How Brutal is Stygia (Layer 5 Hell)?

[Tevesh]

I'm looking at Frostburn and while I think it would make sense to add everything, I also don't want the PCs to be bogged down with useless details but I also don't want the trek across a layer of Hell to be a cake walk.

So, assuming they have Level 4 Cold Protection, because if you know you're going to Frost Hell, you're going to have an Endure Elements and Cold Weather Clothing.

So...

From descriptions on Fiendish Codex II, Stygia sounds like it is continually covered in a blizzard. With that in mind, how much packed snow would that be? Are we talking everybody is making DC 5 Str/Balance to move 5' and are considered FF?

Is there light for Light Blindness, or would you say that there is only darkness? Perhaps a terrible grey that is blotted out by a continual Blizzard? This would mean some intense winds (PCs would need to make Fort to see if they're Checked by the Wind), they would be difficult terrain and the Whiteout would mean they're Blind in addition to Flat Footed.

How much would you pack on the Dire Weather? We have Acid Sleet, Razor Sleet, all of the Sleet! Howl of the Northwind can also do damage and make it easy to ambush PCs.

There's also supernatural hazards like Acid Slush or Lightning Pillars (which make sense in Stygia as being described as a sky full of lightning).

Curiously enough, Ice Devils lack the amount of protection to deal with Unearthly Cold. This makes me believe perhaps Stygia is merely Extremely Cold, with perhaps parts of it being Unearthly Cold (such as around Levistus' Iceburg).

I want the PCs to struggle with the weather, I want it to be a factor in combat but I don't want going from point A to point B being just roll dice to see how fast you guys move, which determines how much razorsnowfrostmurderdeath gets you.

Also, any suggestions on narrative for treks? I want some amount of adventure because this is going to be way out of the PC and Player's comfort zones (they're in Hell, after all). Before, it was pretty much, spend $ on horse and "you get there in 5 days unless I want to waste your time with a random encounter".

[pwykersotz]

I'm looking at Frostburn and while I think it would make sense to add everything, I also don't want the PCs to be bogged down with useless details but I also don't want the trek across a layer of Hell to be a cake walk.

So, assuming they have Level 4 Cold Protection, because if you know you're going to Frost Hell, you're going to have an Endure Elements and Cold Weather Clothing.

So...

From descriptions on Fiendish Codex II, Stygia sounds like it is continually covered in a blizzard. With that in mind, how much packed snow would that be? Are we talking everybody is making DC 5 Str/Balance to move 5' and are considered FF?

I would probably have them roll once per hour or so to see how they do. Half or quarter speed isn't unreasonable, or if they are traveling with the wind, a good chance of being blown into an obstacle. Since this is a planar layer and conventional weather physics don't necessarily apply, I'd probably have a half inch of snow everywhere with large random sinkholes that function like quicksand.


Is there light for Light Blindness, or would you say that there is only darkness? Perhaps a terrible grey that is blotted out by a continual Blizzard? This would mean some intense winds (PCs would need to make Fort to see if they're Checked by the Wind), they would be difficult terrain and the Whiteout would mean they're Blind in addition to Flat Footed.

A terrible grey lit only by strikes of lightning (yay Washington state!) is a pretty cool image. I would avoid Whiteouts though, unless you want to force them to either come up with a magical way of invalidating the weather or you want them to go very, very slowly. Let them see vaguely at least 30 feet, maybe.


How much would you pack on the Dire Weather? We have Acid Sleet, Razor Sleet, all of the Sleet! Howl of the Northwind can also do damage and make it easy to ambush PCs.

I'd go easy on the dire weather, and only expose them to a unique condition every couple days. When it strikes though, make it strike hard. Hit them when they are most exposed to drive home just how inhospitable this place is.


There's also supernatural hazards like Acid Slush or Lightning Pillars (which make sense in Stygia as being described as a sky full of lightning).

Hazards should probably be everywhere and easy to fall into, but ultimately the party should probably learn to deal with them after two or three. Again, unless you want to slow game to a crawl.


