Julio will kill Tarquin

[Lord]

Well with all the people convinced of the great dashing swordsman's death, I figure I'll put in a bit of hope.

Think about it, Tarquin is a total believer in TV tropes and such, to the point where he's based his whole evil plan around it. Everyone knows that the hero's mentor can kill less important villains, but always dies to the main villain in front of the Hero.

Yet Tarquin ISN'T the main villain, he's a side villain who is deluding himself regarding his importance to the plot. Meanwhile Elan quite clearly thinks of himself as a supporting protagonist at most, if not an outright plucky comedy relief character.

Can a heroes mentor kill a main villain? Probably not, but a side villain with no personal connection to the main hero, an overbearing ego and delusions of grandeur? That's perfect fodder for showing how awesome the retired badass is, and it will make his defeat by the REAL main villain all the more scary.

I can think of no better way for Tarquin to die.

What do you think?

[The Oni]

It's an idea, and it's even likely to work because Tarquin's not going to expect Julio to be a threat in the first place for that very reason. But there's so many other possibilities.

[Nightsbridge]

I think it would be lovely. And there are things that could be done to the body that would render Resurrection improbable, that Durkula at least would have no problem doing, dispelling Haley's worry over what was likely to happen if they just straight up killed Tarquin.

Also, he deserves to die to a side character. It will be beautiful.

[StLordeth]

I hope Tarquin isn't offed right now, especially by Julio. But I expect that more than the opposite, I firmly do not believe Julio will die here.

[Koo Rehtorb]

That would be as unsatisfying as Obi-Wan killing Darth Vader would have been.

[Mike Havran]

I think it is quite likely. I'd bet Tarquin won't be killed by anyone from the Order - in all 930 strips, they weren't able to permanently off any important antagonist (Roy did kill Xykon, but he got better). And I don't expect them to off any villiain either (except Xykon, again).

[The Pilgrim]

This is a crossover.

No one is going to die here.

[Synesthesy]

I think that a great death against son's mentor (and good father figure) is too much for Tarquin.

However, I really hope that Julio doesn't die. In fact, I'm sure the Giant won't do something too predictable.

I hope to have said it right, I don't know good how it sound in english, sorry.

[Knight.Anon]

A maxed out Dashing Swordsman is dangerous. Julio is probably epic can stunlock and keep tripping Tarquin. Julio has a huge critical range with extra damage. Julio gets to roll twice on virtually everything and pick his number. Unless Tarquin is also twinked out he's neutralized. Its hard to think of somebody more dangerous in a 1-1 fight. Laurin will also have a hard time getting past Julio's saving throws, since he gets to roll twice.

[Runeclaw]

Where are you getting all that? Dashing Swordsman isn't a real Prestige Class, and the only thing I can remember us being told about it in-strip is that is allows you (presumably at level 1) to substitute Charisma for Strength for damage bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html).

If you're citing some other write-up - do we know that it's what the Giant is using?

Edited to add: Also, regardless of which write-up one is using, I'm quite certain that it's easy to think of people who are more dangerous in a one-on-one fight. Such as wizards. Druids. Clerics. Sorcerers. Etc.

[Synesthesy]

Where are you getting all that? Dashing Swordsman isn't a real Prestige Class, and the only thing I can remember us being told about it in-strip is that is allows you (presumably at level 1) to substitute Charisma for Strength for damage bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html).

If you're citing some other write-up - do we know that it's what the Giant is using?

In reality, that class gives you immunity from glass-broken damage. And I don't remember anything else.

[Knight.Anon]

I have no idea if this is official or not but...

http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Dashing_Swordsman

[Runeclaw]

If it's not published on this site, it's not official.

Looks like someone just taking the scrap of info published in the strip and fleshing it out. Doesn't mean it's what the Giant envisions the class to be (to the extent that he's even thinking in terms of 3.5 rules mechanics any more).

Even if we knew what Julio was capable of, the outcome of the fight would be determined by the Giant's storytelling choices not rules mechanics. Since we don't know what he's capable of, this is even more true.

Edit: Actually, that write-up doesn't even get the one thing that we know about the class - that it allows you to substitute your Charisma for Strength on damage - right.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

Even if Dashing swordsman was a real prestige class, Rich would probably ignore those rules and let the fight be dictated by what he wants to happen. He's said he doesn't really care too much about the rules anymore. EDIT: Ninja'd. Sorta.

Regarding the OP, there's a good chance that that will happen. But I get the feeling Tarquin isn't gonna be killed off quite yet...

[Runeclaw]

Also "Julio is probably epic" is based on what?

