Plot Hole?

[Geordnet]

If Julio knew Tarquin, why didn't he recognize Elan as the latter's son?

A few possible explanations:

He didn't, because he doesn't have a perfect memory.
He didn't, because the visual similarity between Tarquin and Elan is exaggerated for comedic effect.
He saw the resemblance, but brushed it off as a coincidence.
He did, but deliberately kept quite about it.
(Same as D, but additionally it was one of Julio's motives for helping Elan.)


Seeing as plot holes are few and far between in a comic as well-written as OotS, I figure there's at least a 50% chance of this being cleared up in the next page or two. Still, I'd like to hear anyone else's crazy theories on the matter.

[dancrilis]

I am personally of the opinion that the only plot hole* in this comic can be seen here.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html

I am really hoping that it is clear to everyone what my meaning it - and yet I expect it isn't <shrug>.

*Or at least the only one that I remember of the top of my head.

EDIT:
I suspect he knew, and kept quite to avoid ruining the dramatic reveal.

[AstralFire]

I am personally of the opinion that the only plot hole* in this comic can be seen here.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html

I am really hoping that it is clear to everyone what my meaning it - and yet I expect it isn't <shrug>.

*Or at least the only one that I remember of the top of my head.

EDIT:
I suspect he knew, and kept quite to avoid ruining the dramatic reveal.

I don't get it at all...

There's one more possibility: Julio Scoundrel mostly associated Tarquin with his big spiky helmet, and though he was familiar with what the man looked like under the mask, it wasn't his first mental association.

[Justin Time]

Seeing as plot holes are few and far between in a comic as well-written as OotS, I figure there's at least a 50% chance of this being cleared up in the next page or two. Still, I'd like to hear anyone else's crazy theories on the matter.

That right there, the idea that we'll have an answer for this shows it isn't a plot hole. It's just a question we don't have all the information for yet.

Also it's a question that might not get an answer because it doesn't need one. Julio doesn't recognize Elan as Tarquin's son? So what? People can look similar without being related.

Definitely not a question to get hung up about, much less call it a plot hole.

[Gift Jeraff]

Probably just kept quiet about it because Julio/Elan/Tarquin intentionally act ignorant about things so as to keep everything dramatic.

Either that or he's only ever encountered Tarquin with his helm on.

[Michaeler]

D. After all, something made him spontaneously decide to help the stranger in the tavern.

[DiamondHooHaMan]

or he's only ever encountered Tarquin with his helm on.

was just about to say that. it seems perfectly likely to me.

[Psyren]

I vote D (or the helmet thing but most likely D).

[Giggling Ghast]

The helmet thing seems likely.

Or perhaps this is where we discover Tarquin has been using an illusion this whole time to mask his hideously scarred appearance.

[King of Nowhere]

I see people that looks like someone I know at least once per month. I don't assume they are their sons or relatives because of that.

[NerdyKris]

Why are we assuming he didn't recognize him? Think about it. What's more likely, an airship captain taking a liking to a kid stealing a soda and training him for no reason, or an airship captain recognizing the son of one of his enemies and deciding it would be thematically appropriate to train him to defeat his father? :smallwink:

[dancrilis]

I don't get it at all...


There was a hole in the plot.
There was also a guard in the plot.
Belkar jumped out the the first to kill the second.
This had repercussions ranging from Belkar getting his mark of justice, to Miko killing Shojo, to the fall of Azure city and everything that has happened since.

Much of the plot can be tied loosely or tightly to that hole.

[ti'esar]

I really, really wish "plot hole" wasn't the first label to come to people's minds for an unanswered question.

[Seeen]

One thing that Tarquin, Elan, and Julio share is a deep understanding and love for the dramatic. It's highly likely Julio himself was also trying to increase dramatic tension should Elan meet Tarquin.

That said, any bets on Julio being a part of Elan's family? An uncle, perhaps?

