Adamantine and Mithral melting point

[Red Bear]

Has anyone ever thought about the possible melting point of mithral and adamantine?
What temperature can the fire breath by a dragon reach?
Does it melt mithral or adamantine?
Is there any "official" information on the topic?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Mithral is similar enough to a high-grade aluminum alloy that using something like that as a basis might work. It's still much lighter than that though.

Adamantine on the other hand defies physics on such a basic level that you're just going to have make something up.

[Knaight]

Assuming that this is for D&D - as far as I know, there is no official information. I'd probably just pull from real metals in cases like these - Tungsten and Titanium are obvious contenders, though I could easily go with Aluminum instead of Titanium for Mithral. There are also alternatives to Tungsten for Adamantine, but Tungsten is one of my favorite metals, and as such pretty much holds first pick. Particularly when other favorite metals include Beryllium and Mercury, which aren't even roughly analogous.

[Shalist]

Most objects take 1/2 damage from fire, and additionally iron and steel have a hardness of 10, compared to 15 and 20 for mithril and adamantine, respectively. For comparison, copper, bronze, gold, silver have a hardness of 2, 3-5, 5, and 8 respectively (per 3rd party, 'stone and steel').

Incidentally, this means the breath of a red or gold wyrmling (2d10) could warp or melt softer metals, but is still just insufficient to damage steel; while a very young red/gold is still stymied by adamantine (4d10). Brass dragons can't deform steel until they're juveniles (4d6), and need to be mature adults (7d6) before they can tackle adamantine.

[Averis Vol]

Most objects take 1/2 damage from fire, and additionally iron and steel have a hardness of 10, compared to 15 and 20 for mithril and adamantine, respectively. For comparison, copper, bronze, gold, silver have a hardness of 2, 3-5, 5, and 8 respectively (per 3rd party, 'stone and steel').

Incidentally, this means the breath of a red or gold wyrmling (2d10) could warp or melt softer metals, but is still just insufficient to damage steel; while a very young red/gold is still stymied by adamantine (4d10). Brass dragons can't deform steel until they're juveniles (4d6), and need to be mature adults (7d6) before they can tackle adamantine.

I actually really like that analysis. Might use it when my game comes off hiatus.

[Lyndworm]

I'll make a table!

{table=head]Material | Hardness | Source

Adamantine | 20 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Bone | 6/3 | DMG/SBG

Bronze | 9 | DMG

Crystal, Deep | 10 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm)

Crystal, Mundane | 8 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm)

Glass | 1 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Hide | 2 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Ice | 0/10 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)/SBG

Iron or Steel | 10 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Mithral | 15 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Obdurium | 30 | SBG

Silver, Alchemical | 8 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#silverAlchemical)

Stone | 8 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)

Wood | 5 | SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems)[/table]

[GungHo]

Given that they're magical and no one could really argue "realities" with you, I'd say they melt at whatever temperature the story requires. Furthermore, I'd even say you could vary it within the same story or even say it's affected by nautral heat differently than magical heat, or that fire won't work but lava will.

[Frozen_Feet]

Based on above, you could multiply steel's melting point by 1.5. Hardness is iffy as measure of heat resistance, though: gold's softer than steel, but has considerably higher melting point.

Plus, burning and melting are two different processes. Carbon oxicides (=burns) at few hundred degrees, but melts at four thousand. Aluminum and titanium likewise burn easier than they melt, which is why you need shielding gases to weld them.

[Joe the Rat]

Mithral = Aluminum and Adamantine = Tungsten is a good starting point for traits. Especially for Adamantine. Having a metal that "freezes" when poured onto magma is awesome.

[Scow2]

Mithral = AluminumTry Titanium instead. Mithril is described as "Strong as steel, half the weight". My manufacturing material books describe Titanium primarily "As strong as [common steel], but half the weight", in addition to a number of other factors useful for engineers.

[Ravens_cry]

Try Titanium instead. Mithril is described as "Strong as steel, half the weight". My manufacturing material books describe Titanium primarily "As strong as [common steel], but half the weight", in addition to a number of other factors useful for engineers.
So, in an alternate reality, Akula attack submarines would have Mithril hulls.:smalltongue:

[Scow2]

So, in an alternate reality, Akula attack submarines would have Mithril hulls.:smalltongue:

I think it's different names for the same material. And, if so... can Mithril come in Chameleon?

[Ravens_cry]

I think it's different names for the same material. And, if so... can Mithril come in Chameleon?
Since elves use it, probably.:smallbiggrin:

[Adoendithas]

I'd go with Aluminum because historically it's been treated as extremely valuable, whereas Titanium has only been used fairly recently.

Also, it would give mithril an interesting weakness in the form of electricity. :)

[Orami]

Based on above, you could multiply steel's melting point by 1.5. Hardness is iffy as measure of heat resistance, though: gold's softer than steel, but has considerably higher melting point.

Plus, burning and melting are two different processes. Carbon oxicides (=burns) at few hundred degrees, but melts at four thousand. Aluminum and titanium likewise burn easier than they melt, which is why you need shielding gases to weld them.

I am researching this exact topic for a game I am coding - gold's melting point is 1948 degrees while steel is slightly less than iron at 2750 degrees. So that info you gave - at least in the real world is way off, but since you are talking games you can change that around. Although I like the other guy's post saying titanium for mithral. Smelting alloys will be important in my game - and left up to the players so this should be a good starting point for me as well. Now to find what woods burn at high enough temperatures to melt some of these ores...