[Kornaki]

Also "Julio is probably epic" is based on what?

It seems reasonable since he's the 32nd best swordsman in the world or something, and dashing swordsman won't let him fight as well as a fighter of equal level, so he must have a couple levels up on almost everybody in the world.

[Mike Havran]

Also, the DS entry has it wrong when it comes to wearing armor. For Dashing Swordsmen, armor interferes with their class abilities (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html).

[Knight.Anon]

Julio appears to be Tarquin's nemesis, so he should be the same level as Tarquin. Tarquin seems to be annoyed by Julio (mini-tantrum), Julio knows Tarquin and doesn't seem intimidated by him (epic entrance).

I said I didn't know if it the prestige class was official or not, I see it as a good starting point. I wish the article had a source. Obviously the Giant decides what's what - trumping even the 3.5 rules, its his strip. I assume speculation on a take or leave it basis is fair game though as well. The class seems to be overpowered enough to fit the bill on a casual reading.

Dashing Strike allows the user to add their CHA (in addition to the usual bonuses (I love that)). The armor thing is a good catch though.

I got some feedback on that article - so mission accomplished I suppose.

[jere7my]

That would be as unsatisfying as Obi-Wan killing Darth Vader would have been.

No, it would be as unsatisfying as Obi-Wan killing Walrus Man (or Ponda Baba for the EU kids). Tarquin thinks he's Vader, but he's a speedbump. That's kinda the point.

[Warren Dew]

Resolving the arc through a fight between two NPCs would seem rather a copout to me. Of course, that probably just guarantees it will happen.

[Bravo]

I'll repeat what I said in the thread for the strip:


Well, to be fair, Scoundrél is a father figure to Elan, who admitted that he has kids in every continent and noted that Elan reminded him of himself, who shares Elan's enthusiasm for drama and such, whose pictures are in Elan's mother's drawer and who Tarquin has evidently tangled with. Plus, nothing says "you weren't as important to the plot as you thought you were" as much as "you got smacked down by the dude who had been porking your ex-wife".

Heck, even the fact that Elan is the spitting image of Tarquin could be explained: when you have twins in a family, there DOES tend to be more... it's a comic full of stick figures: give someone a tan and grow out some hair and anyone could be anyone's twin. Then again, Tarquin could be Elan and Nale's father and Julio is just the guy who broke up his marriage. That could also work.

Anyway, I'm not saying that this IS the case, I'm just saying that if the next page revealed this to be the case, I'd consider there to have been ample foreshadowing to be able to accept it as reasonable. It'd certainly be an interesting twist.

And whether or not the above theory is true, Julio defeating Tarquin would be fitting since it bypasses Tarquin's win/win scenario and makes him look like some chump that the legendary Captain Scoundrél defeated in an afternoon while on his way to visit a friend.

[Ghost Nappa]

Resolving the arc through a fight between two NPCs would seem rather a copout to me. Of course, that probably just guarantees it will happen.

Soon Vs. Xykon & Redcloak Vs. Miko

[Fenyang]

Another (remote) possibility is that Julio will convince Tarquin that he isn´t the main villain in the story. Once he notices that, he gives up about killing Roy and heads back home, to solve this.... issue.

[Amphiox]

I don't think Tarquin is likely to die here for the simple reason that if it ever got to the point where it looks like Tarquin is in danger of dying at Julio's hand, it is fully within Elan's character to with a "he's still my father and I don't want him to die," and it is fully within Julio's character to reply with "Ok, it's your call kid. Let's blow this joint and leave the old man gnashing his teeth in the sandy dust."

Though it is possible that V might pull another "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." in that situation. (And perhaps Durkula might be similarly inclined now, too) But I think Laurin would counter him if he tried. (Unless she had already gotten taken out of the picture.)

[Bravo]

Another (remote) possibility is that Julio will convince Tarquin that he isn´t the main villain in the story. Once he notices that, he gives up about killing Roy and heads back home, to solve this.... issue.

Nah... shoehorning Tarquin into the main villain role would make the story too soap opera-y. Having evil twins and long-lost fathers is cool for a sidestory that has fun with the idea that plots can be predicted, but as a main narrative it'd... no.

Besides, by the time the Order have dealt with the Snarl business they'll have tangled with Gods and the fundamental building blocks of the universe and stuff. You can't really make another conflict more climactic than that, and any attempt to do so would require more soap opera-y stuff. AT BEST I'd say Tarquin might end up being the Sharkey to Elan's Frodo in some kind of epilogue that shows how everyone has grown during their quest to stop Xykon. But the way Tarquin is forcing the issue here, it's looking like either Roy dies or Tarquin does, and we've already done the "quest to resurrect Roy" plot once.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

What about a simultaneous kill? Julio kills Tarquin but gets poisoned by Tarquin and dies tragically, wrapping up Elan's loose end.

