[3.5] BBEG Optimization Help

[00dlez]

I am starting a campaign that will feature an orc cult that is trying to summon/raise/bring forth/whatever 6 orc deities for their final war on the Forgotten Realms. The basic premise is that 6 sects, one devoted to each of the 6 orc deities featured in Faiths and Pantheons (pg 148) is seeking to bring forth their deity in an effort to destroy all civilization and live out their little orc dreams as servants to their gods incarnate. Cute right?

The exact story is still developing, but what I hope to accomplish here is to generate some mid-high level BBEGs that will be the head of each sect. The BBEGs should be orcs or tanarukks (NOT half-orcs) and should reflect the powers, abilities and style that a champion of their sect's deity should have.

Suggestions of feats and interesting PrCs are just as good as complete builds (okay, not JUST as good, but still helpful :smallsmile:) - Also feel free to toss out cool minions or underlings for each sect as well. ECL on BBEGs should aim for around 12-16, but going over or under isn't a big deal.

Briefly, the 6 deities are (alphabetical order):
Bahgtru: god of incredible strength
Grummsh: god of orcs in general (likely to be the first among equals in the cult)
Ilneval: orc god of war/strategy
Luthic: god of orc females/tribe safety/fertility (in this instance, I have played her up more as a "breed the perfect soldier" god)
Shargaas: orc god oh assasins/darkness/thieves
Yurtrus: orc god of death/disease

[aeauseth]

Whoa, you have a lot going on there. You might start by researching all the prestige classes for Orc's. I'm actually not sure if there are any Orc only prestige classes.

The War Hulk (http://dndtools.eu/classes/war-hulk/) prc might work for Bahgtru/Strength.

[00dlez]

Whoa, you have a lot going on there. You might start by researching all the prestige classes for Orc's. I'm actually not sure if there are any Orc only prestige classes.

The War Hulk (http://dndtools.eu/classes/war-hulk/) prc might work for Bahgtru/Strength.

Most of the PrCs that I have seen for orcs are more for minions (things like Orc Scout) or for generals/leaders rather than combat powers (like orc warlord)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Ilneval: orc god of war/strategy
Maybe some Warmind levels? Though not Orc-specific, it's a class that's pretty focused on tactics.

Shargaas: orc god oh assasins/darkness/thievesRe-flavoured Teflammar Shadowlord?

Yurtrus: orc god of death/diseaseIf you manage to get up to ECL 15ish, I'd suggest Blighter for early access to 9th level spells (and fits thematically).

[SoraWolf7]

Bahgtru: god of incredible strength


I agree, War Hulk sounds fine.



Grummsh: god of orcs in general (likely to be the first among equals in the cult)

Blessed of Grummsh seems appropriate, especially since it gives a buff to orcs at the top of the class progression.



Ilneval: orc god of war/strategy

Sounds like a Ranger or an Orc who tends to use planning and traps over brute strength to win, so maybe a Combat Trapsmith. I guess any good Orc who can turn a battle to their favor.



Luthic: god of orc females/tribe safety/fertility (in this instance, I have played her up more as a "breed the perfect soldier" god)

I think this one is a kind of varied look, maybe pull an amazon tribe where the women are the more common fighters and only mate with the strongest men?



Shargaas: orc god oh assasins/darkness/thieves

Seems kinda obvious to go assassin, so maybe Battledancer/Shadowdancer for that deceptive idea.



Yurtrus: orc god of death/disease
Sounds like a Cancer Mage to me. No better embodiment of death and disease than being able to spread one at will.

[00dlez]

Maybe some Warmind levels? Though not Orc-specific, it's a class that's pretty focused on tactics.
Meh - psionics aren't really used in the setting



Re-flavoured Teflammar Shadowlord?
This could work famously - using darkness/obscuring mist has been a tactic in the past and this could progress with that same tactic



I agree, War Hulk sounds fine.
This would be great if they were fighting clustered units, but I doubt that the PCs will group up nicely to make it effective... at least not more than once...



