OOTS #930 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Dragonus45]

That was a surprise. :smallwink:

[Silva Stormrage]

I did not see that coming :smalltongue: Still that is a surprisingly good plan for Elan.

Of course Julio Scoundral's death is almost assured now but hopefully this will turn the tied of battle in the OOTS's favor

[Bulldog Psion]

I'm speechless. :smalleek: Julio Scoundrel, here? So that was Elan's secret plan? Well, it looks like we got several things resolved simultaneously here. We now know what the secret plan was, and it fits the information we were given. We also know whether Julio was going to show up once again. And it looks like the Mechane's shadow may be just what the doctor ordered for Durk Malackssen.

Of course, there are still questions left here.

Who is going to die? Tarquin, Julio, or both?
If Julio lives, will he join the Order?
Which hints were there that we missed?

Prediction:
We just saw the means whereby the Order is going to reach the Northern Continent without a teleport: the Mechane.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I did not see that coming

Much agreed.

Grey Wolf

[Smolder]

Wow... I wasn't expecting a Deus Ex Mechane
(edit: just a joke, nothing to see here!)

... I really didn't believe the forum predictions on this one...

... I guess this is the part where the mentor dies...

[Aelyn]

Fricken' knew it.

[Incom]

Feels like the pace of updates is increasing, which is always nice.

also rip in peace julio

[Raunchel]

Yay! Julio to save the day!

[Cisturn]

Oh my gosh. That was unexpected.

[Thokk_Smash]

YES! Best returning plot hook yet!

I liked how Tarquin seems to be slipping even more in his anger. "WE ARE DOING IT AGAIN!" is just great to read, in a way.

[Dragonus45]

I did not see that coming :smalltongue: Still that is a surprisingly good plan for Elan.

Of course Julio Scoundral's death is almost assured now but hopefully this will turn the tied of battle in the OOTS's favor

Really, i remember someone making the prediction a few strips back and i figured it was going to be coming since. Like Elan said, there were a ton of hints.

[ranagrande]

Scoundrel fight!

[Vargtass]

Wonderful!
(backs away, pointing to Yoham's quote in sig before people remember the name of the airship ...)

[Seerow]

Wow never would have called that one.

[North_Ranger]

I'm just gonna go and say WOHOO! JULIO SCOUNDRÉL IS BACK!

[Godzilla]

Can't say I'm surprised. One of my favorite characters.

[tmacdevitt]

Love it. Now bring on the mom

Also note the rare shadow in the strip, and a certain vampire eyeing it.

[Shale]

Oh my gods, THE CRAZY PEOPLE WERE RIGHT.

[Prospekt]

I genuinely did not see that coming. I just... this is great. This is gonna be so good :smallbiggrin:

Also, well, there was Elan's plan!

[Cikomyr]

Didn't saw it coming at all...

JULIO!!! NO!!!!! :smalleek:

[Uniqueorn]

Of course, he needed Durkon for the sending!

[Hiram]

I'm pretty sure somebody (not me) called this in the last thread.

I suppose this airship is sufficient to allow Durkon to cross the sea on their way to the next gate?

[RMS Oceanic]

Huh, thought I'd have to listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPJE4l6j-hg). But this is more appropriate! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LHSlC_My8) :smallbiggrin:

And look, the Mechane's shadow can even save Durkon!

[The Real Lee]

Dang it, Julio Scoundrel is going to die dramatically then Elan is going to swear vengeance. I don't want him to die! He's so dreamy!

[Norin Warstone]

Wow....just wow. Completely floored over here. Great comic, Rich!

[AstralFire]

Oh my gods, THE CRAZY PEOPLE WERE RIGHT.

I'm glad I never ridiculed the Julio Scoundrel theory.

But I sure as hell didn't expect it.

The Mechane is blocking the sun!

[Stabbey]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

OH MY GOSH.

That...that is perfect.

And please, you "mentor's gotta die" people--stop jinxing it! :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Julio Scoundrel! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, he's probably doomed. But in a cool way!

[Haleth]

So that's why Tarquin said he'd been "pun-dueled" before.

[infomatic]

Durkon's got his eye on that shadow …

[Mercutio]

I predict either a stalemate forcing Tarquin to retreat, or Julio dying. Either way, I look forward to reading :)

[Shale]

And that's what Elan needed Durkon for -- not a marriage, not a resurrection, not divine intervention. Sending.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ha! Okay, that's a good one! And I guess we see where Durkula's headed next.

So, who wants to start arranging Julio's funeral plans?

[mhsmith]

Awesome! Didn't see it at all, but it's a great twist!

[Nimin]

Elan's missing his wound in the third-to-last panel.

[Shining Wrath]

Everyone who said "Julio to the rescue" or "Elan's plan pays off" now achieves EPIC WIN OF THE INTERNET.

Did NOT see that coming. Kudos to those who did.

And Durkon is smoldering but not burning. Awaiting explanation as to why - maybe the setting sun, maybe he did get his spell off.

[Xelbiuj]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeees!

[shamgar001]

This was the best. I haven't gotten this excited over a plot twist in a long time, and I've gotten pretty excited over some of them.

[Thokk_Smash]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?

I'm wondering that, too. Maybe he's got something up his sleeve to stave it off, or figures that dying heroically allowing Elan and co to escape would be a good final legacy to die on.

Sorta like Tarquin's plan to die as a king, but Good GuyTM style.

[Sharp-kun]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?
Because narrative demands it! He'll fight Tarquin and die, however in doing so he'll give the Order a chance to escape.

Tarquin killing him will give Elan the motivation he needs.

[Shale]

And Durkon is smoldering but not burning. Awaiting explanation as to why - maybe the setting sun, maybe he did get his spell off.

Round's not over -- gotta love the "talking is a free action" rule.

[CrispyCriminal]

WWWWHHHHAAAAAT?!!

It actually happened?!

[Spoomeister]

First thought: Lame.
Second thought: Laaaaaaaaaaaame.
Third, and first actual constructive thought: "A ton of hints"? Crap. Welp, there goes my lunch break (*browse, browse, browse the archives of strips for foreshadowing*)

[hamishspence]

Awesome. Scoundrel and the Mechane are back. Hopefully for him, Scoundrel's prediction won't come to pass this time round.

[Bulldog Psion]

The Mechane simultaneously solves the dwarf in the sun problem and the how to get to the next gate without a wizard who can teleport problem. :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

Heh. Good call on the Julio idea, guys. Please kick General Overrated's ass, you scoundrel you.

I also have a theory that Julio and his crew were hired as mercenaries (they were mentioned to have participated in at least 1 war in SS&DT) to dethrone Tarquin's first empire, swooned his second wife, and then spared Tarquin when he saw that he had a child. I wonder if that'll be true.

[raymundo]

So he probably needed Durkon for the plan to have him Send to Julio..

Sadly, I find this turn of events dreadful and stupid. Oh well

[XicoFelipe]

Funny, I was just playing Final Fantasy...

[AstralFire]

I'm wondering that, too. Maybe he's got something up his sleeve to stave it off, or figures that dying heroically allowing Elan and co to escape would be a good final legacy to die on.

Sorta like Tarquin's plan to die as a king, but Good GuyTM style.

Durkon has the material components for a resurrection spell left.

Julio may have a score to settle with Tarquin.

And the Mechane is blocking the sun, hahaha!

[Sloanzilla]

Even after it has happened, I'm still willing to ridicule the Julio arriving theory.

When did Durkon cast the sending? Right when they entered the canyon?

[lunar2]

wow, first page?


also, i was so far from seeing this coming, i'd forgotten he existed!

edit: nvm. too many ninjas.

[Agnostik]

:belkar: I look forward to two old men fighting to death for my amusement.

[Porthos]

Mechane!!!!:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

[Ridureyu]

AWESOME!

'Course, with Tarquin's "until you learn" speech, dramtically-speaking, that could have been Elan's Start of Darkness. Y'know, randomly stabbing his father in the eye repeatedly and wearing his head for a hat.

But what happened is much awesomer!

[Shining Wrath]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?

Ever read "The Illiad"? Sometimes a hero's gotta do what a hero's gotta do.

Which makes Elan (in some sense) Patroclus. Probably not in the boy-toy sense.

[RMS Oceanic]

Even after it has happened, I'm still willing to ridicule the Julio arriving theory.