[b_jonas]

I for one think Tarquin or his team will kill Julio and get the "dramatically significant death scene to swear vengeance over" for Elan. Julio (and possibly his crew) will likely still weaken Tarquin or his teammates before his death, but Julio will definitely not finish Tarquin off.

(The worse possibility is of course that Tarquin will kill Belkar as well, in which case he'll get an even more dramatically significant death scene, but I really hope no.)

[Gift Jeraff]

I think the Mechane is more likely to get the kill than Tarquin.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Tarquin kills Julio while the Order flees on the magic carpet to the airship. Tarquin says something along the lines of "It wasn't what I wanted but meh, for dramatic purposes it'll do."

[Drakilian]

Well with all the people convinced of the great dashing swordsman's death, I figure I'll put in a bit of hope.

Think about it, Tarquin is a total believer in TV tropes and such, to the point where he's based his whole evil plan around it. Everyone knows that the hero's mentor can kill less important villains, but always dies to the main villain in front of the Hero.

Yet Tarquin ISN'T the main villain, he's a side villain who is deluding himself regarding his importance to the plot. Meanwhile Elan quite clearly thinks of himself as a supporting protagonist at most, if not an outright plucky comedy relief character.

Can a heroes mentor kill a main villain? Probably not, but a side villain with no personal connection to the main hero, an overbearing ego and delusions of grandeur? That's perfect fodder for showing how awesome the retired badass is, and it will make his defeat by the REAL main villain all the more scary.

I can think of no better way for Tarquin to die.

What do you think?

A hero's mentor could indeed kill a side villain, but you forget: This isn't the hero's mentor, this is Elan's mentor.

Roy is the main character of this story, and as such, Elan and his mentor are side-characters and side-mentors, so Julio's normal invulnerability granted by plot has been removed.

And if we look at it as Elan being the main protagonist for this particular story arc, since it's centered around him, then we will also be forced to admit that Tarquin is the current main villain in the life of Elan (Because Xykon is the main villain in the life of Roy), meaning that Tarquin would still get main-villain status protection against Julio.

[Mauve Shirt]

Personally I'm hoping that this works to get Our Heroes out of here, and Tarquin dies years from now, old and forgotten, killed by Sabine while he sleeps. It's the opposite of what he would want.

[Knight.Anon]

Tarquin is delusional. He thinks he is Order of the Sticks villain but that jobs already taken. Tarquin is Bobba Fett - not Vader. Tarquin is Sarlacc-Chow, if he doesn't open his eyes.

Also: Tarquin has a Jabba, has lots of dangerous toys, a cool helmet, and lives in the desert.

Tarky should be wary of guys in brown robes carrying swords, Just Sayin'

[Drakilian]

Tarquin is delusional. He thinks he is the Order of the Stick's villain but that job is already taken. Tarquin is Bobba Fett - not Vader. Tarquin is Sarlacc-Chow, if he doesn't open his eyes.

Also: Tarquin has a Jabba, has lots of dangerous toys, a cool helmet, and lives in the desert.

Tarky should be wary of guys in brown robes carrying swords, Just Sayin'

In Tarquin's defense, he also has the powers of being bad-ass and super-powerful on his side, so I could see him attempting this even without being the main villain.

[Scow2]

I think it is quite likely. I'd bet Tarquin won't be killed by anyone from the Order - in all 930 strips, they weren't able to permanently off any important antagonist (Roy did kill Xykon, but he got better). And I don't expect them to off any villiain either (except Xykon, again).

Kubota and Miko and the ABD all strongly disagree.

[Everyl]

What about a simultaneous kill? Julio kills Tarquin but gets poisoned by Tarquin and dies tragically, wrapping up Elan's loose end.

:elan: Neutralize Poison! I knew that would be plot-important again!

That would be a pretty hilarious way to see Tarquin defeated, and denied even the accomplishment of killing Elan's mentor.

[Drakilian]

Kubota and Miko and the ABD all strongly disagree.

Miko was killed by a massive explosion, and i'm not sure what the ABD is, but i'm guessing they're the bandit leaders, who miko also killed.

But the bandits and Kubota were both unimportant.

[ryguy90]

All I know is that Tarquin is one of the greatest villains of all time. He is incredibly powerful, but not so much that he is pulling off things that should be impossible (like Amon and his underground military complex). He is charismatic, brilliant, and a perfect balance between statesmen and general. While Julio is pretty much his equal in all things, they even have an equally massive egos. So this is going to be a great fight and that's all that matters too me.

