The Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[Morphie]

Hello guys :)

I just loved reading them on Terry Prachett's/Neil Gaiman's "Good Omens" and it got me wondering:

How would my fellow playgrounders build the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
- Death
- War
- Famine
- Pestilence

Thanks

[Ravens_cry]

I think Famine would be a Blighter, Pestilence is Cancer Mage, Death a Bone Knight and War, hmm, tricky. Warblade?
Note, this is going by the older sources, as, sadly, I have not had a chance to read Good Omens.

[Talya]

I think Famine would be a Blighter, Pestilence is Cancer Mage, Death a Bone Knight and War, hmm, tricky. Warblade?
Note, this is going by the older sources, as, sadly, I have not had a chance to read Good Omens.

Of course, by older sources, Famine & Pestilence were the same horseman. War, Famine, and Death were the 2nd, 3rd and 4th named. The first was a rider with a crown on a white horse, generally associated with conquest.

But we should probably not go too far in depth on older sources here.

Good Omens is a spectacular book, and frees us up to treat Famine & Pestilence as separate horsemen.

[THEChanger]

Of course, with regards to Good Omens, Pestilence has gotten right frustrated with a little fungus named Penicillin, and handed over the silver crown to Pollution. Perhaps a Thrall of Juiblex?

[Ravens_cry]

Of course, with regards to Good Omens, Pestilence has gotten right frustrated with a little fungus named Penicillin, and handed over the silver crown to Pollution. Perhaps a Thrall of Juiblex?
They must *love* Jenny McCarthy though.:smallyuk:

[Morphie]

Yes, it is a great book :)
But I was thinking in a broader sense, regarding the possible uses of this type of characters in a future adventure, as opponents, like some generals for the BBEG, or even as a combination of classes the party could choose.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks

[Ravens_cry]

Yes, it is a great book :)
But I was thinking in a broader sense, regarding the possible uses of this type of characters in a future adventure, as opponents, like some generals for the BBEG, or even as a combination of classes the party could choose.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks
I'd use them almost like forces of nature. They aren't good, they aren't evil, they simply are. Sometimes the Horsemen ride.
Sometimes one, sometimes two, and sometimes all four, generally to signal the end of an era. The big bad might try to enslave them to his control, steer them against his enemies, perhaps.

[kevin_video]

The 3.5 Advanced Bestiary actually has the four horsemen as templates that you can put on your characters.

[Lvl45DM!]

They'd be really really really powerful. Equivalent to an Arch-Devil or Demon Lord in power. And they'd be more powerful together I think.

War is a great warrior but his real skillset is getting others to fight. Some kind of contagious berserk rage effect.
Famine would be about destroying human's ability to feed themselves, a miles wide aura of desolation killing all plants and animals, maybe a withering power in combat? Sort of an anti-druid.
Pestilence would BE disease. Can't hit it, can't fireball it. Gotta just isolate and cure the disease, Like a swarm of vermin but even smaller.
Death's role is not to be the grim reaper. He RAISES the dead. Drags the souls outta hell. So he wouldn't be killing you he'd get his zombies to kill you then raise you as a zombie

[Vaz]

I'd use them almost like forces of nature. They aren't good, they aren't evil, they simply are. Sometimes the Horsemen ride.
Sometimes one, sometimes two, and sometimes all four, generally to signal the end of an era. The big bad might try to enslave them to his control, steer them against his enemies, perhaps.

Sounds like the plot to Darksiders 1.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you've ever played Nethack, you'll know that War is whatever class/race combination he damn well pleases.

[Ravens_cry]

Sounds like the plot to Darksiders 1.
Haven't seen it to be honest.

[Gwendol]

I think Famine would be a Blighter, Pestilence is Cancer Mage, Death a Bone Knight and War, hmm, tricky. Warblade?
Note, this is going by the older sources, as, sadly, I have not had a chance to read Good Omens.

War should be a cleric: ordained champion.

[Vaz]

Haven't seen it to be honest.

It's a bit convoluted and fairly badly written Synopsis, but the general gist of it is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksiders). If you're on Steam and play games a fair bit, it's only $20, but it's worth waiting until the sales are on, and trying to pick it up them.

