Mobile archer build?

[Invader]

Is there a prescribed archery build that maximizes movement between shots?

[Flickerdart]

Is there a prescribed archery build that maximizes movement between shots?
Between shots? No. But a Scout-based archer is very interested in getting movement between full attacks.

[Invader]

Between shots? No. But a Scout-based archer is very interested in getting movement between full attacks.

Anything specific to look for or just use scout as the base class?

[Piggy Knowles]

Swift Hunter is the usual go-to, primarily Scout/Ranger, often with a cloistered cleric dip (for Travel Devotion) or a monk dip (for Sparring Dummy 10' steps) to get off both movement and a full attack every round.

Darrin has a handful of other neat Swift Hunter builds that are worth looking into as well. EDIT: After looking over them again (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16094742&postcount=12), most of them are melee rather than ranged builds, although the net and trident one is still pretty fun.

[Flickerdart]

Anything specific to look for or just use scout as the base class?
Scout is the base class because its Skirmish gives you a use for all that movement. Use this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) for accessible ways of free movement.

[Ravens_cry]

A mounted archer can also be quite mobile, as they can take a full attack and move by default.

[Invader]

What's the easiest way to get a full attack and a full move in the same round minus using a mount?

[ArcturusV]

As obvious as it sounds if mentioned? Fighter Dip/Ranger/Scout. Get mounted combat, mounted archery off your fighter bonus feats. Archery feats off the Ranger and Scout. Because nothing quite says "mobile archer" to me as a pegasus rider raining down arrows. But that's just me.

There is the "Shot on the Run" feat if you want to literally fire while moving, for example between cover locations. But really that's about the only use of that ability that I've ever been able to figure out. If you just happen to be on a battlefield which has hard cover that you want to run between for some reason while still getting ranged attacks. But I'd avoid it just because that one scenario is very rare.

Compared to the more useful (But still might see people complaining about not getting to use it) mounted archery set.

[KoboldMasteRace]

A mounted archer can also be quite mobile, as they can take a full attack and move by default.

Though that requires so many feats to work that you effectively need to dip Fighter for the build to start working before mid-to-high levels. So you get approximately ew in useful class features compared to different-concept well-built characters.

[Averis Vol]

As obvious as it sounds if mentioned? Fighter Dip/Ranger/Scout. Get mounted combat, mounted archery off your fighter bonus feats. Archery feats off the Ranger and Scout. Because nothing quite says "mobile archer" to me as a pegasus rider raining down arrows. But that's just me.

There is the "Shot on the Run" feat if you want to literally fire while moving, for example between cover locations. But really that's about the only use of that ability that I've ever been able to figure out. If you just happen to be on a battlefield which has hard cover that you want to run between for some reason while still getting ranged attacks. But I'd avoid it just because that one scenario is very rare.

Compared to the more useful (But still might see people complaining about not getting to use it) mounted archery set.

While this would be my preferred, I'm sad to say that Erreta specifically says skirmish does not work while mounted. It's stupid and makes little sense, which is why I normally ignore that rule (along with the invisible blade errata), but for RAW sake it's there.

[ArcturusV]

Learn something new every day... huh. Guess that will be on my list on "General House Rules I use" then. Wasn't aware they smacked it with Errata. Then again I never did keep up with errata for DnD, generally too much of a hassle to find.

[Invader]

While we're at it, is there a substitute for penetrating strike that a scout can get?

[Ravens_cry]

Though that requires so many feats to work that you effectively need to dip Fighter for the build to start working before mid-to-high levels. So you get approximately ew in useful class features compared to different-concept well-built characters.
Not as much as you might think. 2 feats, maybe 3 if you don't get a mount as a class feature, and Mounted Archery is only if you plan on having your mount frequently double move.

[Cog]

While we're at it, is there a substitute for penetrating strike that a scout can get?
Swift Hunter. Multiclass with ranger, progress Favored Enemy and Skirmish, and your Skirmish will punch through the immunities of your Favored Enemies.

[Averis Vol]

Learn something new every day... huh. Guess that will be on my list on "General House Rules I use" then. Wasn't aware they smacked it with Errata. Then again I never did keep up with errata for DnD, generally too much of a hassle to find.

