Estimating LA: Ability Score Edition

[unseenmage]

The Savage Species book suggests using the Ability Score Equivalencies (DMG173) to estimate Level Adjustments.
I'm fuzzy on how this is supposed to be implemented, could someone explain it better than the SS?

Is this process different for characters than it is for races?


There are two character whose Level Adjustments and CRs I'm having trouble with. (Shared DMing so I need to know both LA and CR. Sometimes they're played, sometimes they're NPC-ed)

The Clergyman: Incarnate Construct except +14 Str, +4 Dex, and small size.
The Bad Seed: Incarnate construct except +22 Str, +6 Dex, and small size.

[unseenmage]

So seriously, the Homebrew Forum has been of no help whatsoever.
Folks over here are just so much less judgmental somehow.
Edit: Hey they helped. And just before you folks did, too. Thanks all.
Lesson here, be less reactionary, on both sides of a discussion. And point out mistakes instead of generalizing your constructive criticism. Telling someone there is a mistake isn't as helpful or constructive as pointing it out specifically.

Thanks guys, thanks for being awesome at advice giving.
That said, I really could use some help discerning an appropriate LA for the characters mentioned above and the template stacked race I'm reposting here.

To clarify, I didn't make this up homebrew this, this is just a nebulous application of the Effigy, Sacred Guardian, and Incarnate Construct templates to any 1 HD up to +2 LA creature. I did tack on some fluff for fun, though it's been pointed out that the Elan's fluff is better. I am okay with that.

This "race" is the result of some in-game developements that I and my DM are running with. We just don't know what the Level Adjustment should be for it. Thanks regardless Playground.


Esgic Race Template

Esgic Template Race
Each new Esgic is brought into the world from the mysterious ritual chambers beneath their city fully formed.
They are actually created as Effigies (CAr), imbued with holy power as Sacred Guardians (DL:BoK), and finally given new life as flesh and blood creatures with Incarnate construct (SS).
Sometimes the infusion of divine energy remains after their final transformation in the form of the Celestial Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm).
Esgic who are dissatisfied with their form often partake of the ritual to become Dragonborn or Spellscale (RotD) so Esgic communities often have a dragonkin district.
Esgic infancy is mental only and lasts for about one year on average.

Personality: Often quiet and composed Esgic sometimes act as though they have forever to accomplish a task. Other than that their personalities tend toward that of the base creatures racial predilections.

Physical Description: New Esgic always resemble an actual person in the world only with odd, gear shaped, fleshy or boney protrusions or growths around their joints and muscles. Esgic often have skin and features which are metallic in color and texture. Most are coppery.

Alignment: Usually neutral.

Lands: Esgic communities are always started from next to nothing in areas where their grand Council deems it safe to construct their underground creation chambers. If one of their communities is threatened the Council takes steps to ensure that the creation chambers are utterly destroyed or safeguarded to keep the secrets of Esgic creation (and potential subjugation) out of enemy hands.

Religion: In Faerun Gond is the god the Esgic worship primarily. Though many tend towards the worship of whatever god their base creature worshipped.

Language: Esgic speak only the language of the base creature and have no bonus languages.

==Player Characters== Abilities: All Esgic have the ability score adjustments of +8 Str, +2 Dex, +0 Con, +0 Int, +4 Wis, and -6 Cha.
Type: Medium and smaller Esgic are Humanoids while large and larger Esgic are Giants.
Size: Esgic share the same size as the base creature.
Speed: Small and smaller Esgic have a speed of 20 feet. Medium Esgic have a speed of 30 feet, while Large and larger Esgic have a speed of 40 feet.
Racial abilities: A Esgic can be modeled after corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin of one HD and up to a +2 Level Adjustment. Their HD changes according to their new type (and is replaced if they acquire class levels) and their Level Adjustment is replaced as listed below.
Racial abilities: Medium size and smaller Esgic retain up to +3 Natural Armor. Large and larger Esgic retain up to +9 Natural Armor.
Racial abilities: A new Esgic loses all Special Qualities and Special Attacks of the base race. This also means they will lose all racial traits, weapon familiarity, and preferred classes of the base creature.
Racial abilities: Esgic have no skill points or feats unless they gain class levels.
Automatic languages: Esgic speak one language of the base creature.
Bonus Languages: None, Esgic have no bonus languages.
Favored Class: The preferred class of Esgics is Fighter.
Aging: The starting age for an Esgic is the adult age for the base creature, otherwise they age normally.
Level Adjustment: ???


Edit: I had fun taking the simple application of templates and tacking some racial fluff onto it. the process even revealed some angles of how this "race" would fit into a gameworld that I hadn't considered.

