What was the secret knowledge excluded in Origin of PCs?

[Bedinsis]

If you recall from The Origin of PCs, the Giant mentioned in the intro that when choosing which scenes to portray in the book that in at least one case he chose not to portray a particular scene because that would reveal info that the readers would not want to know beforehand, before it would be relevant in the webcomic. I only wonder, did we ever find out what that info was? I imagine that whatever the Giant wanted to keep hidden beforehand has probably come to pass since it was a long time ago that book was released.

If we haven't, I imagine that the information either concerns Elan or Vaarsuvius. Durkon's, Roy's and Haley's stories felt like real backstories and I have a hard time imagining the Giant portraying other scenes about them that would reveal more about them. And the intro he highlighted why he wasn't interested in making an origin story for Belkar. This leaves out the bard and the wizard, whose scenes could be described as "Elan being Elan" and "Vaarsuvius being Vaarsuvius".

Maybe it only was the fact that Vaarsuvius was married and had children.

[Kish]

When Eugene is explaining the Blood Oath to Roy, there is a "cutaway" in On the Origins of PCs, five minutes in which the reader doesn't see what Eugene is saying...

...unless the reader buys Start of Darkness.

[NerdyKris]

Roy's cutaway where Eugene further describes the circumstances of his blood oath is one.

I'd imagine Elan or V would be the others. Elan may or may not have some major plot relevant situation in his recent past, possibly mentioning Tarquin or Julio, we still don't know. In V's instance, going further back would have likely involved mentioning Kyrie and their children, which were kept secret for most of the strip.

I think Durkon and Haley were fairly established in Origin. I can't think of anything that would have been relevant later.... yet.

[ChristianSt]

I kinda thought several times about starting such a thread, but never remembered long enough of it to actually do it.

I haven't heard a word from the Giant giving information about what was left out - but would really like to know it, too.

Information about V's family imo wouldn't spoil anything.
Quite contrary we even need some information about them, or the Familicide plotline resolving around V's family just is random (and in fact we did get information about them as early as 223 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html)).

It could easily be related to Elan:
Either some more information about Tarquin/Nale through his mother OR there could even be hints about Julio Scoundrél, which I didn't thought would have much to do with the plot before #930, but seems to have a history with Tarquin.

But I wouldn't exclude other characters from the discussion. Adding or removing a certain scene doesn't need to alter a story drastically, maybe it was only 1 or 2 pages. Perhaps it was a hint about Durkon going to become a vampire?

And yeah, I wouldn't even discard the possibility that this event is still in the future - it took over 800 strips to turn Durkon into a Vampire, so the Giant plans a LONG LONG distance into the future.

[Sunken Valley]

There's something hidden (or maybe hidden) for everyone except Belkar.

Roy: Omitted mention of baby brother Eric and Eugene's tale.

Haley: Ian and his raising of Haley is absent.

Elan: There's likely a deeper back story with Tarquin and Elan's Mother to be revealed in the final prequel book.

V: Is married, has kids.

And we know precious little of Durkon's life before his exile.

[Ghost Nappa]

There's something hidden (or maybe hidden) for everyone except Belkar.

In turn, we learn just about nothing on Belkar.

[factotum]

It would help if somebody could remember exactly which strip we were up to when OtOoPCs came out, because presumably whatever was being spoiled may have come up in the main strip since.

[Bedinsis]

It would help if somebody could remember exactly which strip we were up to when OtOoPCs came out, because presumably whatever was being spoiled may have come up in the main strip since.

Looking at the wiki page (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_PCs), Origin was released 5th of November 2008, in the middle of Haley's struggle with her old guild (source:this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97251) was started 16 days later; I'm too lazy to check precisely which one was the most recent).

Odd. I thought Origin was released waaaay before I started reading(September 2007), but if the wiki is true that would be while I already was a fan. Unless the wiki refers to a reprint.

[NerdyKris]

It would help if somebody could remember exactly which strip we were up to when OtOoPCs came out, because presumably whatever was being spoiled may have come up in the main strip since.

It was announced on August 1st, 2005. (http://www.giantitp.com/index7.html) It was released around Oct 24th, 2005.


That coincides with #202 on August 1st-ish (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) according to the comments here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6833&page=14) for August 1st.


