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View Full Version : Quick Samurai Fix: Tier 4? [D&D 3.5]



Ziegander
2013-11-14, 04:10 PM
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VwkmxYcRgoU/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/aMRfcEtYC4s/s600-c-k-no/photo.jpg

Alignment: Any Lawful
HD: d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Ancestral Weapons, No Fear

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Kiai Smite 1/day

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Staredown

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Kiai Smite 2/day

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Iaijutsu Master

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Bonus Feat

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Kiai Smite 3/day

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Improved Staredown

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Bonus Feat

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Kiai Smite 4/day

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Piercing Gaze

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Bonus Feat

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Kiai Smite 5/day

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|No Mind

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Bonus Feat

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Kiai Smite 6/day

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Frightful Presence

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Bonus Feat
[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Weapons & Armor Proficiency: A Samurai is proficient with all simple and martial weapons as well as the katana, naginata, and wakizashi. Samurai are proficient with light and medium armor, but not with shields.

Ancestral Weapons
All Samurai begin play with any two masterwork weapons they have proficiency with. These are weapons that belonged to the Samurai's ancestors, and protecting the weapons is an important point of honor for the Samurai. As a Samurai acquires treasure through adventuring, he has the option of awakening the supernatural abilities latent in the weapons.

At any time, a Samurai may retreat to a temple or shrine and spend time in prayer in order to awaken the ancestral spirits in one or both of his weapons. Doing so makes his ancestral weapon into a magic item. He may grant it an enhancement bonus equal to ½ his class level, half of which may be magical properties. A Samurai cannot use this feature to grant a weapon an enhancement bonus to attack and damage greater than +5 unless he is 21st level or higher.

This process requires a sacrifice of valuable items worth the amount a spellcaster would spend to craft a similar magic item when using the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat as well as an equal amount of XP. This sacrifice does not have to be gold-the character can sacrifice magic items or other goods worth the required amount, rather than selling his goods to pay for the sacrifice.

The Samurai must spend one hour per 1,000 gp sacrificed in the shrine or temple kneeling before his ancestors and his weapons, not stopping to eat or rest. Many Samurai request the assistance of a Shugenja in this process, but a Shugenja is not required.

Before a Samurai's ancestral weapon becomes a +1 weapon, it is an ordinary masterwork weapon in every way. Its latent supernatural powers do not cause it to be considered a magic weapon until those powers are awakened .
A Samurai who loses either of his ancestral weapons is dishonored until he can recover them (see Ex-Samurai below). He cannot enhance any other weapon in this way.

No Fear (Ex): A Samurai is immune to all fear-effects.

Bonus Feats
At 2nd level, the Samurai gets a bonus feat. The Samurai gains an additional bonus feat at 5th level and every three levels thereafter (8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as Fighter bonus feats. A Samurai must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A Samurai is not limited to the list of Fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.

Kiai Smite (Ex): With a roar of martial power, a Samurai may focus all his will into a single, terrible strike. For this attack he gains a bonus to his attack roll equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1) and deals extra damage equal to his Charisma bonus + his class level (minimum +4).

A creature hit by a Samurai's Kiai Smite must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the Samurai's level + the Samurai's Charisma modifier) to avoid being Shaken for 1 minute. This is a fear-effect which can stack with other fear effects.

At 3rd level, a Samurai can execute a Kiai Smite only once per day. He gains additional uses per day every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th).

Staredown (Ex): At 4th level, a Samurai becomes able to strike fear into his foes by his mere presence. He gains a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks and when he successfully demoralizes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm) an opponent, that creature remains shaken as long as the Samurai threatens it and for 1 round thereafter.

Iaijutsu Master (Ex): By 7th level, a Samurai has become adept at Iaijutsu, a fighting technique that concentrates on drawing and striking with sudden, devastating force. He may draw or sheath any weapon he is proficient with as a free action (even if it isn't his turn) and gains a bonus to Initiative checks equal to his Charisma bonus (if any).

Improved Staredown (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a Samurai is able to demoralize all opponents within 30ft at once and may use the demoralize action as a move action. Opponents demoralized in this way remain shaken for as long as the Samurai remains within 30ft and for 1 round thereafter.

Piercing Gaze (Ex): At 13th level, a Samurai's fear effects can affect even opponents that are immune to fear, even Constructs and Undead. Samurai do not pierce the fear immunity of other Samurai.

