Getting more Experience?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically, we all know of two basic ways to earn more experience already.

1. Item Familliar: +10% experience earned
2. Lower Level: +10% experience per level below

But are there any other ways to gain more experience?

Note: This is meant to be strictly more experience in regards to leveling up.
If you want to suggest a crafting experience idea then post it in this thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315029) as it more relates to replacing gold costs to make items cheaper.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Basically, we all know of two basic ways to earn more experience already.

1. Item Familliar: +10% experience earned
2. Lower Level: +10% experience per level below

But are there any other ways to gain more experience?

Note: This is meant to be strictly more experience in regards to leveling up.
If you want to suggest a crafting experience idea then post it in this thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315029) as it more relates to replacing gold costs to make items cheaper.
Bribing the DM with cookies

[Particle_Man]

Can a character have more than one Item Familiar at a time, and would the experience bonus from multiple item familiars stack?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Can a character have more than one Item Familiar at a time, and would the experience bonus from multiple item familiars stack?

Maybe?

The feat doesn't mention taking it multiple times though like others do so I assume not.

It's detailed http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm (here) though if you want to check yourself.

[Flickerdart]

Can a character have more than one Item Familiar at a time, and would the experience bonus from multiple item familiars stack?
No - Item Familiar requires a feat, and by default feats don't stack if taken twice unless the feat description specifies that the feat can be taken multiple times (it's a common misconception that you can't take a feat twice; all the rules say on the subject is "If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description").

[Ruethgar]

Take bloodline levels, falls into the category of being a lower level, but still. Also, take mageslayer or sanctum spell and make items to gain experience.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Take bloodline levels, falls into the category of being a lower level, but still. Also, take mageslayer or sanctum spell and make items to gain experience.

How do those work exactly?
I'm not familiar with either of those approaches.

[Curmudgeon]

But are there any other ways to gain more experience?
Sure. Have your character do something awesome. In other words, play the game, not the system.

[Kevingway]

Take bloodline levels, falls into the category of being a lower level, but still.

You'd have lower actual class levels than everyone else, but wouldn't your ECL be the same and ultimately negate any chance of gaining extra experience through this method?

[Ruethgar]

You'd have lower actual class levels than everyone else, but wouldn't your ECL be the same and ultimately negate any chance of gaining extra experience through this method?

It is the other way around, you have more class levels but fewer character levels which is what exp calculation cares about.

The mageslayer and sanctum spells are to lower your caster level or spell level into the negatives. So when you create an item that is CasterLevel*SpellLevel*X for the price, you have to subtract a negative from your total gold and subtract the typical fraction of that gold from your experience. Double negative of course equal a positive.

Apart from fireball for a wizard, minimum caster level is never specifically stated, so at whatever level your class is giving access to the spell, however many caster levels you have at that time would be the minimum. So a level 6 mageslaying stalwart battle sorcerer would have level 0 spells at caster level -3, level 1 at caster level -3, level 2 at caster level 0, and level 3 at caster level 2.

[Vertharrad]

It is the other way around, you have more class levels but fewer character levels which is what exp calculation cares about.

The mageslayer and sanctum spells are to lower your caster level or spell level into the negatives. So when you create an item that is CasterLevel*SpellLevel*X for the price, you have to subtract a negative from your total gold and subtract the typical fraction of that gold from your experience. Double negative of course equal a positive.

Apart from fireball for a wizard, minimum caster level is never specifically stated, so at whatever level your class is giving access to the spell, however many caster levels you have at that time would be the minimum. So a level 6 mageslaying stalwart battle sorcerer would have level 0 spells at caster level -3, level 1 at caster level -3, level 2 at caster level 0, and level 3 at caster level 2.

Wrong you gain xp dependent on your ECL. Bloodline levels wont help.

[TuggyNE]

Wrong you gain xp dependent on your ECL. Bloodline levels wont help.

Bloodline levels are weird. They don't increase character level, and as far as I know ECL is never said to include them. Instead they seem to be a single XP cost at each given point that acts a little like a level, but without affecting future XP. Think of it like LA buyoff, but in reverse, and written more confusingly.