[Fafnir13]

Stop calling things like this plot holes. There are any number of good explanations, some of which you came up with. I found this article linked by the Giant (iirc) on the Giant's quotes thread. It really ought to be required reading for anyone even thinking about calling something a plot hole.

http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic/

For the record, I think it's fair to assume Julio had no reason to connect the two. We don't even know how much he's interacted with Tarquin. He might have just been a B level villain providing Julio an evil empire to occasionally imteract with.
We really don't have enough information at this point to get too far down any speculative branch. More will be revealed, or not, and I'll eagerly await the results.

[Ridureyu]

I see people that looks like someone I know at least once per month. I don't assume they are their sons or relatives because of that.


Well, I do.

[Heksefatter]

I can see no reason to even consider the possibility of a plot hole. There are so many plausible reasons, many of them already stated, for Julio not mentioning it.

Furthermore, we're probably going to learn more about the answer shortly.

[Blisstake]

It's not a plot hole if you give 4 perfectly valid explanations for it :smallconfused:

But I'm sure this will be revealed next comic or so. Let's just wait until then.

[Boogastreehouse]

I think it looks nice with a little space


D. After all, something made him spontaneously decide to help the stranger in the tavern.

Julio is almost certainly Chaotic Good. Spontaneity is a trait I would often match with a chaotic alignment.

I think that Julio definately saw the resemblance, and helped Elan because he hated Tarquin... and perhaps because he once loved Elan's mom? (Link to wacky theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16417007&postcount=37))


I think it looks nice with a little space

[St Fan]

Actually, IMHO, this revelation makes it MORE believable that Julio took such an interest in Elan initially, beyond his mere curiosity over how a scorkscrew was going to save a woman.

He must have thought, "Hey, it's stunning how much this kid look like my old enemy Tarquin. I wonder..."

He probably never was certain one way or another if Elan was related to Tarquin at the time, so he never mentioned it, since it could be irrelevant. But either way, it started the spark that led to their friendship.

So no, it ain't a plot hole. It fact, it's quite the opposite, in retrospect.

[hagnat]

its a stick world...
how many different human faces can there be ?
i would bet there are thousando of people who look like Elan around there

[Heksefatter]

I think it looks nice with a little space



Julio is almost certainly Chaotic Good. Spontaneity is a trait I would often match with a chaotic alignment.

I think that Julio definately saw the resemblance, and helped Elan because he hated Tarquin... and perhaps because he once loved Elan's mom? (Link to wacky theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16417007&postcount=37))


I think it looks nice with a little space

According to Word of the Giant, Julio is Chaotic Neutral:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15667889#post15667889

For my part, I'd have guessed Chaotic Good as well, but those are the Giant's words.

[NerdyKris]

its a stick world...
how many different human faces can there be ?
i would bet there are thousando of people who look like Elan around there

Except his resemblance to Tarquin has been noted by Roy, Haley, and Belkar. In Roy and Belkar's case, they didn't even know he was Tarquin when he took off his helmet, they recognized him by his resemblance to Elan. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0753.html)

[luna the cat]

julio mentions fencing with The Devil King of Dinosaur Mountain. maybe, considering that Tarquin and Julio haven't fought in years, that it refers to Julio and Tarquin fighting when Tarquin had his first empire? And I also think that Elan and Nale were born *after* Tarquin's first attempt to rule the continent. So, it's possible that it's not a plot hole because Julio and Tarquin had not fought since Elan and Nale were born.


I could be wrong about the dates in the above, so what if Julio had fought Tarquin *after* his sons were born and knew about it? In that case, from the reactions he gives in certain panels and some of the things he says, I believe it's not a plot hole for him to have known but said nothing.

now, let's look at page 389

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html

there are two panels when Julio has an extremely surprised look on his face.

1: his reaction when Elan reveals he has an evil twin brother and that he is a hero. At this point, if he thought that Elan looked like Tarquin and knew that Tarquin had two sons, knowing that one is an "evil twin" would be enough to raise his suspicions to a level of alarm.