Looking at the wiki page (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_PCs), Origin was released 5th of November 2008, in the middle of Haley's struggle with her old guild (source:this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97251) was started 16 days later; I'm too lazy to check precisely which one was the most recent).

Odd. I thought Origin was released waaaay before I started reading(September 2007), but if the wiki is true that would be while I already was a fan. Unless the wiki refers to a reprint.

The Wiki is a terrible source of information.

[Synesthesy]

Uhm.....

First of all, every origin of main charapter has been shown to us, but Belkar. So I think that in the last arc we'll see something about Belkar... Maybe why he's CE ;)
As I think that the last prequel book should be the Linear Guild start, beginning with the story of Tarquin and Elan's mother, Tarquin party, Nale growth, and then Nale's tale.

However, I think that the answer of your question is simple and easy: the one and only thing that the Giant doesn't want us to know is the one wich will make the biggest joke ever: the gender of Vaarsuvius.

[Douglas]

First of all, every origin of main charapter has been shown to us, but Belkar. So I think that in the last arc we'll see something about Belkar... Maybe why he's CE ;)
Belkar's origin has been intentionally left out in order to not risk turning his behavior into something tragic and sad like Redcloak rather than funny and humorous. Explaining why he's like that in any really meaningful way would change that, and that reason will apply even at the very end of the comic.

[snowblizz]

Uhm.....

First of all, every origin of main charapter has been shown to us, but Belkar. So I think that in the last arc we'll see something about Belkar... Maybe why he's CE ;)


No, Belkar won't get anything like that. Giant has said it more or less. Basically any backstory would make Belkar seem less evil and that's not the character's purpose. Giant even had the opportunity as one of the Kickstarter backer's choice stories was a Belkar one and again it did nothing to "explain" Belkar.

Also IIRC one of the secrets was the content of Haley's latter. I seem to recall commentary along those lines. And as mentioned the missing time from Roy's and Eugene's conversation.

[ChristianSt]

Also IIRC one of the secrets was the content of Haley's latter. I seem to recall commentary along those lines. And as mentioned the missing time from Roy's and Eugene's conversation.

There was commentary regarding the letter: it said you shouldn't read it if you don't want to spoil that it was a ransom note for Haley's father.

[Synesthesy]

No, Belkar won't get anything like that. Giant has said it more or less. Basically any backstory would make Belkar seem less evil and that's not the character's purpose. Giant even had the opportunity as one of the Kickstarter backer's choice stories was a Belkar one and again it did nothing to "explain" Belkar.

Also IIRC one of the secrets was the content of Haley's latter. I seem to recall commentary along those lines. And as mentioned the missing time from Roy's and Eugene's conversation.

Well, I don't know. The Giant has written the story of Redcloak AND Xykon, and only the first has become less evil (as the difference between an evil for a good (for our race) and EVil with capital letters); Xykon has been explained but he's still evil as before.

For example if you read "The Alternative Hypothesis" of Schmitt, you can read the personal story of Adolf Hitler, but even if he has been explained he didn't become less Hitler (and that was one of the goal of the book).

I'm almost sure I could write a Belkar story when belkie stays evil. But this is not my story, so it will be what the Giant think is best. I didn't know that he said he won't write Belkar story, I'm a little sad.

[ChristianSt]

Well, I don't know. The Giant has written the story of Redcloak AND Xykon, and only the first has become less evil (as the difference between an evil for a good (for our race) and EVil with capital letters); Xykon has been explained but he's still evil as before.

While it might be possible that the Giant changes his mind on this (I don't think so), I cant imagine he lied on that topic (or any other topic he commented on).

Since I think he planned much of the story before OtOoPCs (certainly he planned the Empire of Blood story-line), I can't imagine that a future story-line of the main comic will feature Belkar's past (or at least that part that makes him Evil).
That is also a part of SoD: We don't know WHY Xykon is Evil. He simple IS Evil from the start of the book. I wouldn't say Xykon has been explained (or at least fully explained): We know how he works as a Lich, but we don't know why he is Evil.

And since it wasn't planned for OtOoPCs anyway, it certainly can't include content not to be spoiled therein, so Belkar should not be relevant for the topic of this thread.