[Gizmogidget]

if you determine the dragons breath is 2270 degrees Fahrenheit or whatever then what about other items surely such items on a character including glass and parchment would instantly be burned away unless you required saving throws which would make the game arduous.

[Aetol]

The problem with "mithral = aluminum" is that aluminum has a low melting point (660 °C / 1220 °F).

[Cirrylius]

Having a metal that "freezes" when poured onto magma is awesome.
Oh my yes. Doing the magma forge and adamantium setting tropes at the same time is like peanut butter and chocolate.

[charcoalninja]

Has anyone ever thought about the possible melting point of mithral and adamantine?
What temperature can the fire breath by a dragon reach?
Does it melt mithral or adamantine?
Is there any "official" information on the topic?

In my world Adamantite requires such high temporatures to forge that people exposed to the heat take 1d6 damage per round of exposure just as if on the elemental plane of fire. This means that in order to forge Adamant you need either a tonne of magic, or a fire resistant creature like the Azer or Fire Giants.

[Seharvepernfan]

Heh, I've thought about this as well. I raised the DC's of mithril items by 5 and adamantine by 10. For adamantine, you need a source of extreme heat to forge it, like a blast furnace, lava, red dragon breath, fire elemental bound forge, etc.

I also use glassteel, which is 20 higher, and requires you to bind an outsider to yourself in order to smith it.

[Sacrieur]

Well that's the problem isn't it.

The actual "hardness" of an object will vary based on its temperature. It's not like a light switch where at one minute adamantine is super tough then the next it's a puddle of hot liquid.

It should be noted that the amount of damage necessary to ruin an object doesn't mean you're necessarily melting it, maybe just warping or bending it.

---

Tungsten is also my favorite choice. And it's not likely you're going to be doing any metalworking with it without some kind of magical crucible.

[Knaight]

Heh, I've thought about this as well. I raised the DC's of mithril items by 5 and adamantine by 10. For adamantine, you need a source of extreme heat to forge it, like a blast furnace, lava, red dragon breath, fire elemental bound forge, etc.

I also use glassteel, which is 20 higher, and requires you to bind an outsider to yourself in order to smith it.

You need a blast furnace just to do much with larger steel pieces, I'd recommend cranking temperature requirements up a bit - maybe you need to get special alchemists equipment to burn things, which could represent something like heating via burning acetylene, or magnesium fires, or other very high temperature processes.

[Telonius]

For what it's worth, Dwarf Fortress sets the melting point of Adamantine at 25,000 degrees Urist. EDIT: Found the proper conversion: 8333 Celsius, 15032 Fahrenheit.

[ZamielVanWeber]

For what it's worth, Dwarf Fortress sets the melting point of Adamantine at 25,000 degrees Urist. EDIT: Found the proper conversion: 8333 Celsius, 15032 Fahrenheit.

That is hotter than the surface of the sun. Seems like an unsafe environment to work.

[Telonius]

That is hotter than the surface of the sun. Seems like an unsafe environment to work.

Well, it is Dwarf Fortress. :smallbiggrin:

[Elkad]

For what it's worth, Dwarf Fortress sets the melting point of Adamantine at 25,000 degrees Urist. EDIT: Found the proper conversion: 8333 Celsius, 15032 Fahrenheit.

That isn't a terrible answer. Highest known melting point is about half that (7460F)
It could be set somewhat lower, but then with an additional restriction. For example, you can't melt carbon in one atmosphere, it goes directly to vapor. You need high pressure as well to get liquid carbon.

Say 5000C (or K, only 273 degrees difference, not much at those temperatures), and 100 atmospheres for Adamantium. That's like working inside a half-full scuba tank. Or 1000m under the sea.

You know, that isn't even that hard to do for dwarves. Build deep (1000m+) U-shaped well, open on one end only. Put your forge at the top of the other (closed) end. Insert dwarf, his ore, heating equipment (magical of course, you have to make temperature after all), and whatever else he needs at the forge. Now fill the whole thing with water (slowly!) until he has a tiny space left to work in. Tada, his atmosphere is pressurized. The fire reduces the partial O2 pressure at the same time (you'd need to math some, and carefully control your fuel), so the oxygen isn't toxic. Gets easier if he has a Necklace of Adaption.

[Melcar]

Has anyone ever thought about the possible melting point of mithral and adamantine?
What temperature can the fire breath by a dragon reach?
Does it melt mithral or adamantine?
Is there any "official" information on the topic?

In terms of Adamantine I would look into the comic book world. Has it not been mentioned at what temperature adamantium melts? I would think so. Mithral, I think titanium works there.

[Cirrylius]

In terms of Adamantine I would look into the comic book world. Has it not been mentioned at what temperature adamantium melts? I would think so. Mithral, I think titanium works there.

IIRC in the comics, (the metal that people think of as) adamantium doesn't melt- it just gets to the point where whatever medium is carrying the heat is hitting the adamantium hard enough to deform or destroy it, or, in other words, its melting point is equivalent to its invulnerability to everything short of Thor in his big-boy pants.

If you're talking about the other varieties of adamantium, the "secondary adamantium"s or the various other Adamantium Lites that have been used to explain instances of adamantium being destroyed by beings who arent gods or reality warpers or... evil magnetic Jesus, then I couldn't say.