2: his reaction when Elan mentions that his mom has a series of pictures of Julio. Now, if Julio had encountered Tarquin around the time that he was married to Elan's mother and had the two twins, it would totally be in character for Julio to have been with her, seen her, or whatever in the course of any adventure relating to Tarquin and Julio. So, if Julio knew that Tarquin had twins, presumably that'd mean he knew of the mother that gave birth to them, and this would be a second damning detail that would confirm in his mind that Elan is the son of Tarquin. Thus the surprised face.

one final thing

3: Later, Julio alludes to Elan being his "padawan" and when questioned, says that Elan is "better off not knowing"... If Julio knew that Tarquin had two sons, this would strongly support him knowing that Elan was one of those two sons and not telling him about his father for whatever reason.

Why wouldn't he tell? Obviously, for dramatic tension. If he knew and didn't tell, it was because he knew he wasn't just training Elan to fight against his brother... he was training him to fight against his father, who has a mastery of narrative as well.

so, that's my case

1: julio might not have known about the two sons because they were born after he and tarquin fought
2: if julio did know, it was probably indicated/foreshadowed in those three panels of surprise/star wars reference, and there could be a lot of reasons that he would know but not tell Elan who Tarquin is that have to do with dramatic tension, his knowledge about Tarquin, and so on. If Elan knew about Tarquin being his father before looking for Girard's gate, how could he make a last minute dramatic entrance to fight Tarquin, one of his oldest enemies? Etc.

[luna the cat]

i just looked at some strips, and i've been reminded that Tarquin and Elan's mother (why doesn't she have a name yet?) divorced BEFORE Tarquin attempted to conquer a region of the continent.

Still, it'd be possible that Julio and Tarquin met in the period before they divorced and seen his first wife. Or, that by meeting Tarquin and his son, had known that Tarquin had an evil son but not known that he had a good twin brother as well (thus being surprised when Elan says he had an evil twin brother)

i just think there are a lot of possible explanations and it's not a plothole at this point unless Julio bites it and an explanation is never explicitly given :P

edit: in this strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html

...Malack does not know that Tarquin had a second son. Malack and Tarquin had a very close and long friendship, so even if Julio and Tarquin had fought several times over several years, it's possible that Julio had no idea that Tarquin had two sons either, supporting the idea that he didn't know. But again, if he did know that Tarquin had an evil son, then the panel where he looks surprised would indicate him putting pieces together that kid who looks like Tarquin + Nale = twin brother, Elan.

[dancrilis]

i just think there are a lot of possible explanations and it's not a plothole at this point unless Julio bites it and an explanation is never explicitly given :P

It wouldn't be a plot hole (to use the expression that others are using, I still consider a plot hole to be a literal hole that occurs as part of the plot) anyway.

Things you do not know - do not a flaw in the plot make.

[NerdyKris]

i just think there are a lot of possible explanations and it's not a plothole at this point unless Julio bites it and an explanation is never explicitly given :P


That's not what a plot hole is. A plot hole is something that makes no sense. Not outright telling the reader something is not a plot hole. Especially when there are many numerous explanations in this thread for why he wouldn't have said "Hi Elan, you're the son of a guy I don't like!"

[henrykazuka]

Elan didn't recognize Julio the first time either, so i'll say option A.

Maybe, after a while he realized option D and that's why he decided to come back when Elan called him.

[martianmister]

This is not a plot hole, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16388270&postcount=1020)is a plot hole.

[Kornaki]

Elan didn't recognize Julio the first time either, so i'll say option A.


If they ever met before it was when Elan was like 6 months old.

[Oakianus]

According to Word of the Giant, Julio is Chaotic Neutral:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15667889#post15667889

For my part, I'd have guessed Chaotic Good as well, but those are the Giant's words.

After pulling this stunt on the defenses of Azure City, I'm not at all surprised that he's more Neutral than Good: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html

Definitely not something that the good guys would do.

Not to be off the topic, which is that anything that I don't instantly understand is a plot hole. Getting pretty tired of the plot hole regarding V's gender, to be honest.

