How can I help my little dwarf cleric be a better tank as a 5th level wizard

[RPGaddict28]

I just need him to have higher AC, that stacks with armor, and a better reflex save.

And a link from Sir Dwarf himself http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=645678

[AnonymousPepper]

The gold dwarf cleric himself here. That's my sheet.

Yeah, I'm looking to see how I might take advantage of the wizard's abilities to make myself a better tank.

Part of that will come from items, because I have learned how to abuse Guidance of the Avatar on diplo rolls combined with a rogue with downright crazy diplo skills anyway to sell loot, but most of it, I'm wondering how RPG here might bolster my very much lackluster reflex save and perhaps meaninfully increase my AC in such a way that it stacks with my armor and shield. Preferably deflection, because touch AC is always nice, but natural armor or something else wouldn't hurt either.

[Faily]

At 5th level, we're up at 3rd level spells and alas only 2 feats so far. I noticed your Domains are Fire and Protection... have you considered going into a prestige class that will grant you extra domain? In a rather low-powered campaign recently, I had a Dwarf Cleric with Earth domain, and selected Earth's Warding (feat, Races of Stone. Requires the Earth Sense feat) to increase Natural Armor with turning attempts I will never use anyway.


At the top of my head, you have spells like; Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil, Nightshield (will give resistance bonus to your saves), Bear's Endurance (while you might not have as high AC as the Wizard, you can certainly withstand all the blows that would crush him, right?), Elation, Channeled Divine Shield, Conviction, etc... to buff your AC, durability and ability scores.

As for your Reflex saves, it's one of the drawbacks of being a Cleric most of the time. However, also remember that most things that require Reflex saves are energy-based spells, so a Resist Energy (2nd level, 3rd level for the Mass-version) can take care of most of your problems there. Will and Fortitude are by far the most important saves, and as a Dwarf Cleric, you're scoffing at those most of the time.

[AnonymousPepper]

Well, next level I'm almost certainly getting Divine Metamagic (I already have a metamagic feat, so why not?), so I don't think I'll have many turning attempts to spare, really.

Anyway. I know what I can do personally, but we're wondering what the wizard himself can do now and later on in the campaign to help.

He's planning on going Wizard6/Incantatrix5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil7/Archmage2 (and then with the epic levels, finish Incantatrix, then Archmage, and then Olin Gisir, and then if, God help us, we're still playing by THAT point, War Weaver). If that helps any. Unless the DM lets him retrain feats, in which case he might be able to grab the usual Wiz5 progression; he screwed up his build.

[Firechanter]

Step 1: make the Dwarf spiky, with shield spikes, armour spikes, spiked gauntlet, blade boots, whatever you can get and the DM allows. Never mind nonproficiency.
Step 2: enchant all those spikes as Defending Weapons. Costs 8k apiece so it will take a few levels.
Step 3: Incantatrix takes Chain Spell.
Step 4: Chain GMW on all weapons. Profit.

[Safety Sword]

Well, next level I'm almost certainly getting Divine Metamagic (I already have a metamagic feat, so why not?), so I don't think I'll have many turning attempts to spare, really.


Note that if you have a Metamagic feat you can only get Divine Metamagic for that feat. So looking at your sheet you'll be able to get Divine Metamagic: Maximize Spell.

Not quite the best, but I guess it beats actually having to use higher level slots for maximize.

There's always Extra Turning feat to boost your number of turn attempts as well.

[Gwendol]

Cloak of resistance will bring the ref save up a notch.

Prayer is a good spell for saves, other than that I'd stack shield of faith and protection from evil.

[Sith_Happens]

As for Wizard buffs, Haste is always a great place to start.

[Sayt]

Dwarven Wizards can take the Runesmith PRC, which gives them casting in anything up to and including mountain plate (Not that I suggest mountain plate).

[hymer]

As for Wizard buffs, Haste is always a great place to start.

Enlarge Person helps too with getting in the way. If the armour is not fully dex'ed out, you could throw Cat's Grace on there.
Greater Magic Weapon is a third level if I remember correctly. Protection from Evil gives a deflection bonus to AC. Those two the cleric can cast himself, though.