When did Durkon cast the sending? Right when they entered the canyon?

Right before the first panel, I think. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html)

[Shale]

Even after it has happened, I'm still willing to ridicule the Julio arriving theory.

When did Durkon cast the sending? Right when they entered the canyon?

Presumably as soon as Elan ran off to find him. There was no reason to wait.

[Ridureyu]

And Durkon is smoldering but not burning. Awaiting explanation as to why - maybe the setting sun, maybe he did get his spell off.


Explanation: Story trumps rules sometimes. It's been doing it fairly often lately.

[Knight.Anon]

Belkar is KOed. Mr. Scruffy may be some sort of "cat-widow" for fallen masters.
Durkon is still working on his suntan possibly with no moves left.
Haley is still stunned.

I was pretty sure that Tarky and Julio knew each other when Tarquin was able to nullify Elan's pun strikes. This should be a good fight, Tarquin is caught by surprise and Julio is prepared. Hopefully Julio has figured a way around being more grist for the mill of fallen mentors.

[AstralFire]

Even after it has happened, I'm still willing to ridicule the Julio arriving theory.

When did Durkon cast the sending? Right when they entered the canyon?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html

:elan: OK, we're done with our Super Top Secret Plan for now!
:durkon: *mild bemusement*

[Hbgplayer]

Didn't see Julio coming!

[Laniius]

Funny, I was just playing Final Fantasy...

So this is where the party gets the Highwind Mechane and the map opens up.

[Dragonus45]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?

He bought the standard heroic mentor insurance package. It comes with a resurrection so long as you die saving your protege in a dramatically appropriate fashion.

[Chatterbox]

I spy with my little eye... a typo. In Elan's blue text box it says "Was a good father figure.". Should be "With a good father figure", no?

ETA:
Nope, no typo.

[Shining Wrath]

First thought: Lame.
Second thought: Laaaaaaaaaaaame.
Third, and first actual constructive thought: "A ton of hints"? Crap. Welp, there goes my lunch break (*browse, browse, browse the archives of strips for foreshadowing*)

Yeah, the last sub-panel is there PRECISELY for those who are saying "Deus ex Machina" right now. The Giant had this planned for months.

[Kish]

Everyone who said "Julio to the rescue" or "Elan's plan pays off" now achieves EPIC WIN OF THE INTERNET.

Did NOT see that coming. Kudos to those who did.

And Durkon is smoldering but not burning. Awaiting explanation as to why - maybe the setting sun, maybe he did get his spell off.
No one's taken an action since Tarquin stabbed Elan and Roy, unless the Mechane counts; a round hasn't passed.

I spy with my little eye... a typo. In Elan's blue text box it says "Was a good father figure.". Should be "With a good father figure", no?
"So I thought what we needed to balance out an evil father figure with a good father figure"?

I'm thinking no.

[Ridureyu]

PREDICTION:

Next round, Tarquin tosses a bouncy ball with a rune of insanity on it.

[whitemane]

Of course, there are still questions left here.

Who is going to die? Tarquin, Julio, or both?
If Julio lives, will he join the Order?
Which hints were there that we missed?

Isn't it obvious, Julio will die at Tarquins hand, but it will give the OOTS the room the need to drive back the bad guys.... Of course, Elan will have to scream "NOOOOOO!!!!!" over Julio's fallen body and swear to avenge his friend and mentor!

[DarkDain]

Aww im a little disappointed that they already know eachother... Now its not a surprise ! Was either expect him, or Haley's dad to possible show up (we dont know what secret hiding spot he is in)

[AstralFire]

I spy with my little eye... a typo. In Elan's blue text box it says "Was a good father figure.". Should be "With a good father figure", no?

:elan: So I thought what we needed to balance out an evil father figure was a good father figure!

I'm guessing you misread one of the words slightly? Because that seems better as-is.

[Porthos]

You know, the whole "mentor dies bit" did make it logical that he showed up somehow. I just couldn't get him to the scene.

But a (series) of Sending spells will work. Probably would have taken an awful lot of convincing though. Unless he was that pissed already at Tarquin.

...

Julio dies and then gets resurrected by Durkon. I'm calling it now! :smalltongue:

====

Also no cries of Deus ex Machina, please. As I said the correct cry here is "Mechane". :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

[Sloanzilla]

thanks, somehow I skipped 836 and 837 on multiple re-reads.

[Gift Jeraff]

Elan's wound disappears in the third-to-last panel.

Also, OOTS has a weird tendency to update while I'm waiting in the bank.

[Bulldog Psion]

The shadow is going over Durkon fully without the need to move. You can see him looking at it, and in that panel, Elan is partly in shadow. In the next panel, he's fully in shadow.

[Chatterbox]

:elan: So I thought what we needed to balance out an evil father figure was a good father figure!

I'm guessing you misread one of the words slightly? Because that seems better as-is.

Yeah, I guess you are right. Darn.

[Composer99]

Well done, Giant!

I totally did not see this coming.

[Sylian]

I wonder if the Kickstarter story about Julio Scoundrél will feature Tarquin in some way?

[Thog Fan 4 Life]

Poor, poor Julio. Panel 26 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html). Still, should be a rousing good duel. I wonder if Haley can free V from Laurin in the confusion, and perhaps together those two can take her out?

[RMS Oceanic]

PREDICTION:

Next round, Tarquin tosses a bouncy ball with a rune of insanity on it.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Reed_Copperstrand/Girard_new.png: Ghost Martyrs of the Draketooth Clan - KICK HIS ASS!

:smallbiggrin:

[Zephyr1011]

While this does fit the foreshadowing about Elan's plan, and it was hinted that Julio might return, from Elan's 'There were like a ton of hints on this one' I presume that this had a lot of foreshadowing, but I can't seem to see it. Can anyone point out which bits I've missed?

[eilandesq]

Well, now we know what the capstone inherent ability is for the Dashing Swordsman prestige class:

Dramatic Timing: A 10th level Dashing Swordsman will, when arriving at the scene of a major battle or other event, will always do so at precisely the most dramatically appropriate moment--and in doing so will automatically cause all enemies facing him to react as if the Dashing Swordsman had made an Intimidate skill check with a +10 situational bonus added to the roll, as well as automatically winning initiative in the first round of any combat arising.

Tarquin wouldn't be slowed down much by this, but it definitely would add to the coolness effect of JS' arrival.

[gkarrish]

Well that's surprising. Didn't he say last time that he he showed up again, it would probably be so he could die tragically. Why would he come, knowing that?

I wonder if, dramatically, having made that prediction creates a little plot armor? Maybe a plot helm, or just some plot greaves? (Pun in honor of Scoundrél.)

[Shining Wrath]

Elan's wound disappears in the third-to-last panel.

Also, OOTS has a weird tendency to update while I'm waiting in the bank.

Can you go to the bank more often?

[Nimin]

Whenever I see this whole pun-duel thing I always wonder if the Giant knew that insult dueling had been done before, by the Monkey Island videogame series (only them being pirates rather than D&D adventurers). :smallconfused:

[Forrestfire]

Words cannot describe how excited I am to see this :smallbiggrin:

[McStabbington]

Well played, Mr. Burlew. Well played.

[Porthos]

Gotta say, the shocking nature of this made me miss some important details.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: What is that noise? I know that noise.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: No...no!! Not now! I'm in the middle of something important!

That must have been SOME pun duel before if it is getting Tarquin this annoyed. :smallbiggrin:

[luna the cat]

I AM SO HAPPY!!!

I'd been hoping that Julio would show up the whole time! I made my account just to post my dream that Julio would come! THIS WAS SO AMAZING I LOVE THIS COMIC

[A_Man]

Isn't Julio Scroundrel chaotic neutral? :P

Awesome comic Giant. ^_^

[Harbinger]

Wow. It's so obvious that Julio is going to die that... he probably isn't going to.

[CrispyCriminal]

Elan's wound disappears in the third-to-last panel.


Actually I was wondering about that, do the prints fix errors like those?

[Porthos]

While this does fit the foreshadowing about Elan's plan, and it was hinted that Julio might return, from Elan's 'There were like a ton of hints on this one' I presume that this had a lot of foreshadowing, but I can't seem to see it. Can anyone point out which bits I've missed?