[Amphiox]

Given how Julio is wedded to narrative convention, even if he did notice a resemblance, narrative structure would have dictated that he deliberately ignore it, so that he could act appropriately surprised at the reveal, in the same way that Elan reacted to the possibility of Nale's off-screen death....

[Lombard]

Man reading back from those days makes me miss thog

[Ghost Nappa]

This is not a plot hole, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16388270&postcount=1020)is a plot hole.

I wonder what handsome rogue discovered that problem.

The OP is not a plot hole: you came with four or five logical explanations that make sense within the narrative for why it might happen. A plot hole is a contradiction. Or if you mean literally, you might ACTUALLY mean a hole plot. Or the whole plot! But you don't mean literally...probably.

An unanswered or unaddressed question is not necessarily a plot hole.

[Geordnet]

The OP is not a plot hole: you came with four or five logical explanations that make sense within the narrative for why it might happen. A plot hole is a contradiction.
Strictly speaking, I can come up with an explanation to explain anything in any plot. (The only limiting factor being to what lengths I am willing to go in terms of redefining basic assumptions.)

In this case, despite the fact that I came up with 4 explanations, I don't think any of them are very good ones. So perhaps not a plot hole per se, but it's at least a weak spot in the plot.

(Until new developments retcon an explanation, at least.)

[Ridureyu]

How is this a big enough issue to spark a debate?

How is this even an issue?

It's like, "Why is Tarquin's hair grey when his face doesn't show any other signs of age? PLOT HOLE! Unless he explains that he prematurely grayed, I have lost all faith in this comic!"

[Souhiro]

xDDD I vote the helm, in one of my games happened something similar:

- The Local Evil Overlord put a redward on the fighter's head, for freeing some slaves and making him lose money
- The group found one of those "Wanted" signs
- The fighter asked me "How can they put my portrait in the sign? I wear my helmet almost always!" (He even makes dramatic gestures about opening the helment's visor when talking)
- I answered drawing -very sketchy- wanted posters: I.E: One of the armor... and anoother Wanted sign, of his horse!

[The Pilgrim]

If Julio knew Tarquin, why didn't he recognize Elan as the latter's son?

Because he probably did.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html
Look at his face when Elan talked him about his mother.

This may explain also why he was so helpful to Elan, teaching him pun-fighting and giving him a +3 Rapier. He knew Elan was the good son of his evil nemesis and so destined to fight his own father.

[Oakianus]

Because he probably did.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html
Look at his face when Elan talked him about his mother.

This may explain also why he was so helpful to Elan, teaching him pun-fighting and giving him a +3 Rapier. He knew Elan was the good son of his evil nemesis and so destined to fight his own father.

I think that look on Julio's face is more likely related to the alarming nature of the use to which Elan's mother put those magazines and Elan's lack of awareness regarding said usage.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

Why didn't Júlio recognize Elan as Tarquins son? Plot. There was no need for us to know about Tarquin way back then, hence why he said nothing.

This is such a small detail, it doesn't matter. It also isn't a plot hole, because there are multiple plausible explanations for it. I think the OP is confused about what a plot hole is.

[Conte_Vincero]

Guys please, we're talking about Elan, Tarquin and Julio. It is therefore obvious that the most plausible explanation is the most dramatic one. Therefore Tarquin and Julio are actually half-brothers, who have spit up in the past, but regularly meet to thwart one another's plans. Julio recognised Elan by the birthmark that everyone in his family carries, and saw his opportunity to create not only someone who could continue his legacy, but also an opportunity to defeat Tarquin by stealing what he valued the most, his legacy.

[luchifer]

Why didn't Júlio recognize Elan as Tarquins son? Plot. There was no need for us to know about Tarquin way back then, hence why he said nothing.

This is such a small detail, it doesn't matter. It also isn't a plot hole, because there are multiple plausible explanations for it. I think the OP is confused about what a plot hole is.

He could have recognized Elan, for all we know he even could have thought of abducting him in the Mechane and demand a ransom from Tarquin, or even kill him right away.

The question in panel 10 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html could have indicated him that Elan wasnt Nale.

