Monster of Legend Questions

[HereBeMonsters]

Ok I know in the update the MoL got a +7 LA which seems like they threw a high number on there just to keep players from using it.

It is an extremely powerful Template no denying this but does it warren a +7? I have seem a lot of people saying maybe a +4 or 5 at the most.

+5 Natural Armor
RHD turns to d8 if you have em
Special Attacks
Breath Weapon every 1d4 rounds can use a 15 foot cone of 3d6 damage (Acid, Cold, Lightning, or fire Type) Reflex for halve.
Frightful Presence: 20 ft area, if a creature has less HD or Levels then the MoL it must make a Willsave to resist being shaken.
Poison Bite Attack with a Fort Save
Raging Blood (Pick if you have Acid, Lightning, or Fire in your viens) and it deals a 5 foot cone of 1d4 of that damage every time you're hit by piercing or slashing attacks.
Spells: MoL casts divine spells from the cleric spell list an from the Protection. Strength, and War Domains but does not gain the bonus Domain spell slots of a Cleric with 5th level spell slots of a cleric.

Special Qualities: You pick two of the following
Dr 10/+1
Enhanced Attributes: Spells, Spell Like Abilities, and Special attacks DC increase by +4
Fast Healing 5
Greater Damage (Increase your natural attack dice by one size)
Haste: has an extra partial round action as if effected by Haste spell
Immunities (To two of the following: Electricity, Fear, Acid, Poison, Polymorphing, Mind-Affecting effects)
Reflective: Permanently effected by Spell Turning
Regrow Limbs: Regrows arms, legs, or even the head in one round, cannot be slain by the head-severing ability of a vorpal blade.
See in the Darkness: See in darkness, even magical darkness.
Spell Resistance: 10+1/2 HD
Subtype: Pick from either Fire or Cold

10+ft Speed
Base saves are +3
Ability Scores are: Str: +10, Dex +6, Con +10, Int +2. Wis +2, Cha +4
Improved Imitative and Multiattacks are bonus feats.
Challenge Rating is Same as Base +2

Is that worth a +7?
Edit: For the Update I think that might be for the Minotaur MoL. Since it shows Feats not granted, Bonuses to Spot and the like which it does not give. So maybe it is reduced already?

[prufock]

The divine casting and permanent haste are pretty good abilities. With the divine casting you're basically getting a theurge or other dual-class capability out of it. That's pretty nice. Those ability score adjustments are great, too. Everything else is more or less gravy.

I'm not really a good judge of LA beyond maybe +3 or +4, though, so I can't tell you what it's really worth. Mainly because those are the breakpoints for getting your highest level abilities (spells, maneuvers, etc) - though there are some exceptions, like binder.

[HereBeMonsters]

Well I was curious because it does not have a LA and the Update seems wrong.

The Monster of Legend was a Minotaur which is already a high CR and the Update lists Great Fortitude, Track and Power Attack which are not feats granted to the Template but do exist on the Minotaur (If you count Scent as Track)

Also the Skill boosts where all for the Minotaur not the Template.

So what is the LA if the Update was just for the Minotaur.
Minotaur has 6 RHD and a +2 LA
So maybe a +5?

[ngilop]

LA 7 seems right to me, the boost to stats is crazy good plus you get 5th level casting ontop of that.

I am more than a little confused though by what your 2ns post is trying to get at.

i don;t really consider CR 4 to be a high CR high for me starts around mmm CR 14/15

i guess i don't know why you felt like saying that the monster of legend temlate don't give out bonus feats or bonus skill points and thats why it should have a lower LA?

I am of the thought that MoL is not meant tobe a playable template as it does say
A monster of legend is a creature chosen by a god to perform an appointed task. The creature is imbued with divine abilities and great strength to better accomplish its goal. A monster of legend is a unique creature and considered to be an archetype for creatures of the same kind. These divinely enhanced creatures are often set to guard artifacts or planar portals.