[Hamste]

For the negative caster level approach what magic items are you using? From what I have seen most if not all wondrous items have a cl associated with them (under the item entry itself) and spell completion items require a minimum caster level equal to the level you can gain that spell at.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm

source, it is under caster level.

Is there another magic item that they accidentally missed a minimum caster level or is there another interpretation to these rules

[Brookshw]

Sure. Have your character do something awesome. In other words, play the game, not the system.

/hugs

Thank you.

[Segev]

Sure. Have your character do something awesome. In other words, play the game, not the system.

Perhaps I make too many assumptions, but when a player comes to ask how to achieve more XP mechanically, I assume that, for whatever reason, bonus XP awards for RP are off the table. Perhaps his DM always awards flat XP for each session, or rewards XP strictly divided according to the laid-down rules based on the CR of encounters beaten (and nothing else). Perhaps it's a thought exercise (we DO do a lot of theorycraft here, after all) and assuming the DM will give XP because you twirled your sword in an awesome way rather than just rolling a d20 isn't helpful to the puzzle.

Perhaps I am assuming too much, of course, but I do find that leaping to the opposite conclusion on equal evidence is just as large an assumption, and replies treating the OP as some sort of bad person for "doing it wrong" are a bit...crass.

[Kevingway]

Bloodline levels are weird. They don't increase character level, and as far as I know ECL is never said to include them. Instead they seem to be a single XP cost at each given point that acts a little like a level, but without affecting future XP. Think of it like LA buyoff, but in reverse, and written more confusingly.

The quote doesn't necessarily say that they do not increase your character level; it simply says that it doesn't increase it the way that normal levels do.


Class levels of “bloodline” do not increase a character’s character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

We know that Bloodlines do have some abstract way of increasing your character level for level-dependent benefits, i.e., Initiator level and EBL; these benefits also stack per class, so every class level you take gains an effective +3 ECL for those kinds of effects.

I'm just not convinced that these levels would permit you to gain more experience than your party. I'd actually argue the opposite.

[Curmudgeon]

Perhaps I make too many assumptions, but when a player comes to ask how to achieve more XP mechanically, I assume that, for whatever reason, bonus XP awards for RP are off the table.
My comment wasn't directed strictly at role-play. If other party members need downtime (spellcasters, for instance, need 9 hours every day) and you don't you might have a solo encounter. Defeating a level-appropriate challenge without any spellcasting backup could well land you in the "awesome" category.

If you can think up some extremely clever solution to a problem (not the usual combat/spell approaches) that could be awesome, too. Some examples dealing with Vampires:

Add cement and water to its grave soil, making the Vampire's return there extremely difficult.
Buy up every property (including streets) around the Vampire's abode, and build/remodel that into a continous private residence enclosing gardens. (A Vampire is utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so.) You'll want to get the eminent domain seizure and construction across the (formerly private) drive done in sneaky daytime operations.
When you've got the Vampire's residence surrounded, make a moat there. Use a Decanter of Endless Water (on "geyser" setting) to fill that moat with a constant loop of running water, dumping into an overflow spillway after making a full circuit. (Vampires are unable to cross running water.)

[TuggyNE]

The quote doesn't necessarily say that they do not increase your character level; it simply says that it doesn't increase it the way that normal levels do.

Sure, but in the absence of some reason to suppose it increases ECL, it would seem it does not. Specifically, it does say they don't increase character level, and it doesn't say they increase effective character level, so because most things that do not increase character level also do not increase effective character level, the default assumption would be that it does not.


We know that Bloodlines do have some abstract way of increasing your character level for level-dependent benefits, i.e., Initiator level and EBL

Actually, we do not and they don't. They increase effective class level for various things, including caster level (but not spellcaster level), but they explicitly do not increase character level, per se, for any purpose. Even in the case of maximum skill ranks it counts as an additional class level with no class skills or skill points, but not, per se, as an additional character level.

All that said, bloodlines are not written clearly enough to be very useful for unambiguously gaining extra XP.