[dtilque]

2: his reaction when Elan mentions that his mom has a series of pictures of Julio. Now, if Julio had encountered Tarquin around the time that he was married to Elan's mother and had the two twins, it would totally be in character for Julio to have been with her, seen her, or whatever in the course of any adventure relating to Tarquin and Julio. So, if Julio knew that Tarquin had twins, presumably that'd mean he knew of the mother that gave birth to them, and this would be a second damning detail that would confirm in his mind that Elan is the son of Tarquin. Thus the surprised face.

That particular panel was a joke, one of the funniest in the whole strip (and that's saying something). So why are you trying to ruin it?

[Yendor]

"It was, like, 15 years ago. Do you think I can remember every two-bit wannabe I come across? I mean, we didn't even make a comic from that one."

[Boogastreehouse]

I think it looks nicer with a little space

During that first meeting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html), look at the way Julio is just staring in panel 4.

Sure he could just be absorbing the madness of the corkscrew request and deciding whether or not to say something, but he could easily be spending a moment thinking "woah, this kid looks just like Tarquin! I think I'll casually strike up a conversation and see what happens."


I think it looks nicer with a little space

[NerdyKris]

Strictly speaking, I can come up with an explanation to explain anything in any plot. (The only limiting factor being to what lengths I am willing to go in terms of redefining basic assumptions.)

In this case, despite the fact that I came up with 4 explanations, I don't think any of them are very good ones. So perhaps not a plot hole per se, but it's at least a weak spot in the plot.

(Until new developments retcon an explanation, at least.)

Seriously? Why? Why does this bother you at all? Why do you think Julio would have said anything about Tarquin when he first met Elan? Why don't you explain what you find wrong with the situation, because even you came up with four very good reasons why he wouldn't have outright said "Hey, FYI, you resemble some evil tyrant I've faced before!".

And don't call it a "retcon" when it was clearly planned ahead of time. That's not a ret con. That's an explanation. A ret con would require changing the events of the comic.

[gerryq]

I am personally of the opinion that the only plot hole* in this comic can be seen here.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html

I am really hoping that it is clear to everyone what my meaning it - and yet I expect it isn't <shrug>.


If it is rude, I think I got it

[gerryq]

There was a hole in the plot.
There was also a guard in the plot.
Belkar jumped out the the first to kill the second.
This had repercussions ranging from Belkar getting his mark of justice, to Miko killing Shojo, to the fall of Azure city and everything that has happened since.

Much of the plot can be tied loosely or tightly to that hole.

I was wrong, was thinking more along the lines of where Belkar concealed his ring...

[Snails]

D. After all, something made him spontaneously decide to help the stranger in the tavern.

I like this answer.

Honestly, given Elan has a sky high Cha and must put his skill points somewhere, it is more notable how rarely random strangers in a bar help Elan out. This scene with Julio is a plausible way to handwave an awesome Gather Information skill result.

As already pointed out, it is not a plot hole if there are several obvious explanations that adequately explain what we have observed. It is a mystery, one sufficiently small that it is probably unimportant if it is ever addressed.

If the OP had a chance to buy The Giant a drink after the entire tale is wrapped up, would this make his Top 5 questions to ask about? Probably not.

[Emanick]

I am personally of the opinion that the only plot hole* in this comic can be seen here.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html

I am really hoping that it is clear to everyone what my meaning it - and yet I expect it isn't <shrug>.

*Or at least the only one that I remember of the top of my head.

EDIT:
I suspect he knew, and kept quite to avoid ruining the dramatic reveal.

As long as we're being literal for the sake of being literal (an ancient, merry and thoroughly noble tradition), that's a hole in the story, not a hole in the plot, per se. A plot is an interrelated sequence of the events in a story, and a literal hole is not so much an event as an object (or an absence of one, if you want to get really technical), and in no way disrupts or pokes a hole in the sequence of plot developments.

So no, that's not a plot hole. The only plot hole in OOTS that I've yet to see is that one some genius pointed out about Belkar's inconsistent knowledge of Hamlet.

