Shapesand and many questions.

[killem2]

I'd like to use shape sand to trap a golem, but I have questions.

For reference

Shapesand: Shapesand is a special kind of wasteland soil that is psychoreactive; it can be sculpted into any form according to your will. The new object is made of sand, but serves as a normal item of the same sort. A shapesand hammer functions just like an ordinary hammer, and a shapesand waterskin is just as watertight as an ordinary skin. Controlling shapesand is an exercise in willpower.

A DC 16 Wisdom check establishes control of a volume of sand based on the shaper’s Wisdom score:
Wisdom Score Controllable Volume
1–3 None
4–7 1-ft. cube
8–11 2-1/2-ft. cube
12–15 5-ft. cube
16–19 7-1/2-ft. cube
20–23 10-ft. cube
24+ +2-1/2 ft per 4 points of Wisdom
If your Wisdom check succeeds, you can reshape the volume of sand as you desire. Once control is established, the shape lasts as long as you remain within 100 feet of it. Thus, those with suffi cient patience and strong enough will can construct small fortresses out of shapesand, even if they must do so a few cubic feet at a time. Another character can wrest control of a shapesand item away from you by succeeding on an opposed Wisdom
check, though the winner’s Wisdom score must be high enough to shape an item the size of the one contested. For example, if two characters are attempting to control a 5-foot cube of shapesand, the challenger must not only beat his opponent’s roll, but must also have a Wisdom score of at least 12.

1. If a wall is made, is it indestructible by normal physical means?

2. If it can be broke, what is the strength check?

3. If it is broke by physical means, does the sand just fall to the ground or is it reactive to my will power and can be *for a lack of better word* levitated back into it's container?

4. If it physically isn't able to be destroyed, does this mean the Golem would have to make a wisdom check to, in the words of Sandstorm entry "wrest control" of it thus being able to tell it what to shape. Which in theory since golems are programmed, would be highly unlikely?

5.What if I don't want to carry about my 2000g worth of sand, in 20 jugs. can I carry my 240lbs of sand in a bag of holding?

6. If I can carry my sand in a bag of holding, back to #3: Does it just kind of mystically form into being, thus, by opening the bag, I can simply "will" the exact amount into my chosen form?

7. If I wanted to preform the action of making a shapesand cage WHILE in combat with said Large size golem, can I build it around it in a single action?

8. Would I generate attack of opportunities?

[unseenmage]

I'd like to use shape sand to trap a golem, but I have questions.

For reference

Shapesand: Shapesand is a special kind of wasteland soil that is psychoreactive; it can be sculpted into any form according to your will. The new object is made of sand, but serves as a normal item of the same sort. A shapesand hammer functions just like an ordinary hammer, and a shapesand waterskin is just as watertight as an ordinary skin. Controlling shapesand is an exercise in willpower.

A DC 16 Wisdom check establishes control of a volume of sand based on the shaper’s Wisdom score:
Wisdom Score Controllable Volume
1–3 None
4–7 1-ft. cube
8–11 2-1/2-ft. cube
12–15 5-ft. cube
16–19 7-1/2-ft. cube
20–23 10-ft. cube
24+ +2-1/2 ft per 4 points of Wisdom
If your Wisdom check succeeds, you can reshape the volume of sand as you desire. Once control is established, the shape lasts as long as you remain within 100 feet of it. Thus, those with suffi cient patience and strong enough will can construct small fortresses out of shapesand, even if they must do so a few cubic feet at a time. Another character can wrest control of a shapesand item away from you by succeeding on an opposed Wisdom
check, though the winner’s Wisdom score must be high enough to shape an item the size of the one contested. For example, if two characters are attempting to control a 5-foot cube of shapesand, the challenger must not only beat his opponent’s roll, but must also have a Wisdom score of at least 12.

1. If a wall is made, is it indestructible by normal physical means?

2. If it can be broke, what is the strength check?

3. If it is broke by physical means, does the sand just fall to the ground or is it reactive to my will power and can be *for a lack of better word* levitated back into it's container?

4. If it physically isn't able to be destroyed, does this mean the Golem would have to make a wisdom check to, in the words of Sandstorm entry "wrest control" of it thus being able to tell it what to shape. Which in theory since golems are programmed, would be highly unlikely?

5.What if I don't want to carry about my 2000g worth of sand, in 20 jugs. can I carry my 240lbs of sand in a bag of holding?

6. If I can carry my sand in a bag of holding, back to #3: Does it just kind of mystically form into being, thus, by opening the bag, I can simply "will" the exact amount into my chosen form?

7. If I wanted to preform the action of making a shapesand cage WHILE in combat with said Large size golem, can I build it around it in a single action?

8. Would I generate attack of opportunities?

Are you using the Alchemical Item or the PrC? I'm well versed in the Alchemical Item, the PrC might be able to do things I'm unaware of.

The rules for Shapesand got split between the PrC and the Alchemcial item entries, for your sanity and your DMs I suggest using both entries to adjudicate the use of Shapesand. In my humble opinion that's definitely the Rules-as-Intended anyway.

To my knowledge, your Wis sets the space limitation within which you can control one dose of Shapesand. For example, lets say your Wis only allows you to shape up to a 5' cube. In that case you could only make a 10' wall with multiple doses of Shapesand.

Another limiter that isn't spelled out but is right there plain as day is Weight. You just cannot make an item from a single dose of Shapesand whose weight is higher than that of the dose of Shapesand.
It's the case of a pound of feathers being equal to a pound of bricks being equal to a pound of sand. That's just all the sand you have so you don't get to make more than you have, make sense?
On the same note, no matter how small the object is that you turn one dose of Shapesand into, it will still retain it's weight.

