[3.5] Duskblade and Mage Armor

[IAmTehDave]

I'm looking for a way to add Mage Armor and Shield to a Duskblade's spells known without the asinine restrictions of Arcane Disciple.

"Extra Spell", by RAW, looks like it would do it. However, the FAQ says it only allows from your own class list.
(WTB Expanded Knowledge: Arcane Edition)

Alternatively: I was thinking of taking 1 level of Wizard, and spending 1 level of Abjurant Champion's +caster levels on that wizard, so that the Martial Arcanist can boost the caster level to equal BaB. That way, at 20 the CL for Wizard would be 19, the CL for Duskblade would be 18. If I go that route, and can research some spells for my spellbook, I can use Versatile Spellcaster, burn Duskblade spell slots to cast Wizard Spells. Those spells would then be cast at a CL equal to BaB - and any abjuration spells would be Extended, and any Abjuration spells <4th level would be quickened. (Spells in your spellbook are Spells Known. This works by RAW and I'm going to talk to the DM about this)

I know this isn't anywhere close to optimized, but I'm looking to make a Duskblade with some extra spells, not a Wizard/sorc with melee abilities.

The campaign it'll be in isn't an optimized campaign, and unfortunately we won't be able to go shopping from the DMG or MiC (The world isn't exactly populated with high level characters. The PCs are something of an oddity)

[Khatoblepas]

Forget Mage Armor, that spell won't hold up and you'll be left with a level 1 spell that doesn't do anything worthwhile later on. (And it's a Conjuration (Creation) spell - Abjurant Champion won't touch it)

Instead, take Arcane Preparation and get ready to cast some Sanctified Spells! Normally, a Duskblade, being a spontaineous caster can't cast sanctified spells, but Arcane Prep. allows him to prepare Sanctified spells, and he has more than enough spell slots to see him through even if he does prepare them.

Luminous Armor (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/luminous-armor--7/) is Mage Armor +1, plus an attack penalty. Not very stealthy, but very effective in combat. There's even a Greater version. What's more, these are also Abjuration spells.

Shield is... harder, but shouldn't be impossible. A one level dip in Mage of the Arcane Order should give you access to it, and Mage Armor. I'm pretty sure they have about a thousand copies of those spells, being simple first level spells. And the debt shouldn't be a problem either, what with the thousands of first level spell slots you have.

[Morphie]

Why don't you just get a Eternal Wand (MIC) with those two spells instead?
You can cast them 2 times per day, and since they are level 1 spells, it costs 820 Gp for each wand.

Or add a Ring of Theurgy (Complete Arcane, if I'm not mistaken) to the mix and then you can cast it into the ring then cast it into yourself, using your caster level instead, which effectively makes them last longer.

[IAmTehDave]

Forget Mage Armor, that spell won't hold up and you'll be left with a level 1 spell that doesn't do anything worthwhile later on. (And it's a Conjuration (Creation) spell - Abjurant Champion won't touch it)

Instead, take Arcane Preparation and get ready to cast some Sanctified Spells! Normally, a Duskblade, being a spontaineous caster can't cast sanctified spells, but Arcane Prep. allows him to prepare Sanctified spells, and he has more than enough spell slots to see him through even if he does prepare them.

Luminous Armor (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/luminous-armor--7/) is Mage Armor +1, plus an attack penalty. Not very stealthy, but very effective in combat. There's even a Greater version. What's more, these are also Abjuration spells.

Shield is... harder, but shouldn't be impossible. A one level dip in Mage of the Arcane Order should give you access to it, and Mage Armor. I'm pretty sure they have about a thousand copies of those spells, being simple first level spells. And the debt shouldn't be a problem either, what with the thousands of first level spell slots you have.

Funny...Abjurant Champion specifically calls out Mage Armor. I need to pay more attention to the spells I'm looking at, apparently. (I'm not a big spellcaster player, usually. And Mage Armor being Abjuration would make sense.) If I can swing my DM into letting me prepare a couple Sanctified Spells that'd work beautifully. Thankfully there's a Paladin and a Cleric who can wipe the ability damage. (at the end of the day when the spell finally wears off)

As far as MotAO - Probably wouldn't work for a couple reasons. (Namely: The order has to exist in the world for the class to make sense, and Shield still isn't on the Duskblade class list) But an interesting read nonetheless.

@Morphie: Note the last paragraph in the OP: I cannot shop from the MiC or DMG. It's not strictly a low-magic campaign, but there's a VERY limited selection of Magic Items available for purchase. Most of the magic items that end up in this particular DM's campaigns are from loot.

[Morphie]

@Morphie: Note the last paragraph in the OP: I cannot shop from the MiC or DMG. It's not strictly a low-magic campaign, but there's a VERY limited selection of Magic Items available for purchase. Most of the magic items that end up in this particular DM's campaigns are from loot.

Oh, I'm really sorry, didn't notice that last part. You can still try investing in UMD and use wands or scrolls with the spells, if you happen to find them on your loot.

[Darrin]

Arcane Disciple: Force Domain or Spell Domain will put mage armor on your spell list. You can only cast it 1/day, but once it's on your list, you can use scrolls/wands with mage armor.

[Khatoblepas]

As far as MotAO - Probably wouldn't work for a couple reasons. (Namely: The order has to exist in the world for the class to make sense, and Shield still isn't on the Duskblade class list) But an interesting read nonetheless.

Nothing in the class description says that the spell needs to be on your list, only that you need to call it, and that the Order has every Sorcerer\Wizard spell on it's catalog.

It, in fact, totally possible to call up Wizard spells as a Duskblade. It's be a shame if some kind of wizard order DIDN'T exist in a setting, wizards love those kinds of things, even if they only had a low level spellpool. How low level ARE these people?