[Ravens_cry]

It's a bit convoluted and fairly badly written Synopsis, but the general gist of it is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksiders). If you're on Steam and play games a fair bit, it's only $20, but it's worth waiting until the sales are on, and trying to pick it up them.
Thank you. :smallsmile:

[Brookshw]

Haven't seen it to be honest.

I highly recommend it, think Zelda meets Devil May Cry.

[Phase]

Well, in Pathfinder, at least, the Horsemen are actually the lords of the Daemons in the Neutral Evil plane of Abbadon. Each have their own race of deacons amongst the Daemons, and command massive forces. They're end-game epic-level type threats, if that.

If you wanna go lower concept with it, you can take some inspiration from the recent Sleepy Hollow show, wherein the Headless Horseman of legend is actually literally Death himself. Pretty great.

[Slipperychicken]

Conquest would be the buffer/face character. Probably handles healing too. [Bard? Bard/ToB?]

War is the tanky dps. [Barbarian? Crusader?]

Death is the striker/DPS. [Necromancer built for negative levels?]

Famine/Pesilence is the debuffer. [Druid?]

[Emperor Tippy]

You first need to better explain what you want and the power level that you want.

Because going by mythology and fictional portrayals you can justify everything from ECL 10 or so all the way up to DR 20 greater deities.

[Arcanist]

You first need to better explain what you want and the power level that you want.

Because going by mythology and fictional portrayals you can justify everything from ECL 10 or so all the way up to DR 20 greater deities.

This. I personal favorite the idea of the Horsemen being Lesser Cosmic Entities. Not quite Gods, but living incarnations of mortals fears. The "End times" personified if you will. I'd see them, at minimum, as being 40th level Lesser Deities. As far as builds go? It really depends which version of the Horsemen you prefer.

Hell, I can even imagine these as being Elder Evils of sorts if you want to go with the whole Sleepy Hollow sort of thing (Not a bad show, mind you). Regardless, I stand by the idea that the Horsemen are at minimum walking (ridding?) around with 40HD.

[Vaz]

While Deities and Demigod's balance state is "Isn't", but Hercules, a Demi God, has 20 Outsider HD, in addition to 40 levels of classes, with 5 Divine Ranks.

What it does say in "rules" (heh, combining Epic AND Deities? Rules?) is


Limited divine power can mean cutthroat divine politics, and you may not want your gods to act in such a manner. A supreme god could institute some sort of “divine police” to keep order in the gods’ home if such a system interests you. It’s possible to build a limited system in which the existing gods do not assimilate all the divine ranks at first, leaving some room for growth and the addition of new gods.

This seems like the perfect role for them.

In regards to 5 Divine ranks;


Rank 1–5: These entities, called demigods, are the weakest of the deities. A demigod can grant spells and perform a few deeds that are beyond mortal limits, such as hearing a grasshopper from a mile away.

A demigod has anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand devoted mortal worshipers and may receive veneration or respect from many more. A demigod controls a small godly realm (usually on an Outer Plane) and has minor control over a portfolio that includes one or more aspects of mortal existence. A demigod might be very accomplished in a single skill or a group of related skills, gain combat advantages in special circumstances, or be able to bring about minor changes in reality itself related to the portfolio. For example, a demigod of thieves might be able to change a stolen item so that it is no longer recognizable.

Deities and Demigods contains some extremely un-optimized choices; Divine Weapon Specialization for example; but using a similar process, you could have in a similar style;

War; Warblade 20/Barbarian 20 (obviously influenced by Darksiders, sorry); main damage dealer
Famine; Swarm-themed Druid 20/Bard 20; summons swarms etc while buffing other riders with acid/fire/poison themed stuff
Death; Swordsage 20/Death Master 20; supporting act to Wars' tank/damage
Conquest; Marshal 20/Crusader 20; leader, uses Aura's to coordinate allies.

[Luciandevine]

One thing that I think everybody might be forgetting, is that the horsemen don't necessarily have to have the classes themselves. Since they are likely to be tools of the DM, they can literally be any base race that the DM wants, and for intensive purposes, the DM can just give them benefits befitting a particular class.

This is something I have given some thought in the past. I have since forgotten a fair bit of the work I did, but let me see what I can remember.