[Ghost Nappa]

Miko was killed by a massive explosion, and i'm not sure what the ABD is, but i'm guessing they're the bandit leaders, who miko also killed.

But the bandits and Kubota were both unimportant.

1) Miko was NOT killed by the explosion. Miko was killed by virtue of being bisected of castle debris (which was, incidentally caused by the explosion.)

2) ABD stand for Adult Black Dragon.

3) Kubota was important as a B/C-List Villain. He was evidence that without Roy's Leadership Durkon, Vaarsuvius, and Elan could not work together to accomplish anything of value. Vaarsuvius killing him was to highlight his decreasing functionality as a contributing party member: he was totally apathetic to the plot.

[Lord]

I will certainly admit that in ordinary circumstances having a character who Tarquin has never been in the same scene with until now, and comes completely out of no where to kill him would be completely anticlimactic, but you have to keep in mind that a Karmic Death is not defined solely by blood. A Karmic Death must fit the nature of ones crimes, and usually involves an element of personal vendetta within it.

The thing is that Tarquin is trying to make it an invoked trope. His evil plan at the moment is to murder Elan's friends in order to set up an epic father son rivalry to the death. His plan is based around making his eventual defeat extremely epic and emotionally charged. So if he get's a bridge dropped on him it will be laser guided karma simply because it's not laser guided Karma.

That said, being soundly beaten by Julio and forced to retreat, only to be killed in his sleep by Sabine would work as well.

[Drakilian]

1) Miko was NOT killed by the explosion. Miko was killed by virtue of being bisected of castle debris (which was, incidentally caused by the explosion.)

2) ABD stand for Adult Black Dragon.

3) Kubota was important as a B/C-List Villain. He was evidence that without Roy's Leadership Durkon, Vaarsuvius, and Elan could not work together to accomplish anything of value. Vaarsuvius killing him was to highlight his decreasing functionality as a contributing party member: he was totally apathetic to the plot.

1) Apples and Oranges.

2) Ah, all of these acronyms. Still, it could be argued that the order didn't exactly kill the Adult Black Dragon, as it was Darth V who did it, alone, while under the influence of evil cheerleaders.

3) Kubota was not the cause of the dysfunctional behaviour. The exact same events would have happened regardless of his presence or not, he really just seemed to be there in order to make the scenes a bit more interesting (Which I personally thought he failed miserably at, such a dull character) but not much else. Without Kubota, V would have still eventually snapped and left the boat, Durkon would have continued to do nothing and wait, and Elan would have continued to do whatever Elan does in his spare time (Read: Create a Puppet God Pantheon XD)

[Deliverance]

2) Ah, all of these acronyms. Still, it could be argued that the order didn't exactly kill the Adult Black Dragon, as it was Darth V who did it, alone, while under the influence of evil cheerleaders.
That would be a silly argument given that a major point that was repeatedly rubbed in during V's character development arc is that V made every choice of his own free will and was thus unable to blame any of his actions on the IFCC or their evil cheerleaders - the actions followed directly from V's personality and V having access to arcane power beyond his wildest imaginings, unaffected by any sinister influence.

[Drakilian]

That would be a silly argument given that a major point that was repeatedly rubbed in during V's character development arc is that V made every choice of his own free will and was thus unable to blame any of his actions on the IFCC or their evil cheerleaders - the actions followed directly from V's personality and V having access to arcane power beyond his wildest imaginings, unaffected by any sinister influence.

Yes - but evil cheerleaders are still voices in your head telling you to do horrible things to others. That V thought these ideas to be good ideas doesn't mean that he/she's actions weren't somewhat influenced by their presence.

Besides, Adult Black Dragon was, in the grand scheme of things, a rather unimportant villain. The only real use of the Adult Black Dragon was to introduce the IFCC (A far more important Enemy) and to show us how power-hungry V was (And how he/she would let it get into his/her head). That's not really "Important villain" material as it is "Death-bound plot device".

[Mike Havran]

Kubota and Miko and the ABD all strongly disagree.Miko wasn't killed by the Order.

ABD was nothing more than a personal nemesis to Vaarsuvius, who dealt with her completely away from the Order's business. The same goes for Crystal or poor little YokYok.

Kubota also didn't give a flying drat about anybody in the Order except Elan. His main opponent was Hinjo and he saw Elan only as an unfriendly tool that corrupts his loyal Therkla.

[A Tad Insane]

The only death that would be fitting for Tarquin in my mind is eating a off handed meteor swarm from Xykon because it would be fun, who will promptly forget him.

