What class to play!?

[pilvento]

So i joined a new gruop in a pbp game and i wanted to play a spellthief, so i made the character, lvl 5.

We are 6 players so far, the problem is that after the dm said that the game would be mostly about investigation, problems solving and roleplaying, i was even more convinced about my choice, but 2 of the other 5 players decided that it would be cool to be rogues so now we are 3 players stuck on the same role, and since its their first game they wont change their minds.

The other pcs are a cleric, a wizard and a knight, so now im not sure about what to play or if i should stick with the spellthief.

The dm also made a homebrew race, drowlike, +2dex-2cha darkness 1/day darkvision 120 +2hide and move. And i wanted to give it a try, but that -2cha its a bit limiting for bards, beguilers, etc. And also he wanted some pcs to be nobles and other just servants/slaves, i got the slave.

What would you play or do in my situation. ???

[Spore]

6 players missing a charisma-character in a city environment SCREAMS bard to me. Are you forced to pick that race? (Also Drow are typically Dex/Cha +2 Con -2.)

[Red Fel]

So i joined a new gruop in a pbp game and i wanted to play a spellthief, so i made the character, lvl 5.

We are 6 players so far, the problem is that after the dm said that the game would be mostly about investigation, problems solving and roleplaying, i was even more convinced about my choice, but 2 of the other 5 players decided that it would be cool to be rogues so now we are 3 players stuck on the same role, and since its their first game they wont change their minds.

The other pcs are a cleric, a wizard and a knight, so now im not sure about what to play or if i should stick with the spellthief.

The dm also made a homebrew race, drowlike, +2dex-2cha darkness 1/day darkvision 120 +2hide and move. And i wanted to give it a try, but that -2cha its a bit limiting for bards, beguilers, etc. And also he wanted some pcs to be nobles and other just servants/slaves, i got the slave.

What would you play or do in my situation. ???

Well, what is it about Spellthief that you like? Is it the spells? The Sneak Attack? The ability to snatch spells and such?

If you like your class, keep it. Mere Rogues cannot do what you do, anyway. Develop a niche for yourself as the spell-related Rogue.

Alternatively, if what you like is the feature list, consider any of a number of classes with similar features. Want to hold onto the spells? There are plenty of spellcasting classes from which to choose. Sneak attack? You can get those too.

Ultimately, it boils down to three questions.

1: What do you want to play?
2: Is it allowed?
3: Can you play it without ruining everyone else's fun?

If the answers to 2 and 3 are yes, then do it!

[IdleMuse]

Seconding the 'don't stress, play what you want' attitude; what will make your characters fun and unique is how you roleplay them, not their mechanical class.

[pilvento]

I just reliced i beguiler works with int, not cha. So now im into spellthief 1 / beguiler 4 ...

I do second the play for your fun but i just cant picture it when the knights ask for one of us to sneak up a place or disable a trap or open a lock and half of the team rises their hands.

[Nettlekid]

I expect this'll get echoed, but a great social/intrigue class is the Factotum. Since you have all skills you can max out the social skills, and a couple others with good enough Int. Hide/Move Silently is great for stealth, of course, and Sleight of Hand opens up a lot of options (I've recently become smitten with the Master Pickpocket feat from City of Stormreach that lets you steal ANYTHING an adjacent creature has on their person that isn't held in hand. I think that includes pants). If you went straight Factotum 5, you'd nab Opportunistic Piety, which will let you help out with healing duties alongside the Cleric and more importantly let you pretend to be a Cleric to the common masses. Getting Int to your Str and Dex checks means that you'll have great skills all around. If you do go a stealth route, Darkstalker is definitely handy. And since your other party members are quite ostentatious, stealth might be the way to go.

I'm sure you could do fine with the drow-ish race, since that Dex will be handy. If you want to be an absolutely amazing Dex-skill user, though, I might suggest Changeling. Taking the Rogue Changeling substitution level at level 1 gets you (10+Int)*4 skill points and the ability to take 10 on the best social skills. One level of Marshal can grant you the ability to add Cha to any one kind of stat-based check, which I suggest adding to Dex. Getting Dex, Int, and Cha to all your Dex-based checks means that those you don't heavily invest in will still be decent, and those you DO invest in will be exceptional. It also gives you a free Skill Focus: Diplomacy, which can be used much later down the line as the prereq to Exemplar. If you want to be a really good scout, then once you have five levels of Factotum (because 8 is really good, so aim for that, though frankly 5 will do) take a level in Mindbender (gotta be nongood, but True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral is pretty fun to play this as) to get Telepathy, and then take the Mindsight feat to get a radar. That's quite good, and between Mindsight and Darkstalker you'll be able to know exactly what's going on around you while no one else notices you.

[JaronK]

Heck with it, everybody go stealth and play D&D like it's a spec ops game. It's actually a lot of fun.

If you're doing the whole Spellthief 1/Beguiler 4 thing, don't forget the Master Spelltheif feat.

JaronK

[Red Fel]

I just reliced i beguiler works with int, not cha. So now im into spellthief 1 / beguiler 4 ...

I do second the play for your fun but i just cant picture it when the knights ask for one of us to sneak up a place or disable a trap or open a lock and half of the team rises their hands.

Sneaking and picking locks are simply aspects of what a Rogue (or Spellthief) can do. And there's nothing to say you can't specialize.

One Rogue may build his character around Hide, Move Silently, and Sneak Attack. He becomes the scout, the deadly shadow on the battlefield, the mobile eyes and ears of the party.

Another may specialize in picking locks, disarming traps, stealing small objects from hard-to-reach places. He becomes Fingers, the King of Pickpockets and Duke of Thievery, a cutpurse without peer.