No Mind (Ex): Starting at 16th level, for a number of rounds per day equal to ½ the Samurai's class level + his Charisma modifier, he may enter a state of No Mind. In this state he may act as though unaffected by mind-affecting effects and may make an extra attack at his highest attack bonus with either of his Ancestral Weapons at the end of a standard attack action, a charge, any time he makes an attack of opportunity, or during any full attack action.

While in a state of No Mind, a Samurai cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except item creation feats, and metamagic feats.

Entering No Mind is a free action, as is leaving it. The Samurai is subject to the affects of any mind-affecting effect whose duration has not yet finished when he leaves his state of No Mind.

Frightful Presence (Ex): A Samurai of 19th level can unsettle opponents with his mere presence. This ability takes effect automatically the first time each encounter the Samurai draws a weapon, or whenever he attacks. All opponents within 60ft of the Samurai are subject to the effect. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Samurai's class level + the Samurai’s Charisma modifier) remains immune to the Samurai's frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 10 minutes and those with 5 or more HD become frightened for 1 minute.

Samurai ignore the frightful presence of other creatures.

Code of Conduct
A Samurai must be of lawful alignment, and dishonors himself, if he ever willingly commits a chaotic act or loses one or more of his ancestral weapons. Additionally, the Samurai code of Bushido requires that he accept death at any time and face it bravely, avenge any dishonor to himself or his ancestors (though not necessarily with violence), and shun any acts of cowardice. The core principles of Bushido are honor, loyalty, and courage.

Ex-Samurai
A Samurai who becomes nonlawful, loses one or more of his ancestral weapons, or otherwise violates the tenets of his Code of Conduct cannot gain new levels as a Samurai. He retains all his bonus feats and extraordinary class features, but his ancestral weapons lose any "awakened" magical
abilities. If the Samurai returns to lawful alignment, he must atone for his violations (see the Atonement spell description in the Player's Handbook) and redeem his honor in order to restore his weapons to their prior status and to regain his ability to gain new levels as a Samurai.

D20ragon
2013-11-14, 05:09 PM
Nice! I quite like it. I'm not to good at review,so I'll hang around and wait for the professionals opinion.
Also,you didn't say what ancestral weapon does. A table or something would be nice. I assume that it does the same thing that it does in oriental adventures?

Ziegander
2013-11-14, 05:14 PM
Nice! I quite like it. I'm not to good at review,so I'll hang around and wait for the professionals opinion.
Also,you didn't say what ancestral weapon does. A table or something would be nice. I assume that it does the same thing that it does in oriental adventures?

Yeah, I realized that. I edited it, so that hopefully it's clear now. What do you think on re-read?

Jormengand
2013-11-14, 05:21 PM
Does being "Dishonoured" (losing one of your weapons) actually have a mechanical effect?

Also, you said they "Are proficient light and medium armor." Should that not say "Proficient in light and medium armour"?

Fear-effects can probably drop the hyphen.

Capstone of a bonus feat? Ehh... I'd be tempted to take a fighter level for the fortitude boost, or even barbarian to get fortitude and reflex. If you want people taking their twentieth level in this class, it needs to be worth taking.

Ziegander
2013-11-14, 05:36 PM
Does being "Dishonoured" (losing one of your weapons) actually have a mechanical effect?

Also, you said they "Are proficient light and medium armor." Should that not say "Proficient in light and medium armour"?

Fixed these.


Fear-effects can probably drop the hyphen.

Maybe.


Capstone of a bonus feat? Ehh... I'd be tempted to take a fighter level for the fortitude boost, or even barbarian to get fortitude and reflex. If you want people taking their twentieth level in this class, it needs to be worth taking.

I'm honestly not that concerned with a capstone in this case. Just that the class is a functional Tier 4 class. Do you think I made it?

D20ragon
2013-11-14, 05:39 PM
I think you've done it very well,but that's just me.:smallwink:

Just to Browse
2013-11-14, 05:59 PM
What about rogue Samurai (I think they're called Ronin)? I feel like this would match them mechanically, but they're not really functional under this system. If you want to fill that gap, I'd suggest something like the Races of War Samurai's dedication ability--where they're either in service to someone and immune to effects that work against that person, or they just receive a flat bonus to saves against mind-affecting effects.