[Warren Dew]

Soon Vs. Xykon & Redcloak Vs. Miko
Those didn't resolve the conflict, since the bad guys won so the order of the stick still needed to deal with them. The cognate here would be if Tarquin killed Julio, which would likewise not resolve the conflict with Tarquin, and thus not constitute "[r]esolving the arc through a fight between two NPCs".

[Synesthesy]

I think that the only real important villain get killed by an NPC is.....

Nale. Nale was important and he died in a fast, anticlimatic way.

Miko died in a great way, fullfilling what she thought it was God's will. ABD was killed by Vaarsuvius in one of the most epic arc (Darth Vaarsuvius is really badass :smallbiggrin:);

Kubota was also killed like Nale, but in a different way... And, also, Kubota was unimportant. He was a little NPC compared to Tarquin.


However, Tarquin is really badass. The only more badass in the world is his opponent, now. That will be the most epic fight ever.

[Bulldog Psion]

Actually, to really blast apart traditional storytelling tropes, I suggest the following plot: :smallwink:

1. Julio dies within a couple of rounds of engaging Tarquin.
2. Tarquin kills all of them Order in a rage, including Elan, and Laurin disintegrates them.
3. Laurin learned of the quest through Elan's and Nale's minds, and the Evil Father Patrol sets off to Kraagor's Gate to defeat Xykon.
4. Xykon slaughters the Evil Father Patrol in 3 rounds flat.
5. Redcloak turns on Xykon, the MitD helps him, and Xykon is destroyed.
6. Redcloak gets the power of the rifts, and has an epiphany which leads him to use this immense power to create real equality for all the species of the OotS world. Nobody ever goes through the rifts, so the secret of the Snarl and the planet within a planet are never revealed.
7. The world becomes a paradise, except for an old, louse-ridden man sifting the desert sands for the ashes of his daughter. Redcloak, his work completed, sets aside the cloak and dies quietly of old age with a smile on his face.
8. The scene switches to a century later, with a goblin bard singing the tale of how Redcloak's heroism triumphed over the villainy of Xykon and the narrow-minded anti-goblinism of the Order of the Stick. His audience includes lizardfolk, halflings, kobolds, humans (including Azurites), goblins, hobgoblins, etc. etc., all getting along fine and eating cotton candy.
9. The end.

[dtilque]

I for one think Tarquin or his team will kill Julio and get the "dramatically significant death scene to swear vengeance over" for Elan. Julio (and possibly his crew) will likely still weaken Tarquin or his teammates before his death, but Julio will definitely not finish Tarquin off.

From Tarquin's prespective, this would not be enough. He also wants Elan to be the leader of his party and that won't happen with Roy still alive. Of course, even with Roy dead, it wouldn't happen, but Tarquin doesn't know that. At any rate, Tarquin would still kill off Roy after Julio.

[Zrak]

I maintain that Tarquin will probably survive at least for a while, since he has to live long enough for Laurin to call in her favor.

[SlashDash]

Tarquin is delusional. He thinks he is Order of the Sticks villain but that jobs already taken.
Way to miss his entire speech in the last strips ;)

Tarquin thinks he is Elan's rival which is partly why he removed Nale when he realized he couldn't do the part anymore.

He does not see himself as the Order's villain which is why he has no reason to disband them (as he tells Elan to go and make another party).

In fact, Tarquin truly recognizes Xykon as the main villain, which is why he offered Elan to help him go off and battle Xykon with his resources.


I maintain that Tarquin will probably survive at least for a while, since he has to live long enough for Laurin to call in her favor.
There's Laurin's favor, the fact that Tarquin told his army to hold the rift because they will be back shortly and most importantly thing here is that we are constantly being reminded that perhaps something is wrong with the Snarl's story and they should investigate the rift.

Even Redcloak said that maybe they should stay for just a bit and get more information, which Xykon dismissed and usually those things mean the end of the villains.

I would put my wager on both Tarquin and Julio surviving the battle

[Scow2]

Miko was killed by a massive explosion, and i'm not sure what the ABD is, but i'm guessing they're the bandit leaders, who miko also killed.

But the bandits and Kubota were both unimportant.Tarquin has the exact same narrative (in)significance of the Ancient Black Dragon, Kubota, Samantha, That One Chimera, and Bozzock.

Even Nale is narratively more significant than him.