[shaikujin]

Regarding Item Familiar,

What if
1) Using the symbiotic template, both guest and host gets the item familiar feat? Both use it on a tooth of Dev Nar (sp?). Would the combined creature benefit from both Item familiars?

2) Using simulacrum, have my simulacrum get an item familair, then pass it to me?

3) Have 10 follower/minions take the feat, will the item faimiliar to me as True Inheritance, then I take the item familiar feat to get the effects of all 10 item familiar at once?

Of course, losing them would suck big time.

[Rubik]

Find a way to access both Fusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fusion.htm) and Astral Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralSeed.htm), either from your own powers known, from power stones, from the effects of a couple of manifestations of Soul Crystal (a psionic power from Magic of Incarnum), or some other means.

Find a creature with a higher HD total than you've got. Convince it to help you, either through diplomacy, Diplomacy, blackmail, mind-controlling effects, a Summoning or Calling spell, the Ice Assassin spell, or something else.

Manifest Fusion on yourself and the creature, followed immediately by Astral Seed (or Metamorphosis/Polymorph followed by Astral Seed, if you want to come back as something specific). Then off yourself.

When you come back, you'll have the HD total of the creature you Fusioned with.

You can also combine this trick with the bard's Inspire Greatness ability, which will grant you +2 HD.

Alternatively, Metamorphosis or Polymorph into a barghest. Use the Metamorphic Transfer or Assume Supernatural Ability feat to use the barghest's Feed ability.

Once you've done one or the other (or both), feel free to either retrain or use a thought bottle + permanent negative levels to turn those extra HD into actual levels.

[TuggyNE]

Both use it on a tooth of Dev Nar (sp?)

Dalver Nar, I believe.

[Gwazi Magnum]

My comment wasn't directed strictly at role-play. If other party members need downtime (spellcasters, for instance, need 9 hours every day) and you don't you might have a solo encounter. Defeating a level-appropriate challenge without any spellcasting backup could well land you in the "awesome" category.

If you can think up some extremely clever solution to a problem (not the usual combat/spell approaches) that could be awesome, too. Some examples dealing with Vampires:

Add cement and water to its grave soil, making the Vampire's return there extremely difficult.
Buy up every property (including streets) around the Vampire's abode, and build/remodel that into a continous private residence enclosing gardens. (A Vampire is utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so.) You'll want to get the eminent domain seizure and construction across the (formerly private) drive done in sneaky daytime operations.
When you've got the Vampire's residence surrounded, make a moat there. Use a Decanter of Endless Water (on "geyser" setting) to fill that moat with a constant loop of running water, dumping into an overflow spillway after making a full circuit. (Vampires are unable to cross running water.)


I like the solo idea a lot :)
Now I just need a way to not need sleep sleep :P
(Warforged Technically works, but I wonder if there's other ways)

As for creative ideas, very true.
Though sadly being creative isn't something learned from looking up D&D for long enough. :(


Regarding Item Familiar,

What if
1) Using the symbiotic template, both guest and host gets the item familiar feat? Both use it on a tooth of Dev Nar (sp?). Would the combined creature benefit from both Item familiars?

2) Using simulacrum, have my simulacrum get an item familair, then pass it to me?

3) Have 10 follower/minions take the feat, will the item faimiliar to me as True Inheritance, then I take the item familiar feat to get the effects of all 10 item familiar at once?

Of course, losing them would suck big time.

1) How does the tooth of Dahlver-Nar work?

2) Not sure how that works. They're the ones with bonus experience, not you.

3) Wouldn't that fall under not stacking the same feat?


Find a way to access both Fusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fusion.htm) and Astral Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralSeed.htm), either from your own powers known, from power stones, from the effects of a couple of manifestations of Soul Crystal (a psionic power from Magic of Incarnum), or some other means.

Find a creature with a higher HD total than you've got. Convince it to help you, either through diplomacy, Diplomacy, blackmail, mind-controlling effects, a Summoning or Calling spell, the Ice Assassin spell, or something else.

