RIP Julio Scoundrel

[Silverraptor]

We loved you so much. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html)

*Sniff*:smallfrown:

[Sylian]

"most likely". Perhaps there's a one in a million chance that he'll survive, so yeah...

[Gift Jeraff]

Julio might be able to survive this if he does NOT obey narrative convention. No "this is between him and me" personal duel BS. Let everyone gang up on Tarquin.

[Porthos]

Good thing Durkon has some spare Diamond Dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0845.html), eh? :smalltongue:

[ScrapperTBP]

I think he could survive. It depends on how they play it honestly. Tarquin is so focused on thematic order that the easiest way to defy him would be for Julio to not die in a 1 on 1 duel but to help the team.

That said who is there to help Julio? Roy is on his last legs. as is Belkar. Elan can't hit Tarquin as we saw on the balcony scene. Durkon is without a weapon and Haley is not the best when it comes to hitting Tarquin. And V is definitely out of it unless anyone can challenge Laurin.

Tarquin wanted to give Elan a dramatic death scene to swear vengeance over and this could easily be it.

[dogfish44]

"most likely". Perhaps there's a one in a million chance that he'll survive, so yeah...

Thankfully, a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)

[MtlGuy]

Julio engages Tarquin, then Elan helps stop Laurin on his own or by helping Haley recover, thus freeing V and getting the staff back for Durkon. That should be sufficient to get the momentum back for the OotS. Then we find out if Belkar suvives being punted like a football. Although Tarquin has trained to counter a multitude of fighting styles, Julio should be a significantly more profcient melee fighter than Elan.

[RiOrius]

That said who is there to help Julio? Roy is on his last legs. as is Belkar. Elan can't hit Tarquin as we saw on the balcony scene.

There's no way we don't get to see Elan and Julio tag-teaming Tarquin with puns. While Tarq held off Elan with ease before, I think their combined wordplay would overwhelm even his wit.

[Giggling Ghast]

It depends on whether or not Mentor Occupational Hazard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) trumps a hand with Big Damn Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigDamnHeroes), an Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee) and a Chekhov's Gun. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun)

If Julio says he'll hold off Tarquin so Elan can escape (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouShallNotPass), he's doomed. But if Julio invokes a personal grudge against Tarquin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsPersonal), he has a solid chance of winning.

[Dumbestupidiot]

It depends on whether or not Mentor Occupational Hazard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) trumps a hand with Big Damn Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigDamnHeroes), an Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee) and a Chekhov's Gun. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun)

If Julio says he'll hold off Tarquin so Elan can escape (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouShallNotPass), he's doomed. But if Julio invokes a personal grudge against Tarquin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsPersonal), he has a solid chance of winning.

Is it wrong that i find the fourth wall aware having a fourth wall trope duel amazing?

I'm locked down and ready for puns of epic proportions highlighting this tropetastic time

[Da'Shain]

Considering the theme of this particular arc seems to be attempting to SUBVERT genre expectations (if only so as to make Tarquin as P.O.'d as possible), I'd say he has a decent shot of living.

I kinda hope he gets his butt kicked and Roy has to get back up and save him, though. Roy needs another bad@$$ moment!

[King of Nowhere]

I doubt julio just came to die. he must be planning something.

[Flame of Anor]

Please don't die, please don't die!

[Silva Stormrage]

Also read the line he states, "The most likely situation is that I'd return only to be randomly killed by an enemy of yours". I don't think fighting Tarquin is quite "randomly being killed" so that line MIGHT not apply. I wouldn't call his death impossible (Or even unlikely) but it isn't necessarily going to happen.

[CombatOwl]

That said who is there to help Julio? Roy is on his last legs. as is Belkar. Elan can't hit Tarquin as we saw on the balcony scene.

Elan may not be able to hit Tarquin, but he could almost certainly disrupt Laurin's concentration long enough for V to recover.