Mentor dies to get Elan upset.
Tarquin has faced a pun duel before.

Are two more.

[Ridureyu]

So, here's the question:

Is Julio tough enough to take on Tarquin?

[AstralFire]

Whenever I see this whole pun-duel thing I always wonder if the Giant knew that insult dueling had been done before, by the Monkey Island videogame series (only them being pirates rather than D&D adventurers). :smallconfused:

It's possible, but not necessary. They're both ultimately playing on the Errol Flynn brand of cinematic swordplay.


I AM SO HAPPY!!!

I'd been hoping that Julio would show up the whole time! I made my account just to post my dream that Julio would come! THIS WAS SO AMAZING I LOVE THIS COMIC

:smallbiggrin:

I love reading messages like this.

[Xelbiuj]

Can't wait to see Julio in action. What was his ranking as top swordsman again, 43?

I love Tarquin's anger, methinks Mr. Scoundrel has gotten the better of him.

Anyways, we need to make a compilation of the hints!

[Shining Wrath]

Gotta say, the shocking nature of this made me miss some important details.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: What is that noise? I know that noise.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: No...no!! Not now! I'm in the middle of something important!

That must have been SOME pun duel before if it is getting Tarquin this annoyed. :smallbiggrin:

Whether you like Tarquin, or hate him, him getting annoyed is usually a Good Thing.

[Spoomeister]

So, yeah: Scoundrel appearances in 389 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) - 392 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html). Elan's reminder about the "idea right before coming into the canyon" in 865 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html). Which was in 836 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html), and required Durkon to get back, so that likely was where the Sending to go get him came into it.

And to top it off, Scoundrel's ship is called the Mechane, so something of a pun on a "Deus Ex Mechane" fits nicely with the whole bardic punning tradition as well as a way for Mr. Burlew to maneuver out of the increasingly corner-shaped form his writing was taking.

Planned for some time. Legitimately hinted at. Still don't like it.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'll admit, I didn't lend much credence to Julio turning up, but it makes sense given what Roy said in 836, and I applaud all who predicted it.

The downside is the Order might not get as much XP for the gauntlet they've been running all day. :smalltongue:

[Dacia Brabant]

Great callback, Giant. :smallbiggrin: The only thing that can beat an evil trope master is a good one.

[AstralFire]

Can't wait to see Julio in action. What was his ranking as top swordsman again, 43?

I love Tarquin's anger, methinks Mr. Scoundrel has gotten the better of him.

Anyways, we need to make a compilation of the hints!

32 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html)

[Porthos]

Whenever I see this whole pun-duel thing I always wonder if the Giant knew that insult dueling had been done before, by the Monkey Island videogame series (only them being pirates rather than D&D adventurers). :smallconfused:

He has said he was unaware of the Monkey Island insult dueling in the past. Don't have time to dredge up the quote though. :smallsmile:

[AgentofHellfire]

Well, I'm curious now what'll happen next...

Although I'm not quite sure why Julio ultimately agreed to do this, given that he's fairly far away from all that, and met Elan only once...

So does anyone want to comment on my guess?

Basically, Elan said "Hey, wanna take down an evil empire? Well a one-on-one duel is gonna happen between me and the guy that runs it."

Julio Scoundrel already knew about Tarquin, and harbored a grudge against him, so that worked out in their favor.

The sending was sent right when Elan figured out (with the recap song) that Tarquin was with the Linear Guild.

[Morgan Wick]

Prediction:
We just saw the means whereby the Order is going to reach the Northern Continent without a teleport: the Mechane.

That would seem to be very probable, at the very least.

[Squall83]

Oh no, that means Elan's mentor is about to die, if you believe his own words. But come on, Rich, I know you can do better than that. :-)

Elan's mentor is kinda doing a Skywalking thing....

[Conte_Vincero]

Whenever I see this whole pun-duel thing I always wonder if the Giant knew that insult dueling had been done before, by the Monkey Island videogame series (only them being pirates rather than D&D adventurers). :smallconfused:
YES!!!

My grannie has bigger muscles than you

Well at least we both know which of you has better bladder control.

[Kariccia]

Regardless of Tarquin vs Julio, Laurin has Malack's staff. Either they need to get it back or Durkon has to find a new way to access his protection spell.

That said, gotta put on fitting music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUgpMJ2l4ZQ) for the occasion. :smallsmile:

[Vargtass]

Whenever I see this whole pun-duel thing I always wonder if the Giant knew that insult dueling had been done before, by the Monkey Island videogame series (only them being pirates rather than D&D adventurers). :smallconfused:

The Giant has stated he was not aware of Monkey Island when introducing pun duelling. Perhaps the quote is still linked in the the Giant's quote index thread?

[TLhikan]

You know, Tarquin might be okay with this; the Villain offing the Hero's Mentor is an integral part of the story.

[zimmerwald1915]

Here's hoping Julio's flying carpet is more cruelty-free than Tarquin's. :smalleek:

[RMS Oceanic]

Regardless of Tarquin vs Julio, Laurin has Malack's staff. Either they need to get it back or Durkon has to find a new way to access his protection spell.

That said, gotta put on fitting music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUgpMJ2l4ZQ) for the occasion. :smallsmile:

All the Mechane needs to do is stop when Durkon is in its shadow. It's only direct sunlight that harms a vampire.

[AstralFire]

Well, I'm curious now what'll happen next...

Although I'm not quite sure why Julio ultimately agreed to do this, given that he's fairly far away from all that, and met Elan only once...

So does anyone want to comment on my guess?

Basically, Elan said "Hey, wanna take down an evil empire? Well a one-on-one duel is gonna happen between me and the guy that runs it."

Julio Scoundrel already knew about Tarquin, and harbored a grudge against him, so that worked out in their favor.

The sending was sent right when Elan figured out (with the recap song) that Tarquin was with the Linear Guild.


The sending was sent in 837. But yeah, I pretty much agree.

[Knight.Anon]

This must be the beginning of the next round. Nobody has done anything other than Julio making his dramatic entrance.

I wonder if Julio recognized Elan as Tarky's son when he was back at the bar.

Did Belkar take damage from Tarquins' kick? Does he have a slam attack? I really don't want to see the halfling die (especially from being punted). It would be nice if Julio played Santa and started tossing out the potions.

[Porthos]

So, yeah: Scoundrel appearances in 389 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) - 392 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html). Elan's reminder about the "idea right before coming into the canyon" in 865 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html). Which was in 836 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html), and required Durkon to get back, so that likely was where the Sending to go get him came into it.

And to top it off, Scoundrel's ship is called the Mechane, so something of a pun on a "Deus Ex Mechane" fits nicely with the whole bardic punning tradition as well as a way for Mr. Burlew to maneuver out of the increasingly corner-shaped form his writing was taking.

Planned for some time. Legitimately hinted at. Still don't like it.

Also, Tarquin faced a pun duel before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: Though I admit that it has been many years since I've been called upon to pun-duel.

[Arcon]

First thought: Lame.
Second thought: Laaaaaaaaaaaame.
Third, and first actual constructive thought: "A ton of hints"? Crap. Welp, there goes my lunch break (*browse, browse, browse the archives of strips for foreshadowing*)
Look no more: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html
He clearly learned from the olny OTHER dashing swordsman.

[happycrow]

I don't always help my proteges against their fathers
But when I do...

nvm. Got nothing. Except a huge grin. Great strip.

[eilandesq]

Whether you like Tarquin, or hate him, him getting annoyed is usually a Good Thing.

I think we now know who Tarquin's personal rival is--and given that Tarquin has been involved in empire management for quite a while now while JS has been actively living the life of a pirate, it's not unreasonable to speculate that he's been sponging free levels off of JS rather than the other way around--payback time, Lawful Evil dude. :smallbiggrin:

[Vinsfeld]

It's going to be an epic battle

[Gift Jeraff]

Here's hoping Julio's flying carpet is more cruelty-free than Tarquin's. :smalleek:

It's blue, not red or black, so of course it is. :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

Gotta say, the shocking nature of this made me miss some important details.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: What is that noise? I know that noise.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: No...no!! Not now! I'm in the middle of something important!

That must have been SOME pun duel before if it is getting Tarquin this annoyed. :smallbiggrin:

"It has been a long time since I have had to pun duel." I get it!