[Faily]

Conviction is one of the better spells to increase your saves for Cleric, imo. The mass variant is only 3rd level too. Of course, investing in a decent Cloak of Resistance is almost always worth the money.

As a cleric, you will later on have access to Righteous Might, which will increase your size and give you natural armor. It's a common staple for battlefield-type clerics who prefer to wade into melee.

If you want to focus on buffing, I've usually combined these for my battle-clerics:
Prayer, Recitation, Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, Aid, Divine Agility (or Grace), Shield of Faith, Conviction, Channeled Divine Shield.

[AnonymousPepper]

What about the wizard just using the simple first level Shield spell?

That's only effectively a +1 because of my +2 buckler, but the +1 is still nice, the magic missile deflection is a good added bonus, and it's just a first level spell so it's not like it's too much to spare. Also I don't need to take a penalty for using a buckler and attacking, I can just simply ignore my buckler while the spell's in effect.

If I really felt like it, I could sell the +2 buckler and just buy a wand of Shield too (or even an eternal wand of it; I don't think my chances of running into three encounters in a day in which I'd really need it would be that high, and most of our encounters are relatively short so caster level isn't a big deal)- which would be more cost effective in the long run. If that sounds like a good idea to you guys. I can stack UMD for that purpose if need be, between skill books, learning from other party members, and point allocation.

[Icewraith]

Shield is personal, so he can't cast it on you, and it's a wizard spell so you will have issues using wands of it.

Edit: If you're worried about AC and reflex saves, Haste is definitely your friend. Plus you get an extra attack (assuming you can afford a -2 to your full attack) and movement speed.

The other thing you can do as a Wizard is make yourself LESS of a target. Mirror image, invisibility, silent image a tree in front of you before combat... it's all good. Remember you can summon monsters and buff your party while invisible as long as you personally aren't making attack rolls or forcing saving throws.

[AnonymousPepper]

Shield is personal, so he can't cast it on you, and it's a wizard spell so you will have issues using wands of it.

Oh, he can't just cast it on me? Even if he goes Incantatrix with all those crazy metamagic abilities he gets?

Also, I mean, I know that, but I was planning on hitting up UMD anyway to pick up the ability to use arcane wands at some point. If I did that, would that be worth dropping the buckler?

[Icewraith]

I wouldn't recommend dropping the buckler. It's "always on" unlike the spell and there's only a +1 difference anyways. If you expect to fight a bunch of low-level sorcerers or something you might worry a bit more about magic missile, but aside from that if a spellcaster is hitting you with magic missile he either doesn't have anything else to hit you with or doesn't consider you a threat and is wasting time- you already won or you're already screwed.

Once you get higher level a +1 heavy fortification buckler is a superb investment.

Relying on Incantatrix to make you ridiculous will probably result in nerfs or bans. It's also not really worth his effort cheesing up a Shield spell just so you can have +1 AC. Consider having him save a scroll of mage armor in case you fight incorporeal creatures like Wraiths however.

Edit: Also, to a certain extent there are diminishing returns on buffing AC. If you do it too much your DM will just up the monsters' attack bonuses so they can hit you, which will cause the rest of your party to suffer.

Double edit: Also, it's more efficient to stack the various +1 bonuses you can get from magic items before you get +2s. +1 ring of protection, +1 cloak of resistance, +1 amulet of natural armor, +1 any armor, +1 shield will go much farther than +2 anything while only being slightly more expensive. If you don't have time to buff or your buffs get dispelled you still have the bonuses from your items to rely on. You don't want to spend the first round of combat buffing yourselves (with the possible exception of haste, it's that good), you want to spend the first round of combat incapacitating the enemy.

[AnonymousPepper]

Okay, point taken about the buckler. What about spontaneously casting Greater Luminous Armor (because lolsanctifiedspells) on myself if things really hit the fan? That's not much more against ranged (+1), but if I'm in melee that's an effective +5 AC in exchange for temporarily being slightly less capable at hitting things. Or is there a downside to that idea that I'm not seeing?