I can't blame you. I like how they saw that archers could move and full attack for their few extra d6's and were like "hurrr, nerf"

then they saw that you could utilise feint and not only get 1 attack a round and they just couldn't stand that, so womp. nerf bat.

but spells are cool yo. :smalltongue:

[Piggy Knowles]

What's the easiest way to get a full attack and a full move in the same round minus using a mount?

1. Take one level in (cloistered) cleric. Pick the Travel domain, and trade it away for Travel Devotion from Complete Champion. This allows you to move up to your speed as a swift action.

2. Just take the Travel Devotion feat without a cleric dip. However, that will only let you move as a swift action for one minute a day. You'll have to take the feat multiple times to use it in multiple encounters. It's possible if you really don't want to spend the level, but it's usually better to just take the dip.

3. This is not a full move, but you can take one or two levels in monk, purchase a Sparring Dummy of the Master (30,000gp, Arms & Equipment Guide), and train with it for a week. Now, when you would take a 5' step, you can take a 10' step instead.

[Darrin]

Darrin has a handful of other neat Swift Hunter builds that are worth looking into as well. EDIT: After looking over them again (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16094742&postcount=12), most of them are melee rather than ranged builds, although the net and trident one is still pretty fun.

I *do* have ranged versions.

Typical Swift Hunter Archer: The "typical" Swift Hunter build is usually Scout 4/Ranger 16 or Scout 5/Ranger 15, depending mostly on whether you want Evasion early-ish (Scout 5) or late-ish (Ranger 9). I prefer Scout 4/Ranger 16, although here I've thrown in a couple levels of Highland Stalker to get another +1d6 skirmish damage.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 4. Swap Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 5.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6+4.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.


Full BAB Swift Hunter Archer: Here's a trick to get Swift Hunter without taking any levels of Scout: use the Simple Fighter from Unearthed Arcana to get 1d6 Sneak Attack, and then Highland Stalker 4 to get the prereqs for Swift Hunter. Doesn't really "click" until at least ECL 9, though.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Ranger 3. Feat: Precise Shot. Bonus: Endurance
4) Ranger 4.
5) Simple Fighter. Sneak Attack 1d6
6) H.Stalker 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2)
7) H.Stalker 2. Skirmish 1d6
8) H.Stalker 3.
9) H.Stalker 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Imp. Rapid Shot or Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+3.
13) H.Stalker 5.
14) H.Stalker 6. Skirmish 4d6AC+3
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Imp. Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3), Bonus: Imp. Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6


Archery 10d6 Skirmish: There are a few PrCs that can advance skirmish damage faster than Scout/Ranger. This build uses Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 + Improved Skirmish to get up to 10d6 skirmish damage, roughly on par with Rogue 20's 10d6 sneak attack. I finished it off with a level of Spellsword so it gets 6th level Sorcerer casting, but you can replace that with something else if you prefer: Barbarian 1 (Unearthed Arcana for Whirling Frenzy ACF) or Soldier of Light 1 (Deities & Demigods, provides Turn Undead for powering Travel Devotion).

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Dragon Devotee 1.
8) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 3d6AC+1/5d6AC+3
9) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Manyshot. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
10) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6AC+1/6d6AC+3
11) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 5d6AC+1/7d6AC+3
12) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Gr. Manyshot. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
13) Unseen Seer 3.
14) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 6d6AC+1/8d6AC+3
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot.
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 7d6AC+1/9d6AC+3
17) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
18) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2)
19) Ranger 5. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4
20) Spellsword 1.


Crossbow Sniper 10d6 Skirmish: This build is a bit more feat-intensive, so instead of Spellsword we slip in a level of Fighter and swap out our Ranger casting for the Champion of the Wild ACF to pick up Manyshot early. I think this build also works with Lesser Drow and Savage Progression Drow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a): take PB Shot at 3rd and Hand Crossbow Focus (counts as Rapid Reload + Weapon Focus) as your Fighter 1 bonus feat.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Rapid Reload. Skirmish 1d6
4) Fighter 1. Bonus: Weapon Focus: Light Crossbow.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Undead again or Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and detect undead).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: hunter's eye (PHBII spell)
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4

[Emperor Tippy]

Factotum 8/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 6/ Psion (Telepath) 5/ X 1

Psion get's you most of the useful Ranger and Assassin archery spells as powers. Invisible Fist gets you one round in three invisibility that doesn't go away when you attack. Decisive Strike doubles your damage against a given target for the rest of the round. Martial Monk gets you 3 Fighter feats without having to meet prerequisites (even if you DM doesn't allow Epic feats that is still very nice) and Int to AC along with +20 feet to your movement speed.