Monsters of legend are highly dangerous creatures. They are stronger, tougher, and fiercer than their normally encountered kin. Most have potent attack forms and special qualities that mark them as having been touched by divine forces. Monsters of legend are rarely encountered by chance. They leave their lairs only when on divine missions or when exacting revenge on those who threaten their divine missions


I think you might be getting LA and CR confused. and thats why you are thinking the tempaltes LA needs a huge nerf because its only CR +2 but the update did LA+7, and you have to realize CR does NOT equal LA

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv08242005.zip
check out pages 3 and 4

[HereBeMonsters]

I have that pdf and its not correct it has nothing to do with the template that update updated the Minotaur of Legend example. A Minotaur has a natural +2 LA

So if the MoL is +7 then the Minotaur of Legend would be a +9.
Because the only bonus feats it grants are Improved Initiative and Multiattack but the update says it grants Great Fortitude, Track, and Power Attack which the template does not say it grants. The skill boosts are also not on the template section its on the Monster Example.

Also that means a minimum of a lvl 8 character to have a HD at all. 1 HD for a level 8 monster using this template? Even if you had a 20 Con thats easy for the lvl 8 fighter to drop let alone a lvl 8 caster

[Zombimode]

I have that pdf and its not correct it has nothing to do with the template that update updated the Minotaur of Legend example. A Minotaur has a natural +2 LA

So if the MoL is +7 then the Minotaur of Legend would be a +9.
Because the only bonus feats it grants are Improved Initiative and Multiattack but the update says it grants Great Fortitude, Track, and Power Attack which the template does not say it grants. The skill boosts are also not on the template section its on the Monster Example.

Also that means a minimum of a lvl 8 character to have a HD at all. 1 HD for a level 8 monster using this template? Even if you had a 20 Con thats easy for the lvl 8 fighter to drop let alone a lvl 8 caster

The update isn't wrong, but the formating is confusing: it contains both the updates to the sample statblock (the minotaur) as well as the updates for the template itself, with no dividing line.

The Legendary Minotaur has the same feats as a normal minotaur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm) plus those granted by the template. The skills also are in line with the 3.5 minotaur.

Yeah, a Monster of Legend Minotaur as a player character would have a LA of 9 (plus 6 racial hit dice, so it would be an ECL 15 character with no class).

Yes, a fighter level 1 with this template would be a ECL 8 character.

Sometime, as an D&D player, you have to step back and realize: "This is a DM's tool. I should leave it as that and play something else instead."

[Sejoran]

Even though im super late here i thought id add my 2 cents here.

I believe Zombimode here is right, the update to template and the example creature are in the same update. Which makes it hard to read. Basically the changes that i can see here are thus: DR 10/+1 goes to DR 10/magic(simply because 3.5 doesn't really deal with that DR/+1, +2, or even +3 nonsense. Its usually a DR to a type of damage, DR/Adamantine or DR/magic). The 3.0 vers of haste is turned into the 3.5 vers. Outsider type changes to outsider(native)(even though it says they're a type of native right there in the stat block). The subtype goes from an 'or' to 'both'(now i could be wrong on this subtype). And lastly the LA, the original template and statblock don't mention an LA so its presumed this was a 'DM use only template'. But with the addition of an LA i guess you could use it for PCs, its just kinda absurd and not worth it. One thing i don't see how ever, is this an acquired template or inherited?

[zergling.exe]

Even though im super late here i thought id add my 2 cents here.

I believe Zombimode here is right, the update to template and the example creature are in the same update. Which makes it hard to read. Basically the changes that i can see here are thus: DR 10/+1 goes to DR 10/magic(simply because 3.5 doesn't really deal with that DR/+1, +2, or even +3 nonsense. Its usually a DR to a type of damage, DR/Adamantine or DR/magic). The 3.0 vers of haste is turned into the 3.5 vers. Outsider type changes to outsider(native)(even though it says they're a type of native right there in the stat block). The subtype goes from an 'or' to 'both'(now i could be wrong on this subtype). And lastly the LA, the original template and statblock don't mention an LA so its presumed this was a 'DM use only template'. But with the addition of an LA i guess you could use it for PCs, its just kinda absurd and not worth it. One thing i don't see how ever, is this an acquired template or inherited?

I take it you are new to the forums, welcome! Please make sure you read the rules in their entirety before posting!