Shot on the Run vs Weapon Specialization Tree

[KingSmitty]

So currently Rogue 4 / Fighter 3 / Champion of the Wild (Ranger Variant) 3 and im torn.

levels 11 and 12 I get to choose 3 feat, 1 bonus fighter feat, 1 feat for losing spell casting in my ranger, and 1 level up feat.

I'm debating going the Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run route, and being able to move between attacks still applying sneak attack while i am within 30 ft, though i am unsure how Sneak attack applies to having multiple attacks per round, would i have to forfeit my 2 extra attacks while using shot on the run?

The other option is Weapon focus and specialization with shortbow and one other feat for the obvious reason to add to my to-hit

currently
Rogue 4 / Fighter 3 / Champion of the Wild 3
with
Improved Initiative
Quick Draw
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Precise Shot
Close-Quarters Fighting

+9/+4 (+4 dex ( +1 small with a total to-hit of +14/+9)

what would you do in my situation?

Also if I go the specialization route, are there any feats that improve my sneak attack or am I screwed in that dept?

[Devronq]

The most.important thong to ask for anyone gives you any answer is what is the rest of the party and how optimized is the game? Your build for example isn't very good I'm not sure exactly what your going for but there is way better ways to do it so beware someone might suggest something that is way better than the rest of the party and you don't want to completly over shadow others.

Some general advise the dodge mobility shot on the run line of feats are pretty bad in most peoples opinion. Go for a way to get pounce, pounce Leta you move and make a full attack is way way superior to spring attack/shot on the run. The beat thing to do if you want to make the beat use of your sneak attack is to go two weapon fighting, because yes every attack made can apply sneak attack if it qualifys.
Can you change your build? Doing so would improve you alot more than picking feat a at this point. If you can't change the build is suggest craven (+1 dam per sneak attack dice) or telling.blows (critical hits trigger sneak attacks.)
Do not take weapon focus/specializarion feats unless they are a prerequisite for something they are very bad feats Compared to what you could have.
Hmm also ever heard of the splitting weapon ability? Its quite ridiculous you know how speed grants you an extra attack for a +4 bonus? Well splitting doubles your bow attacks and its only +3.

[Togath]

So currently Rogue 4 / Fighter 3 / Champion of the Wild (Ranger Variant) 3 and im torn.

levels 11 and 12 I get to choose 3 feat, 1 bonus fighter feat, 1 feat for losing spell casting in my ranger, and 1 level up feat.

I'm debating going the Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run route, and being able to move between attacks still applying sneak attack while i am within 30 ft, though i am unsure how Sneak attack applies to having multiple attacks per round, would i have to forfeit my 2 extra attacks while using shot on the run?

The other option is Weapon focus and specialization with shortbow and one other feat for the obvious reason to add to my to-hit

currently
Rogue 4 / Fighter 3 / Champion of the Wild 3
with
Improved Initiative
Quick Draw
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Precise Shot
Close-Quarters Fighting

+9/+4 (+4 dex ( +1 small with a total to-hit of +14/+9)

what would you do in my situation?

Also if I go the specialization route, are there any feats that improve my sneak attack or am I screwed in that dept?

first of all.. if possible, drop your third fighter level, any more than two are a waste.
Second, if building sneak attack, you want the two-weapon fighting tree, grabbing pounce if possible(from barbarian for example).
*as an additional point; ranged sneak attacks.. don't tend to work from anything other than an ambush, since the target needs to be flat-footed to you, flanked, or unable to apply it's dex bonus to AC.

[Waker]

Is this character being played right now or is this something you are in the process of building? Also what race did you choose? The reason I ask is that in order to make use of Archery with precision damage is to either go with Scout or the ambush route as Togath points out. Should you go with the latter route, it might be useful to grab Hide in Plain Sight. Combining HiPS with Shot on the Run means you can move, attack with Sneak Attack and then move again, Hiding in conjunction with the second move. Rinse and repeat.

[lytokk]

For my two cp, I'd say, go for the weapon spec based on your build. Since as pointed out, the sneak attack damage only works when your opponent is flat footed or loses their dex modifier to AC, the weapon spec is going to ensure that you're at least hitting for a bonus bit of damage every time you do hit.

