How much GP would it take to build up from nothing to a Greyhawk level city?

[RPGaddict28]

When I mean nothing, I literally nothing, just taking unclaimed land, and starting the city.

Also, how much GP would it take to build up a moderately big town into a Greyhawk equivalent

[Kelb_Panthera]

Let's crunch some numbers, eh?

housing:

A finished house of average size costs 1000gp. According to the craft skill, finished products take 1/3 of their finished value in raw materials to make. Therefore each regular house in a given settlement costs about 333gp.

I doubt that more than 4 or 5 adults could comfortably live in an urban home for any length of time, so let's go with 4.5 persons per household in a population of 5000 (the minimum to count as a city).

There will always be some homeless in a city, so let's drop 5% of that 5000, leaving us with homes for 4750 people.

4750 /4.5 = 1055.56 homes, rounded up to 1056.

1056 homes times 333gp equals 351648gp for homes. Let's just round that up to 355k to account for furniture and cuttlery and such.

Support structure:

We're also going to need to feed these people. So we need some farms.

According to some quick internet research the average consumption of wheat is 148 pounds per capita.

Accounting for the average increase of 25% to the population to account for children that's 148 pounds of wheat for each of 6250, totalling 925000 pounds of wheat each year.

The afforementioned research says that average yield is 6820 pounds per hectare from 3000 pounds of seed. A pound of wheat is 1cp.

925000 pounds consumed requires 135.63 hectares of crops requires 406,890 pounds to be planted or 4069gp spent.

Then there's meat. Since it's the most common in the world we'll go with pork.

Similar research shows that consumption is about 10 pounds per capita. An average pig yields 200 pounds of butchered cuts.

For 6250 people that's 62500 pounds of cuts which requires 313 pigs. At 3gp a pig that's 939gp.

other:

According to the dmg there should also be an amount of liquid wealth in the community equal to half its gp limit, 7500 for a city of 5000, times 1/10 of its population, 500, which is 3,750,000gp total. This accounts for things like coin and trade goods and is the core of the economy that makes a city possible.

Total

Totalling these figures we have

355k for housing
5k for food
3750k for liquid wealth

4.11 million gold makes a city.


...... Providing it's a trade city with no fortification.

[Urpriest]

You're forgetting the cost of the people themselves. You need a reason for them to stay there if they didn't want to go there to begin with. The blunt option would be a casting of some sort of mind control for everybody, depending on scenario there may be a cheaper option.

[Adverb]

You're forgetting the cost of the people themselves. You need a reason for them to stay there if they didn't want to go there to begin with.

Free food and housing is pretty compelling for those at the peasanty end of the wage distribution.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, I hope this isn't political, but a lot of cities that have tried to build up 'from scatch' haven't gone so well. You need to give a reason for people to be there. A good place for a city is often at an area where a lot of trade routes meet, and rivers are natural trade routes. A safe harbour with access to inland travel routes is also a natural place for a city. This is why so many cities are near rivers and bays. You also (unless you are going Tippy-verse,) need sources of food, so you need farms and villages outside the city, as close as possible, to provide food. If you are by the sea, fishing fleets can help as well.
Remember, even with a little magical assistance, like druids and certain clerics who are willing to cast plant growth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/plantGrowth.htm) on the fields, you still need a lot of area. (http://www.telkoth.net/blog/?p=155)
EDIT: Iif free food and lodging provides sufficient incentives for people to come to your city, that's a LOT of people, people who used to be working the farms and villages of neighbouring regions. Your neighbours won't be so happy if you keep keep 'stealing' their labour.

[RPGaddict28]

That's a lot of GP, not impossible, as this campaign will go epic levels. Now, what if I had the help of a lot of wizards, clerics, and maybe some druids? What about having undead or constructs to do work to make the place better looking?

And how big of a town would I need to take over to say, bring the GP down to 1 million?

[Urpriest]

That's a lot of GP, not impossible, as this campaign will go epic levels. Now, what if I had the help of a lot of wizards, clerics, and maybe some druids? What about having undead or constructs to do work to make the place better looking?

And how big of a town would I need to take over to say, bring the GP down to 1 million?

One thing to keep in mind, most of that figure is the wealth of the citizens. If you've got immigrants from somewhere bringing their own stable economy, then that can be left out.

I suppose the basic question is, what do you mean by "make a city"? Force a group of people to form a city where none existed before? Provide dwelling places and necessary supplies to a city's worth of people? Build the architecture of a city, without worrying about the people?

[RPGaddict28]

One thing to keep in mind, most of that figure is the wealth of the citizens. If you've got immigrants from somewhere bringing their own stable economy, then that can be left out.

I suppose the basic question is, what do you mean by "make a city"? Force a group of people to form a city where none existed before? Provide dwelling places and necessary supplies to a city's worth of people? Build the architecture of a city, without worrying about the people?

I mean get a large plot of land, and from nothing, make a booming city, make the architecture, have people live there, supply them with shelter and food, until I can get a steady economy there.

[Emperor Tippy]

You can do it a single scroll of Shapechange (costs 3,825 GP).

Shift to Zodar form, Wish up a CL one trillion scroll of Miracle, Shapechange to Lilitu form, Item Use the scroll, replicate Fabricate with the Miracle. Fabricate your city as a standard action.

As it's a scroll there is no material component.

Remember to get Craft (Metalworking) so that your city ends up looking really pretty (you do want it made out of Obdurium, correct?).

Less extreme is getting a Simulacrum of a Beholder (Planar Bind a Mirror Mephit to not have to pay for it) and then getting an auto rest trap of Mage's Lucubration along with a couple of wizards that have Wall of Stone on their spell list. The trap means that they get an effectively unlimited number of castings per day.

Use the Beholder to Disintegrate the ground down to the bedrock (or even lower) and make it all level before using the wizards to build the city.

Use your Mirror Mephits to create Simulacrums of level 18 wizards so that you get 9th level wizards that have access to 5th level spells. You can get a very large, free, disposable workforce that can have the whole city up in a matter of days.

[Naomi Li]

You could look at the city/nationbuilding rules from Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign. Said rules are available on the pathfinder srd, too.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's a lot of GP, not impossible, as this campaign will go epic levels. Now, what if I had the help of a lot of wizards, clerics, and maybe some druids? What about having undead or constructs to do work to make the place better looking?

And how big of a town would I need to take over to say, bring the GP down to 1 million?

If you're just talking food and housing you can remove 3.75 million from my previous figure. Then you're just looking at 360k.

You'll need some reason for people, beyond the supporting farmers, to actually come to and remain in your city. A mine with a huge lode of a precious metal or mineral is good. A large garrison of the nation's military force is another, though that incurs the costs of fortification which, while substantial, but can still come in under a million. A college can be good in a fairly safe region, though this also incurs further costs.

Casters don't really change much unless they're willing to work for free and/or conjure the raw materials. They just make it come together faster.