Manifest Fusion on yourself and the creature, followed immediately by Astral Seed (or Metamorphosis/Polymorph followed by Astral Seed, if you want to come back as something specific). Then off yourself.

When you come back, you'll have the HD total of the creature you Fusioned with.

You can also combine this trick with the bard's Inspire Greatness ability, which will grant you +2 HD.

Alternatively, Metamorphosis or Polymorph into a barghest. Use the Metamorphic Transfer or Assume Supernatural Ability feat to use the barghest's Feed ability.

Once you've done one or the other (or both), feel free to either retrain or use a thought bottle + permanent negative levels to turn those extra HD into actual levels.

So it's not really leveling up or gaining experience.

Just killing yourself and changing your HD to be the same amount as another creatures?
Interesting idea theory wise. But I still like the idea of gaining exp and leveling up over time, I just have fun making it faster if possible, especially since once you're past level 20 you hit epic levels.

[Rubik]

So it's not really leveling up or gaining experience.

Just killing yourself and changing your HD to be the same amount as another creatures?
Interesting idea theory wise. But I still like the idea of gaining exp and leveling up over time, I just have fun making it faster if possible, especially since once you're past level 20 you hit epic levels.It's definitely leveling up, just not in the "normal" way.

You could also gain enough levels in the ghost savage progression (using LA buyoff to pay for each level of LA as you get it, so you never go above one; you can buy them all off by 4th level) and take the Malevolence ability so you can possess other creatures. Take one with more HD than you. You get to keep the body's hp score, and it counts for its actual HD for all effects. It's not exactly the same thing as leveling the "normal" way either, but it's still fun.

[shaikujin]

Dalver Nar, I believe.

That's that one!

[shaikujin]

1) How does the tooth of Dahlver-Nar work?

2) Not sure how that works. They're the ones with bonus experience, not you.

3) Wouldn't that fall under not stacking the same feat?



1) It's just a slotless item that you implant in your mouth. It replaces one of your own tooth. It's a method someone posted to prevent losing it (and hence the XP) from being stolen, or from being removed when captured.

Actually, I was thinking of owning multiple item familiars for item abuse rather than the bonus XP.

But for XP purposes, I was thinking along these lines:

The feat grants you a supernatural ability - ie the bond with the item which can be suppressed in AMF.

So the bond is an Su ability.

The host gains the special qualities (Ex, SLA, Su etc) of the guest.

The Su bond grants the "Invest Life Energy" power with the Item Familiar.



2) The simulacrums and minions are basically the same ideas. I don't take the Item Familiar feat yet. Wait for my minions etc to willingly pass on their item familiars to me ala "True Inheritance".

Then I take the feat "once" (so no feat stacking) and get the abilities of all the multiple Item Familiars at once.



Not sure if either works though. Just throwing out ideas.

[shaikujin]

Btw, I know you said crafting related XP should go to the other thread, but after looking at the other thread, I think this thread is more relevant for what I am going to suggest.


Use a single Thought Bottle to have unlimited XP for crafting purpose.

Eg, if you are level 8 and have earned 35,999 (1 xp away from level 9):

1) Spend 500 xp to activate the thought bottle and store 35,499 xp.

2) Spend xp to craft items or cast spells etc or do LA buyoff etc until you are left with 28,000 xp (min xp for level 8).

3) Use the thought bottle to recover your memories etc and bring you back to 35,499 xp. This in no way removes the memories from the thought bottle.

4) Repeat steps 2 - 3 until it's time to adventure again.


Never worry about burning xp on crafting and being too much behind other party members again.

[Zombulian]

Taking a Bloodline level is like instantly buying off an LA. You spend xp to get it, but you character effective level doesn't change. Thus putting you behind in ECL so you eventually catch up with your party members.

[Morithias]

The Worm of Minaous or whatever in the FC2, gives you a 20% xp boost so long as you stay in Baator.

[Rubik]

The Worm of Minaous or whatever in the FC2, gives you a 20% xp boost so long as you stay in Baator.Which means that if you're a planar shepherd with planar bubble, or you have access to an acorn of far travel from Baator, you're good.