If you make a breakable item from Shapesand and it gets broken or "destroyed" to use the game term, your DM is fully within their rights to rule that the Shapesand "item" is now broken too. By means of it's alchemical properties you altered it from sand into an object with a different Hardness and everything, then it was destroyed. It will remain destroyed.
(Str checks for bursting walls should be in the DMG, they will vary depending on what substance you have your Shapesand mimic.)

Shapesand is extremely tedious to utilize mid-combat without the PrC (to my knowledge). If you're just using the Alchemical Item then it takes a number of rounds equal to the DC of the item you're crafting.

Shaping Shapesand is an ability check, which is treated exactly like a skill check. You can take 10 or take 20 (when not in combat). By default I do not believe that ability checks provoke AoOs but you should double check the Shapesand entry just to be sure.

Handy Haversacks have their own magic that dictates how they dispense items to their user. One dose (or jug) of Shapesand is bought as and listed as one item so the Haversack should only allow you to retrieve one dose at a time regardless of how it is stored in the Haversack.

I hope this helps, if I've been unclear feel free to ask for clarifications. Shapesand can be fun, but only when everyone at the table understands it well enough that it doesn't become a pain in the butt.

[TuggyNE]

1. If a wall is made, is it indestructible by normal physical means?

No. Why would it be? Not only can the sand itself be destroyed, it can also, one supposes, be scattered and the form lost. In fact, this would probably be easier than destroying a normal object of that sort.


2. If it can be broke, what is the strength check?

Unspecified, but probably the same as a normal item of that sort, or somewhat lower.


3. If it is broke by physical means, does the sand just fall to the ground or is it reactive to my will power and can be *for a lack of better word* levitated back into it's container?

It wouldn't immediately react, and is probably unable to levitate, but you could reshape it and/or pick it up again when you have a chance.


5.What if I don't want to carry about my 2000g worth of sand, in 20 jugs. can I carry my 240lbs of sand in a bag of holding?

Technically, probably not, but there's no real reason not to.


6. If I can carry my sand in a bag of holding, back to #3: Does it just kind of mystically form into being, thus, by opening the bag, I can simply "will" the exact amount into my chosen form?

More or less.


8. Would I generate attack of opportunities?

Ability checks are "essentially" untrained skill checks, and skill checks "usually" provoke AoOs, so probably so.

[Epsilon Rose]

Are you using the Alchemical Item or the PrC? I'm well versed in the Alchemical Item, the PrC might be able to do things I'm unaware of.

The rules for Shapesand got split between the PrC and the Alchemcial item entries, for your sanity and your DMs I suggest using both entries to adjudicate the use of Shapesand. In my humble opinion that's definitely the Rules-as-Intended anyway.

To my knowledge, your Wis sets the space limitation within which you can control one dose of Shapesand. For example, lets say your Wis only allows you to shape up to a 5' cube. In that case you could only make a 10' wall with multiple doses of Shapesand.

Another limiter that isn't spelled out but is right there plain as day is Weight. You just cannot make an item from a single dose of Shapesand whose weight is higher than that of the dose of Shapesand.
It's the case of a pound of feathers being equal to a pound of bricks being equal to a pound of sand. That's just all the sand you have so you don't get to make more than you have, make sense?
On the same note, no matter how small the object is that you turn one dose of Shapesand into, it will still retain it's weight.

If you make a breakable item from Shapesand and it gets broken or "destroyed" to use the game term, your DM is fully within their rights to rule that the Shapesand "item" is now broken too. By means of it's alchemical properties you altered it from sand into an object with a different Hardness and everything, then it was destroyed. It will remain destroyed.
(Str checks for bursting walls should be in the DMG, they will vary depending on what substance you have your Shapesand mimic.)

Shapesand is extremely tedious to utilize mid-combat without the PrC (to my knowledge). If you're just using the Alchemical Item then it takes a number of rounds equal to the DC of the item you're crafting.

Shaping Shapesand is an ability check, which is treated exactly like a skill check. You can take 10 or take 20 (when not in combat). By default I do not believe that ability checks provoke AoOs but you should double check the Shapesand entry just to be sure.

Handy Haversacks have their own magic that dictates how they dispense items to their user. One dose (or jug) of Shapesand is bought as and listed as one item so the Haversack should only allow you to retrieve one dose at a time regardless of how it is stored in the Haversack.

I hope this helps, if I've been unclear feel free to ask for clarifications. Shapesand can be fun, but only when everyone at the table understands it well enough that it doesn't become a pain in the butt.

So, what I'm getting from this is, he should shape his sand into a crude blob of riverine or adamantium?

[unseenmage]

So, what I'm getting from this is, he should shape his sand into a crude blob of riverine or adamantium?

Actually yes. It's still Shapesand (and at our tables we ruled that it still looks like sand) but now it acts like the new material.

Mind you a DM worth his salt is perfectly within their rights to set the DC to shape it into Riverine ridiculously high but it can be done as Riverine is listed as a Special Material and special materials default to being non-magical.

[killem2]

I'm sticking with druid summoner, I just thought maybe my high wisdom would be able to make this stuff really really powerful.

Druid has spells that can deal with golems, just didn't want to waste spell slots :P

[Cog]

Ability checks are "essentially" untrained skill checks, and skill checks "usually" provoke AoOs, so probably so.
By that logic, rolling initiative would provoke an AoO. I suspect the magic item rules are more applicable here, which suggest this would not provoke.

[TuggyNE]

By that logic, rolling initiative would provoke an AoO. I suspect the magic item rules are more applicable here, which suggest this would not provoke.

Hmm. Devil's advocate: how would you know if initiative is supposed to provoke or not? Only time that'd trigger is if someone managed to get close enough to threaten you in the surprise round, which seems fairly unusual.

Also, which rules in magic items are applicable?