[Kish]

No resting until Tarquin is dead! :smallannoyed:

[DreadArchon]

We loved you so much. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html)

*Sniff*:smallfrown:

My thoughts as well, but you must admit he has excellent timing. :smallfrown:

[Porthos]

That said who is there to help Julio? Roy is on his last legs. as is Belkar. Elan can't hit Tarquin as we saw on the balcony scene. Durkon is without a weapon and Haley is not the best when it comes to hitting Tarquin. And V is definitely out of it unless anyone can challenge Laurin.

Durkon can Fight in the Shade now. :smallwink: Even without a weapon, being a Vampire still has its advantages.

[ThePhantasm]

That said who is there to help Julio?

Haley is. She's a bit stunned but recovering.

[Fishmonster]

i think everyone underestimates Julio's chances of living, I have not read all of the forum, but I would guess that he is at least 17th level, 10 as dashing swordsman and at least 7 as a fighter. not to mention the magic items he must be packing after years of travelling. and seeing as he has faced Tarquin and survived before, I personally rate them as equals. :smallcool:

[The Blackbird]

Considering the theme of this particular arc seems to be attempting to SUBVERT genre expectations (if only so as to make Tarquin as P.O.'d as possible), I'd say he has a decent shot of living.



I'm personally on this line of thinking here. At this point to have him die and fulfill Tarquin's wish would be a little too straightforward.
I'm pretty sure Julio is going to bring up what he said back then at some point during this fight.
Also, I'm really looking forward to whatever class abilities Julio shows off of the upper levels of Dashing Swordsman. :smallwink:

[King of Nowhere]

i think everyone underestimates Julio's chances of living, I have not read all of the forum, but I would guess that he is at least 17th level, 10 as dashing swordsman and at least 7 as a fighter. not to mention the magic items he must be packing after years of travelling. and seeing as he has faced Tarquin and survived before, I personally rate them as equals. :smallcool:

Level wise, tarquin should be stronger. they may be equal in level, but julio is likely to be a rogue/dashing swordsman, not a fighter. that puts him at a disadvantage in a sword fight (unless elan's flanking can allow him to sneak attack for good). plus, his main combat buff is pun dueling, and tarquin can counter that. tarquin even got himself a good weapon again, even if probably he don't have the right proficiencies for it.
My best bet is that julio+elan will be strong enough to pun tarquin into submission, invalidating his counter to pun duels.

[Ashiver]

There is still so much Star Wars going on that it is difficult for me to think anything different than Julio dying while the rest escape on the Mechane via the flying carpet. I mean, someone is getting mentally choked in this strip for crying out loud. On the bright side maybe Elan will get visited by Juilo's ghost. This is very Obi-wan holding off Vader so Luke and his friends can get away.

I sort of expect Julio to initially be winning, forcing Laurin to release V to intervene and allowing the Order to escape.

[Sunken Valley]

Maybe 392 was foreshadowing and Tarquin will leave because Julio is the dead mentor.

[Sapphire Guard]

Am I the only one thinking that this could be Tarquin getting killed and not Julio here? It wouldn't be the climactic showdown he wants with his son, after all. And Julio wouldn't show up without a chance to get out alive.

[Souhiro]

I think that this could open Elan to new levels of Dashing Swordman, or maybe a new PRC: über-Dashing Swordman.

Keep in mind that Elan couldn't even touch Tarquin, because he counter all his puns and quips. Julio Scoundrel KNOWS how to twist the knife, he knows what have to be said, what would really hurt Tarquin.

[Taelas]

I'm hoping Julio doesn't actually use puns at all, but instead "spouts a catch-phrase (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html)."

[Forikroder]

GUYS only the main villain is worth doing this with to ensure maximum motivational potential and to build the Climax

Tarquin is already DONE in a few strips we can forget he exists theres no point in him killing scoundrel

furthermore Tarquins already killed Elans brother and attempted to kill Roy Elan already has tons of motivation killing Julio just lowers the value of his potentially very profitable death

[Spoomeister]

(x-post from main 930 thread, but this applies to Julio too, since we're talking about 4th-wall-aware characters...)