[TuggyNE]

I have to admit, after going over and reading the thread in homebrew, that I tend to agree with Just to Browse and Djinn in Tonic: this race, as it now stands, unnecessarily violates a great many rules/guidelines/conventions of PC races, which makes any evaluation of its LA unusually difficult.

Fixed ability scores: A race with Con ∅ has this problem to some extent, but I'm not aware of any races with not one, not two, but fully four fixed abilities that cannot be affected by point buy/rolls; the result is that any PC that doesn't care about those ability scores will be vastly effective, but any PC that does care about them will be completely unable to change them at all. Naturally, this introduces an enormous gulf between effective LA for different builds, and most builds are going to have serious trouble with the odd ability score distribution.
Template-y blanks: Races proper do not have a section marked "fill in with whatever base you wish", which makes this extremely odd, since some or all of the listed abilities and even potentially fluff traits might need to be modified accordingly. This makes LA adjustment a bit swingier, since, as formatted, there's a single LA for all bases, whatever the base LA would have been (or, hypothetically, even if there were none at all).
Strange type: Switching between Humanoid and Giant type is another templateism that has no place in a finished race; just stat up an instance or so of each and give them slightly different race names and a single fixed type each.
Cha of 1: This deserves a separate place, because a playable race with an ability score of 1 is extremely iffy, as it can be taken out of commission trivially by any of a number of relatively low-level poisons (ungol dust), powers (ego whip), and probably spells and diseases, not to mention feats (Maiming Strike). Also, this imposes severe RP requirements that many players will struggle with; having such a crippled sense of self is non-trivial to understand.

All that said, I think I can estimate the LA.
Level Adjustment: ± ⅟ↀ☁☻♡♭➓

Seriously though, I have no clue, because it's far too generalized and far too unusual to make any kind of reliable comparisons.

A final note in passing: if you wish folks to make a judgment call on something tricky like a complex race's LA, be prepared for their judgments. One might even say "for them to be judgmental".

[OldTrees1]

All Esgic have the ability score adjustments of +8 Str, +2 Dex, Con becomes 10, Int becomes 10, Wis becomes 15, and Cha becomes 1.

Possible stat arrays:
26 point buy: Str 24, Con 10, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 1
26 point buy: Str 26, Con 10, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 1
32 point buy: Str 26, Con 10, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 1

Base your LA assessment off those

[unseenmage]

I have to admit, after going over and reading the thread in homebrew, that I tend to agree with Just to Browse and Djinn in Tonic: this race, as it now stands, unnecessarily violates a great many rules/guidelines/conventions of PC races, which makes any evaluation of its LA unusually difficult.

Fixed ability scores: A race with Con ∅ has this problem to some extent, but I'm not aware of any races with not one, not two, but fully four fixed abilities that cannot be affected by point buy/rolls; the result is that any PC that doesn't care about those ability scores will be vastly effective, but any PC that does care about them will be completely unable to change them at all. Naturally, this introduces an enormous gulf between effective LA for different builds, and most builds are going to have serious trouble with the odd ability score distribution.
Template-y blanks: Races proper do not have a section marked "fill in with whatever base you wish", which makes this extremely odd, since some or all of the listed abilities and even potentially fluff traits might need to be modified accordingly. This makes LA adjustment a bit swingier, since, as formatted, there's a single LA for all bases, whatever the base LA would have been (or, hypothetically, even if there were none at all).
Strange type: Switching between Humanoid and Giant type is another templateism that has no place in a finished race; just stat up an instance or so of each and give them slightly different race names and a single fixed type each.
Cha of 1: This deserves a separate place, because a playable race with an ability score of 1 is extremely iffy, as it can be taken out of commission trivially by any of a number of relatively low-level poisons (ungol dust), powers (ego whip), and probably spells and diseases, not to mention feats (Maiming Strike). Also, this imposes severe RP requirements that many players will struggle with; having such a crippled sense of self is non-trivial to understand.

All that said, I think I can estimate the LA.
Level Adjustment: ± ⅟ↀ☁☻♡♭➓

Seriously though, I have no clue, because it's far too generalized and far too unusual to make any kind of reliable comparisons.

A final note in passing: if you wish folks to make a judgment call on something tricky like a complex race's LA, be prepared for their judgments. One might even say "for them to be judgmental".

Djinn and Tonic did adress the exact same things you did a few moments ago. Thank you both for the effort.
Turns out that I had made a couple of mistakes which you both brought to my attention. Thank you both, again.

Funny thing though, over there i got derision, while over here I got immediate usefulness. My comparison of the two boards still stands in my mind.

Thanks again for being awesome at giving advice.