[Sniffnoy]

I suspect it's not Vaarsuvius -- Vaarsuvius seems to have been largely left a deliberate blank like Belkar, if not to the same extent. It's also probably not Durkon; do we really care what Durkon was up to before he got exiled? In all of Durkon's time in the comic, there's been very little focus on his backstory, and it's probably going to stay that way. In general there seems to be a stratification where Roy, Haley, and Elan are the "high backstory" characters and Vaarsuvius, Durkon, and Belkar are the "low backstory" characters, and it seems unlikely it would be one of the latter. (It's certainly not Belkar.)

Of course it's very possible it's something we've already learned, given all the things we've learned since then. But there are some possibilities for things it could be that we don't yet know. It's not clear whether we've ever learned the secret referred to in #309 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) and it seems like we probably haven't. The Giant has also (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12242039&postcount=45) indicated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15364378&postcount=36) that there's more to the backstory of Elan, Nale, Tarquin, and Elan's mother than we currently know, and it could very well be related to that.

It probably doesn't have to do with Ian and Geoff and Ivy, though, because Haley wasn't directly involved in that -- if Bozzok told the truth, she didn't even know where he'd gone until she got the letter from Miron (see #609 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html)). (And even without that, she didn't know why until #770 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0770.html).)

[NerdyKris]

Uhm.....

First of all, every origin of main character has been shown to us, but Belkar.

No, what they were doing immediately before the events of the comic has been shown to us, including Belkar. In some instances, such as Belkar, Elan, and Vaarsuvius, it is literally a few hours (or a day in Elan's case) before Roy recruits them.

:belkar:- Just escaped jail, needed some backup to flee
:vaarsuvius:- Just horribly botched the Iron Wizard competition, was relaxing with wine with his/her good friend Haley. The origin of Haley and V's friendship is still not explained.
:elan:- Stopped by the inn, got his paladin robbed, was wondering town when he ran into Roy and wanted to help.

Only Haley, Roy, and Durkon go further back than "This is why they were in the tavern that day".

:haley:- We're shown what causes her to become an adventurer. (the letter) And her leaving the thieves guild.
:roy:- Pretty much the most in depth, showing his college days, his first adventuring party, how he met Durkon, what caused him to pick up his father's quest, and the founding of the Order.
:durkon:- We see him getting sent on his mission, how people treated him, and his eventual friendship with Roy.


Actually, now that I've written all that out, I think I've spotted two notable exclusions from the book, aside from portions of Eugene's story. Both the trip to the Oracle by Roy and Durkon, and why Vaarsuvius and Haley are friends when they're in the tavern is never shown.

So I now amend my earlier statements to being 100% certain that the plot he's talking about is how Haley and Vaarsuvius met.

[Sir_Leorik]

In turn, we learn just about nothing on Belkar.

We learn everything anyone needs to know about Belkar in those few pages. The rest is merely commentary; go and learn!

[Reddish Mage]

I had the feeling that Haley was just commiserating to Vaarsuvius as strangers at a tavern, rather like Sabine with Vaarsuvius here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html)

[NerdyKris]

I had the feeling that Haley was just commiserating to Vaarsuvius as strangers at a tavern, rather like Sabine with Vaarsuvius here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html)

Possibly, but we see several instances of Haley and Vaarsuvius being very close friends in the online strip.


Haley is the only one who knew Vaarsuvius was married.
Vaarsuvius chooses to room with Haley instead of the others, when a third room could have been requested for privacy.
Vaarsuvius seems to be very interested in prodding Haley into admitting her feelings for Elan.
When the group was separated, Vaarsuvius was mostly focused on retrieving Haley, not Roy's body.
Haley is the only one prodding Vaarsuvius about her newfound powers when Dark V appears.


It seems to imply that there's a connection there, similar to the one shared by Roy and Durkon.

[Draz74]

Yeah, V and Haley were definitely friends before she invited V to join the Order. Probably not a long, complicated history together, but not their first night of drinking at the tavern together either.

I've long thought that the "missing" scene was about Eric's death. It could also be the secret that Haley still hasn't revealed to us ("I'm not really what you'd call a ..."). Or it could be something with V.

I doubt it was the Blood Oath scene from Start of Darkness (which Roy isn't actually in), or anything with Elan.