Going Warblade after Barbarian?

[Dreadgrim]

Hello GiP forumers,
my players leveled up and I told the Barbarian that the classes in the Book of Nine Swords are cool and powerful. I told him that Crusader and Swordsage don't really blend with his fluff, but he liked Warblade the best anyway.I just wonder if entering Warblade after three levels of Barbarian is a good idea. He will lag on Maneuvers, for sure.

Also, I am not sure about how Maneuvers interact with Rage and Power Attack, a feat the the character currently possesses. I think he can't initiate while raging, as well he can't PA on attacks made via Maneuvers. Am I right?

[Big Fau]

He should go Barbarian 4 or Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 and finish the rest of his character with Warblade. The reason being is that multiclassing into Warblade is best done on an odd-numbered level (3rd, 5th, 7th), as this means you have an even number to determine your Initiator Level with (in your player's case entering Warblade at 5th level instead of 4th would give you an IL of 3rd, opening up 2nd level maneuvers).

As for your concerns, the only maneuvers that explicitly do not work while raging are ones involving Concentration, Sense Motive, Intimidate, and Hide. There's only a handful of maneuvers that use Skill checks at all, most of which require Jump checks or Concentration checks (there's one Sense Motive check, but that's it IIRC).

Power Attack works for any maneuver that requires a melee attack, so no foul there.

[GreenETC]

He will lag on Maneuvers, for sure.
Actually he won't. If he goes one more level of Barbarian, he can start his Warblade career with level 2 maneuvers, a bunch of which are very good, and then just get more from there. Plus he'll get another Rage per day.

Also, I am not sure about how Maneuvers interact with Rage and Power Attack, a feat the the character currently possesses. I think he can't initiate while raging, as well he can't PA on attacks made via Maneuvers. Am I right?
Wrong on both counts actually (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060913a), though many people make the mistake. Raging only precludes the usage of Concentration and certain skills, which means he can do everything but recover maneuvers while Raging. On top of this, many maneuvers are just combat actions, much like a regular attack, and the ones that say "you make a melee attack" therefore may be combined with feats such as Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and others.

[Dreadgrim]

Woah! I'm happy I was (mostly) wrong about rage and PA.

Another question.. Other people at the table play Ranger and Warforged Fighter/soon to be Juggernaut.. will they feel weak compared to Bo9S classes?

Thank you people.

[GreenETC]

Another question.. Other people at the table play Ranger and Warforged Fighter/soon to be Juggernaut.. will they feel weak compared to Bo9S classes?
The Juggernaught (if he's doing Dungeoncrasher like I'm expecting with that build) should not have too much of a problem with it, though he will be a bit sad when his combat trick isn't going to be viable. The Ranger might, but it depends a lot on what the Ranger is doing. If he's a bow ranger, he probably won't have that much of an issue with the stronger melee power, though he'll have his own problems unless he's going for a Swift Hunter build. If he's melee, he might feel a bit overshadowed, though he has better skills and ACFs to fall back on. If he's a Wildshape Ranger, then he'll have his own niche that nobody can occupy, which will allow him to feel great outside of combats.

[Dreadgrim]

Nah, nothing really fancy, I just allowed him to mix stuff from Urban Ranger and plain Ranger as he pleases. He's focusing on TWF. He chose Dark Hunter from CWar as he to be Prestige Class, and I don't really know why. Actually, I know nothing about the class: nobody seems to bother.

I AM a little worried. Any idea?

[Kennisiou]

Suggest he go swift hunter two weapon fighting by taking scout levels and that he find ways to move as a swift action or charge and make full attacks. This gives him easily controllable bonus damage on the multiple attacks his two weapon fighting will give which scales nicely, as well as some bonus AC on his attacks. There's a feat that lets him swift action move once a day (more if he has a turn undead pool) and there's some magic items that allow it a limited number of times a day as well, but more likely suggest a one level dip in spirit lion totem barbarian to gain pounce (lets him charge then make a full attack, meaning he gets all of his TWF attacks). A one level dip in cleric to take the travel domain and then replace it with the travel devotion feat would also help, since it gives him (3+cha modifier) /2 +1 minutes of moving as a swift action per day, which is really useful for him. If he doesn't like that, consider finding an excuse to rule 0 him some pounce. For real, two weapon fighters need some way to move and still full attack, and if he doesn't have that he's going to suffer in combats unless they're all massively cramped.

While most people look at swift hunter builds as a purely bow ranger thing, it's seriously also one of the best ways to give TWF rangers the damage they want, it just involves more work for them since they can't just 20-foot move and then greater manyshot and have to make pouncing/swift moving tricks instead.

Honestly, your party sounds really damage heavy and really control light as it is, so the ranger's entangle spell probably gives him a place in it even if he's lagging behind in damage, so it's maybe not too big of a concern.

[Dreadgrim]

Well, the party also has a Druid and a Wizard. But, I think they will have no problems.. :P ĩ am more concerned about fighters.

I don't think the player would like to dip too much stuff or make combos, he seems to be content to roleplay. Still, I want to make sure nobody feels too bad when the feats and the class levels are allocated and things are done.

I was just thinking to homerule a couple things. Like, after he gets the second attack with secondary hand (I think it's the second feat on the TWF tree, can't recall the name atm), I was considering to still allow him one attack after he moves. Basically, allowing him to take a move action, then make a single primary hand attack + a single secondary hand attack. Would it be imbalancing or illogical? Or would just not be enough?

[Kennisiou]

Probably not enough. My suggestion is you get him a magic item that lets him make move actions as a swift action or a magic item that gives him pounce. Think, like, an intelligent sword with the spirit of an ancient awakened lion in it (animal companion of some old powerful druid ranger that he eventually awakened and set free), and as long as he's wielding the sword he has pounce (and also give it some other relevant bonuses that maybe get unlocked as he levels and gains the sword's respect, like maybe he gains the ability to make rend attacks if he hits with both weapons or gains like a natural bite attack with the sword's enhancements or maybe gains additional favored enemies). There's not a lot of stuff like that in rules as written, but if he doesn't really want to work within the established areas this gives you a nice way to boost his power level without him having to change his character concept.