I'm not sure about improving your sneak attack, but I remember a feat called hamstring, which required sneak attack. But, that may only apply to melee attacks. In essence, it hobbled your opponent, making them move at half move, which would be great for keeping you out of melee range.

[Pluto!]

The Shot on the Run feat line is pretty bad. You only get one attack per round with it (and individual bow attacks have very low damage), and you sink a lot of otherwise dead feats into it (Dodge is small enough to rarely matter, even if you remember to assign its bonus, Mobility only matters if you're letting yourself get in melee range, which you really should try to avoid).

The Weapon Specialization line is usually considered a bad feat line as well, but it's somewhat better than usual on ranged combatants because Rapid Shot, Splitting bows and the general tactical advantage of being able to make full attacks while stationary mean that ranged combatants usually roll dice for a lot of separate attacks, which makes the flat damage bonus for an independent attack somewhat more pertinent than it is on something like a knockback charger. Additionally, Ranged Weapon Specialization's range increase is also an understated but significant bonus in thrown weapon builds, though in this case, with an archer constrained by sneak attack range increments, that's probably less relevant.

With your existing build, I would grab Rapid Shot before anything else, because it plays a big part in an archer's damage output, then grab Craven while putting levels into classes that would facilitate reliable ranged sneak attacks - typically meaning a prestige class with accelerated access to magical (or alternate magic subsystem) effects, like Champion of Weald and Woe, Assassin, Consecrated Harrier, Incarnate on the off-chance your dude's Chaotic Neutral or either Swordsage or Warblade. Basically, the goal would just be having more things to do each round than attack attack attack, since that leaves a pretty one-dimensional and easily-thwarted combat routine, and it doesn't usually scale well into higher levels.

EDIT:
I don't see the Archery Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2892.0) linked yet here. You will probably want to check it out, since it gives a lot of good rules of thumb and suggestions for archer characters.

[Person_Man]

My 2cp:

Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization are all generally considered very weak Feats. Shot on the Run is far less useful then just taking a move action and then using Manyshot (or Greater Manyshot, if you're worried about getting Sneak Attack on every attack roll). Everything else provides very small and sometimes situational bonuses.

Fighter 3 is a dead level. Fighter 2 or Fighter 4 (or Fighter 0) would be preferable.

Heavily multi-classing is worthwhile at low levels. But at mid-higher level, you're screwing yourself out of access to more useful high level class abilities, spells, powers, etc. Your build might have a bunch of Feats, but you've chosen very weak Feats, and Feats in general are weaker then class abilities. For example, Rogue 10 with just Quickdraw, Weapon Finesse, and Two-Weapon Fighting would deal +5d6 Sneak Attack, could make 3 attacks every round with both melee and ranged attacks (via thrown weapons), would have Evasion AND Uncanny Dodge AND Improved Uncanny Dodge, would have better Skills, and would have one Special Ability (probably Crippling Strike or Opportunist), and could look forward to more Special Abilities and scaled Sneak Attack.

[KingSmitty]

Thanks for the replies!

Yes I'm aware fighter 3 is a dead level, i plan on being Rogue 4/ Fighter 4/ Ranger 4 shortly.

Unfortunately, when we created the characters, i was going for a rogue swashbuckler build. It wasn't until a couple play sessions in that we started getting screwed because the entire party was comprised of martial characters, I managed to convince our DM that it would be good to let me change my swashbuckler levels for ranger levels at level 8, it got confusing and whatever but now, I'm stuck with what ive got per the DM and thats a level Rog4 fF3 Rgr3.

Luckily, next two levels give me 3 feats to try and make up for my uselessness, after that I'm not sure but I'll probably PrC something but who knows. I might use an ACF that lets me say bye to my animal companion, cant seem to find one thats useful though.

bottom line is I'm a pretty weak but the only range attacker in my group save for the crossbow our monk carries we have one pretty insane barbarian who kills whoever is nearby if her rage is still active unless she beats a will save (which she made clear she would probably not attempt) so i'd like to steer clear of her.

As for race I went with the Whisper Gnome, because you cant beat free Darkvision and +8 to hide and the extra to-hit and AC

if you think it would be best to erase the "smudges" on my sheet to make things better, offer some suggestions!:smallbiggrin:

[hakeashar]

Retraining options are available in PHBII, p192, table 8-1.

Perhaps your DM would allow you some leeway if you pique his interest or amusement.