[Amarsir]

The greatest thing about a crazy forum coming true is how it will only encourage other crazy forum theories.

[Ted The Bug]

OOOOOH BABY

I'm sad that at least one and probably two of the most interesting and entertaining characters in this strip are going to die. But this scene is gonna be SO COOL! :elan:

[137beth]

Yes, another pun duel!


So, here's the question:

Is Julio tough enough to take on Tarquin?
Well, he is the number 32 swordsman in the world:smalltongue:

[Harbajar]

I know that Rich as stuff planned in (long) advance, but I am super impressed by the people who predict the next comic(s) with such accuracy!

I must miss the subtly of Plot.

Or you are all reading Rich's mind - Mr Giant - +5 Tin Foil hat time!

And "meet again" and shadow for Durkon!

[Ridureyu]

My next crazy theory:

Julio won't be enough, and the Order will have to get help from The Other Guys. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html)

[orrion]

That's an awfully weird looking rapier Julio is using.

[Porthos]

Lost in all of this:

"Go Through Overshadowed" means....

absoultely nothing at all. :smalltongue:

So while the extreme speculators were right about Julio they were rather less right about the titles. :smallwink:

[homeslice]

Aw man

I so didn't want to see Julio die.

[FullStop]

Hah! Didn't see that one coming.

I like the lampshading it gets, too. Really cements it as an Elan-flavored twist.

[AgentofHellfire]

The sending was sent in 837. But yeah, I pretty much agree.

I would agree with that, except:

1. We don't actually see Durkon casting it then.
2. It would've been too far in advance to know the one-on-one duel was going to happen then. They didn't even know the Linear Guild was trailing them at that point

...wait, unless Elan was already thinking of Tarquin as a sub-boss before that point, and thus figuring the climactic duel would have to happen before the main plot. :smalleek:

That would be like, crazy intelligent of him, actually.

[Demolator]

I expected it, but at the same time, I didn't expect it!

[Kariccia]

All the Mechane needs to do is stop when Durkon is in its shadow. It's only direct sunlight that harms a vampire.

Now, yes. Tomorrow or next week? No. Unless Durkon expects the Mechane to always be hovering over him, or other similar situations, he going to need that spell or something like it.

[SmartAlec]

The sad thing is that Elan's plan will likely work, in that it will save Roy's life by giving Tarquin an alternative target to inspire Elan's vengeance.

The wonderful thing is that Julio knows that he's very likely going to his death, but upon hearing that a star pupil of his had learned that he was the son of a vicious evil warlord, he knew that there was only one thing he could ever do.

Props to Elan for pointing out that it was Roy who inspired the plan, too. Keep it up, Elan, every little bit makes Tarquin madder.

[Porthos]

The greatest thing about a crazy forum coming true is how it will only encourage other crazy forum theories.

That ship sailed when it was confirmed that Girard Draketooth was related to the Ancient Black Dragon, I'm afraid. :smallwink:

[DigoDragon]

Rogue ex Mechana? :smallbiggrin:

[Ridureyu]

I would agree with that, except:

1. We don't actually see Durkon casting it then.


And if we don't see it, it doesn't happen!

[Kish]

I just realized.

"Go...Through...Overshadowed." Spells out absolutely nothing. Particularly, but not limited to, nothing related to the rift. The Order is definitely not somehow going back through Tarquin's army just so they can go through the rift they don't want to go through. The tree's epilepsy is confirmed; THIS IS AN EX-RIFT.

[Psyren]

How did I know someone would cry Deus Ex on page 1? :smallsigh:

It's not a DE if you foreshadow it people. Clearly what he needed Durkon for was a Sending.

[Knight.Anon]

Laurin has Malack's staff and she knows how to use it. I hope Blackwing goes for her eyes, or better yet her shiny baubles. Can she really strangle V when V' can fly?

[luna the cat]

I know that Rich as stuff planned in (long) advance, but I am super impressed by the people who predict the next comic(s) with such accuracy!

I must miss the subtly of Plot.

Or you are all reading Rich's mind - Mr Giant - +5 Tin Foil hat time!

And "meet again" and shadow for Durkon!


gotta admit my ego is pretty high reading comments like this lmao, i better log out before i overreach with my dreams and predictions for the comic :smalltongue:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

All I can say is...YES! Ha HAAAA! :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

On an unrelated note, how screwed is Durkon?

[RMS Oceanic]

Now, yes. Tomorrow or next week? No. Unless Durkon expects the Mechane to always be hovering over him, or other similar situations, he going to need that spell or something like it.

That's true, but at least the immediacy has been taken off the table, so they can focus on getting the staff back without panicking about Durkon.

[AstralFire]

I would agree with that, except:

1. We don't actually see Durkon casting it then.
2. It would've been too far in advance to know the one-on-one duel was going to happen then. They didn't even know the Linear Guild was trailing them at that point

...wait, unless Elan was already thinking of Tarquin as a sub-boss before that point, and thus figuring the climactic duel would have to happen before the main plot. :smalleek:

That would be like, crazy intelligent of him, actually.

Crazy wise of him, I say. :smallwink: I still think his Wis mod is positive!

[Shining Wrath]

I'll admit, I didn't lend much credence to Julio turning up, but it makes sense given what Roy said in 836, and I applaud all who predicted it.

The downside is the Order might not get as much XP for the gauntlet they've been running all day. :smalltongue:

They get full XP for: defeating LG inside pyramid;
reaching gate and destroying it (if Quest XP used in campaign);
defeating Sand Elemental;
escape from army (one mook = 0 XP, but an army full including dinosaurs may still count).

And then the battle with TT will be partial credit because of the Julio ex Mechane intervention.

[Ridureyu]

Next strip: Haley reveals her half-celestial heritage!

[RMS Oceanic]

On an unrelated note, how screwed is Durkon?

He's gone from "needs at least two characters to act before the round ends" to "get into that shadow, should be fine for now".

So on a scale of one to ten, he's dropped from a nine to a two, maybe three.

[BlackestOfMages]

you know, looking back, this actually was foreshadowed very well yet very, very subtly...

the pun duels, elan needing to talk to durkon, even the fact the two of them fit the good/evil version of the story obssessed character

even looking back at julio's last apperanes ties this in a bit

I am impressed. kudos

plus, on a personal note, things are finally not going perfect for stuquin :smallamused:

[TroubleBrewing]

I might be reading too much into this, but I'm counting at least three hints in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) that Julio might be Elan's father...

[Smolder]

How did I know someone would cry Deus Ex on page 1? :smallsigh:

It's not a DE if you foreshadow it people. Clearly what he needed Durkon for was a Sending.

If you're referring to me, you need to read more closely.

[ScrapperTBP]

Ah so the pun duel Tarquin mentioned when dueling Elan was with Julio!

[Mr.Sandman]

Quick Julio, vaguely imply that he taught you everything, but now the student has become the master! Its the only way you will survive this.

[AstralFire]

I know they're of totally different genres, but Julio's appearance still made me think very much of this theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zzkf9yYxVs).

Turnabout Battlefield. :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

I would agree with that, except:

1. We don't actually see Durkon casting it then.
2. It would've been too far in advance to know the one-on-one duel was going to happen then. They didn't even know the Linear Guild was trailing them at that point

...wait, unless Elan was already thinking of Tarquin as a sub-boss before that point, and thus figuring the climactic duel would have to happen before the main plot. :smalleek:

That would be like, crazy intelligent of him, actually.

No, all it requires is for Elan to Send to Julio and say "I need you because I've found my real father and he's evil". And then Julio says "My old nemesis, Tarquin!" and decides to come ... possibly because of duty, possibly because he hates Tarquin, possibly because he believes the narrative is that Good Father Figure beats Evil Father to free Innocent Son.

[MoonCat]

This. Is. The. Most. Beautiful.

Grammars. Fail. In. Awe.

[Velvenin]

I am so happy to see that Durkon wasn't actually doing nothing, but rather sending for Julio all this time. That's what I'm presuming happened, anyway.

I registered just to say that. All the Durkon hate was breaking my heart. :smallfrown:

[luna the cat]

I might be reading too much into this, but I'm counting at least three hints in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) that Julio might be Elan's father...