Curiously enough, Ice Devils lack the amount of protection to deal with Unearthly Cold. This makes me believe perhaps Stygia is merely Extremely Cold, with perhaps parts of it being Unearthly Cold (such as around Levistus' Iceburg).

Sounds good.


I want the PCs to struggle with the weather, I want it to be a factor in combat but I don't want going from point A to point B being just roll dice to see how fast you guys move, which determines how much razorsnowfrostmurderdeath gets you.

Remember that these places have a lot of richness to them. It isn't a flat barren wasteland unless that's what you want. There might be whole lakes of water that should be frozen but somehow isn't, atop which large ice floes with terrible secrets buried in them float. Empty castles of fiendish construction might rot past a forest of terribly beautiful ice trees that are clear as crystal to allow you to see that they all contain veins running red with blood. Strange lights may play off the ice with no discernable source, and those who investigate too closely might find themselves lost amongst a maze of ice pillars that seem to stretch up and on forever. The Nine Hells are a place of horrors, after all.


Also, any suggestions on narrative for treks? I want some amount of adventure because this is going to be way out of the PC and Player's comfort zones (they're in Hell, after all). Before, it was pretty much, spend $ on horse and "you get there in 5 days unless I want to waste your time with a random encounter".

As before, just remember that there can be numerous dangerous curiosities, and not all of them have to end in battle. There might be a seemingly endless Field of Icy Razors (as the spell). Perhaps an enormous swarm of Fiendish Ice Bats flies overhead, only a peril to those in the air. Maybe, in the middle of the snow and ice, they discover an oasis and a lovely cottage, and wouldn't it be wonderful to get out of the cold for just one night?

[Vanitas]

Little adventurer, you're going to Stygia!
You said bad words, threw rocks at birds
And now this is your hotel!
You ain't going back, this ain't Celestia,
It's Stygia!

Little adventurer it's time for you to pay!
You hurt the birds you don't go to church
You stare at boobs all day!
You're not in bed, instead you're going to Stygia!

Stygia isn't good! Stygia isn't good!
Stygia!

[Doorhandle]

Little adventurer, you're going to Stygia!
You said bad words, threw rocks at birds
And now this is your hotel!
You ain't going back, this ain't Celestia,
It's Stygia!

Little adventurer it's time for you to pay!
You hurt the birds you don't go to church
You stare at boobs all day!
You're not in bed, instead you're going to Stygia!

Stygia isn't good! Stygia isn't good!
Stygia!

:smallconfused:

Your inscrutable reference wills me with equal parts amusement and annoyance.

Some idea for icy hellscapes:
*The mountain-sized skeleton of a long-dead god, rimed in ice.
* Whenever you look at a patch of ice, you can see long dammed souls forever drowning underneath it.
*A massive, three-headed devil half-embedded in ice, forever chewing on tyrants.
* Huge icicles, each with an unfortunate demon impaled upon them.
* A field of burning ice.

[Kane0]

Remember that these places have a lot of richness to them. It isn't a flat barren wasteland unless that's what you want. There might be whole lakes of water that should be frozen but somehow isn't, atop which large ice floes with terrible secrets buried in them float. Empty castles of fiendish construction might rot past a forest of terribly beautiful ice trees that are clear as crystal to allow you to see that they all contain veins running red with blood. Strange lights may play off the ice with no discernable source, and those who investigate too closely might find themselves lost amongst a maze of ice pillars that seem to stretch up and on forever. The Nine Hells are a place of horrors, after all.


Could you also describe some other layers of hell? Pretty please?

[Icewraith]

Fiendish codex 2 for stuff on the nine hells.

Things to consider that aren't devils:

Fiendish/half fiend...
Frost Giants
Frost Wyrms
White Dragons
Remorhazes

Undead (especially incorporeal undead)

Also, dealing with unearthly cold areas might be enough of an issue to roll out the infernal construct-type opponents.

Also remember element immunity or even absorbtion are things from Spell Compendium. There's also Avoid Planar Effects or somesuch, possibly from the same source. Homebrewing a cold version of Searing Spell will annoy your players if they resort to these methods (well not the absorb one), but also stops them from negating the entire theme of the adventure.

