Helping new player make a warblade.

[killem2]

In a couple of hours I'm going to be helping a newer player. (He's played a couple months with us) make a Warblade.

The handbooks I saw, are both under construction and have helped some.

He will start out as level 8, races can have no LA, (dm says we can start as la 2 for level 6, la 1 as level 7 ect)

He has 27,000 gp to use.


I can help him understand the war blade, but what items specifically should he be looking at?

[Snowbluff]

Item of Str.

Item for flight.

Items that grant special senses.

A magic sword.

Armor.

[Red Fel]

In a couple of hours I'm going to be helping a newer player. (He's played a couple months with us) make a Warblade.

The handbooks I saw, are both under construction and have helped some.

He will start out as level 8, races can have no LA, (dm says we can start as la 2 for level 6, la 1 as level 7 ect)

He has 27,000 gp to use.


I can help him understand the war blade, but what items specifically should he be looking at?

Snowbluff has the general points, but I'd offer something more specific.

First question, though: What kind of Warblade does he want? For instance, if he plans to go the Tiger Claw route, he'll probably want to dual wield. It's messy, but a well-optimized Warblade can pull it off. For anyone else, I would say a big two-handed beatstick, or a spiked chain (with EWP, of course). Keep it simple. No shields, no shields, no shields.

Armor should be light or medium, depending on access to mithral and which skill checks he plans to take.

Everything else is icing. As Snowbluff mentioned, he wants to be able to see his enemies (senses), get to them quickly (flight/mobility), and kill them (weapon) without being killed (armor). He wants things that make him beefier (Str) and that augment his class features (Int). That's pretty much it.

If you want more specific suggestions, I would check out the Lists of Necessary Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) or Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0), either of which offer excellent suggestions.

As an aside, it occurs to me that the Warblade might want to take EWP regardless, since Weapon Aptitude can convert that one feat to cover any single exotic weapon - which is generally quite useful, as they tend to be a bit better than regular ones.

[Lord Haart]

No shields, no shields, no shields.Well, in my experience, sword and board can actually work better than people give it credit. It's just a matter of looking at your shield and seeing an off-hand weapon with benefits (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/agile-shield-fighter--51/). Take your run-off-the-mill two-weapon-fighting build, ditch the dexterity tax (well, additional attacks from Improved/Greater TWF go down the drain, too, but it's not like i've ever played at a level where Greater TWF was possible; in Soviet Russia, best you can hope to start with is sixth level). So mentioning two-weapon fighting as a viable way and immediately telling not to use shields is slightly controversial.

[Flickerdart]

Well, in my experience, sword and board can actually work better than people give it credit. It's just a matter of looking at your shield and seeing an off-hand weapon with benefits (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/agile-shield-fighter--51/). Take your run-off-the-mill two-weapon-fighting build, ditch the dexterity tax. So mentioning two-weapon fighting as a viable way and immediately telling not to use shields is slightly controversial.
Agile Shield Fighter has no Improved or Greater version, meaning that you only ever get the one attack.

[Red Fel]

Besides, this is a newer player. Two-weapon fighting can be complicated to optimize; shield-fighting as an off-hand weapon even moreso.

Keep it simple. No shields, one big two-handed beatstick. It's a good thing.

[Thrawn183]

In my experience Warblades can actually handle sword and board because of the maneuvers that deal damage from concentration rather than using strength. This allows for a dex and AC focused build that's super tanky: HP, AC (including touch) and saves; but can still do enough damage ton contribute.

So yeah... we really need more of a concept about what kind of character your player wants, rather than "just a warblade."

[Xerlith]

Actually, going Dexterity and Constitution focused Warblade... Shield and mithral breastplate... you can dish some serious damage without even taking more than 12 in strength. Just pick Weapon Finesse and use maneuvers with a rapier/short sword + shield.

[killem2]

We went with a Dragonborn, Arctic, Wild, Water Orc :).

I think the stats were

21 Str
24 Con
13 Dex
9 Int
2 Cha
10 Wis


still working on feats but he did pick out a lot of diamond stances/maneuvers

[Kane0]

We went with a Dragonborn, Arctic, Wild, Water Orc :).

I think the stats were

21 Str
24 Con
13 Dex
9 Int
2 Cha
10 Wis


still working on feats but he did pick out a lot of diamond stances/maneuvers

.. why? Human would be much better for a new player. Any standard race even.

Warblade is hard to screw up. Pick the maneuvers you like most, make sure you generally pick the same schools to get higher level stuff, and have at it. Anybody will be just fine with a Warblade beatstick, and the flashiness of the stick matters naught.

[killem2]

Water Orc seems to be highly praised in the handbooks. Not sure what the problem is.