War for example, could have the base stats of something like an iron golem, potentially changing the hit dice to D12's to represent his ability to tank and absorb incredible amounts of damage.Similarly, you could give him a constitution score and modifier, further adding to this archetype. Likewise, he would be immune to magic, forcing the pc's to confront him in the type of combat where he excels. Likewise, if you wanted to show his skill in combat, you could make him proficient with all weapons, give him bonus feats as though his hit dice were levels in the fighter class, and even have his Powerful Blow effect apply to any weapon he wields.

Death could quite simply be a Lich, increasing his hit dice, stats, and everything else up to the necessary power level that you want. Additional effects you could add are letting him add his charisma modifier to his hit dice to determine his hp, an effect from a 3.5 book that I have since forgotten. Another ability I considered, was giving him an aura, possibly 60 feet, or maybe even encompassing the full of whatever "arena" the pc's encounter him in. This aura could negate all healing effects done within it, as well as possibly automatically raise all dead pc's as undead to fight their former allies.

For Famine, my friends and I always thought of making him a humanoid shaped creature, but under the cloak that he wears, he is a swarm. People above have mentioned an aura that kills all plant life, potentially up to a mile radius around him. Something I considered to reflect this was an Aura of Horrid Wilting, as per the spell.

Pestilence was the one that my friends and I struggled the most with, and I think the idea that we finally settled on was from some lore that we read, again, I don't remember from when. It involved him being a fallen and corrupted angel. You could start with stats befitting whatever angel you choose, with certain keywords naturally changed to reflect whatever alignment you make him. I don't recall what aura or even class level equivalencies we gave him, so I'm sorry for that.

These are just possible suggestions that I came up with a long time ago. So please be gentle with any criticisms, lol.

[Vaz]

No real criticisms, but we've been asked "how would we build"; that typically suggests looking into the rulebooks for published creations.

Using Hercules as a Guideline, however 40 Class levels and 5 Divine ranks allows you to create anything you desire.

[Luciandevine]

Ah, I kind of missed that part, lol. In my mind, the horsemen are originally meant to oppose the pc's, thus allowing the dm to get creative where they feel it's necessary.

[Morphie]

You first need to better explain what you want and the power level that you want.

Because going by mythology and fictional portrayals you can justify everything from ECL 10 or so all the way up to DR 20 greater deities.

Thank you Mr. Tippy.
What I meant was: if you were to depict the Horsemen in D&D, what kind of choices would you make to build them? The power level and the optimization are up to you, let's say a 20 level build.
And the reason I asked is because this forum is filled with people that know a LOT about the game, and different perspectives of the same characters enrich my/our view of the game.

The suggestions have been really great so far, thank you all :smallbiggrin:

[Gwendol]

For Conquest maybe a bard like was suggested: Bard/Warchanter seems to fit the bill nicely.

[Mage keeper]

Once i created the four horsemen as NPC and except for pestilence they were also playble build
Death: female drow dread necromancer8/ur priest2/yathrinshee3/mistic theure7 in this way your CL for necromancy spell is 32 (you can workship Kiaransalee with ur priest read the adaptation)
War: warblade 20 as race you just have to choose a big size race
Famine: a blighter build
Pestilence:Marrash with 20 HD and with ooze template

[Xaktsaroth]

Famine strikes me as some sort of Blighter/Walker of the Wastes combo.

Between Blighters needing to deforest to regain spells and the Walkers aura turning everything to desert, you can affect an unholy amount of vegatation in a day, and it kinda of forces you to wander to new areas, deforesting more and more as you go.

[Zubrowka74]

I like to picture "Death" as "Time". Perhaps a time themed wizard, or a cleric with the Time domain.

[ArqArturo]

War: Khorne (http://youtu.be/9-gSJW3sHXE) (Fighter/Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker).

Pestilence: Nurgle (Rogue/Cancer Mage/Ur-Priest).

Death: Tzeentch (Wizard all the way).

Famine: Slaanesh (Rogue/something-something).

Also, personally, I go with the Pinnacle Entertainment's approach to the BBEG (Not the BBEG, but the Bee Bee Eee Gee): If you give it stats, players will kill it.

[Gorfnod]

I will just drop this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14516568#post14516568) off here.