Get the Balance on the Sky stance for constant Air Walk.

Factotum 8 means Cunning Surge and potential ten or so attacks in the surprise round that are each at full AB and that are each getting +Int to Attack and Damage.

Be a Necropolitan Gray Elf and use the Ritual of Shadow Walking from Lords of Darkness.

Psion also gets you Telepathy for Mindsight.

Standard practice against one enemy should be to go Invisible as a swift action via Invisible Fist, use Cunning Surge for a standard action, move action (using Tumble to not provoke) to get within melee range (or use Shadow Walk), use Decisive Strike as a full attack, use Cunning Surge to get a standard action to move back out of range, and then spend the rest of your IP on Cunning Surge + Cunning Insight (for both attack and damage) to unload double damage attacks onto your foe until he dies. If you have multiple foes, drop the Decisive Strike bit and just go to town with Cunning Surge.

You are a highly mobile Archer who is also a first rate scout and assassin and is capable of dropping somewhere around 750 points of HP damage on a single foe in the surprise round or drop respectable amounts of damage on a whole host of enemies.

[Vertharrad]

While this would be my preferred, I'm sad to say that Erreta specifically says skirmish does not work while mounted. It's stupid and makes little sense, which is why I normally ignore that rule (along with the invisible blade errata), but for RAW sake it's there.

Actually this makes alot of sense, skirmish cues of your movement not your mounts. If other classes have to conform to this so does Scout they're no different on horse back than any other character/npc.

[ArcturusV]

Does it really make sense? I mean when I think of the skirmish ability, and what it represents in game, it sounds like it is using mobility to find weak spots in the enemy and evade their attacks more effectively (almost exactly says that if I remember correctly). Or at least that seems to be the thought process behind it. I don't see how riding a creature really negates that. I mean I can understand it with other movement based class features. Like a monk's unarmored speed, why would that have any effect on the horse you ride?

[Vertharrad]

Does it really make sense? I mean when I think of the skirmish ability, and what it represents in game, it sounds like it is using mobility to find weak spots in the enemy and evade their attacks more effectively (almost exactly says that if I remember correctly). Or at least that seems to be the thought process behind it. I don't see how riding a creature really negates that. I mean I can understand it with other movement based class features. Like a monk's unarmored speed, why would that have any effect on the horse you ride?

Your mobility...big difference.
She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. Looks very straight forward to me, saya nothing about a mount. At 3rd level, a scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as the scout has moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of her next turn. Very straight forward.

[lsfreak]

Your mobility...big difference.
She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. Looks very straight forward to me, saya nothing about a mount. At 3rd level, a scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as the scout has moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of her next turn. Very straight forward.

There's two different ways to read it. One is that the scout must move (be at a different place than before), one is that the scout must move (undertake the action of moving). The first allows the scout to be moved by an outside force and still get skirmish, the second does no. [Linguistically, "the scout moved" is ambiguous as to whether the scout is an agent, or the scout is a patient with an unmentioned agent, similar to how "the window broke" has an unmentioned actor who did the breaking].

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the reading that allows a mount to trigger skirmish would also allow someone to bullrush you with a readied action to trigger skirmish. :smallcool:

EDIT: My preferred method of getting a simple, mobile archer is just scout 4/cloistered cleric 1/ranger 15. Grab Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion with the cleric domains, then be sure to get Swift Hunter (obviously), Improved Skirmish, Rapid Shot, and a Splitting bow. Without getting Travel Devotion, you probably need to work towards Greater Multishot, which allows you to get skirmish on each shot. There might be a way of getting movement between each shot, but off the top of my head, it would be rather complicated - Tippy's build is simpler than the mess I had in mind.

[Vertharrad]

There's two different ways to read it. One is that the scout must move (be at a different place than before), one is that the scout must move (undertake the action of moving). The first allows the scout to be moved by an outside force and still get skirmish, the second does no. [Linguistically, "the scout moved" is ambiguous as to whether the scout is an agent, or the scout is a patient with an unmentioned agent, similar to how "the window broke" has an unmentioned actor who did the breaking].

