First Time Running Kingmaker (and Pathfinder). Any Advice?

[Afool]

Hello Playground.

I'm a semi-experienced GM who's run a few games of 3.5, though it's been a while. I've recently received the opportunity to GM a game and I thought I'd go with Pathfinder using the Kingmaker adventure path (Stolen Land) as I've heard good things about them both.

I am familiar with at least some of the changes Paizo has made (I've read through most of the prd (http://paizo.com/prd/)), but I'm looking for advice on anything I should keep an eye out for as well as things I should keep in mind with the system change and the module itself.

Thanks in advance :smallbiggrin:

[CockroachTeaParty]

I would take a look at the PFSRD or Ultimate Campaign for the revised rules on kingdom building. The rules provided in the Kingmaker AP were a 'first draft' with loopholes that can be exploited. I would consider using the revised, updated kingdom making rules; they're a bit more forgiving in most regards, open up a few new kingdom roles, and give you more reasons to take non-plains or non-hills hexes.

That said, if your players aren't into the kingdom making rules, feel free to just use the 'kingdom in the background' option and focus on adventuring.

The shift to PF from 3.5 is largely seamless. The biggest areas you should familiarize yourself with are the CMB/CMD mechanics, the changes to how Concentration works, and the change to certain popular feats such as Cleave and Power Attack.

[Afool]

Thanks for the response :smallsmile:

I spent some time reading the kingdom rules Ultimate in the prd from Ultimate Campaign and I find them amazing.

I thought I was familiar with CMB/CMD and most of the common feat changes but I looked at them again and I now realize I needed the refresher (the change with Concentration I am well familiar with as I've tried to make a caster or two for a few pbp and while they never panned out, I made sure I knew when I should/could cast).

[Keneth]

Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast, faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck.

Anyway, Kingmaker is a pretty open campaign. It gives you lots of freedom to adapt to your players, so don't just blindly follow the script.

[BWR]

3.5 -> PF is generally pretty smooth, but there are a number of changes that can surprise you. In general, if you are planning something, take a quick look over the relevant rules to make sure you are running it right. There are a number of changes which are mostly minor, and playing with 3.5 rules will generally not cause the game to stall.

Apart from checking the combat maneuvers, it's often a good idea to check spells. Some have a bit different effects than they used to, for good or ill (generally for good, imo).

[Afool]

Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast, faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink. Good luck.


:smallamused: I once won a staring contest with a security camera so I think I'll be good.


3.5 -> PF is generally pretty smooth, but there are a number of changes that can surprise you. In general, if you are planning something, take a quick look over the relevant rules to make sure you are running it right. There are a number of changes which are mostly minor, and playing with 3.5 rules will generally not cause the game to stall.

Thanks for the advice, though to be honest I'm dreading looking through the spell list because there's just so much and I know I'll take it all in one sitting and it'll be like TVtropes all over again :smalltongue:

[BWR]

Which is why you don't look them all up at once. Do it on a case by case basis. If your npcs have certain spells or feats or items, look them up to make sure you know how they work, and hope that your players take care of their own stuff. Don't worry about learning everything at once. As I said, even if you end up using a 3.5 rule instead of a PF rule, the game will handle it.

[Keneth]

I don't know how relevant it still is after more than 4 years, but you can always check out the Pathfinder Conversion Guide (http://paizo.com/products/btpy89m6).

[Akal Saris]

Other people have given some PF advice, so I'll give some Kingmaker-specific thoughts. For background, I have run a Kingmaker campaign for the past 1.5 years for 1 new player and 2 very experienced players, who are currently about 75% through the 4th module.

It's taken quite a while since the open nature of the campaign along with the terrific support materials from Paizo and third party sources means that we've spent numerous sessions on storylines that are outside of the original AP.

1) There is a Kingmaker sub-forum on the Paizo forums with tons of good info: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker

In particular, I recommend the additions to the 2nd module by one GM: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ljy6?My-Changes-to-RRR-Hargulkas-Monster-Kingdom

2) I highly recommend getting a copy of Paizo's "Guide to the River Kingdoms" if you want to turn the game into more of a "Game of Thrones"/Birthright feel with other lords active nearby. The 3rd party source "Book of the River Nations" is also good for expanding the ruleset and giving mini-adventure ideas. I don't think my PCs would even recognize a Kingmaker campaign played without these kingdoms active.

3) Setting up the story: One of the most common complaints about Kingmaker is that the final villain comes way out of left field. So I suggest seeding earlier modules with references to her and her main lieutenants far in advance. I made her a rival of Vordekai (the 3rd module villain), for example.

4) The rules for kingdom-building are easily unbalanced by the ease of money access from selling magical items. Various fixes have been suggested on forums. I changed the formula to:
Minor - 2 GB
Medium - 4 GB
Major - 8GB

This had the effect of preserving the usefulness of magic item sales early on, but has slowed the expansion of the PCs' kingdom by a bit in the mid-late game.

5) Try to develop the minor NPCs into "living" parts of the kingdom. For example, in my game, 1 former bandit has become the mayor of a PCs' town and got married, Oleg and Svetlana are expecting a child soon, and in 2 months one of the players' characters will marry an NPC from a Brevoy noble house.

6) If it's useful, here are some other minor errata I made to buildings based on developer comments on the Paizo forums (these are to weaken the effectiveness of some of the very strong buildings, and to make some of the worst buildings more useful):

Barracks (6 BP from 12 BP):Defense Modifier +2; Unrest –1.

Black Market (50 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A number of shops with secret and usually illegal or dangerous wares. City base value +2,000; 2 minor items, 1
medium item, 1 major item; Economy +2, Stability +1; Unrest +4. (From Unrest +1)

Caster’s Tower (36 BP from 30 BP): 3 minor items, 2 medium items; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

Dump (4 BP to 6 BP): Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

Exotic Craftsman (10 BP, 1 farm):1 minor item, +1 Economy, +1 Stability (from +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty)

Graveyard (4 BP): +1 loyalty (from Econ +1, Loyalty +1)

Magic Shop (72 BP from 68 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): City base value +2,000 gp; 4 minor items, 2 medium items, 1 major item; Economy +1.

Watchtower (12 BP from 6 BP): +1 Stability; +2 Defense Modifier; Unrest –1.