Warforged + Shrink Item + Permanency = Toy Soldiers?

[Shrikethrush]

So, the Eberron Campaign setting says:

"Warforged can be enchanted just as armor can be.
The character must be present for the entire time it
takes to enchant him."

Last I checked, armor was a valid target for Shrink Item, and Shrink Item + Permanency would be enchanting that armor.

Since Warforged can be enchanted just as armor can be, they can be enchanted with Shrink Item.

So, now there can be going to be toy-soldier warforged, right?

Unless there is a definition for what exactly 'enchanting' entails, I believe this is a valid reading, even though Warforged are not objects and so could be targeted by the spell, they're treated as being nonmagical armor for the purposes of enchantment, armor is an object, therefore there are treated as a valid target specifically for the purpose of imbuing a permanent effect, or something.

. . . I suppose what I'm really asking is, what does it mean to 'enchant' armor? I can't find a definition.

[Emperor Tippy]

Enchanting is a rules defined term.

Although you can do this anyways.

Step 1: Kill the creature.
Step 2: Cast Shrink Item on the body (it's a non magical object and thus a valid target).
Step 3: Resurrect the creature using a method that doesn't create a new body.
Step 4: Laugh as you can now shrink your minion and turn it to cloth when you desire with a single word.

The part where it gets real tricky is casting it on yourself (the easiest way to do that is with the Clone spell).

[Red Bear]

Since Warforged can be enchanted just as armor can be, they can be enchanted with Shrink Item.


I don't know if this sentence can be considered correct, it's sounds a bit like Worms are animals , Socrates is an animal, therefore Socrates is a worm. Anyway it would be supercool to have iphone tall soldiers! I would probably house rule some stats changes similarly to the reduce person spell something like reduced speed, strength, increased dexterity etc.

[TheIronGolem]

Shrink Item targets an object. A Warforged counts as a creature, not as an object. I'm pretty sure that even an actual golem would not be a valid target for Shrink Item.

"Enchanted", in the context of your quoted passage, pretty obviously means "granted magical weapon/armor abilities". It serves as a very narrow exception to the general rule to enable a warforged to get its composite plating enhanced, but doesn't suggest that the warforged actually counts as an object in any sense.

But the good news is that you could use Reduce Person instead of Shrink Item. That would give you the same effect, and with a lower XP cost and minimum caster level for the Permanency to boot.

[Shrikethrush]

Enchanting is a rules defined term.

Although you can do this anyways.

Step 1: Kill the creature.
Step 2: Cast Shrink Item on the body (it's a non magical object and thus a valid target).
Step 3: Resurrect the creature using a method that doesn't create a new body.
Step 4: Laugh as you can now shrink your minion and turn it to cloth when you desire with a single word.

The part where it gets real tricky is casting it on yourself (the easiest way to do that is with the Clone spell).

"Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two types of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature."

The only enchantment definition I can find is in reference to enchantment spells, which isn't relevant. Can you tell me where to find the proper definition?



I don't know if this sentence can be considered correct, it's sounds a bit like Worms are animals , Socrates is an animal, therefore Socrates is a worm. Anyway it would be supercool to have iphone tall soldiers! I would probably house rule some stats changes similarly to the reduce person spell something like reduced speed, strength, increased dexterity etc.

"Socrates can can be enlarged just a worm can be. A worm can be enlarged by Enlarge Monster. Therefore, Socrates can be affected by Enlarge Monster." is a more accurate summary, but yeah.

A much more cost effective way of making toy soldiers would be to make a few fully articulated Warforged action-figures, they use Animate Objects and make it permanent.

Come to think of it, you could make full-sized warforged, then before giving them life, shrink them, permanency, then give them life.

Wait. Animate Objects specifies Small objects.

Make a few suits of Large full plate. Shrink them. Animate these now-quite-small objects. Permanency. Unshrink them.

You now have an army of Large phantom armors. You could probably make Huge ones, actually.