One option is not for Julio to sacrifice himself or otherwise fulfill any sort of foreshadowing about him dying due to standard tropes.

Spoiler tags to conserve space, since I'm x-posting...

Julio doesn't have to die to help out Elan and the OOTS. He simply needs to keep Tarquin occupied indefinitely, until the OOTS can escape on the airship. (Fill in your own satisfying nullification / dismissal / destruction of Laurin here.)

In fact, let me go one notch further, and go meta a bit. Tarquin's whole plotline is about him assuming the story is all about him. Multiple posters (myself included) have theorized various ignoble deaths for Tarquin, such that he dies in disgrace, ignominy, or both... but what if one breaks the 4th wall a bit and goes further than that?

What if the most karmically appropriate end to the whole Tarquin storyline, is if the OOTS take off in Julio's airship... looking behind them to see Julio madly dueling Tarquin (think, "deny, deny, deny" that Elan has done before) to keep him occupied... increasingly furious at an increasingly silly and maddening pun duel... fading into the distance and dust as the OOTS literally ride off into the sunset...

...and then neither Tarquin nor Julio are ever seen or heard from in the comic again?

THAT would be the ultimate disgrace for Tarquin. That would be the ultimate relegation of Tarquin to side-quest, b-plot, backstory, XP-generator status. He is neither the victor nor the loser. He is Schrodinger's Plot Thread. He gets no resolution. He deserves no resolution.

His son learns whatever lessons he will learn from it, and move on. The OOTS get whatever XP they get, and move on. The Empire of Blood simply swaps out rulers, as the other Empires have been shown to do from time to time, and move on. Last his army knew, he was off to chase down the OOTS... and simply never returned.

If you want to see Tarquin get his comeuppance, that's a way to do it. The one character in the entire story who is THE most obsessed with proper narrative... never getting an ending, never getting even a mention, again.

And for Julio specifically, this is also a very character-appropriate next step in the plot for him, as a Heroic Figure in general and as Elan's Mentor specifically.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm hoping Julio doesn't actually use puns at all, but instead "spouts a catch-phrase (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html)."

So will Elan receive the bonus if he says "Roy has boobies!" when he attacks?

[Forikroder]

(x-post from main 930 thread, but this applies to Julio too, since we're talking about 4th-wall-aware characters...)

One option is not for Julio to sacrifice himself or otherwise fulfill any sort of foreshadowing about him dying due to standard tropes.

Spoiler tags to conserve space, since I'm x-posting...

Julio doesn't have to die to help out Elan and the OOTS. He simply needs to keep Tarquin occupied indefinitely, until the OOTS can escape on the airship. (Fill in your own satisfying nullification / dismissal / destruction of Laurin here.)

In fact, let me go one notch further, and go meta a bit. Tarquin's whole plotline is about him assuming the story is all about him. Multiple posters (myself included) have theorized various ignoble deaths for Tarquin, such that he dies in disgrace, ignominy, or both... but what if one breaks the 4th wall a bit and goes further than that?

What if the most karmically appropriate end to the whole Tarquin storyline, is if the OOTS take off in Julio's airship... looking behind them to see Julio madly dueling Tarquin (think, "deny, deny, deny" that Elan has done before) to keep him occupied... increasingly furious at an increasingly silly and maddening pun duel... fading into the distance and dust as the OOTS literally ride off into the sunset...

...and then neither Tarquin nor Julio are ever seen or heard from in the comic again?

THAT would be the ultimate disgrace for Tarquin. That would be the ultimate relegation of Tarquin to side-quest, b-plot, backstory, XP-generator status. He is neither the victor nor the loser. He is Schrodinger's Plot Thread. He gets no resolution. He deserves no resolution.

His son learns whatever lessons he will learn from it, and move on. The OOTS get whatever XP they get, and move on. The Empire of Blood simply swaps out rulers, as the other Empires have been shown to do from time to time, and move on. Last his army knew, he was off to chase down the OOTS... and simply never returned.

