The best part of this subplot ending

[spambi]

The best part will be when Tarquin finds out he's a sub-boss. More than anything else I'm looking forward to the look on his face when he's forced to admit that he's not as important to the story as Xykon. :xykon:

Tarquin has been a fun meta-character, he's spent so much time pontificating about story structure and glorifying his own limited role that being put in his place structurally will be the perfect comeuppance.

[The Pilgrim]

And master of dramatics Julio Scoundrel seems to be just the right tool for the job.

[Gift Jeraff]

And then the OOTS learn that they are minor characters in Julio's story.

[Ted The Bug]

And then the color scheme changes!

As much as the art this arc has been the best so far, it's time for some new shades!

[The Oni]

And then Julio finds out he's a heroic Author Avatar of The Giant, and refusing to further represent him at the expense of his own identity, commits postmodern seppuku.

The end.

[Vinsfeld]

And then Julio finds out he's a heroic Author Avatar of The Giant, and refusing to further represent him at the expense of his own identity, commits postmodern seppuku.

The end.

The Giant will not be pleased that you found out how the story is going to end.

[Perseus]

The Giant will not be pleased that you found out how the story is going to end.

Well unless LS is actually a second account that the giant has made so he can freely give out the truth and doesn't have to keep the secret any longer!

[Bird]

And then the OOTS learn that they are minor characters in Julio's story.
Hmmm. Now that would be the justifiable consequence of the current chain of ideas. Easy enough for the reader to get on board with Tarquin being a sub-boss -- maybe even for Julio to show up and help save the day -- but the move you outline would really test the limits of the narrative convention.

Not that I exactly want to see it, and I realize it's not a serious possibility, mind, but -- it would be a brave and internally consistent direction for the story.

[Bulldog Psion]

As I speculated in the main thread, maybe the Order is evolving into enablers who move the NPC heavy hitters into the right place at the right time, rather than the actual heavy hitters who take down the villains. As such, perhaps they will unleash Aarindarius on Xykon at the end, after all.

[Mike Havran]

Hmmm. Now that would be the justifiable consequence of the current chain of ideas. Easy enough for the reader to get on board with Tarquin being a sub-boss -- maybe even for Julio to show up and help save the day -- but the move you outline would really test the limits of the narrative convention.

Not that I exactly want to see it, and I realize it's not a serious possibility, mind, but -- it would be a brave and internally consistent direction for the story.
And then we learn that Julio himself is a minor sub-hero of a greater story that we know nothing about yet :smalltongue:

[Forikroder]

The best part will be when Tarquin finds out he's a sub-boss. More than anything else I'm looking forward to the look on his face when he's forced to admit that he's not as important to the story as Xykon. :xykon:

Tarquin has been a fun meta-character, he's spent so much time pontificating about story structure and glorifying his own limited role that being put in his place structurally will be the perfect comeuppance.

thats impossible unless you kill him at which point hell be too busy being dead

[Origomar]

As I speculated in the main thread, maybe the Order is evolving into enablers who move the NPC heavy hitters into the right place at the right time, rather than the actual heavy hitters who take down the villains. As such, perhaps they will unleash Aarindarius on Xykon at the end, after all.


i doubt it. its their story, not anyone elses.

It doesn't matter if they are technically a ton weaker than xykon and friends, thats the reason theres a story and its not them teleporting into xykons layer and killing him in a few rounds.

Unless its a sort of "gathering the masses to defeat a great evil" kind of thing i doubt itl happen and even then a lot more emphasis will be placed on what the order does and not what another character is doing, even if that character is again technically a lot strong than the order.

[Bird]

i doubt it. its their story, not anyone elses.

It doesn't matter if they are technically a ton weaker than xykon and friends, thats the reason theres a story and its not them teleporting into xykons layer and killing him in a few rounds.

Unless its a sort of "gathering the masses to defeat a great evil" kind of thing i doubt itl happen and even then a lot more emphasis will be placed on what the order does and not what another character is doing, even if that character is again technically a lot strong than the order.
Yeah, I tend to agree with this. Xykon doesn't have the whole "you must obey narrative conventions" thing going on. There wouldn't be any irony to Xykon getting smacked by Aarindarius in the way that there is for Julio smacking Tarquin. While Tarquin is royally cheesed off by Julio messing up his little story, Xykon couldn't care less whether his antagonist is Blueblade or some random elf wizard. So: the story may as well show the actual protagonists, not Aarindarius, in the protagonist role.

[Souhiro]

Well, Julio is almost a Deus Ex Machina. But a darn well pulled one.

I mean: Outgunned, OutHP-ed, OutSpelled, OutLevelled... And also, they have to get into Kragoor/Serini's Gate before Xykon and his goblin slaves win the race.

Even if they could put their hands into a Death Note and kill Tarquin and Laurie instantly, they still need to go to the polar cap. An while Winter Walk is a posibility... damn, the mechanus is insanely cool!