That's a big part of why I kept saying that Julio would come, because the only thing that could take Tarquin's focus off of Roy would be questioning Tarquin's status of being Elan's father, whether literally or in terms of being a father figure. Because, since the reason Tarquin is so angry at Roy is because he is threatening Elan's path of being a rightful heir. So a competition father figure/question of Elan being "his" son is EVEN WORSE than that.

[Silva Stormrage]

I might be reading too much into this, but I'm counting at least three hints in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) that Julio might be Elan's father...

Ya you are reading waaaay too much into it. I highly doubt Julio is Elan's father.

[chronoreverse]

NOOOOOO, Julio's gonna die now =(


Plus now Durkon can get into the shade of the airship.

[Knight.Anon]

What's the chance the Tarquin and Julio are related? They could be half brothers, that much focus on plot has to be some sort of bloodline.

[Toper]

Ha, not bad!

However, it's... odd... that the Mechane is casting a giant shadow while also being much too far away to actually block the sun. I guess we should put it down to art school (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9152851&postcount=10).

[AstralFire]

I am so happy to see that Durkon wasn't actually doing nothing, but rather sending for Julio all this time. That's what I'm presuming happened, anyway.

I registered just to say that. All the Durkon hate was breaking my heart. :smallfrown:

The sending was back in 837 - but it is possible Durkon was being sent back to in the last few strips, so they could figure out where they were...

[RMS Oceanic]

I know they're of totally different genres, but Julio's appearance still made me think very much of this theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zzkf9yYxVs).

Turnabout Battlefield. :smallbiggrin:

Actually I was thinking more like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LHSlC_My8).

(Vaarsuvius' return was Edgeworth's version :smallsmile:)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

What an amazing final panel.

It gave me chills to see Julio Scoundrel again.

[SavageWombat]

So who had Julio Scoundrel in the pool? No, "Elan's plan saves them" does not count.

[Zubrowka74]

PREDICTION:

Next round, Tarquin tosses a bouncy ball with a rune of insanity on it.

And the bouncy ball lands in... sand!

[Ridureyu]

I am so happy to see that Durkon wasn't actually doing nothing, but rather sending for Julio all this time. That's what I'm presuming happened, anyway.

I registered just to say that. All the Durkon hate was breaking my heart. :smallfrown:


The Durkon hate made complete sense!

On an unrelated note, in my D&D games, whenever a player's turn comes up, I berate him for not acting earlier in the round.

"What were you doing while those goblins were stabbing us? STANDING there? Show some more initiative, man!"

[happycrow]

That's a big part of why I kept saying that Julio would come, because the only thing that could take Tarquin's focus off of Roy would be questioning Tarquin's status of being Elan's father, whether literally or in terms of being a father figure. Because, since the reason Tarquin is so angry at Roy is because he is threatening Elan's path of being a rightful heir. So a competition father figure/question of Elan being "his" son is EVEN WORSE than that.

Oh, dear Lord...you're both right.

[AstralFire]

Actually I was thinking more like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LHSlC_My8).

(Vaarsuvius' return was Edgeworth's version :smallsmile:)

Also a good choice. Edgeworth and Vaarsuvius have much in common (odd that I love Edgey and am only starting to be okay with V.)

[Dakaran]

Awesome! I'm so pumped that Julio's back! :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

So who had Julio Scoundrel in the pool? No, "Elan's plan saves them" does not count.

A few people mentioned that Julio Scoundrel would show up. But I can't recall if anyone explicitly tied it in to Elan's Plan.

[Shining Wrath]

I am so happy to see that Durkon wasn't actually doing nothing, but rather sending for Julio all this time. That's what I'm presuming happened, anyway.

I registered just to say that. All the Durkon hate was breaking my heart. :smallfrown:

The sending was probably back about 100 strips or so, before entering Windy Canyon.

Not certain what's up with Durkon, but hoping for an explanation soon.

[Knight.Anon]

I think that Julio will survive this by faking his own death. That way the fallen mentor trope would still be "fulfilled". A true hero makes his own luck.

[Shining Wrath]

Ya you are reading waaaay too much into it. I highly doubt Julio is Elan's father.

It is difficult ... but not impossible ... for twins to have different fathers.

[Moran]

Now THAT's what I call a plot twist! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[DigoDragon]

I might be reading too much into this, but I'm counting at least three hints in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html) that Julio might be Elan's father...

That would be interesting, although Elan still looks a lot like his brother... unless... they BOTH were Julio's? Heh, seems crazy enough for that family. :smallbiggrin:

[nogall]

So, here's the question:

Is Julio tough enough to take on Tarquin?

I think that's the wrong question. With Tarquin, it's not a matter of being tough, but of being appropriate story-wise enough... In this case, Tarquin beware! :smallbiggrin:

[Havokca]

So who had Julio Scoundrel in the pool? No, "Elan's plan saves them" does not count.

Whoever the guy I was replying to here was replying to..:


Maybe the reason why Elan needed to talk to Durkon about the plan was so that he could do a sending?

[bibliophile20]

Re: Durkon screwed.

He can't be. We know that he's going to return to the Dwarven Homelands "posthumously". So he's got plot/prophecy armor to survive this little tanning incident.

[derfy]

Feels like the pace of updates is increasing, which is always nice.

also rip in peace julio

No, just...no. Let that meme die.

[Shining Wrath]

BTW, when Haley snaps out of it, I think Laurin is going to look like a pincushion in a freezer. Also, if the shadow of the Mechane moves over Laurin, Durkon's going to politely ask for his staff back.

Julio is high enough level to pun-duel Tarquin for a few rounds - we know they've done it before. As the members of the Order come back into the battle, Laurin is going to be progressively less capable of holding them all off.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Ever read "The Illiad"? Sometimes a hero's gotta do what a hero's gotta do.

Which makes Elan (in some sense) Patroclus. Probably not in the boy-toy sense.

I think Hector would be the better example of what Julio is doing here.

[ManicOppressive]

My prediction: Julio Scoundrel lives. It's actually a little too obvious and lampshaded to kill him at this point. Of course using that we could play the wine game of expectations, but I like Julio so I'm hedging on him living.

[pendell]

You. Have. Got. To. Be. KIDDING. ME!

Someone please explain to me , in small words, how this is NOT a Deus Ex Machina. There's the Machane floating right there! That's even its name for pity's sake!


Never mind, I understand now why it's not. Elan had a secret plan, and Tarquin did some hidden machinations before he entered the pyramid. In both cases, they were calling in additional allies. Like father, like son.


1) I am delighted to see Julio Scoundrel again, and my anticipation for the next strip is building.

2) I don't think Julio is just going to magically set things right; he's just going to level the playing field a bit.

3) The entrance is hilarious. THe power of funny covers over a multitude of sins.

So even if this is the second time a thinly veiled deus ex machina has entered the strip, I'm glad to see it and enjoy it!

ETA: And the mechane's shadow will save Durkula's existence on this plane, I suspect. He's got one round to get under cover, and I think he'll make it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[mhsmith]

I know that Rich as stuff planned in (long) advance, but I am super impressed by the people who predict the next comic(s) with such accuracy!

I must miss the subtly of Plot.

Or you are all reading Rich's mind - Mr Giant - +5 Tin Foil hat time!

And "meet again" and shadow for Durkon!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/VaarsuviusDecline.pngAnd once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)

[Smolder]

If Julio dies, it gives Elan the same dramatic motivation that killing Roy would have, so isn't that kind of a victory for Tarquin? (Yes, I know, win or lose, Tarquin will claim it was all part of his plan)

[Havokca]

So who had Julio Scoundrel in the pool? No, "Elan's plan saves them" does not count.

found it:


Hey, I thought of another way for them to get out of this

Elan's mentor. It fits the tropperific nature of Elan's family. Chips are down, then the old mentor arrives to save Elan's life. The mentor dies in the process, and Elan swears revenge

Meanwhile the mentor goes to the afterlife and says, "...Dammit!"

To which, someone responded "How would Julio know where to find them? Or even that they needed help?"

To which I responded "Maybe that's why Elan needed Durkon; A sending"

That's about as close as anyone came to calling it, though.

[Felhammer]

Re: Durkon screwed.

He can't be. We know that he's going to return to the Dwarven Homelands "posthumously". So he's got plot/prophecy armor to survive this little tanning incident.

He can still return home as a corpse to fulfill the prophesy.

