Kobold/Dragon Handbook?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Is there one?

I've been looking but I can't find one. :/

[JaronK]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303204

That's for non Kobolds though.

For Kobolds, just throw Venerable Dragnonwrought Kobold, maybe with Unseelie Fey or Dragonborn, into the mix. Don't forget Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and maybe even Sovereign Archetypes, and then go nuts.

For insane levels of cheese, use early entry into Dragonblood Sorcerer 7 or Dragonblood Cleric 9, but that's insane cheese levels... seriously. Insane.

Also Wings of Flurry is nice.

JaronK

[Akadzjian]

Yes. It's called "Races of Dragon". Very decent book. Just don't claim to be paying a kobold of you're using dragonwrought. Very cool though.

[Gwazi Magnum]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303204

That's for non Kobolds though.

For Kobolds, just throw Venerable Dragnonwrought Kobold, maybe with Unseelie Fey or Dragonborn, into the mix. Don't forget Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and maybe even Sovereign Archetypes, and then go nuts.

For insane levels of cheese, use early entry into Dragonblood Sorcerer 7 or Dragonblood Cleric 9, but that's insane cheese levels... seriously. Insane.

Also Wings of Flurry is nice.

JaronK

Sweet, thanks! :)

Though what's so cheesy about Dragonblood Sorcerer?
Is it just entering early, or is there something else about it that I'm missing?


Yes. It's called "Races of Dragon". Very decent book. Just don't claim to be paying a kobold of you're using dragonwrought. Very cool though.

Why not? :P

[Deophaun]

Though what's so cheesy about Dragonblood Sorcerer?
Is it just entering early, or is there something else about it that I'm missing?

It's entering it early. Like level 1 early.

Due to bad wording, dragons automatically qualify for anything that has "dragonblood" as a prerequisite. Note that it doesn't simply say the dragon type meets the dragonblood requirement. That wording wouldn't have had unintended consequences. Instead, by RAW, having the dragon type means that you can ignore every prerequisite a PrC or feat has as long as "dragonblood" shows up in the requirements.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Alright... That's just insane. :/

[JaronK]

Technically, you can do it at level 2, not one... you need to be Dragonwrought first.

But yeah, you can be a third level character with Fighter 1/Dragonblood Sorcerer 7/Dragonblood Cleric 9. Because you have only one level of each class, you cast as a Sorcerer 1 and Cleric 1. However, your BAB and Saves are much higher.

JaronK

[Gwazi Magnum]

Technically, you can do it at level 2, not one... you need to be Dragonwrought first.

But yeah, you can be a third level character with Fighter 1/Dragonblood Sorcerer 7/Dragonblood Cleric 9. Because you have only one level of each class, you cast as a Sorcerer 1 and Cleric 1. However, your BAB and Saves are much higher.

JaronK

Eh. If you're going spell caster stuff like BAB isn't that powerful though.

[Vaz]

They can be required for PrC's however though.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I figure I should ask here, since the handbook seems to avoid Kobolds.

What are some good strategies/tricks you can do with Kobold?

So far I know of the following:

-With 2 feats (combined with Chaos Shuffle) you're effective sorcerer level is +3
-With an archetype your sorcerer levels act like Wizard Levels.
-No age penalties so +3 INT, WIS and CHA
-Can take Epic Feats even if not Level 21

So basically. I'm 3 levels of wizard ahead, with extra ability scores and can take Epic Feats I meet all requirements outside of Level 21 for.

Is there anything else that works really well with a Dragonwrought Kobold?

Also, wouldn't all of those tricks I listed above also work with a Dragonborn? All it really needs is the dragonblood type right?

[Gwazi Magnum]

They can be required for PrC's however though.

Good point.

[tyckspoon]

Is there anything else that works really well with a Dragonwrought Kobold?

Also, wouldn't all of those tricks I listed above also work with a Dragonborn? All it really needs is the dragonblood type right?

No, pretty much all of the useful tricks require being of the actual Dragon type (note, not a True Dragon - the only one that actually hinges on that is the Sovereign Archetypes, so for most of what you listed the 'is a Dragonwrought Kobold a True Dragon' controversy is completely irrelevant.)

[Gwazi Magnum]

No, pretty much all of the useful tricks require being of the actual Dragon type (note, not a True Dragon - the only one that actually hinges on that is the Sovereign Archetypes, so for most of what you listed the 'is a Dragonwrought Kobold a True Dragon' controversy is completely irrelevant.)

Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race.

It states that Dragonborns count as Dragons.
So I'm not sure what the issue is.

[Deophaun]

It states that Dragonborns count as Dragons.
So I'm not sure what the issue is.
Only for effects, not for meeting requirements.

So if the dragonborn was hit by a dragonbane weapon, he would be subject to the extra 2d6 damage. But he still couldn't take Rapidstrike.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Only for effects, not for meeting requirements.

So if the dragonborn was hit by a dragonbane weapon, he would be subject to the extra 2d6 damage. But he still couldn't take Rapidstrike.

Ah I see. That makes sense now.
Thanks. :)

[123456789blaaa]

Only for effects, not for meeting requirements.

So if the dragonborn was hit by a dragonbane weapon, he would be subject to the extra 2d6 damage. But he still couldn't take Rapidstrike.

"Effect" is a very broad word though:


a change which is a result or consequence of an action or other cause

It could be argued that taking Weapon Focus or whatever instead of Rapidstrike is a consequence caused by not meeting the requirements of Rapidstrike.

I'm not endorsing this interpretation, just pointing it out. It is entirely possible that I'm missing something obvious or that this post doesn't make sense. Even if you find what I posted to be utterly nonsensical, please don't bite my head off.

[WhamBamSam]

No, pretty much all of the useful tricks require being of the actual Dragon type (note, not a True Dragon - the only one that actually hinges on that is the Sovereign Archetypes, so for most of what you listed the 'is a Dragonwrought Kobold a True Dragon' controversy is completely irrelevant.)If Dragon Magazine is allowed there are also Dragon Psychoses, which require that you be a True Dragon. Riddled and Spellhoarding are both crazy powerful.

It's considerably less powerful than spellcasting, but being a True Dragon would also mean that a DWK could become a Xorvintaal Dragon. It would be the only way for a PC to get the template pre-epic as it requires Young Adult age.


I figure I should ask here, since the handbook seems to avoid Kobolds.I only left kobolds out because they're a pretty ubiquitous cheese, and don't really need the full rigors of handbook treatment to be workable. Hell, DWK is a very good race even with just the 1 feat for +3 to all mental stats tradeoff and Greater Draconic Rite. A lot of the things in the guide do apply to kobolds as well, even though they aren't the focus.


-With an archetype your sorcerer levels act like Wizard Levels.I believe you're referring to the Spellhoarding Dragon Psychosis, rather than any of the Sovereign Archetypes. Note that it is Dragon Magazine material, and will be banned at many tables. However, it not being a Sovereign Archetype means you can use it in conjunction with Loredrake. So do all the Loredrake/Greater Draconic Rite shenanigans, then go mad with the power of Spellhoarding and be the most powerful kobold (or anything else really) this side of Pun-Pun.


-Can take Epic Feats even if not Level 21A lot of them have prereqs that you can't meet, but 30HP to keep you alive at low levels through Epic Toughness is handy if you can get away with it.

I also like using DWK cheese to pump up significantly less powerful builds.

[Ragnorrok]

look up Pun Pun