[PF] Grab w/ Tentacles and Swallow Whole

[Crustypeanut]

Quick question for you guys.

DMing a campaign, and I am currently throwing a beast at the players which has a combination of Tentacles and Bite for its attacks - all five tentacles and its bite have the Grab Feature, and the creature also has Swallow Whole.

Now, the question is - someone got grappled by a tentacle and pulled adjacent to the creature. They are still grappled. In order to swallow that person whole, would the creature need to simply succeed on another grapple check, or does it need to initiate the grapple check with it's bite attack instead of a tentacle?

For reference, the creature is a Giant Dust Digger, and the person grappled is the druid's medium-sized Spinosaurus Animal Companion.

[ImaDeadMan]

Here is the ruling I found on "swallow whole": "If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent held in its mouth (see Improved Grab), it can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage. Unless otherwise noted, the opponent can be up to one size category smaller than the swallowing creature. Being swallowed has various consequences, depending on the creature doing the swallowing. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while the creature that did the swallowing is not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is noted in the creature description), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a creature that swallows whole is normally 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again."

Check the monster manuals for specific examples on how "swallow whole" works. For example, the Orcwort can swallow a creature whole by succeeding on a grapple check while the creature is in its mouth. How the Orcwort gets the creature there is defined under the Improved Grab entry it has. It states: "If an Orcwort hits a Gargantuan or smaller creature with a slam attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it gets hold, it can transfer the opponent into its maw in the next round" (MM 2).

I would imagine your creature would function the same way since your creature uses tentacles and the Orcwort uses it's roots and vines. Since your creature succeeded on the grapple check and is holding the PC, at the start of its next turn it can place the PC in its mouth. Due to turn order, the PC will go again before this happens and if the player succeeds on the grapple check to get out on his turn then he will not be in danger of being swallowed. If the PC fails the check on his turn, then on the monster's turn he will be placed in the monster's mouth. Once there, the monster must succeed on a grapple check to swallow the PC.

[Crustypeanut]

Ah see this is Pathfinder.. it doesn't mention anything about transfering creatures to their maws. BUT.. it does make perfect sense..

And actually, the Animal Companion got grabbed during an AoO - so the Dust Digger will be going before it. XD

So, on the Dust Digger's turn, it would transfer the Animal to its maw as part of the grapple check, and then it would do its "Graption" of swallowing it whole? (Graption being the action it gets while grappling - such as moving, attacking, or trying to pin)

That sound right?

Or would the Graption be the act of transfering it to the mouth, gaining a bite attack in all likelyhood as it does so?

[ImaDeadMan]

In 3.5 rules, the grapple check to swallow would occur immediately at the start of the creature's turn and IIRC, it's a free action so that would mean the creature still has a full turn to utilize. The check to swallow the PC acts as if the creature is trying to pin him.

[Crustypeanut]

Alright then.

So, heres what happens on the Dust Digger's turn next round, should the players not somehow kill it before it gets its turn:

First, the Dust Digger Maintains its Grapple (+21 to do so) on the Spinosaurus. Upon doing so, it deals Grab Damage equal to it's Tentacle, simply for maintaining the Grapple.

Next, it chooses to "Pin" the Spinosaurus using its "Swallow Whole" ability - should it succeed, it will swallow the Spinosaurus Whole, also dealing Bite Damage at the same time.

Sounds right then, aye?

Also, while swallowed, does the Spinosaurus take damage on ITS turn, or the Dust Digger's turn? I'm assuming the latter.

[Crustypeanut]

Heh they might end up killing this thing before it gets the chance after all - the ranger just threw on 26 damage in one round with his composite longbow, and the Barbarian and Fighter both get to go before the Dust Digger.

[ImaDeadMan]

The Dust Digger will not deal bite damage if it swallows the target. If it chooses to bite the target instead of swallowing it then yes, bite damage will be dealt. Upon swallowing the PC, the PC immediately takes the damage from the Dust Digger's stomach acids and takes the damage again on each of the Dust digger's turns there-after until the PC breaks free by making a few successful grapple checks or cutting his way out with a light slashing or piercing weapon.

[Crustypeanut]

Actually the Swallow Whole ability specifically states that it deals bite damage when swallowing it - that part it is specific on.


If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent grappled in its mouth (see Grab), it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage.

Meaning it'll take both Grab and Bite damage in that round, essentially - just like how normally it would take Grab damage and then potentially damage from one of the creature's other attacks. That part I have down - this is just the first time I have used Swallow Whole.

I had originally intended for it to swallow one of the player's camels.. and then the group went and charged it recklessly. Haha XD

[ImaDeadMan]

Well your group sounds rather... brave. But anyway, yes you're right about that damage. I went back and took a look to confirm.

[Keneth]

If I understand the situation correctly, it should resolve thusly:

Companion charged the dust digger, got grabbed by an AoO, and moved to an adjacent square as part of the grapple maneuver.
On the dust digger's turn, it rolls a combat maneuver attack to maintain the grapple with its bite instead, dealing bite damage as appropriate.
Another turn later, the animal companion now being grappled in the digger's mouth can be swallowed whole, dealing bite damage along the way.
On the digger's next turn, if the companion is still swallowed, it deals damage listed in its stat block.

You can't swallow a monster in one round unless you grabbed it with your bite to begin with.

[Crustypeanut]

Hmmm that also makes sense.

The tentacles, then, would be used for getting them closer to the mouth - since next round, the Dust Digger can drop grapple as a free action, bite the animal companion to grab a hold of it, and then the round after, swallow it.

The same round as it drops grapple to bite again, it can make a full attack action - using the bite to grab onto the companion, while the tentacles try and pull others closer.

[Keneth]

It certainly can, yes. That of course runs a higher risk of you missing the animal companion with your bite attack, or failing to grapple it again. Simply switching the grapple to bite can be done at CMB+5.