CthulhuTech Houserules

[Grac]

CthulhuTech is one of my favorite settings, but I find Framewerk and the poker dice to just be silly. While I'm perfectly OK with houseruling a complete change of mechanics, and have started to do so, I'm wondering if anyone else has done a comprehensive rules conversion to a more normal mechanic, such as a d20, d10, 3d6, or whatever?

Edit: It was easy enough getting the game down to a nice compact system, similar to Microlite20, except with a d10, possibly a d12, as far as characters are concerned. One thing I'm confused about: Rules for vehicles, engels, tagers, mechs. I think it is implied that they have no rules of their own and just modify the character's stats but I can't find where it's made explicit.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I thought about converting it to NWoD-style d10 once and got bored after five minutes of outlining. Does that count?

(My main problem with it is less the poker dice and more the combat movement rules being basically useless for actually playing a game. Especially for mecha/vehicles).

[SaurOps]

I'd go with Trinity. It has more detailed rules for vehicles and psychic powers, and its scaling system probably makes it a bit easier to convert some weapon types over (no real need to convert exact models; ST isn't granular enough for most model differences to make a mechanical impact). Tagers and dhoanoids can use lower-power material from Aberrant to match their symbiotes' capabilities.

You'll still have to deal with the setting, though, which is quite possibly even more problematic than the system used to describe it. Thanks, misinterpretation of Shadow Over Innsmouth!

[Grac]

It was easy enough getting the game down to a nice compact system, as far as characters are concerned. One thing I'm confused about: Rules for vehicles, engels, tagers, mechs. I think it is implied that they have no rules of their own and just modify the character's stats but I can't find where it's made explicit.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Vehicles, Engels, and Mechs have their own stats, most of which are additive with their pilots (Control Response+Agility, Sensors+Perception, Multi-Task Systems+Actions and Warning Systems+Reflex). Targeting Systems also add a static bonus to Firearms and Support Weapons attacks. For skill rolls, you always use the pilots' dice, modified by the mech's total attributes.

Mechs/Vehicles/Engels have their own HP (Integrity instead of Vitality), armor, weapons, movement, and a number of support and miscellaneous systems.

Tagers are another kettle of fish entirely, and I believe they're entirely a set of bonuses and extra weapons, armor, and movement modes added to the character while transformed.

Chapter 10 and the second half of Chapter 9 of the Core Rulebook cover. most of this.

Personally, what I would do is make piloted things their own entities that use their pilots' skill analogues (and add their pilots' Agility and Perception analogues to their own) whereas Tagers are a set of attribute and equipment bonuses you can add while transformed.

[Grac]

Thank you for that. Found what I needed to know in the combat chapter. Which made the incomplete info in the vehicle chapter make sense. I have no idea why I never looked in the combat chapter :smallfrown:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Thank you for that. Found what I needed to know in the combat chapter. Which made the incomplete info in the vehicle chapter make sense. I have no idea why I never looked in the combat chapter :smallfrown:

And I have no idea why they don't cover mecha combat in the mecha chapter.

[The Glyphstone]

And I have no idea why they don't cover mecha combat in the mecha chapter.

Because it's Cthulhutech? Most of what makes the game good is the concept - everything else, including execution, ranges from mediocre on downward. Rulebook layout is no exception.

[tensai_oni]

Because it's Cthulhutech? Most of what makes the game good is the concept - everything else, including execution, ranges from mediocre on downward. Rulebook layout is no exception.

I think you're being too kind to the game. "Let's take Evangelion, Guyver and a few other things I like and add them to Call of Cthulhu!" isn't how you make a good RPG, it's how you make a mediocre fanfic.

Also the more I hear of the author and how he handles criticism (for example people being uncomfortable with a certain infamously horrible device), the less I like him and his game. So I'm probably biased.

[Grac]

I think you're being too kind to the game. "Let's take Evangelion, Guyver and a few other things I like and add them to Call of Cthulhu!" isn't how you make a good RPG, it's how you make a mediocre fanfic.