[DavidBV]

Oh my gods, THE CRAZY PEOPLE WERE RIGHT.

for some reason your post made me spill my drink :smallbiggrin:

[Copperdragon]

Cool. Simply cool.

[chronoreverse]

Someone please explain to me , in small words, how this is NOT a Deus Ex Machina.

Mostly because by definition, a DEM is neither foreshadowed nor does it involve already established characters. It also completely solves the problem.

It's one of those terms that have lost some of its meaning in common usage because it's thrown out every time "something surprising that I didn't anticipate" happens.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

It is difficult ... but not impossible ... for twins to have different fathers.

And if one twin absorbs the other, the resulting Baby is called a chimera and has, in a way, two fathers.

[Porthos]

Re: Durkon screwed.

He can't be. We know that he's going to return to the Dwarven Homelands "posthumously". So he's got plot/prophecy armor to survive this little tanning incident.

I think he will survive. But not because of "prophecy armor"

Here is what I had to say about it in the last comic discussion:


I just wanna make one point about the whole 'posthumously' thing (which is tangentially related to the idea that Durkon might get dusted here).

Roy and Durkon sure as hell didn't take it to mean "After I am resurrected." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html)

Just sayin'.

No, both of them expected it to mean "After Durkon is dead." This with both of them being well aware of resurrection and that adventurers try to weasel out of situations (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html).

Perhaps we should put some weight behind the character's reactions here when we think about resurrection magics as a form of loophole abuse. Not absolute weight, perhaps, if that was intentional misdirection. But I think we should still keep it in mind.

Of course, while we put that weight, we should of course also note that being undead is in fact very different from being brought back to life, thematically and mechanically. And thus very much satisfies the prophecy. Just not in a way that Durkon really would have liked, had he known at the time. :smallamused:

As for how this relates to the present strip, if Durkon gets dusted here, and Team OotS carries his ashes in an urn (with perhaps a bit of sand thrown in :smalltongue:) and hot on their heals is a super pissed off Team Evil or Team Tarquin (for whatever reason) then the other prophecy is fulfilled as long as said pissed off people do enough amount of damage in the process. In fact, this was one of the long standing interpretations of the other prophecy.

Quite frankly, carting around Durkon's dead carcass and having his ashes in a urn make little difference to me.

That being said, I highly doubt Durkon gets dusted here, if only because we have already seen two instances of dusted characters become Gone With the Wind. But should Durkon face death in a future situation where it isn't so windy? No. I wouldn't think he has Prophecy Armor that absolutely shields the character.

Mind, I doubt it is the direction Rich will go. But I don't think we can use the twin prophecies as absolute evidence that Durkon won't get dusted between now and whenever Team OotS arrives at the Dwarven Homelands.

Mind, again, I think Durkon will survive. But being carted around in an urn still meets the terms of the prophcies as long as Bad Stuff Happens whilst it Team OotS in in Drawf Lands.

[Morgan Wick]

How I would have wanted this to go down: :elan::You're still wrong, Dad. About me, about Roy, about everything. The truth is, I'm not a hero, I never asked to be, and I certainly never wanted to fight you, and I still don't. What I wanted most of all was the family I never had - the family it sounds like Nale had with your old adventuring buddies. You have no idea how overjoyed I was to find out I had a twin brother, or how heartbroken I was to find out he was evil - and to go through the same thing again with you, only that much worse. Even then, the thing I wanted most of all was for us to all come together and be a family again. I realize now that was never going to happen - even before you killed Nale something happened in that pyramid to make me realize it. Besides, I already have a better family than you could have ever given me. These people here are my family now. Roy is like the bestest big brother anyone could have ever had, Haley is the most awesome chick in the history of ever, even Belkar can be fun to be around when he's not trying to kill you. I'm not going to drop everything and go after you if you kill Roy, Dad. Haley's going to take over the group and we're going to keep doing what we were doing. Heck, Roy died once before, I was separated from Haley at the time, and the closest thing my half of the group had to a leader was someone who wasn't even a member of the group! My heart bleeds for all the people suffering under your reign, Dad, but you're not the only villain out there. There are others threatening a lot more people than you are, including everyone you terrify and even you yourself. So maybe you kill Roy, I swear vengeance on you, I spend the rest of my life trying to kill my own father and in the process giving him exactly what he wants, or maybe - just maybe - I continue to let you stew in your own splendor, doing the same thing you've always done, blissfully ignorant of the fact you're just a minor, forgettable villain in a far larger plotline, or if you aren't, your ego won't let you handle the knowledge.

(For the record, I do still think maximum irony points would require Roy to lay the finishing blow on Tarquin in this fight even with Julio here.)

[Havokca]

He can still return home as a corpse to fulfill the prophesy.

I disagree.

I mean, how can his dead body/ashes be said to *bring* anything?

Saying that he'll bring death and destruction when he returns home implies that he'll actually *do* something to cause/allow that death and destruction. "Bring" is too active to be the same thing as "your return home will *coincide* with death and destruction"

[Aotrs Commander]

Thank you, Giant. On a day when things in my family continue to go horribly wrong, this reveal really made me smile.

(Metaphorically, obviously, Lich considering.)

[Kish]

Someone please explain to me , in small words, how this is NOT a Deus Ex Machina.
Julio...no wait, that's three syllables.

J is not a god.

There! All words of one syllable!

[Michaeler]

If you're referring to me, you need to read more closely.

I hope the pun still works in battle though.

[AdmiralCheez]

Ah, Julio Scoundrél. We meet again. Hopefully not for the last time.

[hagnat]

well, i did bet on "go through the choppa"
the Mechane is a close call

[Porthos]

Never mind, I understand now why it's not. Elan had a secret plan, and Tarquin did some hidden machinations before he entered the pyramid. In both cases, they were calling in additional allies. Like father, like son.

Also, as has been poined out, Tarquin faced a pun-duel long ago. At the time, there was (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177078) a LOT of speculation that Tarquin and Julio had once met (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177662).

But since it's been a few years since those strips first went live, I think the memory of the conversations there faded a bit. :smallconfused:

[Shining Wrath]

I think Hector would be the better example of what Julio is doing here.

Dying nobly because honor requires it?

Remember, Hector thought it was his duty to face Achilles because it was his decision to remain outside of Troy as night fell. He thought they'd finish the Greeks the next morning after they had spent the day fighting among the ships.

He did not realize that Achilles would avenge Patroclus. I forget how many Trojans Achilles killed, but it was enough to make the river overflow its banks.

So Hector thought all that blood was on his hands and that duty required him to fight Achilles, and die. That doesn't seem to be Julio's situation.

Also, Julio presumably got the sending and headed for Elan hours ago. He did not know at that time that he'd be dueling Tarquin immediately upon arrival.

[AutomatedTeller]

Tons of things to love about this comic:

Tarquin not understanding that he's lawful and Elan is not. He literally cannot understand why Elan likes the disorder.

Julio Scoundrel on a flying carpet - always good.

Durkon getting saved.

Tarquin getting foiled.

Elan's plan saving the day (for now, at least)

I think the giant has found himself in a maze of twisty little plot turns, all different.

[Ridureyu]

How I would have wanted this to go down: :elan::You're still wrong, Dad. About me, about Roy, about everything. The truth is, I'm not a hero, I never asked to be, and I certainly never wanted to fight you, and I still don't. What I wanted most of all was the family I never had - the family it sounds like Nale had with your old adventuring buddies. You have no idea how overjoyed I was to find out I had a twin brother, or how heartbroken I was to find out he was evil - and to go through the same thing again with you, only that much worse. Even then, the thing I wanted most of all was for us to all come together and be a family again. I realize now that was never going to happen - even before you killed Nale something happened in that pyramid to make me realize it. Besides, I already have a better family than you could have ever given me. These people here are my family now. Roy is like the bestest big brother anyone could have ever had, Haley is the most awesome chick in the history of ever, even Belkar can be fun to be around when he's not trying to kill you. I'm not going to drop everything and go after you if you kill Roy, Dad. Haley's going to take over the group and we're going to keep doing what we were doing. Heck, Roy died once before, I was separated from Haley at the time, and the closest thing my half of the group had to a leader was someone who wasn't even a member of the group! My heart bleeds for all the people suffering under your reign, Dad, but you're not the only villain out there. There are others threatening a lot more people than you are, including everyone you terrify and even you yourself. So maybe you kill Roy, I swear vengeance on you, I spend the rest of my life trying to kill my own father and in the process giving him exactly what he wants, or maybe - just maybe - I continue to let you stew in your own splendor, doing the same thing you've always done, blissfully ignorant of the fact you're just a minor, forgettable villain in a far larger plotline, or if you aren't, your ego won't let you handle the knowledge.