If you want to see Tarquin get his comeuppance, that's a way to do it. The one character in the entire story who is THE most obsessed with proper narrative... never getting an ending, never getting even a mention, again.

And for Julio specifically, this is also a very character-appropriate next step in the plot for him, as a Heroic Figure in general and as Elan's Mentor specifically.

but then theres noone to take down his evil empire and he lives happily ever after while tramping on his citizens until he grows old and passes away peacefully...

[Spoomeister]

but then theres noone to take down his evil empire and he lives happily ever after while tramping on his citizens until he grows old and passes away peacefully...

No, see, that's my point. He doesn't go back to his empire to live happily ever after. He doesn't get an ending. He doesn't get an anything. He's left unfinished, and he's eventually forgotten.

[luna the cat]

I'm hoping Julio doesn't actually use puns at all, but instead "spouts a catch-phrase (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html)."

Tarquin: How dare you come now, of all times?
Julio: Zip it up, and zip it down! *stab*
Tarquin: How did you even get here? *slash*
Julio: Did I do that? *parry*
Tarquin: Hey now! That's a totally different character! You can't use a different character's catchphrase!
Julio: Mentos! The... freshmaker! *stab*
Tarquin: That's not even a catchphrase! That's a tagline! Argh, you're not even following the rules of your own stupid prestige class!

:elan: Annoy my father into breaking concentration by not following the rules or listening to him! Genius!

[Forikroder]

No, see, that's my point. He doesn't go back to his empire to live happily ever after. He doesn't get an ending. He doesn't get an anything. He's left unfinished, and he's eventually forgotten.

that makes no sense Tarquin isnt going to stop existing just because hes not in the story, its like saying that everything that isnt currently shown on panel doesnt actually exist

if the OoTS leave Tarquin just goes back to the EoB

[Havokca]

i think everyone underestimates Julio's chances of living, I have not read all of the forum, but I would guess that he is at least 17th level, 10 as dashing swordsman and at least 7 as a fighter. not to mention the magic items he must be packing after years of travelling. and seeing as he has faced Tarquin and survived before, I personally rate them as equals. :smallcool:

I think it's entirely possible that they're each other's nemesis. Especially given some of the potential reasons why his pictures were in Elan's mother's drawer, and Tarquin's mention of him having fought a pun-duel before.

[MReav]

Some part of me sees this happening:

*Julio and Tarquin fight, Julio has to sacrifice himself to let The Order escape. Elan is saddened, and swears that once Xykon is finished, he'll come back and personally deal with his father.*

*Cut back to Tarquin and Julio's corpse.*

Julio (faking being dead): Did it work?

Tarquin (using a spyglass to read Elan's lips): He's swearing vengeance on me as we speak.

[henrykazuka]

It depends on whether or not Mentor Occupational Hazard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) trumps a hand with Big Damn Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigDamnHeroes), an Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee) and a Chekhov's Gun. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun)

If Julio says he'll hold off Tarquin so Elan can escape (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouShallNotPass), he's doomed. But if Julio invokes a personal grudge against Tarquin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsPersonal), he has a solid chance of winning.

Candle Jack... you magnificent bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)!

oh man, i'll be spending tonight on Tv tropes AGAIN...

[Oko and Qailee]

"most likely". Perhaps there's a one in a million chance that he'll survive, so yeah...

One in a million? Then it's a sure thing!

[tcrudisi]

There's no way we don't get to see Elan and Julio tag-teaming Tarquin with puns. While Tarq held off Elan with ease before, I think their combined wordplay would overwhelm even his wit.

This, please. Oh god, this needs to happen SO VERY MUCH.

Giant, please, I beg of you, make it happen.

[Amphiox]

That said who is there to help Julio? Roy is on his last legs. as is Belkar. Elan can't hit Tarquin as we saw on the balcony scene. Durkon is without a weapon and Haley is not the best when it comes to hitting Tarquin. And V is definitely out of it unless anyone can challenge Laurin.


All he has to do is throw a potion or two Roy's way. Surely on that big airship of his he has a stash of potions, somewhere?