Also the more I hear of the author and how he handles criticism (for example people being uncomfortable with a certain infamously horrible device), the less I like him and his game. So I'm probably biased.

I think you are being a bit harsh there, but different tastes, I guess :smallredface:. What I find great about CthulhuTech is that it combines a bunch of things which are very diverse, but share some core ideas, centrally the combination of NGE and Mythos. NGE is already very much like a near-future Mythos story that is heavy on the action. CthulhuTech brings the horrific nature of that more to the front, while also playing up just how normalised it's become. I wouldn't say that it is just a random crossover, but more an integration of NGE into Mythos (where NGE belongs, IMO), and updated to cover the expectations we have of technology 20 years later.

I don't know anything about the author, so I won't comment on any of that (though I will ask what reactions to which horrible device?). All I know is that when I heard about the game, I thought the idea was perfect, but when I read the book, the execution was exceptionally flawed, both in a wonky rules system, and the rules/fiction don't match what I would like in terms of feel/mood from such a game. I like the Mythos idea that the best we can hope for is a delaying of the inevitable. Glyph really summed it up well.

[The Glyphstone]

I think you're being too kind to the game. "Let's take Evangelion, Guyver and a few other things I like and add them to Call of Cthulhu!" isn't how you make a good RPG, it's how you make a mediocre fanfic.

Also the more I hear of the author and how he handles criticism (for example people being uncomfortable with a certain infamously horrible device), the less I like him and his game. So I'm probably biased.

That's part of what I meant by 'execution on downward' - you're getting too specific. The base concept of "Lovecraft mythos meets giant robots' is pretty cool on its own, along with the more general underlying theme of humanity simply being awesome enough to fight back against cosmic horror, but still mythos-appropriate in how it's mostly a delaying action even with said giant robots. The actual implementation of these potentially cool themes, though, ends up as an Evangelion-Cthulhu crossover fanfic, add extreme doses of misogyny and sexism, flavor with convoluted rules and terrible book layout, boil with way too many cooks in the kitchen, then sprinkle some ridiculously railroaded adventure plots on top.

[tensai_oni]

I don't know anything about the author, so I won't comment on any of that (though I will ask what reactions to which horrible device?).

MikeV's reactions to any kind of criticism is "this is how we played/this is my game, deal with it". This includes the infamous "rape chair". Although admittedly, he usually responds like that to complaints about gameplay and not fluff. For the fluff, the author(s) like to pretend that regularly occuring rape-y themes (in addition to alread mentioned sexism) are no big deal instead, exaggerated by internet people with delicate sensibilities and too much time on their hands.

You know, a game where rape is shown and described in detail in an official adventure, and no the players cannot stop it. A game where apparently there is "open sexuality" in the future, which means people lose virginity by the time they're 12 on average.

Skeeviness and EDGY levels are off the chart.

[Nerd-o-rama]

MikeV's reactions to any kind of criticism is "this is how we played/this is my game, deal with it". This includes the infamous "rape chair". Although admittedly, he usually responds like that to complaints about gameplay and not fluff. For the fluff, the author(s) like to pretend that regularly occuring rape-y themes (in addition to alread mentioned sexism) are no big deal instead, exaggerated by internet people with delicate sensibilities and too much time on their hands.

You know, a game where rape is shown and described in detail in an official adventure, and no the players cannot stop it. A game where apparently there is "open sexuality" in the future, which means people lose virginity by the time they're 12 on average.

Skeeviness and EDGY levels are off the chart.

Hey, at least it's not Bliss Stage. Although conversely I love BS's mechanics.

[tensai_oni]

Hey, at least it's not Bliss Stage. Although conversely I love BS's mechanics.

I like Bliss Stage, but CthulhuTech creeps me out.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I like Bliss Stage, but CthulhuTech creeps me out.

Well, Bliss Stage acknowledges its own creepiness as part of the horror/post-apocalyptic aspect, so it has that going for it.