[skim172]

I think maybe we might be taking the "trope self-awareness" things a bit too far. For me, the idea has always been that Tarquin patterns his agenda and future as if life is completely and entirely run by fantasy cliches, even if that is not necessarily the case. :smallwink:

Which is why Tarquin gets so pathologically frustrated when things don't go according to plan. "It didn't go right, so we are DOING IT AGAIN." Because life keeps NOT GOING TO PLAN. STOP IT. STOP DEFYING THE CLICHE, DAMMIT.

So I could see Tarquin getting killed by Julio. Because that's not the cliche. The mentor doesn't kill the villain. It would be the ultimate rejection of everything Tarquin believes and plans if his life was suddenly cut short by the completely wrong thing - something not a cliche.

Of course, that'd be more the case if he died of something like a heart attack. Or maybe influenza. Or a bird dropping a turtle on his head. :smallconfused:

[johnbragg]

I think it would be lovely. And there are things that could be done to the body that would render Resurrection improbable, that Durkula at least would have no problem doing, dispelling Haley's worry over what was likely to happen if they just straight up killed Tarquin.

Vampire Thrall Laurin will just Disintegrate the body.

[Drakilian]

Tarquin has the exact same narrative (in)significance of the Ancient Black Dragon, Kubota, Samantha, That One Chimera, and Bozzock.

Even Nale is narratively more significant than him.

Are you kidding me? I hope you're kidding me. Tarquin has a massively more significant impact on the storyline, the Order, and the narrative on a whole than any of those characters. Those were mere enemies and characters that briefly appeared and then were promptly either killed or very quickly forgotten. Tarquin has at least the narrative impact of Miko, and i'd wager that he could go a little bit higher than that, he is very much so a major antagonist in this story, though not the main one.

[Obscure Blade]

In fact, Tarquin truly recognizes Xykon as the main villain, which is why he offered Elan to help him go off and battle Xykon with his resources.That's not true. He called Xykon a "sub-boss", and didn't even spell his name right (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0917.html). And he offered Elan help in order to manipulate Elan into "tacitly accepting my authority" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html).

[Scow2]

Are you kidding me? I hope you're kidding me. Tarquin has a massively more significant impact on the storyline, the Order, and the narrative on a whole than any of those characters. Those were mere enemies and characters that briefly appeared and then were promptly either killed or very quickly forgotten. Tarquin has at least the narrative impact of Miko, and i'd wager that he could go a little bit higher than that, he is very much so a major antagonist in this story, though not the main one.Nope. Tarquin is The Villain of The Story Arc, not anyone significant in the grand scheme of things. No matter what he may tell you.

[The Pilgrim]

Tarquin has the exact same narrative (in)significance of the Ancient Black Dragon, Kubota, Samantha, That One Chimera, and Bozzock.

Even Nale is narratively more significant than him.

Actually, Malack is more narratively significant than Tarquin. He at least managed to turn one of the Order into undead, which is going to have long-term consequences.

[Scow2]

Actually, Malack is more narratively significant than Tarquin. He at least managed to turn one of the Order into undead, which is going to have long-term consequences.

And was planned from the very beginning, no less :smallcool:

[Mike Havran]

Nope. Tarquin is The Villain of The Story Arc, not anyone significant in the grand scheme of things. No matter what he may tell you.I don't see the chimera, Bozzok, Kubota etc. being The Villains of The Story Arc.

[Kish]

I don't see the chimera, Bozzok, Kubota etc. being The Villains of The Story Arc.
Not seeing Bozzok being the villain of the Thieves' Guild story arc was kind of head-scratching, but I went, "Well, I suppose I could see an argument that it's Old Blind Pete, though I certainly wouldn't agree."

Not seeing Kubota being the villain of the Floating Azure City Refugees story arc, on the other hand, I find completely incomprehensible.

[Poppy Appletree]

2) ABD stand for Adult Black Dragon.

It's actually "ancient black dragon". :smallwink:

Also, I'm pretty sure that Julio is not Epic, and is probably somewhere around 17th level, and I'd say the same for Tarquin.

[Cerussite]

Also "Julio is probably epic" is based on what?

Nothing, but it'd be fair to say he's at least 15th level given that he has 10 levels in a prestige class.

[sparkyinbozo]

I think Tarquin has plot armor here - if he were to be killed by Julio, we'd probably never hear what Lauren's favor was going to be.

[The Pilgrim]

I think Tarquin has plot armor here - if he were to be killed by Julio, we'd probably never hear what Lauren's favor was going to be.

And why do we need to know what Laurin's favor is? It's fairy irrelevant for the plot, actually.

[Mike Havran]

Not seeing Bozzok being the villain of the Thieves' Guild story arc was kind of head-scratching, but I went, "Well, I suppose I could see an argument that it's Old Blind Pete, though I certainly wouldn't agree."