Blessed of Grummsh seems appropriate, especially since it gives a buff to orcs at the top of the class progression.
Can't argue with the choice, it's just obvious - Not that obivous is a bad thing with the campaign flavor... so maybe



Sounds like a Ranger or an Orc who tends to use planning and traps over brute strength to win, so maybe a Combat Trapsmith. I guess any good Orc who can turn a battle to their favor.
Maybe a hanful of orc scouts (the FR PrC) in a maze... laying traps as they run about...



Seems kinda obvious to go assassin, so maybe Battledancer/Shadowdancer for that deceptive idea.
I think shadow dancer is on the table, with an eye towards Teflammar Shadowlord



Sounds like a Cancer Mage to me. No better embodiment of death and disease than being able to spread one at will.Interesting take... I'll have to mull this over... This guy comes to mind...http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120304185617/lotr/images/b/bd/Gothmog_-_Third_Age.png

[GreenETC]

Ilneval: orc god of war/strategy
I'd actually see this better represented by something like a battlefield control built Wizard/Cleric or something, based on the fact that Orcs are generally good at bringing a lot of numbers to bear. Perhaps go for an Orog (Ogre/Orc, not the Underdark one, though that might be a problem in Faerun) for the imposing and have him be a Gish who leads the battlefield while also plastering spells on things he considers to be dangerous during a fight. Plus it could give his group tension with the "perfect soldier" group for the impurity in his blood, for extra flavor stuff.

I could also see him as a Water Orc leading a group of other Water Orcs on tactical strikes using their swimming prowess. The idea would be from JaronK's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270721) thread on a giant Orc army, which has a bunch of ideas for this sort of thing.

[Magesmiley]

Ilneval: orc god of war/strategy


Another interesting take might be to have this leader (and his immediate aides) be focused on abilities and effects that boost the abilities of their minions to the point that the cannon fodder orc soldiers are difficult to deal with. And have them repeatedly throw the overpowered minions at the PCs to wear them down.

Despite it being a bit underpowered, a Marshall might make a well-flavored match for this one. Give him a bard, cleric and wizard as aides and you've got a fairly potent mix of abilities to work with.

[00dlez]

Another interesting take might be to have this leader (and his immediate aides) be focused on abilities and effects that boost the abilities of their minions to the point that the cannon fodder orc soldiers are difficult to deal with. And have them repeatedly throw the overpowered minions at the PCs to wear them down.


I've already run a few combats and made pretty good use of a simple Mass Aid spell on a handful of CR 1/2 Orcs - an extra 1d8+5 HP and some combat buffs goes a long way of these guys

[00dlez]

I'd actually see this better represented by something like a battlefield control built Wizard/Cleric or something, based on the fact that Orcs are generally good at bringing a lot of numbers to bear. Perhaps go for an Orog (Ogre/Orc, not the Underdark one, though that might be a problem in Faerun) for the imposing and have him be a Gish who leads the battlefield while also plastering spells on things he considers to be dangerous during a fight. Plus it could give his group tension with the "perfect soldier" group for the impurity in his blood, for extra flavor stuff.

I might be able to work with that - though had initially thought that the Tanarukk would be used as the "perfect warrior" template



I could also see him as a Water Orc leading a group of other Water Orcs on tactical strikes using their swimming prowess. The idea would be from JaronK's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270721) thread on a giant Orc army, which has a bunch of ideas for this sort of thing.
That's a great idea - much of the game takes place in and around Waterdeep, so some menacing SEAL Team Orcs running around the docks could be awesome...

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Been looking closely at the Teflammar Shadowlord for the orc assassins, and it actually looks like it could be quite nasty. By taking Rog and scout levels and the Swift Ambusher feat, one can accomplish +4d6 SA and +2Skirmish/+2AC by the time you qualify for the PrC at 8th level.

The problem with the build is the amount of +0 BAB levels, by level 13 (end of TF progression), the builds BAB is only +8/+3... I've considered using some sort of touch attack to help them be more effective, but and very much open to suggestions.

One question I do have is if the Shadow Jump and Shadow Pounce abilities qualify for skirmish damage (I teleported 10 ft., does that count as "moving" 10 ft?)