You could also take aquatic monsters like the Kraken, give them the Cold and Fiendish templates, and give them earth glide for ice and snow. Levistus is trying to breed ones that can penetrate his special iceberg and free him, but so far no luck.

[Krobar]

Before they get to Stygia, which luckily for them isn't Cania, you should make them go get "Adventurer's Licenses" from the bureaucratic hell that is the city of Dis. Theyre devils so they don't lose stuff, but the red tape can be boggling, with signatures, requests, appeals, approvals, disapprovals, municipal ordinances, fees, fines, deadlines that if missed result in having to jump through even MORE hoops... There are so many different types of hell, so make every bit of it, every inch, suck.

[Frosty]

*A massive, three-headed devil half-embedded in ice, forever chewing on tyrants.
This should be reserved for the 9th layer, Nessus. :smallwink:

[tyckspoon]

Homebrewing a cold version of Searing Spell will annoy your players if they resort to these methods (well not the absorb one), but also stops them from negating the entire theme of the adventure.


It's called Piercing Cold. The main difference is it doesn't work on things that have the (Cold) subtype, where Searing Spell can be used to burn Fire Elementals to death.

[Icewraith]

What's it out of? The only one I can remember at the moment is the bad Lord of the Uttercold (half negative energy IIRC), since after a certain point players have far more negative energy protection than they do cold protection.

[kiergon]

There should be open waters, Scyllans come from Stygia, under the sea is the realm of Sekolah, the shark god of the Sahuagins. Giant fiendish octopuses, sharks, squids, whales, sahuagins, and scyllans dwell under the Ice.

There is a metropolis, maybe the biggest city of the Aboleths under the ice near where the River Styx flows through the layer. There is a swamp around the river styx, and its a half frozen hell, with giant ice resistant bugs that not only drain the life out of anyone stupid enough to approach, but they can also drain memories, as they have adapted to live near the Styx. The swamp waters also drain memories, tho to a lesser degree than the Styx.

Set lives on Ankhwugat, and his realm is a dry, hot and dark desert. On his realm there should be massive fiendish scorpions, proxies and petitioners of Set. Mummy lords building new pyramids in honor of their dark lord should be plenty.Neogi, fiendish were crocodiles, mummies, jackalweres, some yuan tis, among others should be common sight on this realm. Set is about to launch a war against Levistus, and although a layer lord should be able to defeat a god, Levistus is locked inside his glaciar prison, and Set has Ra on his side.

Most of the Amnizu reside on fortresses along the banks of the River styx, their duty is to guard it against the intrusions of any invader. In theory the Amnizus have the authority to lord over most Devils while on their duty, except for pit fiends. So if the players ran afoul of an Amnizu, which should be easy, they are among the most hateful and pity of the fiends, the players could expect some Cornugons on their tails.

Gelugons are not as common in this layer as you would think, Levistus hates them and doesn't trust them. They are after all the agents of Mephisto.

Pit Fiends should be extremely rare on this layer, Levistus is a traitor and if they serve him, they risk to incur the wrath of the Dark Eight or Even Big A himself.

[Karnith]

What's it out of?
The Piercing Cold metamagic feat can be found in It's Cold Outside Frostburn.

[Tevesh]

These are some really cool ideas and made me wish I had more time to spend on Stygia but Ain't Nobody Got Time for That.

I can use the Weather and/or Supernatural hazards for a funnel into the encounters I want. The other suggested monsters would make for great background to see that Stygia isn't a barrel of laughs.

Thank you for your contributions!

[Dimers]

There might be whole lakes of water that should be frozen but somehow isn't, atop which large ice floes with terrible secrets buried in them float. Empty castles of fiendish construction might rot past a forest of terribly beautiful ice trees that are clear as crystal to allow you to see that they all contain veins running red with blood. Strange lights may play off the ice with no discernable source, and those who investigate too closely might find themselves lost amongst a maze of ice pillars that seem to stretch up and on forever.

:smalleek:

Yes, I believe you have won GitP for the day.

[Vanitas]

:smallconfused:

Your inscrutable reference wills me with equal parts amusement and annoyance.


Hell Isn't Good, by DVDA.