Not seeing Kubota being the villain of the Floating Azure City Refugees story arc, on the other hand, I find completely incomprehensible.Ugh, if you wish to haggle about words, so be it.

Tarquin is The Villain of Story Arc Which Will Eventually Span Over Approximate Length of At Least One Printed Book; which is not the case of Bozzok, Kubota etc.

If one takes Scow2's meaning the way you did, then every single villain in the OotS is The Villain of a Story Arc. One just needs to use appropriately creative Story Arc Name.

[Kish]

Ugh, if you wish to haggle about words, so be it.

Tarquin is The Villain of Story Arc Which Will Eventually Span Over Approximate Length of At Least One Printed Book; which is not the case of Bozzok, Kubota etc.

If one takes Scow2's meaning the way you did, then every single villain in the OotS is The Villain of a Story Arc. One just needs to use appropriately creative Story Arc Name.
Really? What story arc was Tsukiko the villain of? (...And how contrived does it look if you slice out strips to come up with an answer?) What story arc was the ancient black dragon the villain of and what story arc was the IFCC the villain of, and bear in mind that if the answer to both those questions is the same you've invalidated your own premise (as you have if your answer to either of them is "none")? Malack (bearing in mind that if you carve out a little chunk of the current arc to say that was Malack's Arc, suddenly Tarquin is the villain of a lot of little disjointed arcs scattered in between arcs where Nale was the villain)?

I see very little room for "haggling" here. You won't grant that Tarquin's a third-stringer; I will require a great deal more (from Rich, not you) than I've yet seen to grant that he's anything more than a third-stringer. If you consider the entire post-Don't-Split-The-Party-to-a-little-after-now over-arc to have Tarquin as The Villain--which I probably would if I felt the desire to define one overall villain for it, but I don't--then Tarquin is certainly the villain of a longer arc than Kubota was, but if you're making "at least 250 strips" part of the definition of an arc, I take leave to doubt that Scow2 meant that quite nonstandard definition.

*looks back up the thread* Tarquin is likely to be remembered by Elan longer than Miko is, anyway.

[Mike Havran]

Really? What story arc was Tsukiko the villain of? (...And how contrived does it look if you slice out strips to come up with an answer?) What story arc was the ancient black dragon the villain of and what story arc was the IFCC the villain of, and bear in mind that if the answer to both those questions is the same you've invalidated your own premise (as you have if your answer to either of them is "none")? Malack (bearing in mind that if you carve out a little chunk of the current arc to say that was Malack's Arc, suddenly Tarquin is the villain of a lot of little disjointed arcs scattered in between arcs where Nale was the villain)?

I see very little room for "haggling" here. You won't grant that Tarquin's a third-stringer; I will require a great deal more (from Rich, not you) than I've yet seen to grant that he's anything more than a third-stringer. If you consider the entire post-Don't-Split-The-Party-to-a-little-after-now over-arc to have Tarquin as The Villain--which I probably would if I felt the desire to define one overall villain for it, but I don't--then Tarquin is certainly the villain of a longer arc than Kubota was, but if you're making "at least 250 strips" part of the definition of an arc, I take leave to doubt that Scow2 meant that quite nonstandard definition.

*looks back up the thread* Tarquin is likely to be remembered by Elan longer than Miko is, anyway.I wouldn't call Tsukiko a villain, myself. She was just a minion to Xykon, with no agenda that would fuel the conflict beween her and the protagonists other than "serve Xykon". The ABD had his her short Vendetta arc against Vaarsuvius, and the IFCC have their IFCC's Ominous Gate Plan Arc, which is not yet resolved. Malack had also his own agenda that got resolved without the PCs. BTW, if you object to "slicing out" strips, then you should apply the same towards Kubota or Bozzok or Xykon.

Edit: But I can think of a Post-Azure City Rebellion Arc with Tsukiko as a main "villain", since suppressing the Resistance was actually her job.

[Forum Explorer]

Not seeing Bozzok being the villain of the Thieves' Guild story arc was kind of head-scratching, but I went, "Well, I suppose I could see an argument that it's Old Blind Pete, though I certainly wouldn't agree."

Not seeing Kubota being the villain of the Floating Azure City Refugees story arc, on the other hand, I find completely incomprehensible.

I could see it be Crystal for that arc, since Bozzak didn't really do that much.


And perhaps Therkla for the Floating Azure city Arc.

But both of those are a stretch.