[dancrilis]

I am using the defination of plot as follows.


the main events of a play, novel, film, or similar work, devised and presented by the writer as an interrelated sequence.

I am also holding that the hole was a core part of the events that lead to Belkar's character development (and the Belkar plot around that) as well as the overall plot in general.

Also Belkar having (or more correctly demonstrating) inconsistent knowledge seems in character for him - but I do know have the snips and snails book and I lack access to the hard copies of the others at present to have full context of the issue.

[ti'esar]

So no, that's not a plot hole. The only plot hole in OOTS that I've yet to see is that one some genius pointed out about Belkar's inconsistent knowledge of Hamlet.

Because a contradiction between a throwaway line in a bonus strip and a semi-canon framing device is so devastating to the plot.

[ORione]

I'm surprised no one's brought up the plot hole in the first panel of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html) strip yet.

[Emanick]

I am using the defination of plot as follows.


I am also holding that the hole was a core part of the events that lead to Belkar's character development (and the Belkar plot around that) as well as the overall plot in general.

Also Belkar having (or more correctly demonstrating) inconsistent knowledge seems in character for him - but I do know have the snips and snails book and I lack access to the hard copies of the others at present to have full context of the issue.

I actually used that precise definition, too (I'm guessing you also googled "plot definition"? :smalltongue:). But as, per that definition, a plot is made up entirely of "events," it can hardly contain a hole. It relates to a hole and interacts with a hole, but it does not contain a hole in and of itself.

I was being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic; it hardly matters.


Because a contradiction between a throwaway line in a bonus strip and a semi-canon framing device is so devastating to the plot.

Of course it isn't! And I didn't mean to imply otherwise. :smallsmile: It's interesting trivia, that's all.

[ti'esar]

Of course it isn't! And I didn't mean to imply otherwise. :smallsmile: It's interesting trivia, that's all.

It's all good. I was mostly being flippant.

[Eldest]

So no, that's not a plot hole. The only plot hole in OOTS that I've yet to see is that one some genius pointed out about Belkar's inconsistent knowledge of Hamlet.

Frankly, Belkar has demonstrated such a horrible Wisdom (in spite of the fact that it's actually only slightly below average, by the rules) that I wouldn't put it past him to not realize that it was Hamlet except with Roy.

[GCI-Flynn]

Long time lurker here...

So... on the subject of plot holes...

I've been reading through the comics again (because they're just awesome and I can't wait for the next one!!), and I came across something odd.

I noticed this during the arc when the OOTS is trying to get to Girard's gate.

Shortly after we see them trigger Girard's illusion in 693 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), the last we see of them is going out to search cities for Girard or one of his accomplices in 698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). Then, we see the story continue on Team Evil's side. The next we see of the OOTS is in 710 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html) when they're at a tavern trying to gather information about Girard. A couple of strips later, Haley, V, and Elan get captured by the bounty hunters and brought to the palace. Then, in 728 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0728.html) we see Roy and Belkar near the bounty hunters in another tavern (presumably different from the one Elan was trying to gather information from). It was just a lucky coincidence shown by Belkar's comment in the last panel. Then there's the tavern brawl over the next couple strips which ultimately leads to Roy and Belkar being arrested in 731 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0731.html).

Now, bear with me... in 732 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html), we see Durokan in that same tavern finishing his spell preparation. In order to legally re-enter the city, he has to use Stone Shape.

So... In 698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) we see them all talking about their plans for gathering information, so it's reasonable to say that, when Haley, V, and Elan get captured, they're all in relatively the same spot. If the entire party was together and didn't have any reason to try to "sneak" into the city... how did they not all legally enter the city and receive the proper papers in the first place?

[dancrilis]

Windwalked directly into the city instead of using the gate - I always assumed.

[NerdyKris]

They wind walked into the city, like they said they would in 698. Given their location on the map, the Empire of Blood was NOT the first city visited, so they likely arrived by air. Durkon then exited and reentered to avoid any issues.

[Katuko]

Even if Julio Scoundrel recognized the similarity, remember his connection to the Star Wars parody setup. If Tarquin does the Darth Vader bit and Julio matches up with Obi-Wan, then "Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father."