The way it's written, it seems like the total bonus cannot exceed +5, but I assume you just want the numerical bonus not to exceed +5. It would be nice to make that more explicit.

Kiai Smite + Staredown gives the Samurai a good reason to keep decent Charisma (which I like from a design standpoint) even though the latter doesn't synergize very much with the rest of the Samurai kit (ATTACK THE THINGS). The biggest annoyance for me is that the samurai would rather run up and stab something than demoralize (for a whopping -2 to attacks) it and not be in range for an attack, so he's probably not going to use staredown much at all. So I think that needs some sort of tactical boost.

Honestly, this is a fighter class + free weapon enhancements and some cool looking filler, which I think sits fine at Tier 4 regardless of what you stuff in between bonus feats. The one thing I'd like to see is consolidation of weapon enhancement: For example, paying 4,000gp to get a +1 keen ancestral longbow and a +1 keen ancestral longsword. Because fighters need money.

~Corvus~
2013-11-14, 06:13 PM
Yeah, ~tier 5-4 until level 7. I'm not sure after that, but I can assure you, every attack action would be an Iaijutstu Focus attack after that point. Getting fear effects past ~level 9 is somewhat useless, as Fear is one of the easiest things to resist (Mind Blank and items that grant it are common).

The 16th level ability is incredibly potent, but not worth the 9 levels past 7 to get there: I'd rather take 13 levels of something else, such as a Fatetamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9952579#post9952579)13 where things get nuts 8th level and up.

Ziegander
2013-11-14, 06:14 PM
What about rogue Samurai (I think they're called Ronin)? I feel like this would match them mechanically, but they're not really functional under this system. If you want to fill that gap, I'd suggest something like the Races of War Samurai's dedication ability--where they're either in service to someone and immune to effects that work against that person, or they just receive a flat bonus to saves against mind-affecting effects.

Maybe I should throw Ronin a bone somewhere, but I don't tend to agree that Ronin and Samurai should have the same class features (I know, in some ways that doesn't make a lot of sense, especially for those Samurai who decide in the middle of gameplay, to go chaotic).


The way it's written, it seems like the total bonus cannot exceed +5, but I assume you just want the numerical bonus not to exceed +5. It would be nice to make that more explicit.

Yeah, I can make that more explicit.


Kiai Smite + Staredown gives the Samurai a good reason to keep decent Charisma (which I like from a design standpoint) even though the latter doesn't synergize very much with the rest of the Samurai kit (ATTACK THE THINGS). The biggest annoyance for me is that the samurai would rather run up and stab something than demoralize (for a whopping -2 to attacks) it and not be in range for an attack, so he's probably not going to use staredown much at all. So I think that needs some sort of tactical boost.

Well, yeah, they don't have strong standard action attacks. But, he can always run up and stab his foe and then demoralize him after. Then again, a move action to demoralize everyone within 30ft isn't a terrible trade.

Though, maybe I'll ditch Improved Staredown and fold its effect into the base Staredown feature, leaving it as a standard action and upgrading it to move action at 10th level?


The one thing I'd like to see is consolidation of weapon enhancement: For example, paying 4,000gp to get a +1 keen ancestral longbow and a +1 keen ancestral longsword. Because fighters need money.

I've done that in the past, but I'm leery of doing it here as that amounts to enchanting his weapons for ¼ the price, which is definitely a huge discount.

Ziegander
2013-11-14, 06:22 PM
Getting fear effects past ~level 9 is somewhat useless, as Fear is one of the easiest things to resist (Mind Blank and items that grant it are common).

Good point. I've switched out Improved Staredown with Piercing Gaze.


The 16th level ability is incredibly potent, but not worth the 9 levels past 7 to get there: I'd rather take 13 levels of something else, such as a Fatetamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9952579#post9952579)13 where things get nuts 8th level and up.

Well, sure, but that's an intentionally more powerful class, so...

~Corvus~
2013-11-14, 06:25 PM
Good point. I've switched out Improved Staredown with Piercing Gaze.

Very nice! Samurai can affect each other again!

ngilop
2013-11-14, 08:54 PM
I like it. you basically did the core of what I did with my samurai fix, combine the CW and OA one and make him able to affect those immune to fear.

THough i made teh ancestral weapons be cheaper than standard and let it be an option of weapon OR armor.


Its a huge leap forward for the samurai and you should be happy. you did a great job.