Shrink Item targets an object. A Warforged counts as a creature, not as an object. I'm pretty sure that even an actual golem would not be a valid target for Shrink Item.

"Enchanted", in the context of your quoted passage, pretty obviously means "granted magical weapon/armor abilities". It serves as a very narrow exception to the general rule to enable a warforged to get its composite plating enhanced, but doesn't suggest that the warforged actually counts as an object in any sense.

But the good news is that you could use Reduce Person instead of Shrink Item. That would give you the same effect, and with a lower XP cost and minimum caster level for the Permanency to boot.

Okay, that makes more sense. However, Reduce Person won't get me down to Fine, which is what I'm going for here.

The best I could do is start with a Warforged Scout -> Reduce Person to Tiny.

I want Toyforged.

[Emperor Tippy]

"Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two types of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature."

The only enchantment definition I can find is in reference to enchantment spells, which isn't relevant. Can you tell me where to find the proper definition?


Yeah, it's enhancement.

[cakellene]

Shrink Item targets an object. A Warforged counts as a creature, not as an object. I'm pretty sure that even an actual golem would not be a valid target for Shrink Item.

"Enchanted", in the context of your quoted passage, pretty obviously means "granted magical weapon/armor abilities". It serves as a very narrow exception to the general rule to enable a warforged to get its composite plating enhanced, but doesn't suggest that the warforged actually counts as an object in any sense.

But the good news is that you could use Reduce Person instead of Shrink Item. That would give you the same effect, and with a lower XP cost and minimum caster level for the Permanency to boot.

Except a living construct is not a valid target for reduce person, right?

[Chronos]

Not unless you cast Humanoid Essence on them first. The psionic power Compression doesn't care about creature type, though, and can potentially take you down two size categories (the downside is that it's personal-only).

[Ravens_cry]

Not unless you cast Humanoid Essence on them first. The psionic power Compression doesn't care about creature type, though, and can potentially take you down two size categories (the downside is that it's personal-only).
Is there a psionic equivalent to scrolls?

[Jack_Simth]

Is there a psionic equivalent to scrolls?

But of course (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/powerStones.htm)

[Shrikethrush]

Compression can't be made Permanent with Incarnate., so it won't help with creating Toyforged.

Using Shrink Item prior to them being brought to life seems to be the most valid way to get Toyforged.

[unseenmage]

Compression can't be made Permanent with Incarnate., so it won't help with creating Toyforged.

Using Shrink Item prior to them being brought to life seems to be the most valid way to get Toyforged.

There's a line that gets repeated some in the Eberron books about how not all Warforged were created equal, strange prototypes abound. There's another line referring to the Mournlands about how creatures there get twisted and warped into new and strange unbelievable forms.

With those in mind I don't think I mind Toyforged. So far I'm liking the Shrink Item on the body before construction is complete or Shrink item on the corpse then re-animate ideas the best.

Alternatively, Toyforged Undead: Shrink Item on the bodies then reanimate them as Skeletons or Zombies.

[Chronos]

Assuming that it's possible to get at the soon-to-be-warforged during the process of creation, at least. As I understand it, the creation forges are artifacts, and I don't know if the relevant processes occur in an accessible space within the artifact.

[Chronos]

Wait a minute, I just found the killer flaw here: Shrink Item only works on nonmagical items.

:smallfrown:

[unseenmage]

Wait a minute, I just found the killer flaw here: Shrink Item only works on nonmagical items.

:smallfrown:

Oooo. That could definitely suck. Especially with the 'Constructs are Magic Items' rules interpretation.

[Emperor Tippy]

Wait a minute, I just found the killer flaw here: Shrink Item only works on nonmagical items.

:smallfrown:

That's why you need the target dead first.

The way to apply it to regular old magical items is to first hit the item with Dispel Magic. That makes the item non magical for 1d4 rounds and thus a valid target for Shrink Item.