Even if Julio Scoundrel die here (And if he has to die, I would be sattisfied if his dead isn't the most kickass, most awesome moment in the history of comics) he has a quartermaster, maybe somebody else trained in the ways of the dashing heroes (Perhaps a "Cunning Comander" or "Witty Quartermaster", or "Good Vizier" prestige class from the same book) somebody that trains the group, that tells them "You're good, but you have to fight a god killer, and some god-slavers. You cannot be only good, you have to be the best. Now, let's train"

Then Julio or the quartermaster pulls a book. It is written in vivid colors, it's cover is rough, and it contents pulse with promises of untold power, unending adventures, and endless courage. They look the cover of the book. It reads just one word: PATHFINDER

[Werbaer]

The best part will be when Tarquin finds out he's a sub-boss. More than anything else I'm looking forward to the look on his face when he's forced to admit that he's not as important to the story as Xykon. :xykon:
Why should he think he's the sub-boss? Well, in most story of legends, the heroes fight the main boss at the end; but this would only show that Elan did it wrong, by fighting the minor villan last. Althought that's not unheard of - remember Lord of the Rings?

[Trillium]

thats impossible unless you kill him at which point hell be too busy being dead

We'll still be able to feast our eyes on Tarquin's futile rage in Lee's inbox :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

This is what I'd like to see.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6719/scoundrel.png: "You guys take the ship and get on with the real story. I'll take care of the distracting minor villain!"

[Turgon9357]

This is what I'd like to see.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6719/scoundrel.png: "You guys take the ship and get on with the real story. I'll take care of the distracting minor villain!"

I would be satisfied with this.

[NerdyKris]

This is what I'd like to see.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6719/scoundrel.png: "You guys take the ship and get on with the real story. I'll take care of the distracting minor villain!"

That would actually be hilarious and poetic.

Although I'd prefer a bit more of Julio and some finality to Tarquin's plotline. But that would be perfect.

[nospacebar14]

Even killing Tarquin doesn't really beat him. He'd be okay with that; didn't he say as much in the palace?

What would beat him would be to prove that he's been wrong about the plot. And that, I think, will be done after he mortally wounds Julio, and Captain Scoundrel in his dying breath reveals that he's Elan's real father.

And that Tarquin has just killed his only offspring.

[Mike Havran]

Even killing Tarquin doesn't really beat him. He'd be okay with that; didn't he say as much in the palace?

What would beat him would be to prove that he's been wrong about the plot. And that, I think, will be done after he mortally wounds Julio, and Captain Scoundrel in his dying breath reveals that he's Elan's real father.

And that Tarquin has just killed his only offspring.I know it's a world full of magic but I don't think Tarquin would buy that exactly one boy out of the twins was his.

[The Pilgrim]

Even killing Tarquin doesn't really beat him. He'd be okay with that; didn't he say as much in the palace?

He is okay with that as long as he leaves a legacy in the form of a legendary tale.

Not so much going down as one of The Adventures of Julio Soundrèl's villiains-of-the-week.

[Xelbiuj]

I really look forward to a less self-aware arc.

I'm pretty tired of the whole omniscience through understanding narrative structure and trope-whoring.

[spambi]

And master of dramatics Julio Scoundrel seems to be just the right tool for the job.

Good point, Pilgrim. Having his nemesis Julio prove himself as the true master of narrative convention will be the icing on the cake of Tarquin's defeat.



This is what I'd like to see.

"You guys take the ship and get on with the real story. I'll take care of the distracting minor villain!"

Yeah, having one of the character's mention resuming the "main quest" as Tarquin bleeds out would be one way to drive the point home. Another way is to have Elan :elan: behave in an obviously subordinate way to Roy. :roy:

If Roy is the leader, then Elan is a follower, and Elan's personal nemesis can never be more than a sub-boss.

My bet is that we'll get some of each. Elan will recommit to Roy's leadership, destroying Tarquin's dreams for his son. Elan will chose Julio over Tarquin, leaving him with no legacy. And finally, it will be made clear that Tarquin was never anything more than a speedbump on the road to Xykon.

"Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair."
Nothing beside remains.

[Jay R]

Even killing Tarquin doesn't really beat him. He'd be okay with that; didn't he say as much in the palace?

Not really. He said he'd be okay with the fact that if he loses, he gets to be a legend. But that only applies to a climactic battle to defeat the evil empire.

Dying in an anti-climactic fight that has nothing to do with his empire, off alone in the desert, by a group of heroes to whom he is just a distraction, is a very different thing.

[spambi]

Maybe to really rub it in, OOTS won't even bother to kill Tarquin. The heroes be in such a hurry to get to Xykon that they'll let Tarquin escape, only to be captured by the slavers.

[GreyHound]

The slavers are more recent characters than Julio, so this doesn't seem unlikely at all.

It would also be an appropriate form of poetic justice for Tarquin. :smallamused:

[The Pilgrim]

Good point, Pilgrim. Having his nemesis Julio prove himself as the true master of narrative convention will be the icing on the cake of Tarquin's defeat.

Tarquin complained about lack of "Unity of Theme" and "disjointed anarchy". Elan taunted Julio with defying "stories themselves" and Julio is bragging about breaking traditions.

So looks like this has become a clash about the bare principles of dramatics.

Are dramatic conventions a straight-jacket you must corset-lace your story to (like renaissance classicists and age of enligthnment neoclassicism preached and Tarquin seems to follow) or are they just tools to help you develope your story (like baroque theater and renaissance authors believed, and both Elan and Julio seem to champion)?