[Ramien]

Just a request, can we please refer to Julio Scoundrél by his full and proper name? It just doesn't sound right to call him just 'Julio.' It's like Antonio Banderas... Who really should play the dashing captain of the Mechane in any telvisied or filmed adaptation

[Trillium]

(x-post from main 930 thread, but this applies to Julio too, since we're talking about 4th-wall-aware characters...)

One option is not for Julio to sacrifice himself or otherwise fulfill any sort of foreshadowing about him dying due to standard tropes.

Spoiler tags to conserve space, since I'm x-posting...

Julio doesn't have to die to help out Elan and the OOTS. He simply needs to keep Tarquin occupied indefinitely, until the OOTS can escape on the airship. (Fill in your own satisfying nullification / dismissal / destruction of Laurin here.)

In fact, let me go one notch further, and go meta a bit. Tarquin's whole plotline is about him assuming the story is all about him. Multiple posters (myself included) have theorized various ignoble deaths for Tarquin, such that he dies in disgrace, ignominy, or both... but what if one breaks the 4th wall a bit and goes further than that?

What if the most karmically appropriate end to the whole Tarquin storyline, is if the OOTS take off in Julio's airship... looking behind them to see Julio madly dueling Tarquin (think, "deny, deny, deny" that Elan has done before) to keep him occupied... increasingly furious at an increasingly silly and maddening pun duel... fading into the distance and dust as the OOTS literally ride off into the sunset...

...and then neither Tarquin nor Julio are ever seen or heard from in the comic again?

THAT would be the ultimate disgrace for Tarquin. That would be the ultimate relegation of Tarquin to side-quest, b-plot, backstory, XP-generator status. He is neither the victor nor the loser. He is Schrodinger's Plot Thread. He gets no resolution. He deserves no resolution.

His son learns whatever lessons he will learn from it, and move on. The OOTS get whatever XP they get, and move on. The Empire of Blood simply swaps out rulers, as the other Empires have been shown to do from time to time, and move on. Last his army knew, he was off to chase down the OOTS... and simply never returned.

If you want to see Tarquin get his comeuppance, that's a way to do it. The one character in the entire story who is THE most obsessed with proper narrative... never getting an ending, never getting even a mention, again.

And for Julio specifically, this is also a very character-appropriate next step in the plot for him, as a Heroic Figure in general and as Elan's Mentor specifically.

Actually, a nice idea.

To justify it in-comic, it may happen that while EoB was left unattended, some one (maybe even the Empress herself; or maybe pissed-off memebers of Team Tarquin; or maybe Ian Starshine) initiated a revolt, and assumed command. And when Tarquin comes back to the crater - there's no army, it has been called back to Bleedingham. No one needs him, no one cares for him anymore, he ain't no main villain, no legend and even no king.

[The Pilgrim]

Julio is just doing a crossover here in order to fight a recurrent villiain of his.

It's safe for him.

[Jay R]

Some part of me sees this happening:

*Julio and Tarquin fight, Julio has to sacrifice himself to let The Order escape. Elan is saddened, and swears that once Xykon is finished, he'll come back and personally deal with his father.*

*Cut back to Tarquin and Julio's corpse.*

Julio (faking being dead): Did it work?

Tarquin (using a spyglass to read Elan's lips): He's swearing vengeance on me as we speak.

I really like this.

[Nilan8888]

My gut -- and it really only is a gut feeling -- is that nobody further will be killed for the remainder of the book, unless it's Belkar.

Tarquin, I think, is too relevant a foe to not be taken into the final climax, although he's not the main villain. And although there's something to be said for Julio's reference to the trope of the older mentor figure dying so the younger hero can declare revenge, I'm not sure it works for mentor figures that have been featured so little as Julio. He was only in the comic once for a brief period, and we've only just now run into him again. If he's going to die in the story, I think we'd need to spend a little more time with him for his death to mean that much more to us.

So my thinking is that NOBODY will die from here on out, unless Belkar's prophecy gets fulfilled at the very, very end of the book somehow.