[Kane0]

Water Orc seems to be highly praised in the handbooks. Not sure what the problem is.

Mechanically speaking, there is nothing wrong. The handbook is a 101 for making and to a lesser extent optimising, thus Water orc and the templates are good for the stats.

But imagine a new player playing that. How does one play a wild artic dragonborn water orc? Until a player is comfortable in the game, I wouldn't spring many new/weird things on them. 3e's rules themselves are hard enough.

[Red Fel]

Water Orc seems to be highly praised in the handbooks. Not sure what the problem is.

For one thing, you mentioned this was a newer player. Dragonborn Water Orc etc. is a high level of cheese - as a rule, you want to keep things simple for new players, so they can learn on their own what makes a character great.

As an aside, the Int penalty really hurts Warblade's class features, although admittedly it doesn't hurt Maneuvers that much.

But generally, when a player is starting out, you want to keep it simple. Not because new players are dumb, but rather because you have to walk before you can run. You have to understand BAB and AC and such before you try to tackle the admittedly arcane grappling rules. You have to understand the basics of racial features before you start taking level adjustments and templates. Yes, you've given this player an excellent starting build; does the player know why it's excellent? Or has this player simply learned that a Dragonborn Arctic Wild Water Orc is outrageously awesome and will destroy things? And what happens if the character becomes evil - are you willing, as a DM, to pull that Dragonborn template away (which, you recall, is Good-mandatory)?

All that said? Apart from the Int-hurt, it's a pretty solid build for a melee class in general, and a Warblade in particular. Your player will likely have fun.

[DarkSonic1337]

We went with a Dragonborn, Arctic, Wild, Water Orc :).

I think the stats were

21 Str
24 Con
13 Dex
9 Int
2 Cha
10 Wis


still working on feats but he did pick out a lot of diamond stances/maneuvers

Can Arctic Orc and Water Orc even be combined? They're different races, not templates. Never heard of Wild Orc.

After those adjustments I just gotta say...are you sure you want such extreme stats? Besides the roleplaying implications, hope that you never get hit by Charisma damage. You've got maneuvers and power attack with a two handed weapon for damage, you don't need to go so extreme on your point buy. You actually have to be kind of careful on how much you optimize for damage (see "commentary" on optimize power attack http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026)

[lsfreak]

One other thing to throw out is a DM that's willing to play mean is going to have a field day with a Charisma score of 2. One second-level power has a decent chance of taking him out of the fight completely, and two (or augmenting up to ML7) will do it guaranteed; bestow curse at least requires a touch and a failed save. Ghosts are also pretty much one-hit kills. There's also a fair amount of more obscure stuff that'd take him out in a single hit.

Aside from that, you're taking the difficulty of playing an orc with an affinity for the Plane of Water, native to the arctic, that underwent a ritual to turn into a dragon, and throwing on a lower level of interpersonal skills/self of sense than a human is even capable of having. That's damned hard to roleplay.

[killem2]

Oh, he's fine in that regard. I was worried the TOB setup was going to be confusing but he was throwing down maneuvers and what he wanted the moment I sat down with him.

I think he is embracing it fine :)

[Red Fel]

Oh, he's fine in that regard. I was worried the TOB setup was going to be confusing but he was throwing down maneuvers and what he wanted the moment I sat down with him.

I think he is embracing it fine :)

Then it sounds like everything's going to go swimmingly. My only advice is to max Concentration and keep Diamond Mind saves up at all times - that low Cha is just one botched save away from total helplessness.

[Tevesh]

As soon as he faces any Undead that do ability damage, your friend's character is going to drop like a rock. This is the antithesis of the Warblade. They are the party's tank and the party's DPS. Skip so many templates, get those mental stats (like Charisma up).

If I saw that level of neck bearding, all my Rogues would be able to Maim (Deal 2 Cha damage at the expense of 4d6 Sneak). So, they drop the Warblade round one and can resume stabbing from that point on.

Half-Dragon Half-Orc would be fine.

Edit:
I've just read your signature and now I'm kind of chuckling at what you've done.

Also, how do you roleplay Charisma 2? I've had sessions where a PC was severely hampered because one of their mental stats dropped below 5. Intelligence means they can't remember crap or figure things out, Wisdom means they're unable to tell the difference between enemies and friendlies and Charisma have no desires or personalities.

[Flickerdart]

A CHA 2 creature would barely be able to tell the difference between itself and other things. It's only slightly more assertive than a skeleton or zombie, and has as much personality as monstrous vermin, fish, or reptile. Essentially, this guy is a huge pushover who does what he's told and only deviates from his task to satisfy basic needs.