(For the record, I do still think maximum irony points would require Roy to lay the finishing blow on Tarquin in this fight even with Julio here.)

As cool as tha speech is, wouldn't Tarquin just say, "Okay, then," and stabbinate Elan to death before going off to sire a few more heroic sons?

[Shining Wrath]

You. Have. Got. To. Be. KIDDING. ME!

Someone please explain to me , in small words, how this is NOT a Deus Ex Machina. There's the Machane floating right there! That's even its name for pity's sake!


Never mind, I understand now why it's not. Elan had a secret plan, and Tarquin did some hidden machinations before he entered the pyramid. In both cases, they were calling in additional allies. Like father, like son.


1) I am delighted to see Julio Scoundrel again, and my anticipation for the next strip is building.

2) I don't think Julio is just going to magically set things right; he's just going to level the playing field a bit.

3) The entrance is hilarious. THe power of funny covers over a multitude of sins.

So even if this is the second time a thinly veiled deus ex machina has entered the strip, I'm glad to see it and enjoy it!

ETA: And the mechane's shadow will save Durkula's existence on this plane, I suspect. He's got one round to get under cover, and I think he'll make it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Oh c'mon, when The Giant actually has Elan tell Roy not to look at him like that, you know it's not a DEM.

[Ionbound]

Julio Scoundrel, Ladies and Gentlemen. Not even George Clooney in Gravity could top this one.

[Ramien]

Julio Scoundrèl (And he deserves the full name) certainly knows how to make an entrance, doesn't he?

There's a pun storm coming... better be prepared.

[Kevka Palazzo]

I am taken aback by this latest turn of events!

The internal movie playing in my head made this scene entirely too epic.

Imagine the wind kicking up dust swirls, Tarquin and Julio's capes billowing out, the Mechane's silhouette in front of the setting sun causing a lens flare (though not as annoying as one from a J. J. Abrams movie), it's even in the rule of thirds, with Tarquin on the left, Julio in the middle, and the Mechane on the right. The orchestra swells to a triumphant, flaring beat, like something out of a romantic fantasy from the 80s (think Princess Bride).

And of course, there's absolutely no shaky-cam, washed-out colour palette, or dutch angles. Just the way God intended.

[Porthos]

I disagree.

I mean, how can his dead body/ashes be said to *bring* anything?

Saying that he'll bring death and destruction when he returns home implies that he'll actually *do* something to cause/allow that death and destruction. "Bring" is too active to be the same thing as "your return home will *coincide* with death and destruction"

Bringing implications into prophecies is seriously asking for trouble. :smallwink:

Posit this:

Team OotS goes to the Dwarven Homelands, with a Dead Durkon (either in a casket, urn, or whatever). Hot on their heels is Team Tarquin/Team Evil/Team We Haven't Met Yet.

Lots and lots of Death and Destruction occur.

Has Durkon returned home? Yes.

Is it posthumously? Yes.

Has Lots of Death and Destruction occurred? Yes.

Did the Death and Destruction occur by Durkon coming home? Since Team OotS brought the destruction with them, and Durkon was with Team OotS at the time, albeit dead, then also: Yes.

Again, I don't think this is how it will go down. But to confidently proclaim that Durkon has Plot/Prophecy Armor just isn't the case. :smallsmile:

[ratfox]

Poor, poor Julio. Panel 26 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html). Still, should be a rousing good duel. I wonder if Haley can free V from Laurin in the confusion, and perhaps together those two can take her out?

The worst is that reading that panel 26, we get a scenario which would will satisfy Tarquin. :smallmad:

[oppyu]

1: Well, at least I never actually typed out loud 'it would be ridiculous for anyone to expect Julio Scoundrel to come out of the blue and save the Order here' (much unlike the many times I typed 'it would be ridiculous for Malack to be a vampire'). But I was thinking it.

2: Daaaaaaaamn, Roy has got hit points coming out the wazoo. Someone pass that man a million potions.

[Sylthia]

Julio, NOO! If you strike him down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[AstralFire]

I am taken aback by this latest turn of events!

The internal movie playing in my head made this scene entirely too epic.

Imagine the wind kicking up dust swirls, Tarquin and Julio's capes billowing out, the Mechane's silhouette in front of the setting sun causing a lens flare (though not as annoying as one from a J. J. Abrams movie), it's even in the rule of thirds, with Tarquin on the left, Julio in the middle, and the Mechane on the right. The orchestra swells to a triumphant, flaring beat, like something out of a romantic fantasy from the 80s (think Princess Bride).

And of course, there's absolutely no shaky-cam, washed-out colour palette, or dutch angles. Just the way God intended.

I visualized this description in a dutch angle. It was still pretty awesome, though. :smallsmile:

[quasit]

Wohoooooooooo...go Julio, do or die, but looking awesome either way!

And well, I think mechane is machina is this not. Really, Elan is right, should have seen this one.

Also durkon: A shade! Neat!

[Dandria]

This is. . . this is perfect. Just perfect. I honestly could not have hoped for anything better than what we got in this strip.

My hopes and dreams, restored.

[Forikroder]

Wohoooooooooo...go Julio, do or die, but looking awesome!

And well, I think mechane is machina is this not. Really, Elan is right, should have seem this one.

Also durkon: A shade! Neat!

ya there was totally foreshadowing this would happen

[Shining Wrath]

Another point - the Mechane carries siege engines. Catapults, IIRC, or ballistae.

If there's crew to man the heavy weapons, Laurin and Tarquin have to stay close to the OotS - otherwise, INCOMING. Their only cover in the middle of a desert is being near people that Julio wants to live.

Again, assuming the Mechane is crewed.

[Poppy Appletree]

Two things:

1. I'm betting Tarquin listed around the 30 range in the list of "Top 100 Swordmen [sic] of the Century (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html)";

2. There's no way Scoundrél didn't have an inkling about who Elan was, since according to Haley they look incredibly similar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html).

[Bulldog Psion]

Like others in this thread (I claim no special distinction) I don't think that Julio will die here. It's too obvious a trope for it to not be subverted in some way. I think Durkon's going to join in the fight, since the shade has presumably reached him. Tarquin's going to end up fighting Durkon, Roy, and Julio.

This is a bit of prediction:

The Order and Julio defeat Tarquin and take him prisoner. They drag him along as they go to the Northern gate. What happens to him there, I don't know. But I think they'll take him with them, as the only alternative to letting him stay there as tyrant, or killing him outright (which Elan would object to).

[Shining Wrath]

Julio, NOO! If you strike him down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Dude, if Elan = Luke, Julio is the good father figure = Obi-wan, and Tarquin = Darth.

[Kevka Palazzo]

I visualized this description in a dutch angle. It was still pretty awesome, though. :smallsmile:

That's fair. I'm just really, really tired of hack directors using dutch angles as visual shorthand for "EPIC ACTION SCENE" that at this point thanks to Battlefield: Earth and the first Thor, among other movies, that I toss it in with shaky cam and a washed-out colour palette (and overuse of lens flare, though since that's Abrams' thing I'm not as tired of it yet), as a tired, lazy, cinematographic device.

I'm also okay with dutch angles in a horror movie, or during a creepy scene, since it adds a sense of disorientation and confusion.

[Sloanzilla]

It was corny, but I love Elan so very much that I'm happy to see him happy.

[gorocz]

Holy holying holy...
I'm not sure whether I'm more surprised by Julio's appearance or by all the people predicting it in advance. I'm going to go right now to read the whole desert part of the story to find the clues that I didn't notice before...

[Jordan Cat]

Like others in this thread (I claim no special distinction) I don't think that Julio will die here. It's too obvious a trope for it to not be subverted in some way. I think Durkon's going to join in the fight, since the shade has presumably reached him. Tarquin's going to end up fighting Durkon, Roy, and Julio.

