What Tier is the Savant?

[yaluckyboy09]

So I want to play as a Savant (from the Dragon Magazine) and I was just wondering what Tier that class falls in

edit: I found a site (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11714.0;wap2) that claims it's in Tier 3, any confirmations?

[Psyren]

T4 at best. No way is it T3, the spell access is too low and too slow.

[yaluckyboy09]

T4 at best. No way is it T3, the spell access is too low and too slow.

right... I was reading the Tier list backwards

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm. Decent skills, low spell progression, low sneak attack progression, a handful of bonus feats... yeah, you're tier 4: capable of doing many things with moderate competence.

[Smegskull]

This is why I hate the tier system it basically says magic is all that matters.
Makes a big deal out of things like "higher level creatures can't be crit and are immune to sneak" (solved by 1 feat). completely ignores the "higher level creatures have massive spell resistance, energy immunities and dwell in anti-magic fields" magic users are so stuck up, I can't wait to get to an antimagic field, see my wizard go, "oh no fighter help" so I can go "sorry I am not a high enough tier to engage in this encounter".

for the tier system to work it needs two scales one for magic and one for mundane.

[Extra Anchovies]

This is why I hate the tier system it basically says magic is all that matters.
Makes a big deal out of things like "higher level creatures can't be crit and are immune to sneak" (solved by 1 feat). completely ignores the "higher level creatures have massive spell resistance, energy immunities and dwell in anti-magic fields" magic users are so stuck up, I can't wait to get to an antimagic field, see my wizard go, "oh no fighter help" so I can go "sorry I am not a high enough tier to engage in this encounter".

for the tier system to work it needs two scales one for magic and one for mundane.

Well, it's not that magic is all that matters. It's that magic is all that is capable of breaking the game. The tier system is not a direct measure of power so much as it is a measure of how hard it is to present each class with a challenge they can't easily solve given enough time and preparation. A barbarian is useless, for example, when researching in a library or when negotiating, regardless of the advance notice said barbarian has. A binder can, given a chance to prepare the right vestiges, can do both pretty well (even at the same time): Dantalion (+8 to Knowledge checks, at-will one-target surface thought reading, among other things) and The Triad (+5 Diplomacy and Sense Motive, bardic knowledge, 15 pp, and the powers Empathy and Detect Hostile Intent, among other things) can be bound simultaneously starting at 12th level. The next day, when there's a combat encounter, the barbarian can fight pretty darn well. The binder can also bring some combat power to bear in a number of different ways, and although they may not be as good in combat as the barbarian, they'll still be able to contribute meaningfully to the fight with the right vestige selection.

Remember, T1 and T2 only differ from T3 and T4 in that they're capable of breaking the game, e.g. planar binding wish loops. T3 and T4 are all playable classes, and can outshine T1 and T2 in the situations that they're specialized for. T5 and T6 are where you start seeing legitimately subpar classes. The T6 classes aren't saveable, but proper optimization on a T5 class can make it actually pretty great. TO can make even the monk seem broken (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25&p=15474863#post15474863), and higher-T5 classes like the paladin don't even need much at all in the way of shenanigans to be a useful addition to a party (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376).

[Roland St. Jude]

Please don't revive old threads.