[Icewraith]

A good trick if you're fighting something like power attacking Giants (eat low AC targets for breakfast) or two-weapon fighting (lol to hit penalties) Drow. Keep it up your sleeve until you need it though, if you walk around with it always up your DM will probably adapt like I mentioned above.

Also you'll look ridiculous.

[Sith_Happens]

Also note that you don't pay the sacrifice cost until the duration ends.

[AnonymousPepper]

How exactly does the sacrifice work anyway? I'm actually a first-time Cleric so I'm not particularly sure how that mechanic works.

[Rastapopolos]

Im not sure higher AC is the key here, consider that in order to have a 50% chance of AC negating an attack it needs to be more than the attackers to-hit +10, also monsters have real good attack bonuses. Now consider the blur spell, if the wizard casts that on you 20% of all attacks at you will miss also it applies to touch attacks. There is also Glitterdust if all your enemys are blind then everyone in your party has a 50% miss chance (if they can find you at all) also your rogues will love you because they will be able to sneak attack with impunity.

[Sith_Happens]

How exactly does the sacrifice work anyway? I'm actually a first-time Cleric so I'm not particularly sure how that mechanic works.

You take the indicated ability damage (or other effect) when the spell ends. The full rules are near the beginning of the chapter.

[AnonymousPepper]

You take the indicated ability damage (or other effect) when the spell ends. The full rules are near the beginning of the chapter.

Can you repair it with a Restoration spell or something?

[Sith_Happens]

Can you repair it with a Restoration spell or something?

Yes, all the normal means of healing ability damage apply.

[AnonymousPepper]

Actually. Would that be Restoration or Lesser Restoration to heal that, out of curiosity?

[Sith_Happens]

Actually. Would that be Restoration or Lesser Restoration to heal that, out of curiosity?

Lesser, though it might take two depending on your rolls. You can use regular Restoration instead, but that costs money.

[AnonymousPepper]

Lesser, though it might take two depending on your rolls. You can use regular Restoration instead, but that costs money.

Hmm, okay.

Would it be worthwhile to invest in a Wand of Lesser Restoration (or possibly an Eternal one, via a paladin)? That way I don't need to worry about having to reserve - and thereby burn - two slots every time I think there's a chance I might want to cast GLA.

[Yuki Akuma]

Hmm, okay.

Would it be worthwhile to invest in a Wand of Lesser Restoration (or possibly an Eternal one, via a paladin)? That way I don't need to worry about having to reserve - and thereby burn - two slots every time I think there's a chance I might want to cast GLA.

It is always worthwhile to invest in wands of spells you see yourself casting a lot but don't see yourself wasting spell slots on.

On that note, get a Wand of Lesser Vigor, too.

[AnonymousPepper]

It is always worthwhile to invest in wands of spells you see yourself casting a lot but don't see yourself wasting spell slots on.

On that note, get a Wand of Lesser Vigor, too.

I dunno if a Wand of Lessor Vigor would be worth it for my cleric, given that I've already got plenty of healing capabilities at this level thanks to Mastery of Day and Night.

[nedz]

Out of combat healing at level 5+

Lesser Vigour = 15 HP
Maximised CLW = 13 HP

Tactically it's better to use your spell slots to take down, or at least shut down, the enemy rather than patching up their damage. Use Wands for Out of combat healing, spell slots for combat.

[Faily]

Also, there comes a point where the value of high AC means less, as most enemies will either have spellcasting capabilities, or are big monsters who just got ridiculous attack-bonuses due to size and strength.

High AC is good and all, but it's not the most important thing.

And yes, as stated above, focus more on using your spells for combat, and heal with wands outside of combat (though I can understand if you want to heal someone to prevent them from dying in battle). Cleric lacks in blasting at 5th level, but you got some decent possibilities with either buffing or controlling the battlefield, and spells like Spiritual Weapon gives you good action-economy at low level.