry, the way to go is probably something like druid 3/wizard 3/mystic theurge 2/arcane hierophant 10/mystic theurge 2.


3. What Prc is best for the above idea or to make the Druid feel more complete or focused in say shapeshifting, spellcasting, or melee?
Well, the three major druid prestige classes are planar shepherd (FoE, 105), moonspeaker (RoE, 143), and lion of talisid (BoED, 65). Just about any other prestige class is going to represent a net detriment to your druidic abilities. Arcane hierophant and master of many forms are decent though. Anyway, I'd probably go with moonspeaker, though you'd have to pick shifter as your race for it. You could also always go straight druid. Most druids are just druids, and it's often the best option.


4. If the Killoren suck can someone suggest a good race with a low LA like LA 1 at MAX.
My list of druid races, as it stands, goes human and strongheart halfling (FRCS, 18), for the feat, anthropomorphic bat (SS, 218) and jermalaine (MM II, 131), for the +6 wisdom (mostly the anthropomorphic bat though), and shifter (RoE, 25) and desert half-orc for the unique options they have access to. In particular, shifters get shifter druid substitution levels (RoE, 126), moonspeaker, and shifter feats, which are neat, and half-orcs get access to half-orc substitution levels (RoD, 159), which are good enough to make up for the fact that you're a half-orc. No race with any kinda LA is likely to be worth it, unless you're starting up high enough that buying off the level is easy. Also worth considering is the dragonborn template (RotD, 8), which can get you a constitution bonus, and can do so for virtually no cost on certain races. Anthro bat and desert half-orc are two of those.

Anyways, I say to you what I say to all folks. Build stuff is infinitely less important than day to day stuff, like spell choice, what you summon, what wild shape forms you're using, and even what your animal companion choice. Mostly spells though. Everything else can be a pile of crap, and your spells can make you awesome, and everything else can be a fine tuned machine of amazing, and your spell list can make you not awesome. Such is the nature of things.

[demigodus]

1. Yes. Granted, this is the druid we are talking about, so any race that doesn't actively hurt them is good for them

2. Druid 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 4 / Arcane Hierophant 10 with the natural bond feat has double 9's, and a lvl 16 druid's animal companion. Only lvl 13 wildshaping though.

3. For above idea, Arcane Hierophant. For shapeshifting, Master of Many Forms. For shapeshifting and spellcasting, Planar Shepherd. Actually, if you choose the right plane, Planar Shepherd can get you double 9's according to some interpretations. For melee, once again Master of Many Forms. Maybe finish off with Nature's Warrior or some such.

4. You can make just about anything without a penalty to wis or con work if it is LA +0. Avoiding an int penalty is preferable though.

[Macabros]

What makes the Planar Sheppard so powerful? How does it get the double 9 spell level progression?

[Ortesk]

What makes the Planar Sheppard so powerful? How does it get the double 9 spell level progression?

Planar shephard is awesome because 2 things. 1, he can make a planar bubble which has same traits as his chosen plain

2, at level 14 he can turn into a solar angel with all there SA (Which is a ton of spell like abilities and, oh yeah 20th level cleric casting. He can cast As a level 14 druid and be a cr of 24 on top of that)


Note you need the right build for the second one, but its not to hard

[Macabros]

And just how OP is it? I mean the Solar thing immediately makes me wonder about that.

[eggynack]

What makes the Planar Sheppard so powerful?
It's a class that advances all three major druid abilities, casting, wild shape, and the animal companion, and gives you a pile of stuff on top of that. Even if that were the entire situation, the planar shepherd's status as a druid+ would make it really powerful. However, it is much more than a druid+. The two major factors, at least to my knowledge, are the wild shape boost, and planar bubble. Wild shape's new found ability to grant the Ex, Su, and Sp abilities of outsiders and elementals is a thing ripe for cheese of the highest caliber, just in general. The classic example is using the plane of elemental fire, becoming an efreeti, and getting infinite wishes. As for planar bubble, there are some planes with crazy planar traits, and that is most true if we're talking about time traits. Dal Quor, for example, causes a 10:1 time dilation that can basically act as a crazy time stop effect. I'd probably avoid the class in general, because it's of the highest caliber of cheese.

