Falling into an occupied space

[Zombimode]

In yesterday's session, a situation occurred that I don't know how to resolve by RAW. And thinking of it, it is a situation that could come up quite often.

It is falling (or otherwise being moved) into a cube that is already occupied by another creature.

Our situation yesterday was rather specific: A trapdoor in the ceiling was opened. A zombie fall out right into one of the characters, that is right into his square.

But similar situations could arise without such specific circumstances, for instance Updrafting/Abrupt Jaunting into the air in an unoccupied cube, but than falling down into an occupied cube.

The question is: what happens?

[killem2]

Special Movement Rules
These rules cover special movement situations.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm

[Segev]

There are actually rules for sharing space with an opponent. They're utilized in grappling rules.

[Lightlawbliss]

How my groups tend to handle it:

the falling creature is a falling object (same as a falling rock of the same weight)

the creature dropping also takes falling damage if applicable

falling creature attempts a bull rush

if bull rush fails, roll for ending square.

[Zombimode]

Special Movement Rules
These rules cover special movement situations.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm

Yes, I know those rules. But if you would consider the situations I have in mind, you would see that those rules aren't really applicable. The last legal position was the cube directly above the occupied cube. A falling creature surely doesn't move into this cube again.



There are actually rules for sharing space with an opponent. They're utilized in grappling rules.

Hm, one could argue that just sharing an opponents space doesn't mean you're grappling, but then again in many situation that just could be the consequence. I'll think about it.


How my groups tend to handle it:

the falling creature is a falling object (same as a falling rock of the same weight)

the creature dropping also takes falling damage if applicable

falling creature attempts a bull rush

if bull rush fails, roll for ending square.

Sure, for an actually falling creature this seems sensible. But how about a creature that is floating down thanks to Feather Fall or Undraft?

[aeauseth]

I have house rules for these situations. Sharing spaces happens more often than you would think.

The rules do state that you can't end your turn sharing an occupied space. But there are times (your falling example) where this can't be avoided. When that occurs I rule the falling creature becomes prone in the occupied square, and then force him to move to the nearest unoccupied square, provoking AAO's along the way. I also take this movement off of his next round's movement.

Similar situation when a player is invisible/hiding, and a huge giant tries to stand in his square. I allow the player to move out of the giant's way (taking movement from his next round), to avoid the giant from noticing that he just about stepped on the player.

[Lightlawbliss]

Sure, for an actually falling creature this seems sensible. But how about a creature that is floating down thanks to Feather Fall or Undraft?

FF: you are said to fall at a speed equal to a few foot drop.

never heard of "undraft"

[lytokk]

I'd treat it as a falling object, like a large rock. The creature on the ground gets a reflex save to jump into an adjacent, unoccupied square. Failure means a strength check (but still taking damage) in order to stay standing. Failure means you're pinned underneath the falling creature.

I don't think there's any rules exactly to support my ruling thoughts, but the zombie falling makes me think of a trap, and traps get saves. Falling object traps get reflex saves.

[aeauseth]

I'd treat it as a falling object, like a large rock. The creature on the ground gets a reflex save to jump into an adjacent, unoccupied square. Failure means a strength check (but still taking damage) in order to stay standing. Failure means you're pinned underneath the falling creature.

I don't think there's any rules exactly to support my ruling thoughts, but the zombie falling makes me think of a trap, and traps get saves. Falling object traps get reflex saves.

For your falling Zombie trap, I'd make the Zombie use an attack action (Overrun, Bullrush, Trip, or Grapple rule). Otherwise the Zombie was just moving into an occupied square, triggering an Attack of Opportunity. From there the rules are unclear, thus the various house rules mentioned.

[holywhippet]

You could have the PC end up prone on that square with the zombie on it's feat. Might want to allow some kind of saving throw to let the PC counter this. Like a strength check to force the zombie to a different square or a reflex save for the player to dodge to a different square.

[Garagos]

Cant' two creatures share the same square if they're both willing to "Squeeze" and both take all the penalties associated with Squeezing? I know that doesn't really apply in the OP's situation, but it might for someone else. I know my group has allowed this before in our games, and thought that is how its supposed to be handled RAW.