[Khedrac]

Funny...Abjurant Champion specifically calls out Mage Armor. Indeed it does, but since Mage Armor isn't Abjuration the errata removed it rather than saying something like "plus mage armor".
What this mans is that unless you get access to Luminous Armor from BoED then the armor bonus from Abjurrant Champions only boosts spells that it is usually a mistake to cast (or even know). However AC is good enough without the AC boost so it's probably worth taking anyway - certainly it is for elf wizards, less sure for duskblades.

[IAmTehDave]

Nothing in the class description says that the spell needs to be on your list, only that you need to call it, and that the Order has every Sorcerer\Wizard spell on it's catalog.
It, in fact, totally possible to call up Wizard spells as a Duskblade. It's be a shame if some kind of wizard order DIDN'T exist in a setting, wizards love those kinds of things, even if they only had a low level spellpool. How low level ARE these people?

Our current characters are level 7. And are some of the highest level-from class people in the region, if not the setting. (IIRC, the DM said something to the effect of "there's only 5 NPCs with more class levels than you guys" - and they're the BBEG + co)

Haven't gotten a chance to ask the DM about it, but I'm not particularly hopeful. Actually starting to think I might just take 2 levels of Abjurant Champion to get free extend/swift Resist Energy and be done with the class. That is unless the DM lets me get Luminous Armor and I snag Arcane Prep...


Indeed it does, but since Mage Armor isn't Abjuration the errata removed it rather than saying something like "plus mage armor".
What this mans is that unless you get access to Luminous Armor from BoED then the armor bonus from Abjurrant Champions only boosts spells that it is usually a mistake to cast (or even know). However AC is good enough without the AC boost so it's probably worth taking anyway - certainly it is for elf wizards, less sure for duskblades.

I guess they don't want Wizards/sorcerers with Psion-level AC purely from casting? (Augments FTW)

I'm curious what spells are actually boosted by Abjurant Champion now. It looks like only Shield and (both) Luminous Armor(s).

In all, it looks like I'll just be sticking to a mithril fullplate or something.
(edit: And gogo Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Can't do many special abilities, but goddammit I can put some enhancements in.)

[Darrin]

I'm curious what spells are actually boosted by Abjurant Champion now. It looks like only Shield and (both) Luminous Armor(s).


Ectoplasmic Armor (Spell Compendium) is the only other spell I can find, but it's only useful against incorporeal creatures.

[IAmTehDave]

Ectoplasmic Armor (Spell Compendium) is the only other spell I can find, but it's only useful against incorporeal creatures.

So Abjurant Champion has a class ability that sounds awesome at first glance, but only applies to 4 spells in 3.5, one of which is useless, (ectoplasmic armor) and 2 of the others being hard to attain. (if your DM requires a character to "achieve exalted status" to prepare them)

If it added to any abjuration spells bonus to AC, or any spell's Armor or Shield AC bonus, it would make more sense.

Time to look at other options for playing around with endgame for the Duskblade... 5 levels of Wild Soul would get me Baleful Polymorph as an available spell to cast. That might be fun >_<

[Darrin]

So Abjurant Champion has a class ability that sounds awesome at first glance, but only applies to 4 spells in 3.5, one of which is useless, (ectoplasmic armor) and 2 of the others being hard to attain.


Even worse, rather than fix it with errata so it worked how the designer intended, the errata made it even more useless (by removing the possibilty of using it with mage armor entirely).



Time to look at other options for playing around with endgame for the Duskblade...

You don't really go into Abjurant Champion for class abilities, you go into it for 5/5 caster levels and +5 BAB (although Swift Abjuration is quite nifty). That there are some class abilities that might occasionally be useful is just kinda frosting on the cake.

[IAmTehDave]

Even worse, rather than fix it with errata so it worked how the designer intended, the errata made it even more useless (by removing the possibilty of using it with mage armor entirely).

Yeah... game designers seem (to me) to have a weird way of "balancing" fun in their games. (Not limited to D&D) Seems that letting it apply to Mage Armor would:
1) Make it more interesting as an alternative to magic armor.
2) Actually keep the fluff and crunch together.

instead, they opted for:
Let's hobble the class!


You don't really go into Abjurant Champion for class abilities, you go into it for 5/5 caster levels and +5 BAB (although Swift Abjuration is quite nifty). That there are some class abilities that might occasionally be useful is just kinda frosting on the cake.

That...actually makes perfect sense, for a gish coming from the caster side. I guess since Duskblade is already a gish, it's just not going to get much out of this PrC. (Except, as my plan has changed to, a 2 level dip to cast Resist Energy always quickened/extended. If I felt like wasting a 3rd level slot on Protection from Energy, it might make sense. Dispelling Touch as a swift action doesn't work, since you're better off Channeling it anyway. And we've now rounded off the Duskblade abjuration spells this PrC could affect. 2 level dip it is.)

Now slightly Off-topic: Are there any decent PrCs for a full Duskblade to go into after 15, or would finishing out Duskblade 18/AbjChamp 2 probably be the way to go? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

[A_S]

Ectoplasmic Armor (Spell Compendium) is the only other spell I can find, but it's only useful against incorporeal creatures.

I believe it works on Deflect, which is on the Duskblade list. Only works vs. One attack though.

*edit* Nope, deflection bonus >.< .

[IAmTehDave]

I believe it works on Deflect, which is on the Duskblade list. Only works vs. One attack though.

*edit* Nope, deflection bonus >.< .

Actually, Lesser Deflect is a deflection bonus.

Deflect is a Shield bonus. Which would qualify for the Abjurant Armor bonus. But it doesn't stack with an actual Shield. (Which I would be using a magic shield since I can't figure out how to add Shield as a spell known to the class.)