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the reading that allows a mount to trigger skirmish would also allow someone to bullrush you with a readied action to trigger skirmish. :smallcool:

EDIT: My preferred method of getting a simple, mobile archer is just scout 4/cloistered cleric 1/ranger 15. Grab Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion with the cleric domains, then be sure to get Swift Hunter (obviously), Improved Skirmish, Rapid Shot, and a Splitting bow. Without getting Travel Devotion, you probably need to work towards Greater Multishot, which allows you to get skirmish on each shot. There might be a way of getting movement between each shot, but off the top of my head, it would be rather complicated - Tippy's build is simpler than the mess I had in mind.

1) Now were seeing eye to eye.
2) Your build is more streamlined, simple, and maybe more intuitive. Switching out half a dozen things gets way too complicated. And you don't need cleric to get Travel Devotion(even though that would get you more uses by way of TU).

[Averis Vol]

Your mobility...big difference.
She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. Looks very straight forward to me, saya nothing about a mount. At 3rd level, a scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as the scout has moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of her next turn. Very straight forward.

See, yea, I don't get this. In both cases (you on foot and you on a mount) there is no doubt that you are moving, as you are not in the same spot that you started. The only way I could see your interpretation making sense is if skirmish is foot powered, and that just sounds ridiculous.

Obviously your way is what the designers intended when they completely skipped over mounted combat and they simply weren't happy that scouts could move and full attack with skirmish, so they nixed because their idea of OP and a lot of others varied immensely.

[lsfreak]

@Vertharrad:
1) I'm actually of the opinion that the scout doesn't have to do the moving. Teleporting, mounts, etc should all trigger it... readied-action bullrushing is simply a weird/silly unintended consequence. But I admit it's ambiguous even without the errata.
2) I was referring to Tippy's build being simpler in terms of moving between each attack, though I had a moment of stupid and forgot that it didn't actually let you move between attacks (except burning a standard action to move and why would you do that?). The scout/cleric/ranger one doesn't allow that; what I had in mind without actually statting out how it would work involved some combination of factotum, Travel Devotion, binder, shadowpouncing, and Deformity (tall), and doesn't actually move between attacks but gets multiple full attacks per round, and is so all-over-the-place it probably wouldn't be very effective anyways.

Come to think of it though, if you actually wanted movement between attacks, psywarrior (for hustle) and factotum (for extra standards) would be able to pull off move-attack-move-attack with (greater) multishot. But it takes a long time to come into play and you've spent so many levels on being able to do it your damage likely isn't worth mentioning.

[ArcturusV]

Well that or for simplicity's sake Shot on the Run would do that. But it's not a good feat and has some pretty annoying feat taxes. So your idea is better in just about every way.

[Vertharrad]

@Vertharrad:
1) I'm actually of the opinion that the scout doesn't have to do the moving. Teleporting, mounts, etc should all trigger it... readied-action bullrushing is simply a weird/silly unintended consequence. But I admit it's ambiguous even without the errata.
2) I was referring to Tippy's build being simpler in terms of moving between each attack, though I had a moment of stupid and forgot that it didn't actually let you move between attacks (except burning a standard action to move and why would you do that?). The scout/cleric/ranger one doesn't allow that; what I had in mind without actually statting out how it would work involved some combination of factotum, Travel Devotion, binder, shadowpouncing, and Deformity (tall), and doesn't actually move between attacks but gets multiple full attacks per round, and is so all-over-the-place it probably wouldn't be very effective anyways.

Come to think of it though, if you actually wanted movement between attacks, psywarrior (for hustle) and factotum (for extra standards) would be able to pull off move-attack-move-attack with (greater) multishot. But it takes a long time to come into play and you've spent so many levels on being able to do it your damage likely isn't worth mentioning.

So why is the character a scout instead of the mount who is doing all the work? That being said I might be persuade to agree with mounts, but if your gonna add everything else that includes bullrushing. Only way to be fair. And still make sense.

[Slipperychicken]

Though that requires so many feats to work that you effectively need to dip Fighter for the build to start working before mid-to-high levels.

