Does a negative energy version of Lesser Vigor exist?

[Totema]

I'm running a solo game where my player is playing as an immensely powerful lich necromancer, leading an army of the undead against the living world. (Yes, it's cheesy like that on purpose.) He asked if there was a way to reliably keep his undead well-healed, and although I pointed out a multitude of ways to use negative energy to his advantage (he seemed satisfied with Negative Energy Aura), I began wondering: is there any way to replicate the classic combo of the cleric using Persistent Spell + Mass Lesser Vigor when no one involved can channel or even use positive energy? To my knowledge no spell exists - am I wrong? Or if I'm right, would a balanced houseruled spell be appropriate?

[TuggyNE]

What kind of balance are you looking for? There are no other players to overshadow or inadvertently squish when adjusting power to compensate, so almost any conceivable ability can be allowed for just by cranking up the enemy's capabilities/numbers/resources to match.

[Tevesh]

Atropal Scion from Libris Mortis projects a Desecration Aura that gives enemies -2 Negative Levels and provides Fast Healing 5 to Undead in that 60' Aura.

[Totema]

I guess by "balanced" I really meant "something that wouldn't be out of place in an ordinary game". Since, after all, the whole idea of real balance got thrown out the window a long time ago in this game.

Ye gods, that Atropal Scion looks awful! It reminds me of the Nihilanth from Half-Life... But regardless that looks like an interesting way around the issue. I'm still curious about a spell effect though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You do realize that vigor and company work the same on undead as they do the living? Undead not only can have fast healing, many of them have it naturally.

[Gadora]

You do realize that vigor and company work the same on undead as they do the living? Undead not only can have fast healing, many of them have it naturally.

Even setting this aside and assuming you want to rule that it hurts undead since it's positive energy... Why not pull out the rules for researching an original spell?

[Malak'ai]

You could also just change it's name to something like "Dark Vigor" and say it uses Neg. Energy instead of Positive.

[TuggyNE]

You do realize that vigor and company work the same on undead as they do the living? Undead not only can have fast healing, many of them have it naturally.

But don't the spells have Target: One living creature etc?

[KillianHawkeye]

But don't the spells have Target: One living creature etc?

Yes. Fast Healing as a special ability works just as well on undead as anything else, but the Vigor series of spells cannot be cast upon them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Huh, hadn't noticed that. I don't see a lot of undead PC's.

I don't recall the name of it but I'm reasonably certain there's a spell that makes undead count as living creatures for its duration (can somebody help me out here.) Just have the lich cast that right before the persistent vigor spell. Bam, vigor on an undead.

[Jeff the Green]

Huh, hadn't noticed that. I don't see a lot of undead PC's.

I don't recall the name of it but I'm reasonably certain there's a spell that makes undead count as living creatures for its duration (can somebody help me out here.) Just have the lich cast that right before the persistent vigor spell. Bam, vigor on an undead.

You might be thinking of spark of lifeLM, though it doesn't do that. It just strips them of most of their immunities, makes negative and positive energy hurt them, and gives them a bonus to their Fortitude saves equal to their Charisma modifier.

[Segev]

It's not quite as good as Lesser Vigor, but a Dread Necromancer's charnal touch that he gets at level 1 heals undead for 1 hp per use, standard action each use.

Otherwise...yeah, I think you're stuck in "original spell research" territory. Balance-wise, the easiest thing to do would be to make it a Necromancy spell, put it on appropriate Arcane lists (and maybe Divine, but definitely not Druid), and change its targeting clause to "one undead creature." Otherwise crib Lesser Vigor entirely, since fast healing can apply to undead just fine.

[killem2]

I think Power Word Pain is the closest you'll find for something like that.

[NotScaryBats]

Lesser Vigor has Target: One Living Creature, but Mass Lesser Vigor has no such stipulations. Check it out in the Spell Compendium.

[Zombulian]

Mass lesser vigor would definitely work. Though creating some atropals and having 1 per squad of undead would be pretty cool.

[Big Fau]

It's not quite as good as Lesser Vigor, but a Dread Necromancer's charnal touch that he gets at level 1 heals undead for 1 hp per use, standard action each use.

Otherwise...yeah, I think you're stuck in "original spell research" territory. Balance-wise, the easiest thing to do would be to make it a Necromancy spell, put it on appropriate Arcane lists (and maybe Divine, but definitely not Druid), and change its targeting clause to "one undead creature." Otherwise crib Lesser Vigor entirely, since fast healing can apply to undead just fine.

Nitpick: Charnel Touch is 1d8+1/4 levels, not just a flat 1.

[Radar]

There is also a neat and simple trick to make your cannonfodder troops last longer and be more effective: make them explode with negative energy when destroyed thanks to Destructive Retribution. If you combine it with Fell Animate, you might even come ahead on each massive battle.

Makes for a decent in-combat healing.

[Deox]

There is also a neat and simple trick to make your cannonfodder troops last longer and be more effective: make them explode with negative energy when destroyed thanks to Destructive Retribution. If you combine it with Fell Animate, you might even come ahead on each massive battle.

Makes for a decent in-combat healing.

I was thinking along the same lines, using Lord of the Uttercold on top.

[Cog]

Nitpick: Charnel Touch is 1d8+1/4 levels, not just a flat 1.
Nitnitpickpick: not when used to heal undead.

[Psyren]

I would think an "immensely powerful lich necromancer" could research a 1st-level spell. It would be a lot easier than contorting something.