[Kish]

I wouldn't call Tsukiko a villain, myself. She was just a minion to Xykon, with no agenda that would fuel the conflict beween her and the protagonists other than "serve Xykon". The ABD had his short Vendetta arc against Vaarsuvius, and the IFCC have their IFCC's Ominous Gate Plan Arc, which is not yet resolved. Malack had also his own agenda that got resolved without the PCs. BTW, if you object to "slicing out" strips, then you should apply the same towards Kubota or Bozzok or Xykon.
If you do not know the sex of the ancient black dragon, you might want to reread certain parts of the comic.

And looking at your last line, it appears that I'm right back where I was two posts ago: Baffled that you define "arc" in a way that apparently lets out the arc Kubota was the villain of and the arc Bozzok was the villain of and I don't even know what you mean about Xykon. (I don't know what that way is--but I think it would probably be a suboptimal use of your time to try to explain it to me; I'm going out on a limb and saying I wouldn't agree.)

[Mike Havran]

Let's just say that I consider Tarquin being narratively much more important than Kubota or Bozzok because there'll be at least one printed OotS book having Tarquin as the main antagonist. Which is something those two guys (and many more) can't claim.

[Jekub]

About Tarquin and kubota.

Kubota apears in 412 and is the villain of the arc until his death at 595 (183 strips)

Tarquin appears in 722. For now, 208 strips. (I doubt he will last many more)

So at least in raw screen time, tarquin is not much more important that kubota.

Edit: I think julio will kill Tarquin. Because dying to a semi-random Deux ex machina is exactly what Tarquin deserves.

[Mike Havran]

About Tarquin and kubota.

Kubota apears in 412 and is the villain of the arc until his death at 595 (183 strips)

Tarquin appears in 722. For now, 208 strips. (I doubt he will last many more)

So at least in raw screen time, tarquin is not much more important that kubota.

Edit: I think julio will kill Tarquin. Because dying to a semi-random Deux ex machina is exactly what Tarquin deserves.
Okay, lets start with the fact that Tarquin first appears in strip #50. So, 880 strips.

And as far as the "raw screen time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276152)" goes, Kubota appears in 13 online strips (and probably won't appear anymore) while Tarquin stars in 86 and will appear at least one more time, but probably more than that. That's like, 6 times more. You can dissect it to panels or speech balloons, but I doubt Kubota will fare much better.

[Drakilian]

Nope. Tarquin is The Villain of The Story Arc, not anyone significant in the grand scheme of things. No matter what he may tell you.

He is indeed the villain of the story arc, as well as significant in the grand scheme of things. You can be both you know.

He has had a major impact on the story, far larger than any previous antagonists (Other than Redcloak and Xykon), has affected all of the characters greatly, and has occupied a massive amount of the story so far. To claim otherwise is just ignorant, i'm not going off of what he's telling us, i'm going off of everything we've seen in the comic thus far

[Koo Rehtorb]

Tarquin is at least as narratively important as Miko, probably more.

Edit - he might not be Darth Vader, but he's definitely Tarkin or Jabba the Hutt.

[Poppy Appletree]

The ABD had his short Vendetta arc against Vaarsuvius

:smallconfused:

I really don't understand how you can mix up the gender of a character whose portrayal was quite literally defined by being a mother. If you've managed to miss something that significant, well...

[dps]

At this point, nothing would surprise me much, even Julio joining Team Tarquin.

[martianmister]

2) ABD stand for Adult Black Dragon.
It's actually "ancient black dragon". :smallwink:

It's also means "Adolescent Black Dragon". Which makes it really difficult...

[Ramien]

I think Tarquin has plot armor here - if he were to be killed by Julio, we'd probably never hear what Lauren's favor was going to be.

Her favor could just be 'Squiddleydoodlefluffer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0569.html).' Just something to be mentioned once Tarquin is defeated, and she says 'I was just doing this for <enter favor here>" before leaving.

Not a guarantee, of course, but it could limit Tarquin's plot armor in that regard.

[Bulldog Psion]

:smallconfused:

I really don't understand how you can mix up the gender of a character whose portrayal was quite literally defined by being a mother. If you've managed to miss something that significant, well...

Or, English might not be the first language in all cases, especially with someone whose location is listed as "Central Europe." Just saying. :smallwink:

[Mike Havran]

:smallconfused:

I really don't understand how you can mix up the gender of a character whose portrayal was quite literally defined by being a mother. If you've managed to miss something that significant, well...Yup, I slipped there. I didn't think it was a big deal because my post was about something entirely different, but it seems it's an eyesore for people so I apologize I made this mistake of using different gender and I'll correct it.

[Zmeoaice]

It's also means "Adolescent Black Dragon". Which makes it really difficult...

Most people say YABD for ABD's son.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Just YBD I think.