[D&D 3.5] Symbiotic Swarm

[Kevingway]

In continuum from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833).

I'm interested in a few key points that this author spells out (creature + swarm via symbiotic creature template in Savage Species). One in particular, which is given no real explanation/reason (not that it's any major concern), is that the symbiotic creature created as a result of the combining of a creature + a swarm cannot perform grapples. Why might that be?

Secondly, I'm curious about the attacks that a swarm would actually be allowed via the combined symbiotic creature. According to Savage Species:

if the guest has a different attack form (such as a stinger), the symbiotic creature can make a secondary attack with that weapon. If the guest is Tiny or smaller, using its attack(s) would normally require entering the opponent’s space. Since it is now part of a larger being, the only way to bring its attack(s) to bear is by entering a grapple and getting a hold.

To go back to the earlier question, this quote doesn't state that a symbiotic creature cannot perform grapple checks. But also, why would the author of the aforementioned post describe your new character as being unable to make the attacks of the swarm? Granted, you are no longer considered a "swarm," but nor are you considered to be the same tiny creature that could make its own natural weapon attack from your back or wherever you decide to stick the poor thing (presumably not your loins). The quote only mentions attack forms, not natural attacks, regardless of type.

Anyway, because the old thread was locked, I'd also like this to be a place for general discussion. I post a lot of theorycrafting threads that don't seem to bite right away, which is interesting considering the potential for the community to brew ideas. This one certainly deserves some more exploration and explicit rules clarification for anyone willing to take a crack at the concept as a whole.

[shaikujin]

For the cannot grapple thing, I believe it's because the symbiotic creature gains all traits from the guest. Including the traits of the Swarm subtype:

[Quote from http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm]
Traits
A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or lower causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.

[End Quote]

[Sgt. Cookie]

Shaikujin has it more or less right, a Swarm cannot grapple.

As a result, at least in the aforementioned thread, the only attack the DBS can use is the Poison Pollen, because that's not dependent on the swarm physically attacking an opponent.

If we extend this out, the only "attacks" that a symbiotic swarm can use are attacks that are not actually dependent on the swarm surrounding an opponent.