Another may be more of the "dashing rogue" archetype. He studies Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive. He is a master of deceit, the ultimate con man, a man who could talk you out of your home, and your daughter out of her- well, you know.

And then you have the arcane thief. Like the Spellthief. He sees stealing physical objects as an exercise for amateurs. His desired prey isn't the trust of the unsuspecting, nor the pockets of the unwary - it's the power of magic that he desires, and he will snatch it away from those unable to keep it safe from his prying fingers.

Your build - Spellthief/Beguiler - shares many similarities with Rogues. But it also has some profound differences. I challenge any single-class Rogue to cast a spell without UMD. Can't do it. It's not their bailiwick. Revel in your differences, don't dwell on the similarities.

As IdleMuse pointed out, despite the mechanical similarities, it becomes a question of what you do with the mechanics. It's how you play, not what you play.

All that said: If you honestly feel redundant, to such a degree that the character is no longer fun, play something else. What is it you want to play? What do you want to be doing? All you've told us so far is that you play a Spellthief/Beguiler, that your party has Rogues in it, and that you feel redundant.

Ignore the party. Start with you. In simple words: What do you want to play?

[pilvento]

Factotum was discarded by the dm before we even started... But im more and more convinced about the beguiler now.

@JaronK. we once played a full spec ops in a dungeon crawl. An spellthief/assassin, a swifthunter, a rogue/paladin of tyrani/marshal/dread comando, and a bard/archivist.

The bard inspired us using an obscure feat so only us could hear his chant, we all had telepaty, darkvision and overland flight, no sound was made at that dungeon... and all lvl 10. amazingly fun. Not sure this group can pull that of.

[Nettlekid]

Factotum was discarded by the dm before we even started... But im more and more convinced about the beguiler now.


Jeez, mention that so people don't waste time writing about it!

[pilvento]

@Red Fel

I want to play what you just described, the thief who is above the others, the one who comprehends information and magic is more important than gold.

Also since im a servant/slave I work as an assistant for the party wizard, we made the backstory together. Thats why I want to keep a similar archetipe but use diferent mechanics than the others.

[Red Fel]

@Red Fel

I want to play what you just described, the thief who is above the others, the one who comprehends information and magic is more important than gold.

Also since im a servant/slave I work as an assistant for the party wizard, we made the backstory together. Thats why I want to keep a similar archetipe but use diferent mechanics than the others.

Then it sounds like you're exactly where you need to be. Be the Spellthief, with an emphasis on the Spell part of the name. The others can't compete with that. And your unique class abilities will let you do things that even the Wizard might find challenging. You can occupy a very special role in that regard, and more importantly, you're playing what you want to.

Let the other Rogues skulk in the shadows. You know who you are.

[Socratov]

6 players missing a charisma-character in a city environment SCREAMS bard to me. Are you forced to pick that race? (Also Drow are typically Dex/Cha +2 Con -2.)

bard, or if you are really stuck with -2 cha, go factotum, you can do anything, and you can do it well (except for casting, you only dabble in that)

[nedz]

I just reliced i beguiler works with int, not cha. So now im into spellthief 1 / beguiler 4 ...

I do second the play for your fun but i just cant picture it when the knights ask for one of us to sneak up a place or disable a trap or open a lock and half of the team rises their hands.

Let me finish that build for you.
Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10
Master Spellthief is your level 6 feat.

[pilvento]

Let me finish that build for you.
Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10
Master Spellthief is your level 6 feat.

how about?

Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 1 / Mindbender 1 / Unseen Seer X ?

feats.
flaw Darkstalker
1 Deepening Darkness
3 Shadow Weave Magic
6 Master spellthief
9 Mindsight

@red fel. Im even more motivated now, thanks. Ill let them do the dirty work, they will call me when they need a "knock"

[Gwendol]

Wicked! Sounds like a great game ahead of you!

[Madwand99]

Looks like a great build. Remember to take the Mindsight feat if you are going Mindbender. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye is also great.

[pilvento]

Dam, mindsight is sick. Hope the game lasts that long...

[Ansem]

6 players missing a charisma-character in a city environment SCREAMS bard to me. Are you forced to pick that race? (Also Drow are typically Dex/Cha +2 Con -2.)

Sure, let him pick the worst PHB class in existance.
But a class with CHA as main stat does seem like a good option.
Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Marshal (NEVER MORE THAN 1 LEVEL!!!!) dipping into Spirit Shaman.

[nedz]

Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 1 / Mindbender 1 / Unseen Seer X ?

feats.
flaw Darkstalker
1 Deepening Darkness
3 Shadow Weave Magic
6 Master spellthief
9 Mindsight


You only take Mindbender for Mindsight :smallwink:

Consider
Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 1 / Mindbender 1 / Divine Oracle 2 / Unseen Seer X ?
This expands your spell list and gives you Evasion, but will cost you a feat.
Add in Arcane Disciple (Travel) for flight, Dim Door and Teleport.

[anacalgion]

Sure, let him pick the worst PHB class in existance.
But a class with CHA as main stat does seem like a good option.
Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Marshal (NEVER MORE THAN 1 LEVEL!!!!) dipping into Spirit Shaman.

Am I misreading this, or are you calling bard the worst PHB class in existence?

[The Dodr Dragon]

In my opinion I'm going to have to say the ranger is the 'worst' class from the PHB.
It is really narrow-minded in what you can do without the help of other books.
Sorry if this derails the thread, I just like bards hehe

[Waker]

Since you seem to want to focus on the spell over the thief aspect, have you considered the Trickster ACF from dragon 353? You lose some skills, trapfinding and Sneak Attack dice, but you get the ability to cast spells right away (as opposed to level 4) from a combination of the Bard and Sorc/Wizard spell list. Not stupendous, but still rather decent.

[pilvento]

te ACF was my first choice, but i will need a high cha to pull that off