This is a bit of prediction:

The Order and Julio defeat Tarquin and take him prisoner. They drag him along as they go to the Northern gate. What happens to him there, I don't know. But I think they'll take him with them, as the only alternative to letting him stay there as tyrant, or killing him outright (which Elan would object to).



Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

Anyway, great page, did not expect this at all, although in hindsight we all really should have.

[Reddish Mage]

Where's the ton of hints on this one?

We had Elan's secret plan. Clearly, Durkon used Sending. Julio did say he hoped we would never meet again given that he'd probably just get killed while shouting some final words of wisdom.

Of course, that airship will come in handy getting to the next dungeon and the Order really needs it. I don't see where a hint to that is in.

[luna the cat]

A few people mentioned that Julio Scoundrel would show up. But I can't recall if anyone explicitly tied it in to Elan's Plan.

in my post back in september i did :P

[Forikroder]

Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

Julio has to live at least long enough to get the order on the airship

cant wait for another spic pun duel

[Learuis]

I don't think we're going to see Julio Scoundrel die here. I think it will force Tarquin to retreat after some dueling.

I suppose Julio could die and OOTS will ride the airship without him to dwarf lands... but my bet is on Julio surviving.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Dying nobly because honor requires it?

Remember, Hector thought it was his duty to face Achilles because it was his decision to remain outside of Troy as night fell. He thought they'd finish the Greeks the next morning after they had spent the day fighting among the ships.

He did not realize that Achilles would avenge Patroclus. I forget how many Trojans Achilles killed, but it was enough to make the river overflow its banks.

So Hector thought all that blood was on his hands and that duty required him to fight Achilles, and die. That doesn't seem to be Julio's situation.

Also, Julio presumably got the sending and headed for Elan hours ago. He did not know at that time that he'd be dueling Tarquin immediately upon arrival.
Alright, it's just that Hector was the awesome good guy who dies fighting an overrated (but still impressive, if for nothing else than his body count) Bad guy.

Not a perfect analogy, but better than Patrocles.

Maybe a better analogy would be Beowulf against the dragon.

[Shining Wrath]

Ah, but what if it's so obvious that it's going to be subverted, that Rich actually kills him ,thus subverting the subversion? :)

You have made one of the classic blunders! The most famous is getting involved in a land war on the Western Continent, but only slightly less well known is never go up against Rich Burlew with PLOT on the line!

[AstralFire]

in my post back in september i did :P

I dub thee Queen of Predictions. Have a Burger King crown. :smallbiggrin:

Man, I don't think I've ever been so happy about one single update in this comic.

[WufeiLord]

I just realized this: Tarquin's becoming unreasonable is not random. One of his most trusted friends is dead, one that was helping keep him in check. Tarquin got where he is now because of a handful of close friends that could challenge his authority where he needed it. Otherwise, he'd just be a long-dead recurring villain.

See:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html

Malack was a stabilizing support for Tarquin, not just a magical support (cleric). His 'replacement' support (the sorcerer and the nomad) are purely diplomatic allies and don't know Tarquin very well. Malack could have easily been the person to turn to for reason in such a scenario with his son, much like the strip I linked, and could have resulted in a very different scenario.

[Shining Wrath]

Alright, it's just that Hector was the awesome good guy who dies fighting an overrated (but still impressive, if for nothing else than his body count) Bad guy.

Not a perfect analogy, but better than Patrocles.

Maybe a better analogy would be Beowulf against the dragon.

Hmmmm.

I guess I misread Homer, because I always saw Achilles as the hero, and Hector as his noble foil, while Paris plays the role of despicable villain.

[Porthos]

Where's the ton of hints on this one?

We had Elan's secret plan. Clearly, Durkon used Sending. Julio did say he hoped we would never meet again given that he'd probably just get killed while shouting some final words of wisdom.

Of course, that airship will come in handy getting to the next dungeon and the Order really needs it. I don't see where a hint to that is in.

Discussion thread for the 'ton of hints' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314332) :smallsmile:

But I would also point out one thing. This is Elan saying that. So what he considers a hint and what everyone else considers a hint might not be the same thing. :smallwink:

[Composer99]

I'm hoping Laurin has to eat a few arrows or vampiric slam attacks next update.

[Jolnim]

So then Tarquin is the Devil-King of Dinosaur Island? Tarquin doesn't seem overly concerned about Julio - more like he (Julio) is an untimely annoyance.

[HylianKnight]

How did I know someone would cry Deus Ex on page 1? :smallsigh:

It's not a DE if you foreshadow it people. Clearly what he needed Durkon for was a Sending.

Right? Spending a whole strip setting up Elan's secret plan (that comes from Roy's talk about family figures, and for whom he needs the Cleric for a moment), bringing it up multiple times over different strips, and then having the dramatic reveal, IS NOT A DEUS EX MACHINA!!! Having a plot twist or reveal or anything else that literally every story structure has, is not bad storytelling.

Having something make no sense, come out of nowhere, or even just having conflict resolution occur by pure, random chance (see: V being saved from the Death Knight by a falling zombie dragon head out of nowhere) is. And even then it's not inherently terrible if done correctly and in the right moments.

This stip does not qualify.

[Michaeler]

2. There's no way Scoundrél didn't have an inkling about who Elan was, since according to Haley they look incredibly similar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html).

Their first meeting makes perfect sense if you assume he knows. But then it also makes perfect sense if you go so far as to assume he fathered Thog, hence the shocked expression when Elan plommits about his evil twin's half-orc friend. Not sure what to make of that right now.

[Seeen]

As soon as I saw the last panel, I imagined fanfare.

[eilandesq]

Julio...no wait, that's three syllables.

J is not a god.

There! All words of one syllable!

Julio: The ladies would beg to differ, my friend. :smallbiggrin:

[Xianthe]

I think we now know who Tarquin's personal rival is--and given that Tarquin has been involved in empire management for quite a while now while JS has been actively living the life of a pirate, it's not unreasonable to speculate that he's been sponging free levels off of JS rather than the other way around--payback time, Lawful Evil dude. :smallbiggrin:

This. This I like, a lot.

Also very amused that I was sitting in bed reading War and XPs, and had just gotten to the escape from prison.

Suddenly, I sit down at my computer, and more Julio!

Well done Giant! I can honestly say that, despite the foreshadowing, I was stunned by the turn of events...

...and then I cheered.

[AstralFire]

I just realized this: Tarquin's becoming unreasonable is not random. One of his most trusted friends is dead, one that was helping keep him in check. Tarquin got where he is now because of a handful of close friends that could challenge his authority where he needed it. Otherwise, he'd just be a long-dead recurring villain.

See:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html

Malack was a stabilizing support for Tarquin, not just a magical support (cleric). His 'replacement' support (the sorcerer and the nomad) are purely diplomatic allies and don't know Tarquin very well. Malack could have easily been the person to turn to for reason in such a scenario with his son, much like the strip I linked, and could have resulted in a very different scenario.

I think Tarquin was more placating Malack (because Malack is his friend and ALSO because Malack is a valuable ally) than being actually convinced, but you have a good point.

I feel a little bit sad reading that strip, though. Malack and Tarquin are both horrible people and deserve to suffer, but it's still a little bit wistful to watch a friendship be no more.

[Giggling Ghast]

Well, I can honestly say I didn't see that coming.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I was kind of hoping that Sir Francoise would be the one to save the day here. Or Ganji and Enor. Or Xykon, here to rip Tarquin's disgustingly warm fluid-filled organs out for calling him Zykon. But I'm glad to see Julio, that's way better than what I came up with.

[Aolbain]

Well, shait. They were right.

[Knight.Anon]

Strip 931... The rest of Tarky's team show up.
Strip 932... The Sapphire Guard show up backed by Elves.
Strip 933... Team Evil shows up fashionably late.
Strip 934... It was a dream within a dream.

[HandofShadows]

That is EPIC! What's more Tarquin and Julio already know each other. :smallcool:

Elan must be spending some of his XP on wisdom points to think of this. :smallbiggrin:

[Sylthia]

Dude, if Elan = Luke, Julio is the good father figure = Obi-wan, and Tarquin = Darth.

That's what I meant. The "NO" was for Julio's imminent death.

[Chessgeek]

I love it when Rich talks to the forum through the comic. Especially when it's to poke fun at us all.