No it doesn't. Literally all you need is Ride skill and a mount. Any character can make a ranged full attack without penalty while his mount moves up to its speed.

Edit:
If you really want your mount to be tanky (not strictly necessary, as DMs rarely target them anyway), then you might take Wild Cohort, assuming you didn't already have it as a class feature. Any more than that is not only overkill, but cuts too deeply into your archery feat chain. Even the feat Mounted Combat isn't really necessary once it's hit points are scaling with level.

[Darrin]

No it doesn't. Literally all you need is Ride skill and a mount. Any character can full attack without penalty while his mount moves up to its speed.

Not so. PHB p. 157:

"If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."

That being said, the Mounted Combat rules are borked. Near as I can tell, they were just never thoroughly playtested in the entire 3.x era. You have to kinda kludge together a couple house rules to make them work.

For example, Ride-By-Attack is a huge steaming pile of fail: when mounted, "you" cannot charge unless you get off the mount, your mount is the one that's charging. The charge rules also require your mount to move to the closest square where your mount can attack... which if you've got a horse + lance vs. medium-sized target, you can no longer attack because your target is inside your reach. Then Ride-By-Attack insists you continue moving in a straight line... but your target is now most likely blocking your movement, which means the original charge was illegal to begin with.

As far as full attacks go, the Cavalier gets Full Mounted Attack at 6th and Halfling Outrider gets it at 8th. Mounted archers can also make full attacks with ranged weapons, and a Warlock can use Eldritch Glaive while mounted.

However, I am still baffled that no one at WotC ever tried to tell the designers, "I direct my mount to charge as a free action, and then I delay my turn until after my mount gets there." I can imagine an argument for why that wouldn't work, but... seriously, this never came up?

[Piggy Knowles]

Darrin, that's for melee. For ranged the rules are as follows:

"You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally."

[Slipperychicken]

Not so. PHB p. 157:

"If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."


I meant ranged full attacks, but didn't edit that in until after you started writing your post.

[Darrin]

I meant ranged full attacks, but didn't edit that in until after you started writing your post.

Blarg. Sorry! The whole mounted thing is one of my pet peeves, and I launched into a rant without remembering that we were talking pretty exclusively about archery.

[Slipperychicken]

Blarg. Sorry! The whole mounted thing is one of my pet peeves, and I launched into a rant without remembering that we were talking pretty exclusively about archery.

Don't sweat it. It was partly my fault too.

[Vortenger]

On the note that you can't skirmish while mounted:

Mounted Cossacks? The mongol hordes? Hundreds of other examples of mounted light skirmishing cavalries throughout the world?

History, shmistory...

[Ravens_cry]

On the note that you can't skirmish while mounted:

Mounted Cossacks? The mongol hordes? Hundreds of other examples of mounted light skirmishing cavalries throughout the world?

History, shmistory...
They 'skirmished' the allowable way, with archers and light lancers using ride by attack.

[lsfreak]

So why is the character a scout instead of the mount who is doing all the work?

Why are you playing the scout and not the bow that's doing all the work? :smallconfused:

[Flickerdart]

Why are you playing the scout and not the bow that's doing all the work? :smallconfused:
Why are you using a bow, and not the arrow that does all the work? :smallconfused:

[Ravens_cry]

Why are you using a bow, and not the arrow that does all the work? :smallconfused:
Why are you playing the arrow and not the the kinetic energy that is doing all the work?:smallconfused:

[ArcturusV]

Why are you playing the kinetic energy, and not the potential energy that allows all the work?

[Averis Vol]

Why are you playing the kinetic energy, and not the potential energy that allows all the work?

YOU FORGOT THE SMILEY! THE CHAIN IS BROKEN!

[Ravens_cry]

Why are you playing the kinetic energy, and not the potential energy that allows all the work?
Because that would be just silly.:smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

Though that requires so many feats to work that you effectively need to dip Fighter for the build to start working before mid-to-high levels. So you get approximately ew in useful class features compared to different-concept well-built characters.
A pile of feats is the way to get the most damage though. It's a trade off and you can dip for the desired amount of skills and what not at the expense of damage. And really you only need 1 feat for a good mount: leadership. Even the mounted archery feat is unimportant if you limit your mount to single moves, which is still way faster than par given how fast most fancy mounts are.