[Ortesk]

And just how OP is it? I mean the Solar thing immediately makes me wonder about that.

So lets say i have 5 WS a day. I turn into a Solar 5 times, preparing only miracle. Lets assume i had 1 bonus slot. I have 20 miracles a day. 1 and a half days, +5 to each stat. I dont pay xp for this, its a SA. Next, i use my infinite ymiracles for infinite Permanent spells. Then i can just win. Im not even trying to be OP either. If i was trying, i would use it to do the dark chaos shuffle and have unlimited gold, 9th level wizard spells, Unlimited XP, ect

[Macabros]

So it gets Arcane spells not divine spells?
I am curious about the more wildshape options but I doubt I would be using it for the purposes of farming insanely powerful spells. I mean Druid is already very powerful but I like the idea of more unique wild shapes.

Anyone got a build link for the secondary 9th level spell list?

[Ortesk]

So it gets Arcane spells not divine spells?
I am curious about the more wildshape options but I doubt I would be using it for the purposes of farming insanely powerful spells. I mean Druid is already very powerful but I like the idea of more unique wild shapes.

Anyone got a build link for the secondary 9th level spell list?

No it gets only druid spells. How you get arcane spells is by farming these awesome powers. Basically this class can put you to the tier 0 realm, a few steps below Pun Pun, But strong enough you should be able to handle the pantheon fairly easy

[Ortesk]

If your wanting to just straight up be a caster with 9th level arcane and divine spells, there's easier ways

[Macabros]

I don't mind the potential, but yeah my DM will murder me if I try to break his game like that.

How would you get it the other ways?

[eggynack]

The answer is still probably arcane hierophant. However, I've gotta wonder why you actually need access to the arcane list in the first place. The druid list is pretty expansive, if you know what you're doing. Is there any gap in particular that you seek to fill with copious wizarding?

[Macabros]

I actually did not say originally Arcane spells, I said a second set of 9s and there are just some things the Wizard and Cleric lists offer that I want, not so much just one or two spells but access to options that I would like to have.

[eggynack]

Fair, but the same question still applies. The druid list isn't the deepest in the game, but it can fill most roles you can conceive of if you know where to look.

Edit: Also, even if the particular option isn't directly available, it can be easier to get those particular options onto the list than to port over a whole other list. For example, druids don't really get invisibility, but they can pick it up from the fourth level of moonspeaker.

[Ortesk]

One common methoed ends you with 3rd level bard, 9th level sorceror and cleric spells. But as eggy said a druid is a monster to begin with. If your gonna play a druid, your gonna be breaking the game most the time anyhow

[Macabros]

Ok, thanks for all the help I will just stick with normal Stock Druid.

[eggynack]

Ok, thanks for all the help I will just stick with normal Stock Druid.
Cool beans. Do note though that if there is a specific type of thing that you're looking for, there's a good chance that I'd be able to find it. It's a nifty benefit of spending a good amount of time reading through vast quantities of druid spells. Possibly all of them, by this point, though I wouldn't stake my life on it.

[Ketiara]

Planar shephard is awesome because 2 things. 1, he can make a planar bubble which has same traits as his chosen plain

2, at level 14 he can turn into a solar angel with all there SA (Which is a ton of spell like abilities and, oh yeah 20th level cleric casting. He can cast As a level 14 druid and be a cr of 24 on top of that)


Note you need the right build for the second one, but its not to hard

How can he turn into a solar at level 14?

[Ortesk]

How can he turn into a solar at level 14?

Magic item raises HD limit by 4, a graft does the same but drops all charisma skills by -6

With both your at 22 HD, which is a solar angel

[Ketiara]

Magic item raises HD limit by 4, a graft does the same but drops all charisma skills by -6

With both your at 22 HD, which is a solar angel

The Wild shape amulet maxes out at 20hd... And does it stack with a graft?

[Psyren]

Skylord is another way to get additional 9ths. It works like Mage of the Arcane Order for divine casters and lets you access most spells from the Cleric list all the way up to 9th.

But honestly, Shapechange is the only 9th most Druids need.