Now that Tarquin has done the "I am your father" line, though, Julio is free to mention any past relation he has to Tarquin. As both Elan and his father has clearly displayed in-comic: Bardic tradition dictates that they cannot mention plot-critical details until it is dramatically appropriate.

- Elan doesn't get to know his father until he is right in front of him.
- Malack's "condition" is not mentioned by name.
- Tarquin cuts Kil-Kil off so he doesn't mention his dino army until it arrives.

[Jay R]

"I don't know how it happened this way" is not a plot hole.

"It's impossible for it to have happened this way" is a plot hole.

[Cavenskull]

If Julio knew Tarquin, why didn't he recognize Elan as the latter's son?..
Wouldn't a better question be:

If Elan knew who Julio Scoundrel was, why didn't he recognize him? After all, Elan had access to around a dozen pictures of Julio, and clearly knows about his exploits. If Elan can't recognize a celebrity he's seen pictures of, it doesn't surprise me that Julio Scoundrel might not make the connection between Elan and some relative of his on another continent.

[Jay R]

Wouldn't a better question be:

If Elan knew who Julio Scoundrel was, why didn't he recognize him? After all, Elan had access to around a dozen pictures of Julio, and clearly knows about his exploits.

In the pictures, Julio was black-haired and much younger. (Which is a possible reason that he didn't recognize Tarquin's son. I think it more likely that he did, but assumed that Tarquin has a son or daughter in each port as well, and so attached little importance to it.

And if Julio did recognize Elan as Tarquin's son who was a twin separated at birth, then that might help explain why he called Elan "my young padawan." He would also know how important it was to keep that information private, so Tarquin could deliver the line so perfectly when they met. And remember that Obi-wan knew who Luke was, and didn't mention it. Julio might have been planning to use Tarquin's Star Wars theme to oppose him in Elan's name as soon as he met Elan. That could even be why he gave him a legacy sword. The scene could already have been calling out to him.

Of course, if all that's true, then since Luke had to leave his speeder behind the first time he and Obi-wan got on a ship together, then the analogue of Luke's speeder is a giant wooden alpaca stuffed with potato salad. Sometimes you shouldn't try to over-develop a literary reference.

[Amphiox]

Wouldn't a better question be:

If Elan knew who Julio Scoundrel was, why didn't he recognize him? After all, Elan had access to around a dozen pictures of Julio, and clearly knows about his exploits. If Elan can't recognize a celebrity he's seen pictures of, it doesn't surprise me that Julio Scoundrel might not make the connection between Elan and some relative of his on another continent.

Elan at that time was not particularly competent or observant.

It is entirely consistent with his behavior to fail to recognize the man even if he had had a picture of him hanging in his bedroom for his entire childhood....

[gerryq]

I'm surprised no one's brought up the plot hole in the first panel of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html) strip yet.

Aside from the monstrous hairy... hole in panel #1, there are plot holes in panels #2 and #4 also.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Elan at that time was not particularly competent or observant.

It is entirely consistent with his behavior to fail to recognize the man even if he had had a picture of him hanging in his bedroom for his entire childhood....

There's also the issue of what happens when you bump into a celebrity you weren't expecting to meet. Your brain goes "huh, looks like..." not "is..."

As I well know after that thing with Costner at the Fischgaard Film Festival concessions line.

[Cavenskull]

Elan at that time was not particularly competent or observant.

It is entirely consistent with his behavior to fail to recognize the man even if he had had a picture of him hanging in his bedroom for his entire childhood....
Then wouldn't an even better question be:

If Roy was raised by his mother, why didn't he recognize her? After all, Roy would have seen her on a daily basis, so he should have been familiar with how she looked through multiple stages of life. If can't recognize his own mother just because she rolled back the clock, and Elan can't recognize a celebrity he's seen pictures of just because his hair color has lightened, it doesn't surprise me that Julio Scoundrel might not make the connection between Elan and some relative of his on another continent.